Haken v. new single Nightingale (April 26)

[cramx3]

Well, move on? I don't think it's boring at all. Album of the year for me.  I understand people might like the heavy direction, but the epic is far from a mess or boring.

[KevShmev]

I wouldn't describe Virus as boring, but as melodically uninteresting.   Every time I listened to it, it would end and I would have almost no memory of what I had just heard.  The melodies just aren't strong at all.

I won't say I am giving up on this band, but they are starting to trend down, which is a bit concerning.

[IDontNotDoThings]

y'all are insane calling this the best album of the year i don't get it 

ditto

anyways haken ranking

#1. Affinity
#2. Vector
#3. The Mountain
#4. Aquarius
#5. Visions
#6. Virus

Though really, Virus has really chipped away my interest in the band's other material. Affinity is the only Haken album I truly enjoy beginning to end nowadays.

[Pettor]

I wouldn't describe Virus as boring, but as melodically uninteresting.   Every time I listened to it, it would end and I would have almost no memory of what I had just heard.  The melodies just aren't strong at all.

I won't say I am giving up on this band, but they are starting to trend down, which is a bit concerning.

This! Messiah Complex is really the only song I can remember some great melodies from.

[ariich]

I wouldn't describe Virus as boring, but as melodically uninteresting.   Every time I listened to it, it would end and I would have almost no memory of what I had just heard.  The melodies just aren't strong at all.

I won't say I am giving up on this band, but they are starting to trend down, which is a bit concerning.

This! Messiah Complex is really the only song I can remember some great melodies from.

I'm not in any way suggesting that your opinions are wrong or inferior, but I just can't relate to them at all. I think melodically the album is a little less immediate than Vector (though let's be honest, Haken's melodies have never been that immediate), but a lot stronger, and I would say that Invasion, The Strain and Canary Yellow are where the album really shines melodically.

[gmillerdrake]

I wouldn't describe Virus as boring, but as melodically uninteresting.   Every time I listened to it, it would end and I would have almost no memory of what I had just heard.  The melodies just aren't strong at all.

I won't say I am giving up on this band, but they are starting to trend down, which is a bit concerning.

I'm right there with you. I dug Vector because it was a bit heavier.......but at least there was still a full band at play and there were the nuances that made Haken...HAKEN....for me. Virus drowns out all keyboard efforts and places Ross in a position where his vocals seem out of place for the majority of the songs.

It's good, skillful music....very technical and it does 'sound' good for the most part.....but for me....it's just not Haken. At least not the Haken that I had grown to love. Haken for me is the more melodic, progressive, atmospheric sound of their first few albums. Every member is an intricate part of the sound and they craft beautiful stories as songs.

Virus is just heavy metal with a splash of 'progressive' rock thrown in....most of the heavier sounds they're performing I've heard in other places....it's not original at all. For me it feels like they're trying to be something they're not.

[me7]

I love how the vocals on Virus contrast with the riffs.

[Fritzinger]

I'm starting to think you guys are all high...

[Pettor]

I wouldn't describe Virus as boring, but as melodically uninteresting.   Every time I listened to it, it would end and I would have almost no memory of what I had just heard.  The melodies just aren't strong at all.

I won't say I am giving up on this band, but they are starting to trend down, which is a bit concerning.

This! Messiah Complex is really the only song I can remember some great melodies from.

I'm not in any way suggesting that your opinions are wrong or inferior, but I just can't relate to them at all. I think melodically the album is a little less immediate than Vector (though let's be honest, Haken's melodies have never been that immediate), but a lot stronger, and I would say that Invasion, The Strain and Canary Yellow are where the album really shines melodically.

Haha and that's what strange about music. Invasion just sounds uninteresting to me and even comes of as uninspired. The chorus is actually just irritating. Yellow is at least the best of the rest (i.e. excluding Messiah Complex) but still just background music at best. Maybe sounds harsh but I can't get how any of these songs will go down as Haken classics. Puzzle Box from Vector is just another league and still not remarkable in the overall discography, but at least highly enjoyable.

[Evermind]

Invasion and The Strain are my favourites from the album, but I'd still say it's their second weakest record after Visions.

[cramx3]

How can one listen to The Strain and say there's no melody on this album?

To each their own.  I'm close to thinking Virus is my favorite Haken album.  I may have to wait until I see these songs live before I say that though.  But then again, I have Visions as my favorite and here it seems most aren't that big of fans of it.  I have no issue admitting I like the more "metal" Haken generally.

Anyway, where's Diego?    Funny how quiet that has become but I guess it's because of no touring that there's no need to address the elephant in the room.

[twosuitsluke]

After letting this settle for a bit I'd rank accordingly:

1. The Mountain
2. Affinity
3. Aquarius
4. Visions
5. Vector
6. Virus

Vector and Virus are basically ranked as equal 5th though, I like Vector more, by the smallest margin. I definitely enjoy Virus but the rest of their albums are just so strong! I think for me there is a big dip in quality from Affinity to Vector/Virus. Virus is in my top 10 albums of the year though.

I guess I loved Haken's progression, and change of direction, each album up until Affinity. I feel that was their creative peak and I love it. I totally have faith that they could release something that I will adore next 

[Revenge319]

My rankings are probably the same as the last time I brought it up.

1. The Mountain
2. Affinity
3. Vector
4. Aquarius
5. Virus
6. Visions

Affinity and Vector are basically tied. I find it interesting that my bottom two Haken albums contain my Top 2 Haken songs (Messiah Complex and Visions)...

[kirksnosehair]

I wouldn't describe Virus as boring, but as melodically uninteresting.   Every time I listened to it, it would end and I would have almost no memory of what I had just heard.  The melodies just aren't strong at all.

I won't say I am giving up on this band, but they are starting to trend down, which is a bit concerning.

They've never been a favorite of mine, but I've checked out every one of their albums and this is exactly how I've felt about all of them.   Generally, I enjoy them when I listen to them, but I rarely make it all the way through one of their albums and I never feel like I need to revisit them.  It's probably the lack of melodies that I find compelling or moving.  There are plenty of melodies, to be sure, they're just not melodies that I find particularly memorable. 

[ariich]

My rankings:

1. The Mountain
2. Virus
3= Vector
3= Affinity
5. Restoration
6. Visions
7. Aquarius

I've had a renewed love for Affinity which has brought it up to tie with Vector in third place. The middle of The Architect still really, really drags for me, but there's so much wonderful stuff on the album (including other parts of that song).

[Pettor]

How can one listen to The Strain and say there's no melody on this album?

Just to be correct, I don't think anyone argues that the songs lack melodies, just that the melodies aren't very inspiring / interesting. But def to each their own!

[gzarruk]

Anyway, where's Diego?    Funny how quiet that has become but I guess it's because of no touring that there's no need to address the elephant in the room.

Last time I checked, none of the other band members or even the band account itself followed him on Instagram (yeah, I was bored ).

[KevShmev]

I wouldn't describe Virus as boring, but as melodically uninteresting.   Every time I listened to it, it would end and I would have almost no memory of what I had just heard.  The melodies just aren't strong at all.

I won't say I am giving up on this band, but they are starting to trend down, which is a bit concerning.

I'm right there with you. I dug Vector because it was a bit heavier.......but at least there was still a full band at play and there were the nuances that made Haken...HAKEN....for me. Virus drowns out all keyboard efforts and places Ross in a position where his vocals seem out of place for the majority of the songs.

It's good, skillful music....very technical and it does 'sound' good for the most part.....but for me....it's just not Haken. At least not the Haken that I had grown to love. Haken for me is the more melodic, progressive, atmospheric sound of their first few albums. Every member is an intricate part of the sound and they craft beautiful stories as songs.

Virus is just heavy metal with a splash of 'progressive' rock thrown in....most of the heavier sounds they're performing I've heard in other places....it's not original at all. For me it feels like they're trying to be something they're not.

Well said. 

How can one listen to The Strain and say there's no melody on this album?

Just to be correct, I don't think anyone argues that the songs lack melodies, just that the melodies aren't very inspiring / interesting. But def to each their own!

Exactly. "Melodically uninteresting" was my description. And any scan of my posts in this thread from 4-5 years ago will show that this band was a tough mountain for me to climb, largely because of Ross' vocals, but the melodies were so strong and interesting back then that I kept going back to listen and eventually his voice grew on me. 

[Crow]

this is a problem with a lot of prog metal bands in the 2010's but their riffing has gotten super flat too. chugging on open notes with the occasional other note and no sense of groove does not a good riff make y'all. i can't even really point to a specific song bcuz off the top of my head almost every song on virus has this problem lol, yet they're all so interchangeable i couldn't tell you which riff comes from where, or even remember most of the riffs

[Fritzinger]

this is a problem with a lot of prog metal bands in the 2010's but their riffing has gotten super flat too. chugging on open notes with the occasional other note and no sense of groove does not a good riff make y'all. i can't even really point to a specific song bcuz off the top of my head almost every song on virus has this problem lol, yet they're all so interchangeable i couldn't tell you which riff comes from where, or even remember most of the riffs

No sense of groove at all? There's so many great grooves on this record, it's insane. And the songs on there are everything but interchangeable.

[jammindude]

I said this earlier, but it’s relevant to the discussion, so I’ll repeat it here:

I was actually very disappointed with Vector. Which was sad really, because I am of the opinion that Haken has the greatest “opening 4” albums in prog rock history, and possibly of any genre period. Only PoS was close, and I really wanted them to make it 5 out of the gate. So it was very disappointing to be so underwhelmed by Vector.

But Virus is outstanding, and the way it ties together with Vector has elevated them both. I spent quite some time listening to them back to back, and I’ve come to the conclusion that I think it was a mistake to release them separately. The concept works better as a double album, and if they had done that, I would have considered it a masterpiece. Most double concept albums are very front loaded. If this had been released as a single album, it would have been made even better by having “Act II” be stronger than “Act I”.

But since it is what it is, I still think Virus makes Vector a better album. I now think they have the greatest opening 6 albums in all of music, and might be set to surpass even DT as my 2nd all time favorite band.

[mike099]

I love Vector and Virus, but they are indeed different. Though I expect the to change again on the next release.
Anyone who would like something closer to older material should.check out Hen's solo album. Criminally underrepresented, not comparable to typical guitarist solo albums a la Petrucci.

I love The Cocoon by Hen, but I don't think it sounds anything like Haken's earlier material (though the majority of all albums up to The Mountain were written by him). I think, the jazzy/weird/djenty/staccato stuff is more present on that album than on any Haken album, but the music is just not that heavy (if that makes sense).

Fantastic album; I'm one of 100 proud owners of its vinyl edition too (I have yet to get it signed though)

I am really digging the Cocoon album. This one took a few listens and has grown.  I liked that the upload in youtube is no commercials and he actually participates in the comments.

[The Letter M]

From Haken's Facebook just a few minutes ago:

Who’s ready for some good news tomorrow?!

https://www.facebook.com/100044565693628/posts/245166716978850/

WHAT COULD IT MEAN?!?

-Marc.

[Elite]

New keyboard player

[The Letter M]

New keyboard player

Would that really qualify as "good news" for most fans?

Edit - their page started liking replies to the post but they skipped one comment - "is diego back?"

-Marc.

[Elite]

I don't know, they're going to have to address it at some point.

[cramx3]

New keyboard player

Would that really qualify as "good news" for most fans?

Edit - their page started liking replies to the post but they skipped one comment - "is diego back?"

-Marc.

I'm not sure that would be considered good news either as they've never officially stated he has left.  If they did, then I'd agree that the announcement of a new player would be considered good news, but if they just announce Diego has been replaced, that's going to be met with a lot of 

I don't know, they're going to have to address it at some point.

I believe they would have if 2020 didn't go to shit because they would have toured and it would have been obvious. I guess not touring has bought them a lot of time to figure this out. 

Although if they said something like, we had some issues with Diego but we worked them out and he IS in the band, I think that also would constitute good news.

[MinistroRaven]

If I have to guess I would say it's nothing related to Diego. But a vinyl repress for old albums.

I went to their store and found these:

[CrimsonSunrise]

I'm about here right now......

#1. Affinity
#2. Virus
#3T. Aquarius
#3T. The Mountain
#5. Visions
#6. Vector

[NoFred]

If I have to guess I would say it's nothing related to Diego. But a vinyl repress for old albums.

I went to their store and found these:

OK, this IS good news... nice find.

[devieira73]

Maybe Restoration II?!

[Fritzinger]

I have the black Mountain in my collection, but I had to pre-order this overpriced marbled version from my buddies from Haken 
The clear Affinity version is also sitting on my shelf, so I didn't buy this marbled version. (or was this a mistake???)

[Elite]

But I already have those albums

[The Letter M]

If I have to guess I would say it's nothing related to Diego. But a vinyl repress for old albums.

I went to their store and found these:

Interesting. I'm not a vinyl collector, but those t-shirts look nice. I got the Transformers-looking one last summer and it's really great! That vaporwave-y Affinity shirt looks nice as well!

I'll be honest, I was kind of hoping for band news or music news, but at least this isn't BAD news.

-Marc.

[Zydar]

https://www.facebook.com/100044565693628/posts/263629718465883/

"Prognosis Festival 2022 lineup announcement. We’re going to play a special set: Vector and Virus back to back in their entirety. Looking forward to seeing y’all there!"