Update on the supposed legal issues regarding the DT/Portnoy split

[Metabog]

Dream Theater OF FIRE.

[SnakeEyes]

There is always the fans who haven't had the chance to see ACOS, which includes me. ACOS, 8VM, and the SDOIT sections would bother me, personally. And honestly, DT should be able to play all their songs. If the legal issues are in fact true, then this is a very bad move on MP's part.

Yeah, I hear you.  I don't think I've seen ACOS live, either..... I don't remember.  Unless they played it on the SFAM tour.  I guess what I'm saying is that, if they HAVE to cut MP's songs, it's not a HUGE deal.  It's kind of like losing a finger tip instead of an arm, you know?  It'll hurt with ACOS, but .... I really think they have enough other, lesser played material to cover it.  It would really freshen up their set, actually.    

I'd like to say, for the record, that if JP left the band and sued the other guys and they couldn't play any more JP songs, DT would seriously bleed to death and there would be no more DT.  Kind of says something, in my opinion.  Not trying to bash MP, just making an observation.  

[nikatapi]

To be honest i think this has been blown way out of proportion, we don't know the details yet so it would be wise not to jump to rushed conclusions.
There are always 2 sides on a coin, and we do not know the demands and disagreements from each side.

What i'm trying to say is that the easy thing is to blame Mike and think that he doesn't want DT to continue without him, but have you thought that maybe the rest of DT didn't want to give him the royalties he deserves?

I have been annoyed many times with Mike's behaviour, but the truth is he really did a lot to make DT what they are from a business standpoint, and he deserves the credit for this. So it is not unreasonable for him to ask for the royalties or whatever he can claim, and to think that the name of the band is going to be fought for, i think is rediculous. I can't believe he would do such a thing.

[Setlist Scotty]

Seriously guys, this article was translated into German and then back into English, and ZeppDT (a lawyer) just highlighted why some of these assumptions most the thread have been operating on may be overblown. Let's all just take a hit on our inhalers and chill

DTF - Where 95% of the information comes from poorly translated interviews which is then assumed to be the worst case scenario.

Until I hear from an English source what is actually happening in detail, I'm indifferent to this. MP has done some low things since leaving the band, but some things have also been blown well out of proportion, so I'm not jumping on the bandwagon.

QFT

[Perpetual Change]

Seriously guys, this article was translated into German and then back into English, and ZeppDT (a lawyer) just highlighted why some of these assumptions most the thread have been operating on may be overblown. Let's all just take a hit on our inhalers and chill

DTF - Where 95% of the information comes from poorly translated interviews which is then assumed to be the worst case scenario.

Until I hear from an English source what is actually happening in detail, I'm indifferent to this. MP has done some low things since leaving the band, but some things have also been blown well out of proportion, so I'm not jumping on the bandwagon.

Yeah, but, the thing is we've had several posters claiming to be close to the band saying the same thing. One of them got banned, but the other one (I forget his name) was spot-on with a number of his predictions about Mangini. The thing is, this isn't just a poorly translated article but a poorly translated article that has several factors in common with what the rumor mill has been saying for awhile. And while I agree Mike's done a lot of low things since leaving the band, this would by far be the lowest. I really hope you're right and it isn't true.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, but, the thing is we've had several posters claiming to be close to the band saying the same thing. One of them got banned, but the other one (I forget his name) was spot-on with a number of his predictions about Mangini. The thing is, this isn't just a poorly translated article but a poorly translated article that has several factors in common with what the rumor mill has been saying for awhile. And while I agree Mike's done a lot of low things since leaving the band, this would by far be the lowest. I really hope you're right and it isn't true.

I never said it wasn't true, but I don't think there's enough reliable information to start ripping into MP for this at this stage. It seems there's too much relying on translations and second hand sources lately, and people are letting it accumulate into unhealthy levels of hate for MP. I'm not saying it's all unjustified, but I like to give the benefit of the doubt rather than assumptions of guilt based on profiling.
I know some people figure "well he did this bad thing, so he'd definitely do this bad thing too, so I'll assume it's true", but I find that unfair.

[SnakeEyes]

Blob is right. 

[Perpetual Change]

I never said it wasn't true, but I don't think there's enough reliable information to start ripping into MP for this at this stage. It seems there's too much relying on translations and second hand sources lately, and people are letting it accumulate into unhealthy levels of hate for MP. I'm not saying it's all unjustified, but I like to give the benefit of the doubt rather than assumptions of guilt based on profiling.
I know some people figure "well he did this bad thing, so he'd definitely do this bad thing too, so I'll assume it's true", but I find that unfair.

I guess I didn't really notice anyone making assumptions that the worst-case scenario was true.

[ariich]

I never said it wasn't true, but I don't think there's enough reliable information to start ripping into MP for this at this stage. It seems there's too much relying on translations and second hand sources lately, and people are letting it accumulate into unhealthy levels of hate for MP. I'm not saying it's all unjustified, but I like to give the benefit of the doubt rather than assumptions of guilt based on profiling.
I know some people figure "well he did this bad thing, so he'd definitely do this bad thing too, so I'll assume it's true", but I find that unfair.

I guess I didn't really notice anyone making assumptions that the worst-case scenario was true.

About half the people in this thread have, and certainly the people in the facebook group have. The point is, these snippets of a badly translated interview give us pretty much no information, but most people have just assumed that MP tried to sue the band, take the name, and/or stop them using songs where he wrote the lyrics.

The first two I just can't see happening. Sure he was upset about having to leave, but from the start he's held out hope that there might be some kind of reunion in the future, and he's not an idiot, I can't see any reason he would do something like that. As for the latter, it's technically possible, but I don't see what grounds he would have to do that, as "Dream Theater" wrote the music, so the band keep the rights to play it.

From a common sense perspective, the most likely legal action (which has been mentioned already) is the royalties situation, because only current members get paid a salary out the band's financial pot, and he may well have wanted more in royalties than would be standard because of all the work he's put in over the years, as he likes to remind us every chance he gets.

[Psy]

I take this with a pinch of salt but...oh dear.

[Perpetual Change]

Well, I guess we'll know soon enough. The fact that the post has been up all day rather than just deleted or taken down means Wey's probably waiting to let Mike respond. That seems to be how things go when this stuff happens, anyway.

[BlobVanDam]

Well, I guess we'll know soon enough. The fact that the post has been up all day rather than just deleted or taken down means Wey's probably waiting to let Mike respond. That seems to be how things go when this stuff happens, anyway.

Well if DT can't really respond in detail for legal reasons, I doubt MP could either. Hopefully he can at least clear up what it's not though.

[hefdaddy42]

Assuming this interview is legit and the translation is somewhat accurate, the only thing that is confirmed is that there is some legal stuff to work through.  This would be the case in any business relationship when a key person or partner leaves.  It doesn't necessarily mean a lawsuit at all.  It could just as well indicate negotiations on royalties between MP's lawyers and DT's lawyers.  In fact, if a lawsuit had been filed, it would be a matter of public record and we would know a lot more about this.  A lot of negative feelings toward MP in this thread could be completely misplaced.  

Again, until we know the exact points being discussed between the parties involved (and we may never), then there is no reason to fly off the handle.  That's all I'm saying.

And Silent Cody, I think the chances of seeing the 12-Step suite live are over anyway.  Legal challenge or no, that is MP's personal stuff, and it would be weird to play it live without him.  Same with The Best of Times.

[Perpetual Change]

Ok, well, until we actually can find out what the German article says I'm just going to scream the following until he stops travelling the world and sees this thread...


RUMBORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK

[Millais]

RUMBORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK

waiting for his always insightful analysis of situations 

although it's bad to speculate from tiny snippets, if he is asking for royalties I do find that pretty low to be honest. In fact, incredibly low.

[ariich]

RUMBORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK

waiting for his always insightful analysis of situations 

although it's bad to speculate from tiny snippets, if he is asking for royalties I do find that pretty low to be honest. In fact, incredibly low.

Why would that be low? Royalties are a standard part of the creative industries.

[Kotowboy]

 

Wait's for MP's respsonse :

" DT is my baby. I gave birth to it. Berklee was the delivery room and I was in labour for 25 years. But now my 4 ex wives have a new husband and all I want is shared custody over my baby at the weekend so we can go play hockey or baseball or something. . . Furthermore I never wanted to take the name Dream Theater away from the band...my lawyer said I should do it and I said my God you're right! But it wasn't my idea. "

[ariich]

[Jirpo]

Dream Theater OF FIRE.

[Millais]

Why would that be low? Royalties are a standard part of the creative industries.

yeah good point, absolutely no idea what i'm on about in that. woops.

guess i'd be annoyed if some DT songs written by MP weren't performed live again :/

[Metabog]

After pretty much every rumor so far everyone said "it's just a rumor, too little info", and every time it turned out to be spot on. I think it's time we came to terms with the fact that MP is doing everything we hoped he wasn't. He stopped being my hero a while before he left, and what he's doing now isn't helping at all. In fact I could say I don't care much for him anymore. Sorry.

[ariich]

After pretty much every rumor so far everyone said "it's just a rumor, too little info", and every time it turned out to be spot on.

No it hasn't, stop talking nonsense.

[BlobVanDam]

After pretty much every rumor so far everyone said "it's just a rumor, too little info", and every time it turned out to be spot on. I think it's time we came to terms with the fact that MP is doing everything we hoped he wasn't. He stopped being my hero a while before he left, and what he's doing now isn't helping at all. In fact I could say I don't care much for him anymore. Sorry.

As I said earlier, that is just not a good reason to assume guilt, especially when there is no real detail given to what exactly this is even all about. Some people have jumped right to the conclusion that Mike Portnoy is suing for usage rights to the name Dream Theater, which sounds like a complete load of rubbish to me. That doesn't even make sense.

Maybe he wants performance royalties for songs he wrote lyrics to? Maybe it's so he is allowed to continue to sell the Ytsejam bootlegs that bear the DT name? Maybe he wants his cut of the money DT has earned that goes into the band fund? Even ignoring translation issues, I'm just not seeing any real detail about what is happening at all. There's nothing to even "blame" for right now. People are jumping the gun big time here.

[Kyo]

Assuming this interview is legit and the translation is somewhat accurate, the only thing that is confirmed is that there is some legal stuff to work through.  This would be the case in any business relationship when a key person or partner leaves.  It doesn't necessarily mean a lawsuit at all.  It could just as well indicate negotiations on royalties between MP's lawyers and DT's lawyers.

Exactly. The whole thread is a joke at this point. There is no "update" to be found here and we still know nothing more than that there is some legal stuff to be worked through (which has always been obvious). So far it's just some interviewer's speculative questions being taken as some kind of confirmation. Total BS.

[Super Dude]

After pretty much every rumor so far everyone said "it's just a rumor, too little info", and every time it turned out to be spot on. I think it's time we came to terms with the fact that MP is doing everything we hoped he wasn't. He stopped being my hero a while before he left, and what he's doing now isn't helping at all. In fact I could say I don't care much for him anymore. Sorry.

As I said earlier, that is just not a good reason to assume guilt, especially when there is no real detail given to what exactly this is even all about. Some people have jumped right to the conclusion that Mike Portnoy is suing for usage rights to the name Dream Theater, which sounds like a complete load of rubbish to me. That doesn't even make sense.

Maybe he wants performance royalties for songs he wrote lyrics to? Maybe it's so he is allowed to continue to sell the Ytsejam bootlegs that bear the DT name? Maybe he wants his cut of the money DT has earned that goes into the band fund? Even ignoring translation issues, I'm just not seeing any real detail about what is happening at all. There's nothing to even "blame" for right now. People are jumping the gun big time here.

I think you know something we don't...

[BlobVanDam]

No, I know nothing more than anyone else here. Which is very little.

[Super Dude]

I know, I was just joking anyway.  I realize that probably wasn't clear though.

[KISS 76]

It's unfortunate with YtseJam Records... Mike has everything documented since the start of the band in his possession. He has compiled & written all the liner notes on each release so far. This would surely be a bitch to sort out legally on it's own? If it were to continue then things would have to be sorted out for fair payment to all involved plus payment to Mike for creating each release. They are a source of income for all of them & great rarities for us diehard fans... I truly hope things can be sorted out maturely to all their satisfaction & the next batch can be released. I remember Petrucci commenting that things with YtseJam Records shouldn't be affected at the time of the split?

[Metabog]

Fine. But for the record, for me the facts AND the rumors at this moment point to "DT good, MP bad", and nothing short of a response from MP or DT will change that for me. It's really that simple. I would gladly change my opinion, but he'd have to stop it with the wife analogies and admit that he left Dream Theater and it was a mistake. DT has kept on making amazing music (much better than before, judging from the samples), and that's what matters to me.

[DreamerTV]

So to take revenge Mike is now suing you for a lot of money, claiming share of ownership of the band's name"

James: It is correct that there are some legal issues which we need to sort out. Fact is that Mike took a lawyer and we have informed ours. We are are not allowed to share more"

John P: at the end theses are some private issues which we should not talk about in public. Fact is we the band own Dream Theater's name/brand

The only thing we have here for sure it's about legal issues. But we knew from day 1 that they were having. Here, what really get us to what we're discussing is the interviewer question: which it's not confermed at all by JLB; it's that is just an assumption we always had, so to read that on an official interview for the first time gave us the idea that maybe it's true. But maybe it is not.
In fact, i think it's not a case that JP mentioned the fact that the name and the brand is owned by the band. It's not possible, or thinkable, that MP is really sueing the band for using the name Dream Theater. And it's not possible for two reason: legally it would be a disaster, but formost it would turn in a irreparable public image damege, which despite all the frictions no one in the earth who wants to continue to have a succesful life would ruin in this way. The most plausible scenario is the royalties issue. If a "name issue" is there, i think, but it's only my hypothesis, it would be for future incomes from it's usage (records, merchandise, tours dvds etc etc).

[Perpetual Change]

After pretty much every rumor so far everyone said "it's just a rumor, too little info", and every time it turned out to be spot on.

No it hasn't, stop talking nonsense.

Maybe so, but people's speculations have been spot-on a lot more often then I think a lot of people would have liked/been willing to admit.

[ReaperKK]

Not true.  Wright wrote almost nothing on The Wall.  In fact, he was so coked, not only was he creatively dead from a musical standpoint, he had trouble playing his keyboard parts, which is why a good part of the keys on The Wall were played by session guys.  And while Gilmour is on record as saying he wrote more music than he was given credit for (along with Bob Ezrin), Waters still wrote the bulk of The Wall (lyrics AND music).

Yea I agree with him writing The Wall, I was referring more to pre-animals work.

[ariich]

After pretty much every rumor so far everyone said "it's just a rumor, too little info", and every time it turned out to be spot on.

No it hasn't, stop talking nonsense.

Maybe so, but people's speculations have been spot-on a lot more often then I think a lot of people would have liked/been willing to admit.

Well yeah because speculate about absolutely everything, so obviously some of it will be right.

[King Postwhore]

I don't see the big deal here.  This happens every time a member leaves.  There is always legal proceedings when it comes to royalties.

[Perpetual Change]

After pretty much every rumor so far everyone said "it's just a rumor, too little info", and every time it turned out to be spot on.

No it hasn't, stop talking nonsense.

Maybe so, but people's speculations have been spot-on a lot more often then I think a lot of people would have liked/been willing to admit.

Well yeah because speculate about absolutely everything, so obviously some of it will be right.

Yeah, agreed. But I mean, it's not just the whole "monkeys with a thousand type-writers will one-day produce shakespeare" thing. It's also because some people, for better or worse, pay attention to every little bit of news that comes across and really put a lot of thought into piecing it all together. Say what you want about people like that, but we've all been there at some point.