Rush studio albums countdown thread!!! (#01 revealed!!)

[HOF]

With all due respect, Samsara, I don't see how Hold Your Fire can be classified by any stretch of the imagination.  Listen to those drums! That aside, I will push back on the idea that Rush should not be a pop band. I think any band should be able to be whatever kind of band they want.  I am always in favor of artistic freedom.

Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with Rush being whatever Rush wanted to be, and if this is a pop album it’s a darn good pop album (I’d probably agree with a pop-prog label more or less). I do share some of Samsara’s view that they probably pushed for a little too much of a good thing essentially repeating the sound and style of Power Windows just a little more in the pop/electronic direction. But there are enough good to great songs to make the album hold up for me.

[King Postwhore]

And they admitted it and why they went with more guitar orientated with Presto.  After Presto and RTB, again they questioned why those songs from those two albums had a bigger punch live compared to the album which led to Counterparts having a live sound for that album. 

[Samsara]

With all due respect, Samsara, I don't see how Hold Your Fire can be classified by any stretch of the imagination.  Listen to those drums! That aside, I will push back on the idea that Rush should not be a pop band. I think any band should be able to be whatever kind of band they want.  I am always in favor of artistic freedom.

Yeah, there’s nothing wrong with Rush being whatever Rush wanted to be, and if this is a pop album it’s a darn good pop album (I’d probably agree with a pop-prog label more or less). I do share some of Samsara’s view that they probably pushed for a little too much of a good thing essentially repeating the sound and style of Power Windows just a little more in the pop/electronic direction. But there are enough good to great songs to make the album hold up for me.

Kev - I mean, sure, a band can be what it WANTS to be. But there's a certain point where a band pushes TOO far away from its strengths. For me, Hold Your Fire was that moment for Rush.

Trust me, I get it. People were up in arms about Hear in the Now Frontier from Queensryche for the same reason. Now, 26 years after the fact, I actually hold that album in much higher regard, for the same reason a lot of Rush fans hold Hold Your Fire up there a bit. But for me, both bands, with those respective records, pushed too far away from their strengths.

[KevShmev]

Kev - I mean, sure, a band can be what it WANTS to be. But there's a certain point where a band pushes TOO far away from its strengths. For me, Hold Your Fire was that moment for Rush.

I don't see how, though.  To me, writing good songs with strong melodies WAS one of their biggest strengths, and that is what Hold Your Fire has.  (I know you didn't say this, but) I don't think of them as some hard rock (progressive) band whose strengths were chops and good songs just fell into their lap.  Anyone who knows me knows that I am a song guy first, and the chops/playing is always the icing on the cake, and that was the case with Rush as well.  While it was easy to be wowed by Neil's drums at first especially (even before I was really a fan, Tom Sawyer floored me because of the drums), the songs were what won me over and made me a fan.

Also, it is still weird to be talking about Rush in the past tense.

[425]

One factor here is that Rush had some different strengths and different people care more about some than they do about others.

Interestingly, I'm very much a prog fan who usually goes for the long, complex compositions. But that's not the case when it comes to Rush. I like that material, but to me they were at their strongest once they really nailed writing strong, compact songs with a subtler sort of complexity. Hold Your Fire is good to me in that area. I think that's also what the band viewed as their own greatest strength (evinced by their comments in interviews, plus the fact that they never went over 8 minutes after 1981). But of course no one has to feel the same way.

I think I'm also helped in my appreciation of something like Hold Your Fire by the fact that I'm coming to it after the fact, with the knowledge that there was a synth era and then they did other things with their sound. I don't know how I'd feel differently about it if I thought this was just the style of band they permanently are now.

[Stadler]

I reckon I will be on an island with this one, but I think Tai Shan is not nearly as bad as most fans think. No, it's not a standout, but it's an enjoyable song with nice melodies.  When I think of the worst/least best songs the band has ever done, that one doesn't enter the conversation for me.

You are not.  I am VERY MUCH in the camp that it gets slagged only because Geddy slagged it.  Granted, I LOVE Hold Your Fire, but it's actually a decent song.  I had it at #92 on my list (bearing in mind, I had THREE HYF songs in the top 15).

[Stadler]

I am fairly puzzled that seem so outraged at these rankings thus far.  I mean, it you want a list based on what you think the order should be, then wait till I'm done and count them down in your order, FFS.  Good grief.

I'm just puzzled that I'm obviously so far outside the norm here.  That's all.  And yes, I've paid attention, including the recent discussion of ranking the first four albums against each other.

Welcome to my world, Paul. 

[HOF]

One factor here is that Rush had some different strengths and different people care more about some than they do about others.

Interestingly, I'm very much a prog fan who usually goes for the long, complex compositions. But that's not the case when it comes to Rush. I like that material, but to me they were at their strongest once they really nailed writing strong, compact songs with a subtler sort of complexity. Hold Your Fire is good to me in that area. I think that's also what the band viewed as their own greatest strength (evinced by their comments in interviews, plus the fact that they never went over 8 minutes after 1981). But of course no one has to feel the same way.

I think I'm also helped in my appreciation of something like Hold Your Fire by the fact that I'm coming to it after the fact, with the knowledge that there was a synth era and then they did other things with their sound. I don't know how I'd feel differently about it if I thought this was just the style of band they permanently are now.

Yep, this is pretty much me. I’m a prog guy, but the Rush era I find most compelling was their more streamlined, song oriented era (though I think all of it had an aspect of prog included). As a hard rock/prog band in the 70s, I think Rush were pretty shaky. They hit their stride as they became better songwriters in the 80s IMO. But like you, I always knew there was this side of the band. It’s not like I started out in the 70s and was disappointed when they shifted in the 80s.

[Stadler]

19. Roll The Bones
18  Vapor Trails
17
16  Rush
15
14 Test For Echo
13
12 Caress Of Steel
11
10 Snakes And Arrows
9
8
7. Fly By Night
6. Hold Your Fire
5
4
3
2
1

So...catching up:

Roll The Bones sucks and blows.  Don't like it, probably will never listen to anything ON THAT ALBUM again.  (I will listen to the live Dreamline; that is awesome, and I sometimes make Rush instrumental playlists and I'd put "Where's My Thing" in there for that.)

Fly By Night:  is it the best?  No.  Is it the best of when they were trying to figure out what "Rush" was?  YES.  I have FBN as the highest of the "Sector 1" records, and by a long shot.  Only clunker is "By-Tor", really, and other than the lyrics it's not that bad.  Beneath, Between and Behind is amazing (32 on my list, right behind the title track at 30; I'd switch them today).  The Sector 1 set has the 5.1 version and that is MUST LISTENING, IMO.

Hold Your Fire:  Full stop, the best WRITTEN Rush album for me.  I think that record has their best SONGS overall.  Mission, Prime Mover... Second Nature.    Second Nature is just beautiful.   I don't care for the synth-y sound, and I would kill for an acoustic version of this record, but alas that's never going to happen, so we live with what we have.  This is probably top three in terms of Rush albums I actively listen to a lot, to this day.

[hefdaddy42]

Catching up over the last several days...

15.  Vapor Trails - Never listened to any remix or remaster or do-over or whatever.  Attempted to listen to the original release when it came out, and it sounded so bad that I was never able to make it through.  I had it ranked dead last, and for me anyway, there is a vast gulf of distance between this one and any other Rush album.  Easily the most disappointed I have ever been with any release by a band I liked.

14.  Roll The Bones - I like this quite a bit more than most here.  I have it at # 7.  What can I say, I like the material.  I think part of it is that it came out at just the right time for me to hear it, if that makes sense.  Get busy with the facts.

13.  Fly By Night - I like this album, but I don't love it.  I had it at # 17.

12.  Hold Your Fire - I like this one as well, but I don't love it.  I wasn't far off from the consensus here, having it ranked at # 14.

[HOF]

I think Second Nature is a worse clunker than Tai Shan. I’m usually good with sentimental ballads, but this one is just overwrought and a little bit meandering. Twinkly piano, awkward lyrics. Just don’t see much to like there.

[Lethean]

#16 for me.

I didn't know that Geddy doesn't like Tai Shan.  I think it's ok - not worth complaining about (for me), but I don't think it is one of their better songs.  And High Water isn't as good as their closing songs usually are.

But I love Force Ten - my favorite from the album, and Mission, Turn the Page, Time Stand Still, and Prime Mover.

It's a great album.

[Nick]

For some reason I thought I saw this was going to be M-F so I tuned out over the weekend, but time for some catching up. Speaking of catching up, I have re-listened to all the albums through Vapor Trails now, and continue to go back through the albums as Kev features them. Been neat doing things in consensus order where it started enjoyably and theoretically should only get better every day. 

Roll the Bones: Expected a gap here and got it. #14 on the big board, #9 on my list. I know people use easy listening as an insult in this case, but I've always just enjoyed throwing this album on. Even songs like Neurotica I love to hear. The opening one-two punch is well loved, and even though I've now heard it 1000 times too many, I actually love Roll the Bones. One thing in particular stands out to me about it. The rap section is what you'd expect from a trio of Canadian prog-rockers including a hip new rap section in one of their songs. It's not a horribly forced sounding integration of something new as can be seen one album later in Stick It Out.

Fly By Night: Hey, hit this one right on the average of #13! What an exciting album, just seeing the jump from the first album to this and what Neil could bring to the equation. Sure, you have some stuff that's still a little more in line with the first album, and you have Rivendell which deserves every yawn it gets, but then you have songs like Anthem, By-Tor, and the title track that are on a whole new level for the band.

Hold Your Fire: I was low at #15 compared to the overall #12. That said, the entire 16-10 range from me was really tough to order. The two clunkers at the end definitely help bring it down, that said the final ranking was just more a reflection of how much I love everything. Although there likely isn't anything on here I'm putting in my, let's say, top 15-20 of songs, there are plenty I'd probably be ranking in a reasonably good range behind that. And Time Stand Still is a favorite of mine to pretend to be able to play on drums.

19. Rush
18. Caress of Steel
17. Vapor Trails
16.
15. Hold Your Fire
14. Test for Echo
13. Fly By Night
12.
11.
10. Snakes and Arrows
9. Roll the Bones
8.
7.
6.
5.
4.
3.
2.
1.

Edit: And speaking of the tough choice between 16-10. I would be absolutely shocked if the album I had at #16 wasn't one of the albums revealed in the #11 or #10 spot. Kinda surprised it has survived thus far.

[devieira73]

As for the discussion of HYF being maybe too pop, I find it interesting as I think HYF has some weird things (more like quirky) in the arrangements and I hear Presto and Roll the Bones crossing that "pop" line a lot more. I mean, they're very sophisticated pop rock albums to me, as I hear the focus a lot more on Geddy's vocal melodies on those albums than on any other Rush album.

[jammindude]

I had HYF at #16.

I’ve always said that it was the very first Rush album with “skip tracks” but in retrospect that probably isn’t completely true. Probably better to say that it was the first Rush album with MORE than one skip track.

I still really love many of these songs. Prime Mover is a personal favorite. But Force Ten, Time Stand Still, Lock and Key and Mission are all stand outs. Turn the Page is ok I guess. I also quite like Second Nature. Tai Shan is perfectly written for the subject matter. It’s not mind blowing, but it doesn’t deserve the hate it gets. On my last listen, I remember that High Water was an overlooked gem that I had missed in the past.

IDK. Maybe 16 is a bit low.  Still a really good album.

[pg1067]

I reckon I will be on an island with this one, but I think Tai Shan is not nearly as bad as most fans think. No, it's not a standout, but it's an enjoyable song with nice melodies.  When I think of the worst/least best songs the band has ever done, that one doesn't enter the conversation for me.

You are not.  I am VERY MUCH in the camp that it gets slagged only because Geddy slagged it.  Granted, I LOVE Hold Your Fire, but it's actually a decent song.  I had it at #92 on my list (bearing in mind, I had THREE HYF songs in the top 15).

I didn't know that Geddy doesn't like Tai Shan.  I think it's ok - not worth complaining about (for me), but I don't think it is one of their better songs.  And High Water isn't as good as their closing songs usually are.

Geddy made some comment in an interview once - I think it was a good 20+ years ago, so who knows how he feels about the song today (or if he's given it any thought).  It was a bit like how MP slagged FII, and a decent chunk of fans suddenly decided they didn't like it either, and MP's comments were license to feel that way.

FWIW, I've disliked Tai Shan since day 1, but it's not like it's substantially worse than the rest of the album.

[TAC]

.

[Lethean]

I reckon I will be on an island with this one, but I think Tai Shan is not nearly as bad as most fans think. No, it's not a standout, but it's an enjoyable song with nice melodies.  When I think of the worst/least best songs the band has ever done, that one doesn't enter the conversation for me.

You are not.  I am VERY MUCH in the camp that it gets slagged only because Geddy slagged it.  Granted, I LOVE Hold Your Fire, but it's actually a decent song.  I had it at #92 on my list (bearing in mind, I had THREE HYF songs in the top 15).

I didn't know that Geddy doesn't like Tai Shan.  I think it's ok - not worth complaining about (for me), but I don't think it is one of their better songs.  And High Water isn't as good as their closing songs usually are.

Geddy made some comment in an interview once - I think it was a good 20+ years ago, so who knows how he feels about the song today (or if he's given it any thought).  It was a bit like how MP slagged FII, and a decent chunk of fans suddenly decided they didn't like it either, and MP's comments were license to feel that way.

FWIW, I've disliked Tai Shan since day 1, but it's not like it's substantially worse than the rest of the album.

That's interesting.  I've heard Neil refer to their older albums as kindergarten drawings on a refrigerator, but not really much from Geddy or Alex so it's interesting to hear about something he doesn't like.

I guess for me, sometimes I think of it as a pleasant song and enjoy listening to it, and sometimes it annoys me and I skip it.  I definitely don't think it's on the same level as most of the rest of the album though.

[Glasser]

Brace yourself for a whole lotta complaining...


12 Hold Your Fire

Highest Finish: 3 (Dittomist, DTA)
Lowest Finish: 19 (Samsara, Cool Chris)

This is another I love, warts and all.  The sound if it is a bit weird, with it being so high and tinny, and some of the more rocking parts sounding so, as Neil once called it, crash-bangy, so I get why it is a tough one for a lot of fans, but I feel that the songwriting is excellent.  Mission is one of their best songs ever, and most of the rest varies from very good to great.  Geddy once said this album sounded romantic, and I think that's a good description.  For better or worse, there is no other Rush album that sounds like this one.  I ranked this 9th, and I stand by it.

Favorite songs: Mission, Prime Mover, Turn the Page, Open Secrets, Time Stand Still

 

[425]

I reckon I will be on an island with this one, but I think Tai Shan is not nearly as bad as most fans think. No, it's not a standout, but it's an enjoyable song with nice melodies.  When I think of the worst/least best songs the band has ever done, that one doesn't enter the conversation for me.

You are not.  I am VERY MUCH in the camp that it gets slagged only because Geddy slagged it.  Granted, I LOVE Hold Your Fire, but it's actually a decent song.  I had it at #92 on my list (bearing in mind, I had THREE HYF songs in the top 15).

I didn't know that Geddy doesn't like Tai Shan.  I think it's ok - not worth complaining about (for me), but I don't think it is one of their better songs.  And High Water isn't as good as their closing songs usually are.

Geddy made some comment in an interview once - I think it was a good 20+ years ago, so who knows how he feels about the song today (or if he's given it any thought).  It was a bit like how MP slagged FII, and a decent chunk of fans suddenly decided they didn't like it either, and MP's comments were license to feel that way.

FWIW, I've disliked Tai Shan since day 1, but it's not like it's substantially worse than the rest of the album.

Tracked down some of the references on this.

There's a 2009 interview with Geddy:

You're supposed to be crappy when you make your first three or four records. But even in our middle period, we did this song called "Tai Shan," using a poem Neil wrote about climbing a mountain in China, and when I listen to that it's like, Bzzt. Error.. We should have known better.

Someone asked him about this in 2019, and he said:

As to Tai Shan... it's just one of those songs that Alex and I like to make fun of. At the time I was singing it, I wasn't standing on a mountain top. Because it was such a personal song for Neil, and it was such a great moment for him, Alex and I had a hard time putting ourselves in that moment. And guys in bands really need all the ammunition we can get to make fun of each other. It just sort of landed on Tai Shan. So I recognize that some people love that song, and I don't feel as harshly about it as I make out, but it's really a good reason to kid Neil.

And Alex commented on the song in an interview:

[Question: What, to you, are the worst songs that Rush ever recorded?]

Tai Shan is one of the worst, easily. And Panacea. It was an attempt at something that didn’t really work out. It was… innocent.

[Kram]

I reckon I will be on an island with this one, but I think Tai Shan is not nearly as bad as most fans think. No, it's not a standout, but it's an enjoyable song with nice melodies.  When I think of the worst/least best songs the band has ever done, that one doesn't enter the conversation for me.

I like Tai Shan as well.  Not one of my favorites from the album, that would be Mission, Time Stand Still, High Water and Prime Mover - but a decent song nevertheless.  The bottom half of my bracket is filling in nicely.  All of these albums are really really good honestly - it's just that they reached true greatness with some of the other albums that have yet to be named!

19. Rush
18. Test for Echo
17. Fly by Night
16. Hold Your Fire
15. Roll The Bones
14. Snakes & Arrows
13. Caress of Steel
12. Vapor Trails
11.
10.
9.
8.
7.
6.
5.
4.
3.
2.
1.

[Glasser]

I also had Hold Your Fire at 12.

[425]

Just got through listening to HYF. I ranked this at #9, so right alongside Vapor Trails atop the section of "albums I don't know very well." I think if I were to do the ranking again today, I would put it above VT and maybe even slip it up ahead of one or two of the albums I do know well. I think this album is really strong just from the perspective of songwriting, and I connect with a lot of the songs. The highlight is Mission, which is an instant top 10 Rush song for me and maybe even top 5. Then there's Prime Mover, Force Ten, High Water, Lock and Key... a lot of very strong songs here. And three listens in, I'm doubling down on my Tai Shan defense. This song is solid, and I'm glad it's here. It's one of the weaker ones on the album, but I wouldn't remove it even if I could.

Check back with me in two years and there's a good chance this will have made its way into my top five.


19. Rush (19)
18. Caress of Steel (17)
17. Test for Echo (16)
16.
15.
14. Fly By Night (13)
13. Roll the Bones (14)
12. Snakes & Arrows (18)
11.
10.
9. Hold Your Fire (12)
8. Vapor Trails (15)
7.
6.
5.
4.
3.
2.
1.

Eight albums in, I think I'm doing okay. One of my #15-16 is a controversial choice that we won't see for a while, but I'm a bit surprised we still haven't seen the other one. Hopefully it will show up in the next couple of days. I have one in my top 5 that I'm worried about, which I hope will hold on a little while longer.

[HOF]

My revealed list so far. (+/- actual ranking).

19. Rush (0)
18.
17. Snakes and Arrows (+1)
16.
15.
14. Caress of Steel (+4)
13. Fly By Night (0)
12.
11.
10. Roll The Bones (+4)
9. Hold Your Fire (+3)
8. Vapor Trails (+7)
7.
6. Test for Echo (+10)
5.
4.
3.
2.
1.

So far Vapor Trails and Test for Echo are the only ones which seem significantly out of step with the consensus. I think there will be a few more though.

[pg1067]

My revealed list so far. (+/- actual ranking).

That's interesting.  I'm going to do that by adding the absolute value of the difference between my ranking and the consensus (I'll call it "Paul's out-of-touch index" or POOTI):

19  Roll the Bones (14 - 5)
18  Hold Your Fire (12 - 6)
17  ??
16  Snakes & Arrows (18 - 2)
15  ??
14  ??
13  Test for Echo (16 - 3)
12  Rush (19 - 7)
11  ??
10  ??
9  Caress of Steel (17 - 8)
8  Vapor Trails (15 - 7)
7  ??
6  Fly by Night (13 - 7)
5  ??
4  ??
3  ??
2  ??
1  ??

Current POOTI:  45 (avg. 5.625)

[HOF]

My revealed list so far. (+/- actual ranking).

That's interesting.  I'm going to do that by adding the absolute value of the difference between my ranking and the consensus (I'll call it "Paul's out-of-touch index" or POOTI):

19  Roll the Bones (14 - 5)
18  Hold Your Fire (12 - 6)
17  ??
16  Snakes & Arrows (18 - 2)
15  ??
14  ??
13  Test for Echo (16 - 3)
12  Rush (19 - 7)
11  ??
10  ??
9  Caress of Steel (17 - 8)
8  Vapor Trails (15 - 7)
7  ??
6  Fly by Night (13 - 7)
5  ??
4  ??
3  ??
2  ??
1  ??

Current POOTI:  45 (avg. 5.625)

Oh, I guess that makes mine HOOTI!



I’d be at +29, or an average of 3.625 higher than the consensus so far.

[TAC]

Like fucking Rush isn't nerdy enough, we're now figuring out our....POOTI??

[Glasser]

Like fucking Rush isn't nerdy enough, we're now figuring out our....POOTI??

 

[pg1067]

[HOF]

Like fucking Rush isn't nerdy enough, we're now figuring out our....POOTI??

No, you’re figuring out your TOOTI.

[TAC]

Like fucking Rush isn't nerdy enough, we're now figuring out our....POOTI??

No, you’re figuring out your TOOTI.

I'm always messing with my TOOTI.

[pg1067]

Like fucking Rush isn't nerdy enough, we're now figuring out our....POOTI??

No, you’re figuring out your TOOTI.

I'm always messing with my TOOTI.

[jjrock88]

I received a C+ in math.  Lets get back to the rock.

[The Letter M]

I'd love to calculate my MOOTI but I just don't have the time, energy, or patience to do so. 

-Marc.

[King Postwhore]

I taught I taw a pooti tat!