Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[Ben_Jamin]

Considering Diego is like not even audible on the album, I don't see the purpose of that, but it's plausible.

He is...It's just not the tones you expect to hear.

https://youtu.be/hyPQCRcrpUM

Seems his ideas were likely shot down enough to where he could have said "Enough of this, I'm recording this and I'm out."

And he probably only recorded the album because of contractual reasons. Something similar happened with Kevin Moore and DT, he recorded Awake and then he was out.

I could see this...Agreeing to complete the album and record the tones and things you didn't want to and then said once I do record I am out.

[cramx3]

Considering Diego is like not even audible on the album, I don't see the purpose of that, but it's plausible.

He is...It's just not the tones you expect to hear.

https://youtu.be/hyPQCRcrpUM

I thought we were talking about Virus, he's definitely audible on Vector.  Especially in this song. I actually watched my own recording of this song the other night and really enjoy watching Diego play.  He's got a lot of energy and stage presence for a keyboard player.  I also enjoy watching him on the Devin Townsend live album, especially when he's serving drinks 

[Evermind]

He had lots of stage presence and, um, instrumental presence on Vector tour. He's also very present on the actual Vector album.

Virus, yeah, that's a different story.

[dparrott]

I play a mean triangle though.

Yea but Haken albums need more COWBELL!!! 

[KevShmev]

Seems his ideas were likely shot down enough to where he could have said "Enough of this, I'm recording this and I'm out."

Yep, to me that is the big question at this point: were his ideas getting shot down and he left because he felt the keys and his input were becoming less important, or was he leaving anyway and that is why his contributions on Virus were limited (relative to all prior Haken records)?

[Ben_Jamin]

Considering Diego is like not even audible on the album, I don't see the purpose of that, but it's plausible.

He is...It's just not the tones you expect to hear.

https://youtu.be/hyPQCRcrpUM

I thought we were talking about Virus, he's definitely audible on Vector.  Especially in this song. I actually watched my own recording of this song the other night and really enjoy watching Diego play.  He's got a lot of energy and stage presence for a keyboard player.  I also enjoy watching him on the Devin Townsend live album, especially when he's serving drinks 

 

The Virus only part totally went past my head.

Yeah, i can hear that. Need to listen to it again, haven't since a while.

[nobloodyname]

[Edit: removed the link because some info on it might be used to dox the members, but I have evidence & can DM it to people who want it.]

nobloodyname, your inbox is full, dummy

So it is! Fixed

[Evermind]

You know what I have just realized reading the lyrics to Falling Back to Earth? It isn't "for countless years I have been longing to a power jazz, power jazz".

[IDontNotDoThings]

You know what I have just realized reading the lyrics to Falling Back to Earth? It isn't "for countless years I have been longing to a power jazz, power jazz".

My second favourite lyric, only behind "non-stop purple force"

[Fritzinger]

You know what I have just realized reading the lyrics to Falling Back to Earth? It isn't "for countless years I have been longing to a power jazz, power jazz".

My second favourite lyric, only behind "non-stop purple force"

As far as I am concerned, this is the correct lyric, I don't care what anyone says.

[RoeDent]

The most prominent Diego is on Virus is the second half of the middle instrumental section of Carousel. BAM...BAM BAM...BAM BAM BAM BAM... in the background of the guitar solo while Ray's on the quieter snare.

[Elite]

The most prominent Diego is on Virus is the second half of the middle instrumental section of Carousel. BAM...BAM BAM...BAM BAM BAM BAM... in the background of the guitar solo while Ray's on the quieter snare.

And, you know, the entirety of Canary Yellow, the whole The Sect apart of Messiah Complex (including a solo) and a bunch of other spots as well.

[TM172003]

Not sure if this has been posted before, but the people on Haken’s subreddit found the band’s business under a different name on the government website. The whole band is listed as an LLP Designated Member except for Diego, who is listed as ‘Resigned’. I couldn’t see him being in the band anyway but I think this confirms it.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/OC421678/officers

[IDontNotDoThings]

Not sure if this has been posted before, but the people on Haken’s subreddit found the band’s business under a different name on the government website. The whole band is listed as an LLP Designated Member except for Diego, who is listed as ‘Resigned’. I couldn’t see him being in the band anyway but I think this confirms it.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/OC421678/officers

Kinda. I opted to make it private but it was what I was alluding to here:

[Edit: removed the link because some info on it might be used to dox the members, but I have evidence & can DM it to people who want it.]

[DTA]

I'm seriously wondering what the delay is in announcing his departure. Whatever legal issues regarding writing credits have to be resolved by now, right? I feel like he's been out of the band for over a year now.

[KevShmev]

Not surprising to see that at all.  Still a major bummer.  Between the blandness of Virus and Diego's departure, my interest in this band has completely plummeted.  They had become an auto-buy band for me, but I can't say that is the case now.  Doesn't mean I don't love the first four albums and part of the fifth album any less, though.

[cramx3]

I think that pretty much confirms what we all knew, sad to see him leave the band.  I hope it was for the right reasons and things aren't going to be nasty between the two parties.  I liked Virus and hope they can find a suitable replacement and continue to build upon their successes.

[NoFred]

TBH the best thing they could do is make new music (with keys don’t need replacement just have RH play them) they unfortunately had the worst timing possible* with a new album to tour last year, and probable change in prominent band member.

I didnt like the future bites, but the title is apropo, and SW is doing the right thing by rolling it’s tour over into the next one. Haken should do the same.

*just as a matter of timing DT worked out OK, lost some dates but get to put together DT15 on a slightly adjusted schedule. I guess I feel the bands that will do well are those with new/tourable music in early 2022.

[gmillerdrake]

Not surprising to see that at all.  Still a major bummer.  Between the blandness of Virus and Diego's departure, my interest in this band has completely plummeted.  They had become an auto-buy band for me, but I can't say that is the case now.  Doesn't mean I don't love the first four albums and part of the fifth album any less, though.

Pretty much this. I didn't mind Virus and Vector for that matter....there's some good music in there to be found. But the sound that I enjoy and what made Haken 'haken' for me was the sound they had in their first four albums. The 'heavier' Haken sounds alright I suppose but there's nothing special about it.....as to where I found plenty special with the first four efforts.

[Zydar]

Happy birthday to debut album Aquarius, 11 years old today.

[KevShmev]

Not surprising to see that at all.  Still a major bummer.  Between the blandness of Virus and Diego's departure, my interest in this band has completely plummeted.  They had become an auto-buy band for me, but I can't say that is the case now.  Doesn't mean I don't love the first four albums and part of the fifth album any less, though.

Pretty much this. I didn't mind Virus and Vector for that matter....there's some good music in there to be found. But the sound that I enjoy and what made Haken 'haken' for me was the sound they had in their first four albums. The 'heavier' Haken sounds alright I suppose but there's nothing special about it.....as to where I found plenty special with the first four efforts.

Agreed.  It always felt like the keys were just as important to the music as the guitars, but with the last two albums and Diego's departure, the balance is clearly tilting one way, and I'd be stunned if they hire a new keyboard guy and let him take a role front and center right off the bat, so I would expect this guitar-dominant phase to not end any time soon.

[jammindude]

I just viewed it as another phase. Every album has been quite different, and I figured this was just the style for these albums (which are, essentially, parts 1&2 of the same story).

I’m anticipating another left turn for the next album. If not, that would be disappointing.

[ariich]

I just viewed it as another phase. Every album has been quite different, and I figured this was just the style for these albums (which are, essentially, parts 1&2 of the same story).

I’m anticipating another left turn for the next album. If not, that would be disappointing.

All of this.

No idea where Kev is getting the idea that keys aren't important to the band anymore.

[gmillerdrake]

No idea where Kev is getting the idea that keys aren't important to the band anymore.

I think it's because they were buried in their last album. If you were lucky enough to be able to spot when you could hear any contribution from Diego it was fleeting and had no impact on the song....was just an accessory at best. The heavy approach to Virus eliminated Diego completely.....and I'd argue Ross as well. I know a few of you think Ross sounded fine on it but IMO his voice and style of singing was completely out of place in Virus.

Such is the magic of music. It hits us all differently

[Ben_Jamin]

No idea where Kev is getting the idea that keys aren't important to the band anymore.

I think it's because they were buried in their last album. If you were lucky enough to be able to spot when you could hear any contribution from Diego it was fleeting and had no impact on the song....was just an accessory at best. The heavy approach to Virus eliminated Diego completely.....and I'd argue Ross as well. I know a few of you think Ross sounded fine on it but IMO his voice and style of singing was completely out of place in Virus.

Such is the magic of music. It hits us all differently

Diego is there. It's the patch and sound choices chosen that blends in with the distortion of the guitar, or the low end of the bass. You really hear him in the instrumental versions.

For why I enjoy Virus and Vector is because the instruments all blend into this sound and tone, creating this atmosphere and setting for the concept.

Also, just realized Ross as well, he wasn't eliminated completely. Listen to the instrumental version of Invasion. Ross' vocals, rhythm and beat, contribute a lot to how the overall song sounds.

Now to me...It feels like maybe Diego wasn't too happy with the patches chosen on these albums. And did the album and tour, and said, "Screw you guys...I'm going home."

I would like to hope though, that his leaving has nothing to do with the music, and is more of a personal "It's a me thing" type of situation.

[gmillerdrake]

atmosphere and setting

This is what I enjoy the heck out of in their first four albums but feel like are missing in Virus for sure....and a bit of Vector. They painted a beautiful atmosphere and setting with the music in those first four albums. Their music/vocals was smoothly poetic even when they cranked into some heavier stuff. But for me the heavier turn they took with Vector and Virus eliminated the subtle approach to building those atmospheres......it wasn't poetic at all it was a more military approach that didn't build anything of significance....for me.

Again....there was some cool music to be heard in there but nothing that I thought 'wow....that's amazing' like I had on multiple occasions in the first four albums. 

[Revenge319]

I think Vector has a really great atmosphere to it. It's certainly different from albums like Aquarius and The Mountain, but I think there's a strong sense of atmosphere across the whole album.

As for Virus, while I think it's a great album, I do agree that has a lot less atmosphere than the other albums Haken has done.

[ariich]

No idea where Kev is getting the idea that keys aren't important to the band anymore.

I think it's because they were buried in their last album. If you were lucky enough to be able to spot when you could hear any contribution from Diego it was fleeting and had no impact on the song....was just an accessory at best. The heavy approach to Virus eliminated Diego completely.....and I'd argue Ross as well. I know a few of you think Ross sounded fine on it but IMO his voice and style of singing was completely out of place in Virus.

Such is the magic of music. It hits us all differently

Of course, I mean I don't agree with Virus and I love it, but I understand those sentiments with regard to that album and also to some extent with Vector (although the two are essentially a double album so I see it really as one project). That wasn't what I meant - I mean I don't understand why the approach taken on one album/project would signal a lack of interest in keys in general. I'm 99% certain it's not the case.

[gmillerdrake]

I mean I don't understand why the approach taken on one album/project would signal a lack of interest in keys in general. I'm 99% certain it's not the case.

   keys are a vital component to their sound and I can't see why they'd want to eliminate them. I guess that's why I didn't really connect with Virus because they were really buried IMO

[Ben_Jamin]

atmosphere and setting

This is what I enjoy the heck out of in their first four albums but feel like are missing in Virus for sure....and a bit of Vector. They painted a beautiful atmosphere and setting with the music in those first four albums. Their music/vocals was smoothly poetic even when they cranked into some heavier stuff. But for me the heavier turn they took with Vector and Virus eliminated the subtle approach to building those atmospheres......it wasn't poetic at all it was a more military approach that didn't build anything of significance....for me.

Again....there was some cool music to be heard in there but nothing that I thought 'wow....that's amazing' like I had on multiple occasions in the first four albums.

This was really prominent for me in The Mountain and Affinity.

The atmosphere of Vector and Virus is not the same as those past albums.  This isn't a Happy, uplifting, kind of atmosphere. It's more darker, and sinister, and a bit more distorted. Great to show the concept and the feelings of the subject that becomes The Cockroach King. And this "military approach" suits that extremely well.

Albums are meant to sound the way they are for that very reason of building a certain atmosphere. Grace Under Pressure is a great example of Atmosphere as well, because the production and mixing lead to a more colder, almost, wintery kind of atmosphere that the cover art portrays with it's use of colors.

the Distorted Atmosphere of Vector and Virus, makes it feel like we are experiencing the patients feelings. To me, these feelings are best represented in Puzzle Box, Host, A Cell Divides, Carousel, and Messiah Complex.

[ariich]

I mean I don't understand why the approach taken on one album/project would signal a lack of interest in keys in general. I'm 99% certain it's not the case.

   keys are a vital component to their sound and I can't see why they'd want to eliminate them. I guess that's why I didn't really connect with Virus because they were really buried IMO

For sure, I totally get that.

It's interesting though, I've never seen Haken as being at all defined by their sonic approach, as to me each album (treating Vector/Virus as a single entity) has been so different in that regard. For me their sound has always been defined by their melodic and harmonic approach which I always find quite rich and often beautifully melancholy. That's the thing I connect to most from their music, and I love how sad Virus is which is part of why it's my second favourite behind The Mountain.

I love how different people get such different things from music and connect to it in different ways.

[KevShmev]

No idea where Kev is getting the idea that keys aren't important to the band anymore.

From my ears.

Also, to clarify, my comment was, "It always felt like the keys were just as important to the music as the guitars, but with the last two albums and Diego's departure, the balance is clearly tilting one way, and I'd be stunned if they hire a new keyboard guy and let him take a role front and center right off the bat, so I would expect this guitar-dominant phase to not end any time soon," so I didn't say that the keys weren't important anymore, just that the balance had seemingly tilted away from them.

I love how different people get such different things from music and connect to it in different ways.

Oh, for sure, and I get that some are really loving Virus.  I just wish I was one of them.

[cramx3]

I might have found a tour leak for the US next May with Symphony X.

NYC Venue Irving Plaza announced their line up of concerts on twitter and in the list...

[TheCountOfNYC]

Well that’s an instant purchase for me once tickets go on sale.

[Ben_Jamin]

Dude, Dude.....That is one awesome lineup, and would be an instant purchase from me.