Sonata Arctica thread

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

You still haven't heard anything else? Like at least fire up a concert or something! Or listen to Silence, it's basically Ecliptica but done by a band that actually knows what they're doing 

I'm joking a little bit. I've heard a few songs from other albums that I like, but any time I fire up a full album it fails to catch my interest. I guess I should give them another try at some point.

[The Walrus]

I don't listen to the first two albums much these days, because I think Winterheart's Guild was where Sonata finally broke into their own truly unique sound, but my absolute favorite part of Ecliptica and Silence is the synth and keyboard parts. Those are brilliant; I cut my teeth on learning and practicing those solos all day and night as a teenager. Only one I think I can still play right now off the top of my head is Full Moon and maybe San Sebastian. Mikko really left his mark on those records. Full gamut of sounds and just the perfect amount of shimmer and warmth in the voice choices. (Also very noticeable on WG songs like Victoria's Secret)

[Lethean]

But I suppose Takatalvi would be more appropriate right now given the weather.

I missed this nerdy joke  Here we're having proper spring, so the most appropriate album is... no Sonata albums!

I'll gladly listen to Sonata inappropriately if it means warmer weather.

[MoraWintersoul]

Mikko really left his mark on those records.

*Record, Tony played the entirety of Ecliptica all by himself 

I like the shimmery sounds but I also have a lot of love for Henkka's Hammond addiction.

[The Walrus]

I always forget that Tony did all the keyboards on Ecliptica. On the new albums he's been stepping on Henrik's toes by getting back into the keyboard playing 

[MoraWintersoul]

I think he did that for pretty much all of the albums, or at least everything from WHG onwards. Because he records the keyboards for the demos, if something sounds good on them, Henkka will not bother with re-recording that part exactly. The way it's split goes like this: solos are all Henkka, if something demands subtlety, it's Henkka, and if it's a real-life keyboard it's Henkka, Tony is more of a software guy. The two of them always joke that together they make one good keyboard player 

I always forget Henkka didn't do anything for WHG because he joined too late to record the album. Every time I listen to The Cage I'm like "damn dude you were on fire with this opening solo", and then I remember it's because it's Jens Johansson

[The Walrus]

And then you watch Henrik try to play it live this past decade and he either can't or just doesn't give enough of a shit to try. It's totally not his style 

That little bit of magic Jens brings to Winterheart's Guild is actually a massive part of why I love that album so much. He's only on 4 tracks but man does he make his presence known. Best synth lead tone ever.

[wolfking]

I always forget Henkka didn't do anything for WHG because he joined too late to record the album. Every time I listen to The Cage I'm like "damn dude you were on fire with this opening solo", and then I remember it's because it's Jens Johansson

I guess I knew going in, but it's easy IMO to tell it's Jens.  Such a distinct, recognizable tone.

[?]

Side note, just went through the thread to see if I whined about SGHN on DTF too (of course I did) and I found this moment:

Well, you can't really call Shitload of Money one of the highlights of the new album! The new album has some great stuff like Somewhere Close to You and Wildfires II and III but it can't beat Unia.

Hi. You're my friend now whether you like it or not.

Truly the start of a wonderful friendship 

Yes indeed!

After seeing all the "play this at 1.25" YT comments, I tried listening to Talviyö at that speed for fun earlier this year, and it actually made it sound less lethargic and helped Demon's Cage click with me. It makes me think they should've had an actual outside producer (I don't really count Tegelman as one, because as their sound guy he tours with them and is part of the SA family already) who - besides getting the sound right - would've told them to speed things up a bit, like Jens Bogren did with Amorphis for Under the Red Cloud. I can only speak as an amateur musician here, but a couple of times I've written a bunch of songs and haven't noticed until later that the tempos are kind of samey, because in the moment they feel perfect and you don't really question them. I guess when you're working on a dozen or so songs and for a longer period of time, it may be even harder to be objective in that regard.

I think he did that for pretty much all of the albums, or at least everything from WHG onwards.

Yeah, if you listen to the 2008 remakes of Letter to Dana and Wolf & Raven that Tony did all by himself, the synth string sounds in particular are familiar from the regular albums. I don't have the source to back this up, but I remember a WHG-era intie where Tony downplayed the impact of Mikko's departure by saying that he only played the leads, the grand piano and (I think?) the shreddy harpsichord stuff on Silence. Also if you look at the credits for Dream Thieves and The Gun, which were recorded while Mikko was still in the band, the keys are all Tony except for the solo in The Gun.

[MoraWintersoul]

And then you watch Henrik try to play it live this past decade and he either can't or just doesn't give enough of a shit to try. It's totally not his style 

See, it's such an iconic and perfect solo that just changing one note makes it worse, but playing it perfectly every night wouldn't be possible or it would be boring  I can't remember the last time I heard it sound actually bad though, their styles are different but I know for a fact that he has major respect for Jens. Jens and Kevin Moore invented the metal solo keyboard!

So same keyboard recording dynamics for Silence then, that's something I always wondered about but we have few English inties from that era.

It makes me think they should've had an actual outside producer (I don't really count Tegelman as one, because as their sound guy he tours with them and is part of the SA family already) who - besides getting the sound right - would've told them to speed things up a bit, like Jens Bogren did with Amorphis for Under the Red Cloud. I can only speak as an amateur musician here, but a couple of times I've written a bunch of songs and haven't noticed until later that the tempos are kind of samey, because in the moment they feel perfect and you don't really question them. I guess when you're working on a dozen or so songs and for a longer period of time, it may be even harder to be objective in that regard.

The reason why the Amo connection popped into my head is that they have the same problem Amo had with The Beginning of Times, where you can pick out the tracks you like but never listen to the album itself. SGHN had major cohesion problems, but I guess that's a part of its charm for people who do like it. Then Pariah's Child is kinda their TBOT, everyone rates it as a 6 or a 7. But they never fixed the problem like Amo did. The Ninth Hour came together to be an fairly mellow album (which I liked) and now Talviyo is slow to the point of being dull. This surprises me, because Unia and The Days Of Grays are two of the most cohesive album experiences I know. Don't know what happened there.

They're probably considering going one step further so I'd say the odds are about 50/50 that next time they'll have an outside producer. Don't know who though.

[?]

They're probably considering going one step further so I'd say the odds are about 50/50 that next time they'll have an outside producer. Don't know who though.

Fingers crossed! Even just getting Karmila back behind the mixing board would do wonders, though of course it wouldn't solve the songwriting problem (if you want to call it that).

Oh, and forgot to mention this re: keyboards, but at least on my copy of Successor the credits list the arrangers for the songs too, and for Shy it says Kakko/Liimatainen, so it's Tony playing all the keys on that one too.

[SleeperAwake]

I like "Don't Be Mean".

Carry on. 

[MoraWintersoul]

I like "Don't Be Mean".

Carry on. 

Omg we found one! 

Even just getting Karmila back behind the mixing board would do wonders, though of course it wouldn't solve the songwriting problem (if you want to call it that).

Calling it that would be technically correct but album-putting-togethering would be more correct! We know Tony fucks around with the songwriting to the point where he will write two completely different versions of the same song at once just to see how that goes, and then we know the guys shoot down or ask him to re-do those demos all the time, and that they will pull songs they like from his other ongoing projects all the time (R.I.P. Tony's solo album that we've heard like six songs from already), and that those have to be re-done. So on the song level, they work a lot. But then whatever album those songs make is the album, when someone should be going through the first version of the album with fresh ears to see how it all works together. Most bands allow themselves time to take a break from working on the album and come back to it later, or they have that person helping them out, they kind of just do neither. They work all the time and they do everything themselves (much like Dream Theater since Train of Thought, whose approach I also vaguely dislike). That will hamper your ability to be objective over time.

[ErHaO]

Don't be Mean has it's qualities, but the lyrics are just come off as... childish? Not sure how to describe it  Still, Tony sings it well and I don't mind the music itself. But I agree Tonight I Dance Alone is vastly superior and they should've switched it. And the other bonus song One-Two-Three-Fall should've been on the album too.

And yes, I have said it before but they need to keep Pasi away from the mixing board, their sound production is their number one problem right now in my opinion. The last album is probably the worst offender in having a completely bland demo-ish production.

[MoraWintersoul]

And the other bonus song One-Two-Three-Fall should've been on the album too.

A really cool interviewer brought this song up a few months ago and Tony shared an anecdote about it that I think about every time I listen to the intro and it cracks me up (timestamp vidya here).

[?]

This inspired me to listen to One-Two-Free-Fall again, and for the first time I noticed the little "yeah" at 3:44

[The Walrus]

Since we're talking about them, what is everyone's favorite bonus track from Sonata Arctica? For me, it's In The Dark - no contest. Actually, it's among my most favorite SA songs.

[Evermind]

Since we're talking about them, what is everyone's favorite bonus track from Sonata Arctica? For me, it's In The Dark - no contest. Actually, it's among my most favorite SA songs.

Probably agree with you on this, either that or Tonight I Dance Alone is what I would pick. With all my complaints about SA setlists, I've got to see In the Dark live! That was awesome.

[ErHaO]

Yes, In the Dark for me as well. And seeing it live was both surprising and great.

And the other bonus song One-Two-Three-Fall should've been on the album too.

A really cool interviewer brought this song up a few months ago and Tony shared an anecdote about it that I think about every time I listen to the intro and it cracks me up (timestamp vidya here).

Heh, the first sounds indeed to sound like Children of Bodom.

[The Walrus]

You guys got to see it live?! I didn't even know they ever played it live. I am so jealous. When I saw them right after Days of Grays released, too, my girlfriend at the time got a setlist when the show ended and they crossed off No Dream Can Heal A Broken Heart and Deathaura (absolutely GUTTED by not seeing those songs; the band started late and I don't know if this is true at all or what, but after 2 songs Tony said they started late because he had to take a big shit so they cut one of the songs which appeared to be NDCHABH  )

[Evermind]

You guys got to see it live?! I didn't even know they ever played it live. I am so jealous. When I saw them right after Days of Grays released, too, my girlfriend at the time got a setlist when the show ended and they crossed off No Dream Can Heal A Broken Heart and Deathaura (absolutely GUTTED by not seeing those songs; the band started late and I don't know if this is true at all or what, but after 2 songs Tony said they started late because he had to take a big shit so they cut one of the songs which appeared to be NDCHABH  )

I missed The Days of Grays tour, was 17 and the venue had a 18+ policy. I wasn't sure I would be admitted so I skipped it. Would've been my first metal show otherwise.

I think In the Dark was in the European Pariah's Child tour setlist, however it also was rotated with Sing in Silence. I was lucky to get this setlist which is still my favourite setlist from their gigs I attended.

[The Walrus]

Oh dude, you got X Marks the Spot  wow. I saw them twice in 2016; in March we got What Did You Do In The War, Dad? and White Pearl Black Oceans - and in October there was Abandoned, Pleased, Brainwashed, Exploited which made me all kinds of excited 

[Evermind]

Oh dude, you got X Marks the Spot  wow. I saw them twice in 2016; in March we got What Did You Do In The War, Dad? and White Pearl Black Oceans - and in October there was Abandoned, Pleased, Brainwashed, Exploited which made me all kinds of excited 

I'd gladly trade X Marks the Spot for WPBO or APBE, two of my favourite SA songs.

[MirrorMask]

Since we're talking about them, what is everyone's favorite bonus track from Sonata Arctica? For me, it's In The Dark - no contest. Actually, it's among my most favorite SA songs.

In the Dark, They Follow and especially Shy.

[The Walrus]

Shy 

Oh yeah, The Rest of the Sun Belongs to Me is right behind ITD for me. No surprise... it's a Winterheart's Guild track 

[MoraWintersoul]

Literally no contest between In The Dark and all the other songs. Definitely envying all of you who got to see it live, it's a great spot for just some great vocals and subtle playing. Sometimes I wish they played it on the TDOG tour instead of As If The World Wasn't Ending, but that one was great to see too, it has one of my favorite keyboard solos of all time, and there's nothing I like more than big keyboard solos in places where you would expect a big guitar solo. Potent display of BDE right there 

I have to give some love to To Create A Warlike Feel too  that was a great fucking song.

Katt, you don't have to be sad, there's a video or two floating around of them trying out both of those songs, and the guest vocal spots are prominent enough that neither of them really works.

[The Walrus]

Katt, you don't have to be sad, there's a video or two floating around of them trying out both of those songs, and the guest vocal spots are prominent enough that neither of them really works.

EDIT: I initially thought you were referring to X Marks the Spot and In The Dark; not NDCHABH and Deathaura

They should totally bring it (IDT) back live  It would fit with what Tony said some years back about not playing super loud heavy metal when he's 60. It's got juuuust enough edge to bring some oomph to the live set, but is gentle enough to weave between most of their catalog.

I'm listening to it now for the first time in some time, and man, when that first chorus kicks in - gorgeous. This whole song just has a very peculiar, cool, beautiful vibe to it. It's different from just about everything else in their catalog. Every single time, it reminds me of the day that I heard it for the first time, late September 2009. Overcast day, not quite rainy, and strangely cold for summer. Had it playing on my iPod. Takes me back to that exact same vibe every time. And the a capella finish is beautiful.

[Lethean]

Just chiming in to second Kat on In the Dark.  That song is beautiful.

[MoraWintersoul]

I'm listening to it now for the first time in some time, and man, when that first chorus kicks in - gorgeous. This whole song just has a very peculiar, cool, beautiful vibe to it. It's different from just about everything else in their catalog. Every single time, it reminds me of the day that I heard it for the first time, late September 2009. Overcast day, not quite rainy, and strangely cold for summer. Had it playing on my iPod. Takes me back to that exact same vibe every time. And the a capella finish is beautiful.

I love these one-off songs in their discog. The Worlds Forgotten..., In The Dark, On The Faultline, and others. Every time they do something that's completely unique I love it.

Have a lot of memories from every album cycle, because I listen to each album with my sister as it comes out (maybe Talviyo is cursed because by that time I moved so we couldn't do that  ). By the time we got to In The Dark I was moved beyond words, couldn't believe they'd do something so delicate. A real butterfly song, and very sensual, which worked pretty well on me  it's a sort of a young love song, and my first serious boyfriend loved Sonata too, so we played the hell out of that one on dates.

[The Walrus]

^^ I had a bootleg copy of TDOG before the official release. About a week before that I went to an Edguy show in Illinois and went on their forum the next day and met someone who was at that show. Turns out she loved Sonata too so I took her to the SA show which was conveniently a few days after Edguy. Played the album on the way to the show, bought her the actual album at the show, would later date for a couple years. Good times. Thanks Tony

[MoraWintersoul]

Lol Tony is my ultimate wingman too. My husband never listened to anything beyond Ecliptica so he doesn't even know how many lines I used on him 

[ErHaO]

Sonata Arctica will perform their Acoustic Adventures concert via stream later this month.


https://www.semilive.fi/product/gigs-and-concerts/sonata-arctica-live-stream/
Or
https://www.semilive.fi/product/gigs-and-concerts/sonata-arctica-live-stream-2/

Tickets are 8.5 euro's. Will probably give it a watch. Tony these days seems to sing lower/less rocky, but his voice does sound pleasant in that range/style (proshot Tallulah from a tv show last year, when they did the acoustic tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EjdK8udBmk).

[MoraWintersoul]

I'll be watching both, they haven't done any press in English about this yet so I google translated one Finnish article where Henkka said they're preparing two slightly different setlists. They're probably not changing more than a song or two, but I'd still like to see it 

Tony's sounded not normal to me for a little while (since 2019), like it's not just how he sounds when he's dragging a cold or when he's tired, and it's not age lowering of his range or anything because that would be pretty sudden. I managed to find some sets on the recent tours where he sounds normal (whether normal-good or normal-tired), and during the rest he sounded like something was off. Hoping it was just overtouring fatigue and that he's back to normal, because during many 2016 and 2017 sets I checked out, he sounded pretty much better than ever, and that's a very high ceiling. He also said those were pretty difficult tours, I can imagine, the setlists were pretty demanding.

[MoraWintersoul]

Stream in 3 1/2 hours!

I thought they would pre-record the first show (like Amorphis is doing with both shows on semilive) so that they don't have to stay up all night playing on American time but the crazy bastards are actually starting at 3AM so we could see the sun rise behind them in the venue windows. Don't know what to say, I love them so much.

[ErHaO]

Will probably watch tomorrow. Not sure what to expect, but I will support all my favourite bands during this crisis. And I would've liked to see the acoustic tour last year, I enjoyed some of the yt vids I saw.