Coronavirus Thread v.2

[wolfking]

I took a home test and it came back positive. Yay me...

That sucks.  I hope you feel better soon. 

Also, another person I know from Progpower on facebook posted they are positive just today.

Mike's "obsessive" testing is showing to have been the prudent thing to do in such a situation of known covid spread and contact.

I fully take on board the nature of the word 'obsessive' and how I used and referred to it.  I used it as a general term in relation to my views on the entire subject, not essentially as targeting a specific case, even if it came across like that.

[Ben_Jamin]

If I go from Covid, then so be it. This world sucks anyways and it's going to hell anyways.

As cynical as I am at the moment, I'm on board with this.  And yes, peoples underlying issues surely have a factor on how they handle COVID.

Maybe it's my struggles at the moment, but from what I've seen coming back from the dead just about, there's no need to be afraid of dying, there's a possibility whatever comes afterwards is better than where we are now anyway.

I agree man. And I contribute my POV of death to how much death I have seen from many different reasons. I know Death is a part of life and there is nothing we can do about it. It's nature that things will wilt and die. We can try all we can to prevent it, but nature laughs. For myself, all I can do is just live life the best that I can and hope for a better future for the upcoming generations.

We prevent it each day by our actions when we go about our life, but yeah, we just have to live the best we can but when our time is essentially up, there's nothing we can do about it.

And there is a plethora of ways we all could go. The thing is we don't know how we will go. And with this current lifestyle and habits we are living, there are more ways we can possibly die.

This isn't directed at anyone specifically, just something that has evolved over the last 2.5 years in society.  What does it matter what other people do when it quite literally has ZERO impact on you (royal)?  That's one of the big things that this fucking pandemic has done to society I believe - so much questioning/challenging other peoples choices, actions, behaviours.  TBH, it's my (and a lot of other people) belief that not worrying until you start to feel sick is very much NOT sensible (generally speaking).  Case in point - my situation.  If I did nothing until I was symptomatic, then I am 100% certain that the jingle.family would have caught it.  And we all know this virus hits everyone differently, from asymptomatic, to sniffles, to a case of a bad flu, to hospitalization, to death.  Jingle.son had asthma as a child, so for me (and many others), it would be far from sensible to just wait to see symptoms before taking action.

But in the end, you do you (I type that with no sarcasm at all).  Genuinely, everyone can do what works for them, and I ain't gonna be bothered if it has no impact on me or my wellbeing in any way.  I did me (for my situation, I didn't see a need to test until I was symptomatic).  Mike can do Mike - if wants to test daily, who fucking cares and it shouldn't it matter or bother or make anyone wonder anything/

Chad, I love you man, I really do, but this is aimed at me and Tim.

I'll just put out there that I really actually don't give a shit what others do.  After my year, lol, trust me, there's very little in life I give a fuck about right now.  At the end of the day, when everything is said and done, nothing matters.  I've seen that.  My view on reality has altered so people taking tests has less than zero impact on me.

I come from a very different perspective with the whole COVID thing and I was mainly just super curious on the whole over obsession with testing, especially when one isn't sick at all.  Look, I'm not vaccinated at all.  I'm not anti whatsoever, more power to people and each to their own but I just choose not to, I've never been a big jabber.  I've been heavily judged for my take but that's water off a ducks back, couldn't give two fucks.  I even fought my work and won when they tried to mandate it.  So, yes, my perception on everything is different to most, and luckily I've had flus worse than COVID so that ramps up my curiosity even more.  I'm not trying to trivialize it because I know for some it's serious.

Look, I just feel people obsess their lives these days worrying about it.  You know, you could walk outside and be dead before you know it.  Life is short and could be gone in a second, trust me I know!  So, it's fascinating to me when people obsess and monopolize their time over it but again, each to their own.

But from someone who has cheated death, stop worrying about COVID and if you MIGHT catch it or be exposed to it.  Once you catch it, you get over it and move on.  My thinking is, fate plays a part, those that have died with COVID, their time was up, simple as that.  The rest of us that get over it in a couple of days, it's not a big issue, life goes on.  This isn't directed at you Chad just some thinking from my perspective at the moment, but seriously, when we say 'stop worrying,' it means just that, cause life can end before your eyes without you even knowing.

Just gonna throw two things out there, that might or might not mean anything to you. One is that "obsessing" might not be the best way to describe an abundance of caution. The precautions we each choose to make cover a massive range, from complete disregard to fairly stringent measures. Describing any of them beyond a certain point as "obsessive" is an unnecessarily judgemental way to put it. I'm not calling you out. I seriously doubt you were trying to be judgemental. I'm must pointing out that others might reasonably take it that way. Just one of those things that people may not think about.

The other is that your stark "well, your time's up, mate" is missing a different point. I don't really disagree with the sentiment, but I think it's missing an important detail. I'm not afraid of being dead. Far from it. Covid is one of the most godawful ways to go out I can think of, though. We're talking very bottom of the list. Car crash and struck by lightning are blessings compared to them. I don't take precautions because I'm afraid of dying. I'm not. I take precautions because I'm afraid of dying after two weeks being unable to breathe. Again, just something to think about.

This entirely depends on your own health. It's why everyone should have went to see their doctors to assess where their health lies and how to go about it with their doctor, if they were so concerned about how Covid may possibly affect them. There are people that have went to their doctor and were told not to get a vaccine, my auntie was one of them.

You presume that a doctor can tell you how you'll react. Dr. Kidney was very clear that he didn't have the foggiest idea how I'd react to covid because there's absolutely zero pattern to draw a conclusion from. He's had patients that were already on death's door shake it off like it was nothing, and he's had patients that were in perfectly good health drop dead. And mind you that 100% of his patients are in the high risk group. They get infected, they recover, they die, all at about the same rate as everybody else, and there's just no way of predicting how it'll go.

If I go from Covid, then so be it. This world sucks anyways and it's going to hell anyways.

Did you even read what I wrote? I share your cynicism about life, so "so be it" is perfectly applicable when it comes to dying. Not about dying of a specific disease. Would you say "Oh, if I die of ALS, so be it?" 

Yes I would. See for me, I am only living because I wake up each day. I actually hate this life right now. But I am not going to go to lengths to try and kill myself. If it so happens that an illness causes me to go then so be it.

[XJDenton]

Minor point regarding testing: if the tests are unreliable, that's a reason to do more of them. Not less.

[Ben_Jamin]

Minor point regarding testing: if the tests are unreliable, that's a reason to do more of them. Not less.

The home tests are only there under a FDA emergency authorization. Once that goes from Emergency to "Normal" those tests become moot as they are not approved by the FDA. it says so right on the box.

[XJDenton]

I live in Sweden. The FDA has no power here.

In any case, approval is irrelevant to the statistical point I was making. If tests are unreliable due to false negatives, multiple tests reduce the likelihood that a positive result (which is nearly always true barring a systemic error) goes undetected by at least one of the tests.

[cramx3]

I took a home test and it came back positive. Yay me...

That sucks.  I hope you feel better soon. 

Also, another person I know from Progpower on facebook posted they are positive just today.

Mike's "obsessive" testing is showing to have been the prudent thing to do in such a situation of known covid spread and contact.

I fully take on board the nature of the word 'obsessive' and how I used and referred to it.  I used it as a general term in relation to my views on the entire subject, not essentially as targeting a specific case, even if it came across like that.

You don't need to explain yourself more than you already have.  I'm cool with your opinions and while I never thought you had any sort of negative intent, I think it did come off that way.  It's all good, you've explained yourself perfectly fine.

[wolfking]

I took a home test and it came back positive. Yay me...

That sucks.  I hope you feel better soon. 

Also, another person I know from Progpower on facebook posted they are positive just today.

Mike's "obsessive" testing is showing to have been the prudent thing to do in such a situation of known covid spread and contact.

I fully take on board the nature of the word 'obsessive' and how I used and referred to it.  I used it as a general term in relation to my views on the entire subject, not essentially as targeting a specific case, even if it came across like that.

You don't need to explain yourself more than you already have.  I'm cool with your opinions and while I never thought you had any sort of negative intent, I think it did come off that way.  It's all good, you've explained yourself perfectly fine.

Cheers for that Marc.

[jingle.boy]

Mate, my work wanted to mandate the vaccine for all staff or else we lost our jobs.  Now, I wasn't going to quit my job over it, I'm not that stupid, I would have gotten it, but I don't go down without a fight.

They wanted staff to be vaccinated yet we didn't need to check the status of our customers.  So vaccinated or non vaccinated people could enter the facility.  So I potentially was being forced to vaccinate while I could have 200 people using the pool that I'm watching that aren't vaccinated?!?  Fuck that. 

There were holes in the conditions they were going by in relation to us getting vaccinated and I pulled it apart and they were wrong.  I stand up for my staff with what I feel is right.  If it came down to it, as I said I was getting it, but the basis around it didn't make sense and I've always challenged things like that.

Anti vax, whatever, it's just a title, at the end of the day, I couldn't care less if I am or not.  I'm fine being judged about it, it doesn't matter.

As for the other stuff, we just have to agree to disagree I think.  Over 6M dead, oh well, their time was up.  The dude who didn't put on a seatbelt and died from a crash, oh well, he's fault for forgetting, his time was up.  Again, I should be dead, so my viewpoint is fucked as I struggle through things, but man, I do love you, but I do think you need to relax on the whole thing just a little.

First, thanks for that additional context on your work situation.  Second, zero judgment.  I thought about typing it in my last response, but didn't think it needed to be said between us.  But, just in case, now I'll say it.  I have no judgment to you on this - you do you.

Lastly, to the bolded part ... you're definitely probably right.  Seriously.  On the flipside, for as much as I should could relax a little, you could recognize that COVID still is a serious matter for a whole shit ton of people.   

Now let's hug it out.

[jingle.boy]

I took a home test and it came back positive. Yay me...

That sucks.  I hope you feel better soon. 

Also, another person I know from Progpower on facebook posted they are positive just today.

Mike's "obsessive" testing is showing to have been the prudent thing to do in such a situation of known covid spread and contact.

I fully take on board the nature of the word 'obsessive' and how I used and referred to it.  I used it as a general term in relation to my views on the entire subject, not essentially as targeting a specific case, even if it came across like that.

You don't need to explain yourself more than you already have.  I'm cool with your opinions and while I never thought you had any sort of negative intent, I think it did come off that way.  It's all good, you've explained yourself perfectly fine.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[wolfking]

I apologise if I come across that I'm trivializing COVID.  I've always said, it's been mild over here compared to overseas, so that skews my viewpoint for sure.  The stats are there and I'm certainly not a conspiracy type of guy either that says it doesn't exits, not in the slightest, stats are facts.  I work with a couple of those and luckily I know I'm not that fucking crazy.  These people are a little different again lol.  So, I admit I may play it down and that has worked for me over here in my situation and for luckily, but I certainly realise the serious nature of it all for sure.

[Stadler]

Dude... and you know I love you just as much back, but this statement is literally an example of someone opposed to being vaccinated.  You aren't the stereotypical "anti-vax" person, but you literally went to some length to not vaccinate yourself.  This is the literal definition of being against/anti-vax(ccination).  Just own it man.

Sorry, if I may interject, but NO.  I am not anti-vaccine, in fact I've had both and a booster, as has all my family, but I am pretty strongly against mandates.  There is a difference between not wanting to vaxx YOURSELF, and not accepting that the government can (or should) DEMAND EVERYONE be vaxx'd.   From a privacy perspective, I don't see much difference between having the right to abort a baby (I am pro-choice) and having the right to deny a needle in your arm.  I get that we - society - is conflicting on that point, but that doesn't mean I agree with society.  I'm okay with reasonable restrictions against those that don't vaxx - REASONABLE - but there are layers to this issue.

[wolfking]

Dude... and you know I love you just as much back, but this statement is literally an example of someone opposed to being vaccinated.  You aren't the stereotypical "anti-vax" person, but you literally went to some length to not vaccinate yourself.  This is the literal definition of being against/anti-vax(ccination).  Just own it man.

Sorry, if I may interject, but NO.  I am not anti-vaccine, in fact I've had both and a booster, as has all my family, but I am pretty strongly against mandates.  There is a difference between not wanting to vaxx YOURSELF, and not accepting that the government can (or should) DEMAND EVERYONE be vaxx'd.   From a privacy perspective, I don't see much difference between having the right to abort a baby (I am pro-choice) and having the right to deny a needle in your arm.  I get that we - society - is conflicting on that point, but that doesn't mean I agree with society.  I'm okay with reasonable restrictions against those that don't vaxx - REASONABLE - but there are layers to this issue.

Thank you Bill, wonderfully articulated.  If that was any other poster that posted that towards me, I would be banned now but cause it was Chad, I explained myself and kept it cool because I could have gotten pretty offended.

But, the situation at my work was poorly handled.  When we had a cut off date to be vaccinated, the State Government Health Guidelines they referenced it to, I pulled apart and threw it back at them.  It came down to the occupant density guidelines for staff and customers deep in the document.   Can't remember exactly but there was a conflict I think my company referenced it where the occupant density was the same for customers and staff yet staff has to be vaxxed but customers didn't according to my organisation or something like that.   The manager laughed at me when I presented it but it eventually went up to the Director and CEO.  Phone calls were made to the Government's Health Department and what I pulled from the document was correct and the mandate was dropped.

I've had vaccines in the past but not for years now.  I'm not anti, but I oppose the government trying to force me into a vaccine just to do my job when others would be able to visit my work, for non essential services and not have to be vaccinated, that was just absurd.

For months, non vaxxed weren't allowed out to restaurants, movie, bars etc without proof and I was fine sacrificing all that, I don't go out much anyway and that was my choice to sacrifice because of my decision.  That has since all been dropped everywhere.

If it came down to it, I would have gotten vaccinated but in no way was I doing it just cause the company was telling me without a fight.   I'm not anti-vax, but am anti-mandates for sure.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, as someone who has gotten three COVID shots so far (the booster late last year), I totally agree with Bill's post as well. 

[emtee]

I've been thinking about this for a few weeks. It's going to take many years to calculate the total impact that covid had globally. IMO, almost every calamity we are currently experiencing can be partially or wholly attributable to covid. Supply chain woes, inflation, food and product shortages, labor force, and while I may be reaching a bit, it's also plausible that Putin took covid into account while factoring whether or not it was the right time to invade. This will be studied by scholars and books will be written. In the final analysis, it may turn out to be one of the most impactful events in human history.

[ZKX-2099]

I've been thinking about this for a few weeks. It's going to take many years to calculate the total impact that covid had globally. IMO, almost every calamity we are currently experiencing can be partially or wholly attributable to covid. Supply chain woes, inflation, food and product shortages, labor force, and while I may be reaching a bit, it's also plausible that Putin took covid into account while factoring whether or not it was the right time to invade. This will be studied by scholars and books will be written. In the final analysis, it may turn out to be one of the most impactful events in human history.

Don't blame a virus. It was the actions of those in power that caused the problems we are dealing with now.

[emtee]

I've been thinking about this for a few weeks. It's going to take many years to calculate the total impact that covid had globally. IMO, almost every calamity we are currently experiencing can be partially or wholly attributable to covid. Supply chain woes, inflation, food and product shortages, labor force, and while I may be reaching a bit, it's also plausible that Putin took covid into account while factoring whether or not it was the right time to invade. This will be studied by scholars and books will be written. In the final analysis, it may turn out to be one of the most impactful events in human history.

Don't blame a virus. It was the actions of those in power that caused the problems we are dealing with now.

Could you please elaborate? Are you saying over reaction, inaction, wrong course(s) of action. I'm just trying to get specifics.

[jingle.boy]

Let me state a few things first so that there (hopefully) isn’t any misunderstandings.  All that I’m saying on this matter is without judgment nor does anything anyone has commented about change my opinion of anyone here.  Kade is my closest non-US friend, and nothing about COVID, or politics, or music is going to change that.  Bill’s in the top 3 (he knows who he's behind  ).  Any banter I/we have back and forth is just that - banter.  We may have differences of opinions on matters, and may not understand the basis for those differences sometimes, but that could be said for anything - the love of growlie music, or Margot Robbie as the most beautiful woman on the planet.  I can understand and accept these differences, even if I disagree with them.  Now, to the matter at hand.

Dude... and you know I love you just as much back, but this statement is literally an example of someone opposed to being vaccinated.  You aren't the stereotypical "anti-vax" person, but you literally went to some length to not vaccinate yourself.  This is the literal definition of being against/anti-vax(ccination).  Just own it man.

Sorry, if I may interject, but NO.  I am not anti-vaccine, in fact I've had both and a booster, as has all my family, but I am pretty strongly against mandates.  There is a difference between not wanting to vaxx YOURSELF, and not accepting that the government can (or should) DEMAND EVERYONE be vaxx'd.   From a privacy perspective, I don't see much difference between having the right to abort a baby (I am pro-choice) and having the right to deny a needle in your arm.  I get that we - society - is conflicting on that point, but that doesn't mean I agree with society.  I'm okay with reasonable restrictions against those that don't vaxx - REASONABLE - but there are layers to this issue.

Almost entirely fair points    .  And yes, we (you and I) do not see eye-to-eye on this matter.  Our governments demand / require things of citizens all the time for public health reasons.  I personally don't see a significant issue in requiring people not to drink and drive (my body my choice!)  If the gov't can mandate no one drink and drive in the interest of public health, I don't have issues with other mandates in the interest of public health - and a global multi year pandemic sometimes stretches the "reasonability" of such mandates ... which I'm willing to accept.  Look, I know you have a different outlook on this point, so no need to waste your finger power pointing out how I'm wrong - you've done it ad infinitum already.  We're not trying to convince each other of whose more right/wrong here, we're just expressing thoughts and opinions.  Yours and mine are different on this point, so let's just agree to disagree.

My stance on the vaccines... For virtually my entire adult life, I did not get a flu vaccine because I didn’t see the need or value to me.  I was completely ambivalent about it.  I’m not wholly anti-vax - I didn’t actively chose *not* to get a flu vaccine.  I have my MMR shots, and Tetanus, and others.  Am I “anti-vax” because I was passively ambivalent about the flu vaccine?  I wouldn’t say so.  But (imo) people taking an approach similar to what Kade has/does described .... perhaps the more accurate term is anti-THIS-vax. Look, I’m not saying this as an attack or with judgment (see post above), but just be honest and real about things.  When one actively decides for themselves they don’t want/need the vaccine, and poses an official challenge and escalation to their CEO about getting the vaccine, they are against the vaccine - and I get that it's with their own completely valid and legitimate reasons.  I personally don't fully understand or agree with that position, but that's me.  I also don't agree that Margot Robbie is the hottest woman on earth, or that growls are generally an appealing vocal style.  But that's me, and others would disagree with me.  And that's ok.  You do you (royal); I'll do me

I also don't buy into the notion that people are JUST anti-mandates.  Would you go into a restaurant that had a red sticker for a health and safety violations on the door?  Would you buy a house that didn't have an electrical safety certificate?  Do you wear a seatbelt?  Do you have car insurance?  All of those things are mandated.  And few people blow a gasket over those.

Let me posit this to the group.  I assume that in Kade's line of work, swim instructors and emergency personnel are required to have police background checks and/or be certified in CPR and other health measures?  Are we against those measures?  Would we tolerate or accept skirting around that "mandate"?  I suspect the people that want to point the finger at the gov't for various layers of vaccine mandates are not against all “government mandates”.  But *this* mandate was something to take a stand over.  That tells me that (and this isn't directed at you, Kade, as it's the case for millions of people - maybe 10s of millions), it is ‘this mandate, for this vaccine’ that they are/were against* - not that they are/were anti-gov’t mandates generally speaking.

*And I simply don't understand why this is/was the case for so many.

[ZKX-2099]

I've been thinking about this for a few weeks. It's going to take many years to calculate the total impact that covid had globally. IMO, almost every calamity we are currently experiencing can be partially or wholly attributable to covid. Supply chain woes, inflation, food and product shortages, labor force, and while I may be reaching a bit, it's also plausible that Putin took covid into account while factoring whether or not it was the right time to invade. This will be studied by scholars and books will be written. In the final analysis, it may turn out to be one of the most impactful events in human history.

Don't blame a virus. It was the actions of those in power that caused the problems we are dealing with now.

Could you please elaborate? Are you saying over reaction, inaction, wrong course(s) of action. I'm just trying to get specifics.

Any action really. Done by politicians. Not a virus.

[cramx3]

Considering all states and countries acted differently and there was no difference in the end game, I'm not sure I can so easily blame politicians other than on very specific choices.  Generally speaking, I think I would disagree blaming politicians over the virus itself.

[emtee]

I think as we look back there will be Monday morning quarterbacking but there were two administration's involved, as well as multiple governmental agencies, pharma companies and countless others. Their goal, having minimal data in real time, was to keep as many humans alive as possible and to keep health care facilities from imploding. Difficult decisions had to be made. I can't agree that politicians were to blame.

[Harmony]

Agree with the Monday morning quarterbacking statement...but people seem to have short memories.

Early days, there was little to no PPE for medical providers.  In the US there were not enough ventilators.  I'd like to just consider where we would be today had the government NOT stepped in.  Because when our doctors and nurses get sick and some of them die, who takes care of the rest of us?  Even for non-Covid related things?  Who provides your cancer treatment?  Who delivers your baby?  Who does your angiogram after your heart attack?  Who takes care of your parent after they have a stroke?

[Stadler]

Let me state a few things first so that there (hopefully) isn’t any misunderstandings.  All that I’m saying on this matter is without judgment nor does anything anyone has commented about change my opinion of anyone here.  Kade is my closest non-US friend, and nothing about COVID, or politics, or music is going to change that.  Bill’s in the top 3 (he knows who he's behind  ).  Any banter I/we have back and forth is just that - banter.  We may have differences of opinions on matters, and may not understand the basis for those differences sometimes, but that could be said for anything - the love of growlie music, or Margot Robbie as the most beautiful woman on the planet.  I can understand and accept these differences, even if I disagree with them.  Now, to the matter at hand.

Wives excluded, AMEN to that.

Dude... and you know I love you just as much back, but this statement is literally an example of someone opposed to being vaccinated.  You aren't the stereotypical "anti-vax" person, but you literally went to some length to not vaccinate yourself.  This is the literal definition of being against/anti-vax(ccination).  Just own it man.

Sorry, if I may interject, but NO.  I am not anti-vaccine, in fact I've had both and a booster, as has all my family, but I am pretty strongly against mandates.  There is a difference between not wanting to vaxx YOURSELF, and not accepting that the government can (or should) DEMAND EVERYONE be vaxx'd.   From a privacy perspective, I don't see much difference between having the right to abort a baby (I am pro-choice) and having the right to deny a needle in your arm.  I get that we - society - is conflicting on that point, but that doesn't mean I agree with society.  I'm okay with reasonable restrictions against those that don't vaxx - REASONABLE - but there are layers to this issue.

Almost entirely fair points    .  And yes, we (you and I) do not see eye-to-eye on this matter.  Our governments demand / require things of citizens all the time for public health reasons.  I personally don't see a significant issue in requiring people not to drink and drive (my body my choice!)  If the gov't can mandate no one drink and drive in the interest of public health, I don't have issues with other mandates in the interest of public health - and a global multi year pandemic sometimes stretches the "reasonability" of such mandates ... which I'm willing to accept.  Look, I know you have a different outlook on this point, so no need to waste your finger power pointing out how I'm wrong - you've done it ad infinitum already.  We're not trying to convince each other of whose more right/wrong here, we're just expressing thoughts and opinions.  Yours and mine are different on this point, so let's just agree to disagree.[/quote]

We can and will disagree and still be friends; but I should point out, drunk driving is not analogous. I said I WOULD support reasonable consequences for no vaccine (losing one's job is not reasonable) just like I accept that if I drink I can't, temporarily, drive.  Driving is not a right.  So as long as you don't prevent me from DRINKING, we're good.  We just need to find the vaccine equivalent of "Uber".

I also don't buy into the notion that people are JUST anti-mandates.  Would you go into a restaurant that had a red sticker for a health and safety violations on the door?  Would you buy a house that didn't have an electrical safety certificate?  Do you wear a seatbelt?  Do you have car insurance?  All of those things are mandated.  And few people blow a gasket over those.

You're confusing things. They aren't mandated; they are required in order to do certain other things.  I CAN go in that restaurant if I'm a sucker for punishment (and diahrea).  I sold my house half a year ago with no inspection; so someone DID buy my house without at least PROOF of an electrical safety certificate.   I sometimes wear a seatbelt, and sometimes I don't.   If I don't drive, I don't need car insurance.  I can make the choice.  Sitting on my couch, I need not do a thing.  The vaccine mandate - like the healthcare mandate, which I also oppose (though I know why they did it) - affects my being even if I'm not doing anything other than sitting on the couch. 

Let me posit this to the group.  I assume that in Kade's line of work, swim instructors and emergency personnel are required to have police background checks and/or be certified in CPR and other health measures?  Are we against those measures?  Would we tolerate or accept skirting around that "mandate"?  I suspect the people that want to point the finger at the gov't for various layers of vaccine mandates are not against all “government mandates”.  But *this* mandate was something to take a stand over.  That tells me that (and this isn't directed at you, Kade, as it's the case for millions of people - maybe 10s of millions), it is ‘this mandate, for this vaccine’ that they are/were against* - not that they are/were anti-gov’t mandates generally speaking.

*And I simply don't understand why this is/was the case for so many.

Again, not the same.  I don't need a vaccine to do my job. I DO need a law license.  And if I'm selling myself as an attorney, I should be able to prove that I am what I say, and the license is that. I can - like with my PE license - decide to let it lapse.  No harm no foul, though I can't stamp and sign drawings anymore.   I can also decide to renew if I choose to go back to being an engineer.   My choice.  If Kade is a life guard (I know you're more than that, buddy, but bear with) I DO need to know if he can swim.  I DON'T need to know if he's vaccinated.

[jingle.boy]

Look, I know you have a different outlook on this point, so no need to waste your finger power pointing out how I'm wrong - you've done it ad infinitum already. 

And yet, here we are again.     <sigh>

We can and will disagree and still be friends; but I should point out, drunk driving is not analogous. I said I WOULD support reasonable consequences for no vaccine (losing one's job is not reasonable) just like I accept that if I drink I can't, temporarily, drive.  Driving is not a right.  So as long as you don't prevent me from DRINKING, we're good.  We just need to find the vaccine equivalent of "Uber".

In the context of a global pandemic, I don't really care about "rights" of US citizens.  This isn't a *US* pandemic, it's a global one - so I don't take into consideration "rights" as defined by various Constitutions.  The virus sure doesn't care about said "rights".

I also don't buy into the notion that people are JUST anti-mandates.  Would you go into a restaurant that had a red sticker for a health and safety violations on the door?  Would you buy a house that didn't have an electrical safety certificate?  Do you wear a seatbelt?  Do you have car insurance?  All of those things are mandated.  And few people blow a gasket over those.

You're confusing things. They aren't mandated;

Well, passing health inspections is for restaurants; Home builders have to pass their inspections to in order to sell their product.(I meant to put "new homes" in my original statement... sure resale is a different case).

Again, not the same.  I don't need a vaccine to do my job. I DO need a law license. 

First, if you're going to pull the "not the same" card (twice in this post now), then please avoid the abortion comparison to COVID... because pregnancies and a global pandemic aren't the same.  Second, why do you need a law license to do your job?  Required by law I assume, which in a sense is tantamount to a "mandate"?

If Kade is a life guard (I know you're more than that, buddy, but bear with) I DO need to know if he can swim.  I DON'T need to know if he's vaccinated.

On an individual level, you have somewhat of a valid point.  On a societal level though?  Let's just leave it at you and I disagreeing with what's reasonable to accept in the interests of public health and safety.

[wolfking]

If Kade is a life guard (I know you're more than that, buddy, but bear with) I DO need to know if he can swim.  I DON'T need to know if he's vaccinated.

Bingo. 

I'm a pretty damn good swimmer, a good lifeguard, can maintain pool pumps and water quality.  I need certificates for all those, being vaccinated or not, that doesn't come into the conversation.

I'll put this out there.  Chad doesn't still believe my stance considering the lengths I went to to get the mandate overturned.  The basis was all customers vaxxed or non vaxxed could come in and use the aquatic facilities while staff had to be vaccinated.  Say someone has a heart attack and I need to give CPR (which has happened but only once in my career to me), I have no idea if this person is vaccinated or not.  Since COVID we are taught that rescue breaths don't have to be given but I'm getting close and personal with this person trying to revive them and I don't know their status on vaccinations.  Is that fair to me?  but would I bork and not try and save the guy?  Of course not.

Now, I know you'll come back and say that's what the company was doing trying to protect the worker getting the mandate, but isn't that my choice?  I sure as hell am not going to shy away from rescuing someone because of COVID.  I did CPR once many many years ago, an older man, was dead before he hit the floor but froth and all from the mouth, blood from his head from hitting the floor, I went all in and blew into him and broke some ribs trying to revive him.  Diseases or anything did not come into my mind at the time.

Now, my point of view is that I've dealt with vomit, blood, shit, piss all hands on.  I've stuck my hands up toilets to unblock them and cleaned up some bogus things.  People really are the worst, that's my line of work, and I've never gotten sick....yet.  But this is all MY CHOICE, I'll deal and touch anything, it doesn't worry me so the thinking that the company would lose me as a worker who keeps their venues operating because I wouldn't get a COVID vaccination is just laughable.  So this line from Chad "what's reasonable to accept in the interests of public health and safety." doesn't wash with me from what I've seen and done, sorry.  I'd get something like Hepatitis way before I'd start worrying about a bout of COVID.

Maybe you just need to be in a line of work that I'm in to get a different perspective, I'm not sure.  I just see things how they are and call a spade a spade.

[jingle.boy]

If Kade is a life guard (I know you're more than that, buddy, but bear with) I DO need to know if he can swim.  I DON'T need to know if he's vaccinated.

Bingo. 

I'm a pretty damn good swimmer, a good lifeguard, can maintain pool pumps and water quality.  I need certificates for all those, being vaccinated or not, that doesn't come into the conversation.

Totally fine, and totally accurate.  I just have trouble with the notion of people (generally) being supposedly "against mandates" around vaccination, but don't balk at other mandates - especially when they're are all designed to accomplish the same fundamental thing - public safety.

I'll put this out there.  Chad doesn't still believe my stance ...

Not true.  I believe your stance.  I just don't necessarily agree with or personally relate with it.  Nonetheless, I understand it is your stance and I accept it - kinda like growls.  Honestly mate, think if it the same way.  On an individual level, this is no bigger deal to me than that.

  I'd get something like Hepatitis way before I'd start worrying about a bout of COVID.

And yet you got COVID.... and were luckily one of the not-serious cases.  Which I'm personally very grateful for.

  Maybe you just need to be in a line of work that I'm in to get a different perspective, I'm not sure.  I just see things how they are and call a spade a spade.

Maybe ... but I definitely know something about calling a spade a spade.   

[wolfking]

If Kade is a life guard (I know you're more than that, buddy, but bear with) I DO need to know if he can swim.  I DON'T need to know if he's vaccinated.

Bingo. 

I'm a pretty damn good swimmer, a good lifeguard, can maintain pool pumps and water quality.  I need certificates for all those, being vaccinated or not, that doesn't come into the conversation.

Totally fine, and totally accurate.  I just have trouble with the notion of people (generally) being supposedly "against mandates" around vaccination, but don't balk at other mandates - especially when they're are all designed to accomplish the same fundamental thing - public safety.

Because those things are requirements to do my job, and always have been.  A COVID vaccine is not.

I'll put this out there.  Chad doesn't still believe my stance ...

Not true.  I believe your stance.  I just don't necessarily agree with or personally relate with it.  Nonetheless, I understand it is your stance and I accept it - kinda like growls.  Honestly mate, think if it the same way.  On an individual level, this is no bigger deal to me than that.

That maybe comes back to our lines of work being different perhaps, not sure.  Not sure why you keep bringing growls up? 

  I'd get something like Hepatitis way before I'd start worrying about a bout of COVID.

And yet you got COVID.... and were luckily one of the not-serious cases.  Which I'm personally very grateful for.

I'd take another bout of COVID over Hepatitis anyday.

  Maybe you just need to be in a line of work that I'm in to get a different perspective, I'm not sure.  I just see things how they are and call a spade a spade.

Maybe ... but I definitely know something about calling a spade a spade.   

I know you do, you're not an idiot and I'm not saying anything about your line of work, you're more successful than I'll ever be but I think it could have an influence on things.

[King Postwhore]

I feel left out.

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And....
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I feel much better.

[wolfking]

I feel left out.

Quote.
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And....
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I feel much better.

Trying to work the quoting part out took more time than the responses, brutal.

[King Postwhore]

Hell, me singular responses are short. Stads puts me in a coma reading his manifestos.  (Love you Stads!)

[TAC]

Hell, me singular responses are short. Stads puts me in a coma reading his manifestos.  (Love you Stads!)

So you can spell manifestos, but you can't fucking spell...MY??

[Adami]

Hell, me singular responses are short. Stads puts me in a coma reading his manifestos.  (Love you Stads!)

So you can spell manifestos, but you can't fucking spell...MY??

I just read it in a bad British accent.

[King Postwhore]

I typed it as Bizaro.

Adami will understand.   Tim,  clueless.

[TAC]

What's Bizaro?

[King Postwhore]

Exactly.

[TAC]

Is that some sort of show or something?