Coronavirus Thread v.2

[hunnus2000]

This is why I am for a central database that is accessed with a phone app or something for those that don't have a smart phone. It would greatly reduce forgeries. I wonder if they will test this dipshit for COVID?

[cramx3]

Mine also does not have a patient number, but on the Doses slot, it has a sticker with the information required (not hand written) similar to Chino's.

Same, and my name/birthday is hand written (extremely poorly) by myself.

I'm shocked they allowed that. When I went, I had to hand the nurse my driver's license and she used that to fill out my info. She handed me the vaccination card, and before giving me my license back said "please confirm that the info on your card is correct". I figured that was a security measure to prevent me from getting a vaccine and just putting down the name of someone I know who may not have wanted to get one.

I went to a mass vax site and there was like no checks at all.  I was kind of shocked.  But this whole CDC card is kind of BS to begin with.  I know getting the shots in arms was more important, but if these cards are going to be our access to do things, it needs to be better.

[Lonk]

This is why I am for a central database that is accessed with a phone app or something for those that don't have a smart phone. It would greatly reduce forgeries. I wonder if they will test this dipshit for COVID?

I don't know how useful it is outside of NY, but we have the "Excelsior pass", which is pretty much a vaccine passport (as some would call it). You download the app, put in your name, DOB and day of your second/last dose and if your information is in the system, and it's been 2 weeks since your second/last dose, it generates a "vaccine pass" for you. But again, I don't know if it would mean anything outside of NY and probably the surrounding states. I heard CA has a similar system but that it has not worked as well.

There should be a similar system for the nation, should not be very difficult to create.

[El Barto]

If there were going to be a unique identifier for vaccine recipients it would have riled up the "FREEDOM!" dipshits even further. I'm pretty sure they were trying to alienate as few people as possible. I also doubt they figured that there would be as many people resistant to the vaccine in the first place. The need to be able to prove your status might not have been on their radar.

I got mine at a CDC mass vaccination site, and my hunch is that they could confirm it if need be. They got my info during my registration, and they scanned a QR code both times. Somebody certainly could have assumed my identity, but at that point I doubt people were trying to scam the system. Remember that until services and places started demanding proof of vaccination these people wanted everybody to know how proudly unvaccinated they were.

[Ben_Jamin]

This thirty year old who was in pretty good health has died.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2021/08/texas-anti-mask-freedom-defender-dies-of-covid-at-age-30.html

A Texas man who led a group of “Freedom Defenders” against mask restrictions died of COVID-19 on Saturday at age 30.

Caleb Wallace left behind three children and a pregnant wife.

His wife, Jessica, announced her husband’s death on a GoFundMe page that had detailed his fight with COVID-19 the past few weeks.

“Caleb has peacefully passed on. He will forever live in our hearts and minds,” she wrote.

Wallace had been unconscious since Aug. 8, The San Angelo Standard-Times reported.

Wallace helped organize “The Freedom Rally” on July 4, 2020 — a gathering described in a flier as a peaceful protest by people “sick of the government being in control of our lives,” the Standard-Times reported.

He also founded “The San Angelo Freedom Defenders,” a group “to educate and empower citizens to make informed choices concerning local, statewide, and national policy and to encourage them to actively participate in their duty to secure God-given and constitutionally protected rights,” the group’s Facebook page stated.

Jessica Wallace said her husband got sick in late July, but “was so hard-headed.”

“He didn’t want to see a doctor, because he didn’t want to be part of the statistics with COVID tests,” she said.

He then tried unproven ivermectin — a livestock dewormer that has been denounced by the FDA — high doses of vitamin C, zinc aspirin and an inhaler, the Standard-Times reported.

Jessica Wallace told the newspaper she didn’t always share her husband’s views and that she wears a mask.


Pride is a hell of a drug. This dude left behind a wife and three daughters (and an unborn) because going to a doctor would be conceding he was wrong. He'd become one of the statistics that all of those evil scientists, doctors, and disease experts have been warning us about. It would mean everyone who convinced him to think as he did was wrong and that he was taken. The thought of admitting he was bamboozled and maybe not dying was worse to him than being unconscious for three weeks and ultimately leaving his family behind.   

Wait a minute. He didn't go see his doctor. That's the issue I have with this. Would he have went to see his doctor if he had a different type of pain unrelated to Covid? If he's that hard headed and stubborn, I don't think it would matter. And I would place the blame on him being stubborn to not go into the doctor. The issue would then be trust of the doctors to tell him the truth about his body. And if he would even listen to his doctors advice if he did go in.


What he did do though is die for his beliefs, regardless of whether we judge his beliefs as right or wrong.

And this is where I said earlier. If it is bad then natural selection will "SHOW" and prove to us if we are right or wrong, or somewhere in the middle.

[Stadler]

Loving attitudes and encouragement do not work on these people, neither does trying to reason with them or giving them facts or places to get facts.

Actually, you are factually wrong about that and I've posted numerous links to that effect.  It DOES work, over time. It's the very marginalization that you all are engaging in that is, in part, encouraging and stimulating the "rebelliousness" (for lack of a better word).  I've given links for that as well.   

We talk all the time about being people of science, and yet when the science rubs against the grain it seems that all of a sudden not that important.   Why do you get to ignore the science, but they don't?

How much time should I give these people?  Asking for a friend.  Since, you know, we don't have any time due to hospitals filling up right now and all.

Not like its ever happened before (it's sarcasm, but it's meant in good humor), but here's an instance where the IMMEDIATE FEEL GOOD solution doesn't serve the long term goal and vice versa.  So we find a way to co-exist.    Shoulda, woulda, coulda and all, but if we'd started the inclusion - I mean REAL inclusion, not the fakery that passes for it these days - back when I started talking about it, maybe we wouldn't have to have this conversation, but here we are.   So we move forward, and we try to balance the tactical and the strategic as best we can.  We have to at least do both, though, because the focus on the immediate is clearly not working IF you're main goal is to keep people alive AND you're not heartless enough to bask in the schadenfreude of people that think different than you do. 

[cramx3]

This is why I am for a central database that is accessed with a phone app or something for those that don't have a smart phone. It would greatly reduce forgeries. I wonder if they will test this dipshit for COVID?

I don't know how useful it is outside of NY, but we have the "Excelsior pass", which is pretty much a vaccine passport (as some would call it). You download the app, put in your name, DOB and day of your second/last dose and if your information is in the system, and it's been 2 weeks since your second/last dose, it generates a "vaccine pass" for you. But again, I don't know if it would mean anything outside of NY and probably the surrounding states. I heard CA has a similar system but that it has not worked as well.

There should be a similar system for the nation, should not be very difficult to create.

I looked into the app, because I need to provide proof for the concert in NYC this Friday but that app seems only for NY.  Looks like I'm bringing my card with me.

[Chino]

I folded my vaccine card down the middle because it was the only way to get it into my wallet. I hope that doesn't come back to bite me on the ass.

[Cool Chris]

I was very pleased with how the county set up the site that I got vaxxed at. And yes I always thought this card was more for my own personal records, not something that I would be called upon to show proof of having been vaccinated.

[cramx3]

Speaking of the card, what about potential boosters.  Will it be put down on the same card, it seems to have more slots for more doses on it?  What about those who laminated them?

I keep mine in a plastic sandwich ziplock bag.  I'll have to wear my cargo shorts to keep it safe in the pocket and where it's unlikely to fall out or get damaged.

[Stadler]

@ Bill's post ...

Look, in some regards you're absolutely right.  The outcome that most people want is to minimize or eliminate the risks of catching this.  How is that accomplished... vaccinations are ONE (the?) major tool in achieving that.  Getting those that are militantly opposed to take that step isn't working with the tactics that have been used for the past 18 months.  As Dr. Phil would say "how's that working for you?"  So you're right, deriding and marginalizing ain't working.

Honestly, that's a meaningful concession, and I appreciate that.  That's in large part where I've been going these last few days. Just acknowledge our role in where we are right now.

But at this point, as many others have said, I have very little sympathy for "them".  It's been 18+ months, and most that are anti-vax have been anti-everything related to COVID - ranging from 'hoax', to global conspiracy, to governmental fascism, to 'no big deal', to anti-mask / anti-lockdown / anti-distancing, to yada yada yada.  Some (many?) of claims that are often made are often ludicrous, and usually preposterous.  I will struggle to have any real sympathy for "them", and yes, I can and will be pissed because it is their actions that is the major contributor that is prolonging the damage to society, and impacting far too many people who ARE taking the steps that are necessary (not by my standards, by public health experts' standards) and reasonable (by virtue of the majority taking these steps - not *my* definition - lest you think this is about what *I* want again).

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.  I know the feeling every time some politician wants to spend my money to remove guns (against science), or "cancel" student debt, or some other concession to people making bad decisions and me having to bear the brunt of that.  So I certainly understand your point, even if I don't share the exact emotion (or don't respond the same way).   

Slightly changing lanes, I thought of it this way last night ... we've all heard/read stories and interviews over the last 18 months (usually recounted by Doctors and loved ones) expressing extreme regret and/or sorrow around patients / loved ones not taking the vaccine, or that they went to a crowded gathering, or that they never masked up.  I've yet to read a story of someone regretting that they did take the vax, or they did wear a mask, or that they have avoided crowded gatherings.

Just so you know I'm not taking advantage, you can look back and find it, but I wrote about such a person not two days ago.  "Regret" isn't the right word, necessarily, but "live in fear" is.

I also think the reaction is different; it might not be "regret" per se,  but there is some literature on the adverse effects of all this "doing the right thing":

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30460-8/fulltext
https://www.dovepress.com/psychological-impact-of-covid-19-isolation-and-quarantine-a-cross-sect-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-NDT

There are others that I don't have time to read through at the moment.

[Stadler]

To be fair, the government takes advice from the public health authorities and act accordingly. It's still a head scratcher, though.

I brought this idea up of purposely exposing children to covid a couple weeks ago as an idea.  I got this idea because my pediatrician dr friend has been saying he thinks this is a good idea because 99.9999% of the kids will be fine and that's worth it to get them back in classrooms to learn and grow.  I still don't know if I agree with that, but without having kids, this is not my battle.  I think it's interesting to see a government go this way though.

Look at the Israeli study that was posted here by me and someone else.  LONG TERM, in terms of levels of immunity ONLY, that is potentially one option.  The downside is the immediate - people WILL get sick and people WILL die - and the moral - people WILL get sick and people WILL die. If you're of the "even one death is too many" mindset, this is likely unacceptable.  But long term, this has the potential to build our collective immunity to the point where the comparisons to the common cold won't be so triggering.

[El Barto]

To be fair, the government takes advice from the public health authorities and act accordingly. It's still a head scratcher, though.

I brought this idea up of purposely exposing children to covid a couple weeks ago as an idea.  I got this idea because my pediatrician dr friend has been saying he thinks this is a good idea because 99.9999% of the kids will be fine and that's worth it to get them back in classrooms to learn and grow.  I still don't know if I agree with that, but without having kids, this is not my battle.  I think it's interesting to see a government go this way though.

Look at the Israeli study that was posted here by me and someone else.  LONG TERM, in terms of levels of immunity ONLY, that is potentially one option.  The downside is the immediate - people WILL get sick and people WILL die - and the moral - people WILL get sick and people WILL die. If you're of the "even one death is too many" mindset, this is likely unacceptable.  But long term, this has the potential to build our collective immunity to the point where the comparisons to the common cold won't be so triggering.

Or create conditions for a mutation to something far worse, right?

[Stadler]

To be fair, the government takes advice from the public health authorities and act accordingly. It's still a head scratcher, though.

I brought this idea up of purposely exposing children to covid a couple weeks ago as an idea.  I got this idea because my pediatrician dr friend has been saying he thinks this is a good idea because 99.9999% of the kids will be fine and that's worth it to get them back in classrooms to learn and grow.  I still don't know if I agree with that, but without having kids, this is not my battle.  I think it's interesting to see a government go this way though.

Look at the Israeli study that was posted here by me and someone else.  LONG TERM, in terms of levels of immunity ONLY, that is potentially one option.  The downside is the immediate - people WILL get sick and people WILL die - and the moral - people WILL get sick and people WILL die. If you're of the "even one death is too many" mindset, this is likely unacceptable.  But long term, this has the potential to build our collective immunity to the point where the comparisons to the common cold won't be so triggering.

Or create conditions for a mutation to something far worse, right?

Well, that's always a risk; with the levels of vaccination across the world being what they are (i.e. low) I imagine the time difference isn't as great as it might be when looking at a smaller subsection of the planet.   Either way it's ALWAYS going to be a risk; the vaccine doesn't wipe out the virus. 

[cramx3]

I'm not sure I like the idea of purposely infecting people, but I also believe everyone's going to get infected at some point. I'm not sure it's the best way to go, I'd be interested to see how it plays out in Norway.  It could set an example what not to do or what to do going forward.

Regardless, with the schools opening back up in the US, we basically are kind of doing it anyway. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Just so you know I'm not taking advantage, you can look back and find it, but I wrote about such a person not two days ago.  "Regret" isn't the right word, necessarily, but "live in fear" is.

I also think the reaction is different; it might not be "regret" per se,  but there is some literature on the adverse effects of all this "doing the right thing":

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30460-8/fulltext
https://www.dovepress.com/psychological-impact-of-covid-19-isolation-and-quarantine-a-cross-sect-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-NDT

There are others that I don't have time to read through at the moment.

And whether we like it or not. That science and data shows us that there is psychological (mental health) affects that are happening because of the decision and choice we humans made to lockdown and shut the world down. Those "psychological impacts of covid-19 isolation and quarantine" are the consequences for our decision and choice as humans to shut down our current system in which we operate.

Now that makes me wonder...Can a mental health issue be considered for vaccine exemption if it is shown to be affecting that persons mental health? This also can apply to future vaccinations if the person ended up getting mental health issues because of their "regrets" for the coercion that made them have to decide to get the vaccination.

So, who determines and has the final say to what one can do with one's own body? And what if you are coerced into doing things where you now suddenly have a grudge or a sort of vent up anger because you were required and coerced into a decision you did not willfully make?

Make your choice.
Accept the consequences.

So are we going to accept this consequence of our choice. Or are we going to downplay it and disregard it completely for some supposed virtue of "doing the right thing".

Just look at how the "vaccine passport" is being handled. And it's a complete mess, and there is so much that still needs to be done to consider it actually full-proof against fraud.

Apps are fine, but what will happen if the government dictates that boosters are mandatory as well, and are required to be considered "Fully Vaccinated" and that app denies entry if you do not have the boosters.


What I am waiting on, since our state is having their state fair still, and they are requiring proof of vaccination for entry and even hired employees whose job is to specifically check vaccination cards for accuracy and any sign of forgery (whatever that means) is to see if there are any cases. Now, if there are any cases that do develop or if anyone tests positive, then who is to blame for creating the spread if the unvaccinated are therefore eliminated by denying them entry all together, so they're out of the equation? Will people start to question the validity of the workers who were checking the vaccine passports? Would the workers then be blamed for not being spot on with identifying what is considered a "valid vaccination card" and allowing contaminated people into the venue?

This is why I do not understand why these places are also not requiring negative covid-19 tests if they're so concerned about the spread.

[Stadler]

I'm not sure I like the idea of purposely infecting people, but I also believe everyone's going to get infected at some point. I'm not sure it's the best way to go, I'd be interested to see how it plays out in Norway.  It could set an example what not to do or what to do going forward.

Regardless, with the schools opening back up in the US, we basically are kind of doing it anyway.

I definitely do NOT like the idea of purposefully infecting anyone; that's just playing with fire if you ask me.  And I'm not personally going to sit around and wait for nature to take it's course.  I'm vaccinated and I wear a mask in most instances.  But it's important to keep in mind that every COVIDIOT that doesn't die, is, in the same way that a broken clock is right twice a day, moving us inexorably closer to an optimal immunity position.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm not sure I like the idea of purposely infecting people, but I also believe everyone's going to get infected at some point. I'm not sure it's the best way to go, I'd be interested to see how it plays out in Norway.  It could set an example what not to do or what to do going forward.

Regardless, with the schools opening back up in the US, we basically are kind of doing it anyway.

Of course you don't purposely infect people and host infection parties. Unless, that person does want to and willfully attends one, then I don't see why not.

What you do is let it happen naturally by letting humans live life as intended. Meaning, letting life go on and letting humans continue living life as they were before this entire pandemic happened. Letting the natural processes of humans continue to operate. It's how us humans have developed our natural immunity throughout the centuries.

[El Barto]

I'm not sure I like the idea of purposely infecting people, but I also believe everyone's going to get infected at some point. I'm not sure it's the best way to go, I'd be interested to see how it plays out in Norway.  It could set an example what not to do or what to do going forward.

Regardless, with the schools opening back up in the US, we basically are kind of doing it anyway.

I definitely do NOT like the idea of purposefully infecting anyone; that's just playing with fire if you ask me.  And I'm not personally going to sit around and wait for nature to take it's course.  I'm vaccinated and I wear a mask in most instances.  But it's important to keep in mind that every COVIDIOT that doesn't die, is, in the same way that a broken clock is right twice a day, moving us inexorably closer to an optimal immunity position.

Acquired immunity from the virus and the vaccine aren't the same, though. Data suggest they target different parts of the virus, and that the mRNA vaccines will attack a broader range of mutations. Just because you fight off delta on your own doesn't mean you'll fight of lambda. The vaccine doesn't either, but it's mechanism does make it more likely. I'd say the covidiots are just pressing snooze on their broken clocks.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm not sure I like the idea of purposely infecting people, but I also believe everyone's going to get infected at some point. I'm not sure it's the best way to go, I'd be interested to see how it plays out in Norway.  It could set an example what not to do or what to do going forward.

Regardless, with the schools opening back up in the US, we basically are kind of doing it anyway.

I definitely do NOT like the idea of purposefully infecting anyone; that's just playing with fire if you ask me.  And I'm not personally going to sit around and wait for nature to take it's course.  I'm vaccinated and I wear a mask in most instances.  But it's important to keep in mind that every COVIDIOT that doesn't die, is, in the same way that a broken clock is right twice a day, moving us inexorably closer to an optimal immunity position.

Acquired immunity from the virus and the vaccine aren't the same, though. Data suggest they target different parts of the virus, and that the mRNA vaccines will attack a broader range of mutations. Just because you fight off delta on your own doesn't mean you'll fight of lambda. The vaccine doesn't either, but it's mechanism does make it more likely. I'd say the covidiots are just pressing snooze on their broken clocks.

Wasn't the vaccine supposedly protecting against future mutations a key selling point for taking the vaccines? And now that was proven to not be as accurate as they had hoped and now Boosters are required. Who is to say the Lambda variant, or Omega Moo, won't be like the delta variant and bypass the vaccines?

[cramx3]

Boosters so far are not required.  And vaccines do fend off mutations because it leads to a smaller viral load / infection.  So it helps immensely, and still does.

Although I see so much conflicting information as to whether a natural infection is better or worse for long term immunity vs. the vaccines.  Either way, you get some protection for some time.

Also, I probably shouldn't of used the word "purposely" before as sending kids to school is not purposely giving them the virus. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Boosters so far are not required.  And vaccines do fend off mutations because it leads to a smaller viral load / infection.  So it helps immensely, and still does.

Although I see so much conflicting information as to whether a natural infection is better or worse for long term immunity vs. the vaccines.  Either way, you get some protection for some time.

Also, I probably shouldn't of used the word "purposely" before as sending kids to school is not purposely giving them the virus.

Yeah, sending kids to school is not purposely giving them the virus I would think.

Now, if someone were to send their sick child to school, or a teacher/administrator were to show up to work sick, then maybe that could be considered "giving them" the virus. But you'd have to require testing in order to determine who is sick and who is not, and then this would bring back temperature checks as these tests are still not reliable due to false negatives that could potentially occur.

So we're left with what we have is sending kids to school and hoping for the best or closing them down again and doing online learning, and everyone would just be gleefully glad to go back to online learning.

[El Barto]

I'm not sure I like the idea of purposely infecting people, but I also believe everyone's going to get infected at some point. I'm not sure it's the best way to go, I'd be interested to see how it plays out in Norway.  It could set an example what not to do or what to do going forward.

Regardless, with the schools opening back up in the US, we basically are kind of doing it anyway.

I definitely do NOT like the idea of purposefully infecting anyone; that's just playing with fire if you ask me.  And I'm not personally going to sit around and wait for nature to take it's course.  I'm vaccinated and I wear a mask in most instances.  But it's important to keep in mind that every COVIDIOT that doesn't die, is, in the same way that a broken clock is right twice a day, moving us inexorably closer to an optimal immunity position.

Acquired immunity from the virus and the vaccine aren't the same, though. Data suggest they target different parts of the virus, and that the mRNA vaccines will attack a broader range of mutations. Just because you fight off delta on your own doesn't mean you'll fight of lambda. The vaccine doesn't either, but it's mechanism does make it more likely. I'd say the covidiots are just pressing snooze on their broken clocks.

Wasn't the vaccine supposedly protecting against future mutations a key selling point for taking the vaccines? And now that was proven to not be as accurate as they had hoped and now Boosters are required. Who is to say the Lambda variant, or Omega Moo, won't be like the delta variant and bypass the vaccines?

The boosters are because of waning immunity and not because of new variants. Natural immunity also seems to wane, BTW. As for the vaccine protecting against future mutations, it should. Simply put, it attacks a more generalized component of the virus, rather than a very specific form as the body's own immune system does. It's like picking off all Toyota brand cars, rather than just the bright red 4runners, like the one that ran over you last month. Here is a paper on the nuts and bolts, if you're interested.  https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/

Also, delta doesn't bypass the vaccines. The fact that delta is the dominant strain and the unvaccinated are dropping dead at a far great rate should pretty much cover that.

[JLa]

Our public health authorities published a report today, with some grim estimates for the coming weeks and months. An increasing amount of doctors are raising their concerns in the media. The prime minister has announced a press conference tomorrow, it'll be interesting to hear what will be the plan going forward.

I think the initial plan was to just let the pandemic play out over the coming weeks / months while we vaccinate as many as possible, the estimates have said we would be at 90% coverage (adults only) by the end of September. But this thing is simply spreading too fast, the health authorities were quoted today saying they did not anticipate today's situation.

After a year and a half I am really disappointed we are still in this mess of a situation. And now I hear there's another mutant on the horizon, a Columbian variant or something. Will this ever end.

[cramx3]

From the NY times daily e-mail (no link since its an email, sorry)

Since the pandemic began, Covid has often followed a regular — if mysterious — cycle. In one country after another, the number of new cases has often surged for roughly two months before starting to fall. The Delta variant, despite its intense contagiousness, has followed this pattern.

After Delta took hold last winter in India, caseloads there rose sharply for slightly more than two months before plummeting at a nearly identical rate. In Britain, caseloads rose for almost exactly two months before peaking in July. In Indonesia, Thailand, France, Spain and several other countries, the Delta surge also lasted somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 months.

And in the U.S. states where Delta first caused caseloads to rise, the cycle already appears to be on its downside. Case numbers in Arkansas, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi and Missouri peaked in early or mid-August and have since been falling

I've been saying for the last month or so that we should plateau eventually.  It just seems these waves are going to be the norm for awhile.  Even the CEO of my company stated this recently.  It's going to be the way of life for awhile until we get more people vaccinated.  The positive of all this and proof the vaccines work, is that even though cases are high, death are not at the level they once were.  And the stats show the deaths are almost all unvaccinated.  Get the vaccine if you haven't yet.

[bosk1]

Our public health authorities published a report today, with some grim estimates for the coming weeks and months. An increasing amount of doctors are raising their concerns in the media. The prime minister has announced a press conference tomorrow, it'll be interesting to hear what will be the plan going forward.

I think the initial plan was to just let the pandemic play out over the coming weeks / months while we vaccinate as many as possible, the estimates have said we would be at 90% coverage (adults only) by the end of September. But this thing is simply spreading too fast, the health authorities were quoted today saying they did not anticipate today's situation.

After a year and a half I am really disappointed we are still in this mess of a situation. And now I hear there's another mutant on the horizon, a Columbian variant or something. Will this ever end.

Hang in there, man.  I know it sounds bad over there.  But every place that it has looked bad in the past has normalized within a couple of months as well.  It'll take awhile to completely figure this thing out, and both good and bad decisions have been and will continue to be made along the way.  But we'll get through it.

[Stadler]

From the NY times daily e-mail (no link since its an email, sorry)

Since the pandemic began, Covid has often followed a regular — if mysterious — cycle. In one country after another, the number of new cases has often surged for roughly two months before starting to fall. The Delta variant, despite its intense contagiousness, has followed this pattern.

After Delta took hold last winter in India, caseloads there rose sharply for slightly more than two months before plummeting at a nearly identical rate. In Britain, caseloads rose for almost exactly two months before peaking in July. In Indonesia, Thailand, France, Spain and several other countries, the Delta surge also lasted somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 months.

And in the U.S. states where Delta first caused caseloads to rise, the cycle already appears to be on its downside. Case numbers in Arkansas, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi and Missouri peaked in early or mid-August and have since been falling

I've been saying for the last month or so that we should plateau eventually.  It just seems these waves are going to be the norm for awhile.  Even the CEO of my company stated this recently.  It's going to be the way of life for awhile until we get more people vaccinated.  The positive of all this and proof the vaccines work, is that even though cases are high, death are not at the level they once were.  And the stats show the deaths are almost all unvaccinated.  Get the vaccine if you haven't yet.

I was going to post the same thing.

[vtgrad]

In this forum, more so than anywhere else I frequent, I see rational discussion.  It's not seen everywhere, which may be part and parcel of our problem.

As hard as it is to process, I think that most sides of the argument are partially correct (exempting the truly absurd extreme anti-vax theories)... and I do think that we should be free to live and die by our own judgements and decisions as this situation rapidly changes.  The issue with some people that haven't been poked yet, is that they do not really understand what the vaccine is designed to do... basically, to keep you from hospitalization if/when you contract COVID and to lessen the amount of mutation (the virus is unstable and will continue to mutate even in the vaxed population, but those mutations shouldn't be wildfire like we're seeing now once more people are vaxed).  For my own personal journey, I had to source several different information sources and physician opinions to make my own decisions... and I was glad to be free to do so.  BTW... I receive the second dose on Friday 9-3.

Understanding that the vax isn't necessarily going to keep you from getting COVID, but keep you from life threating symptoms (in the majority of cases) is an important point that I think gets glossed over, if not outright missed.  I hear people say "if I can still get COVID, why force me to get poked" and I shake my head because the vaccine mechanics really have not been explained fully to a mass audience (in my opinion).  I suppose it's also possible that explanations have been ignored as well... though I think that's another discussion.

I still find it hard to believe that the the greater majority of the general public cannot/will-not understand that this is a rapidly evolving situation with a novel and unstable virus... sometimes the situation changes and scientists/physicians/etc should be given a bit more rope with regard to "what's working today may not work tomorrow".

While the 30-yr old's story is truly tragic for him and for his family, he made his own decision.  Who knows if he researched the vaccine for himself or if he had access/ability to research it... but he made his decision and sadly died by it.  His decision widowed his wife and left he children fatherless.  It was the wrong decision, in my opinion, but he was allowed to make a decision.  Perhaps someone else will learn from his poor decision.

When I think of forged Vaccination Cards, I'm astounded by the myriad ways that the human race can conceive to take advantage of it's own ignorance.

[El Barto]

Understanding that the vax isn't necessarily going to keep you from getting COVID, but keep you from life threating symptoms (in the majority of cases) is an important point that I think gets glossed over, if not outright missed.  I hear people say "if I can still get COVID, why force me to get poked" and I shake my head because the vaccine mechanics really have not been explained fully to a mass audience (in my opinion).  I suppose it's also possible that explanations have been ignored as well... though I think that's another discussion.

Yeah, those people I can at least relate to. That's ignorance rather than insanity, and they can probably be reasoned with. In those cases an intervention would probably help. At the same time, a whole lot of these numbskulls take it way further. Plenty of people think that not only can you still get sick after you take the vaccine, but that it's the vaccine that made you sick in the first place. These people are the problem, and they'll increasingly be in the majority of non-vaccinated. Frankly, your VT alum can't perfect the Sun Cannon fast enough for my liking.

[cramx3]

Understanding that the vax isn't necessarily going to keep you from getting COVID, but keep you from life threating symptoms (in the majority of cases) is an important point that I think gets glossed over, if not outright missed.  I hear people say "if I can still get COVID, why force me to get poked" and I shake my head because the vaccine mechanics really have not been explained fully to a mass audience (in my opinion).  I suppose it's also possible that explanations have been ignored as well... though I think that's another discussion.

I see this information everywhere so I'm not sure that's the reason peolpe don't understand, I think it's more about manipulation via social media.  You got your advice from a doctor.  When people are asked where they get their advice from, a lot say social media.  That is the problem.  Social media is driven by your own likes and interests.  If you follow an anti-vaxxer, the algorithms are going to show you more.  Eventually you never see the other side of the table.  SO many people fall into this trap.  Then when they see the actual reality they don't believe it because everything else they've seen/read has said the opposite. 

[Ben_Jamin]

In this forum, more so than anywhere else I frequent, I see rational discussion.  It's not seen everywhere, which may be part and parcel of our problem.

As hard as it is to process, I think that most sides of the argument are partially correct (exempting the truly absurd extreme anti-vax theories)... and I do think that we should be free to live and die by our own judgements and decisions as this situation rapidly changes.  The issue with some people that haven't been poked yet, is that they do not really understand what the vaccine is designed to do... basically, to keep you from hospitalization if/when you contract COVID and to lessen the amount of mutation (the virus is unstable and will continue to mutate even in the vaxed population, but those mutations shouldn't be wildfire like we're seeing now once more people are vaxed).  For my own personal journey, I had to source several different information sources and physician opinions to make my own decisions... and I was glad to be free to do so.  BTW... I receive the second dose on Friday 9-3.

Understanding that the vax isn't necessarily going to keep you from getting COVID, but keep you from life threating symptoms (in the majority of cases) is an important point that I think gets glossed over, if not outright missed.  I hear people say "if I can still get COVID, why force me to get poked" and I shake my head because the vaccine mechanics really have not been explained fully to a mass audience (in my opinion).  I suppose it's also possible that explanations have been ignored as well... though I think that's another discussion.

I still find it hard to believe that the the greater majority of the general public cannot/will-not understand that this is a rapidly evolving situation with a novel and unstable virus... sometimes the situation changes and scientists/physicians/etc should be given a bit more rope with regard to "what's working today may not work tomorrow".

While the 30-yr old's story is truly tragic for him and for his family, he made his own decision.  Who knows if he researched the vaccine for himself or if he had access/ability to research it... but he made his decision and sadly died by it.  His decision widowed his wife and left he children fatherless.  It was the wrong decision, in my opinion, but he was allowed to make a decision.  Perhaps someone else will learn from his poor decision.

When I think of forged Vaccination Cards, I'm astounded by the myriad ways that the human race can conceive to take advantage of it's own ignorance.

And I personally wouldn't assume these unvaccinated people did look at the data and still come to the conclusion to not take it, were not informed or did not understand.

If a person wants to continue living, even if they do catch Covid but are not worried about the symptoms or dying, why should we forbid a person from that?

Also, I do think there are people who are testing the government so to say. By denying a mandate, you test the authorative powers by seeing how they will discipline your disobedience. What lengths will they go and how far will they go to make you submit?

We are witnessing the answers to that. And it's a response to the cause of being disobedient.

I think it's telling how they had to coerce people to get vaccinated. By using their powers of how they control our basic necessities for survival like food, and shelter. In order for people to actually take their vaccines. It's why I ask, and wonder if there is data out there for how many took the vaccine because of their health, or because their job/livelihoods required it? This will show us the true intent and ethical morality of humans.

That humans have to be coerced to take something that is considered beneficial for all of humanity.

[Ben_Jamin]

Understanding that the vax isn't necessarily going to keep you from getting COVID, but keep you from life threating symptoms (in the majority of cases) is an important point that I think gets glossed over, if not outright missed.  I hear people say "if I can still get COVID, why force me to get poked" and I shake my head because the vaccine mechanics really have not been explained fully to a mass audience (in my opinion).  I suppose it's also possible that explanations have been ignored as well... though I think that's another discussion.

I see this information everywhere so I'm not sure that's the reason peolpe don't understand, I think it's more about manipulation via social media.  You got your advice from a doctor.  When people are asked where they get their advice from, a lot say social media.  That is the problem.  Social media is driven by your own likes and interests.  If you follow an anti-vaxxer, the algorithms are going to show you more.  Eventually you never see the other side of the table.  SO many people fall into this trap.  Then when they see the actual reality they don't believe it because everything else they've seen/read has said the opposite.

The only medical advice you should be taking is from your doctor. As they are the ones that should know your medical history and how your body is developing. They advise you on what to do and what not to do, as doing certain things can affect your health and could even make those health issues worse.
If people would have seen their doctor before taking the vaccines, I am sure that these adverse reactions wouldn't have been so high. As they would've likely been told by their doctor not too, as that could affect their current health and should not take it for their risk of an adverse effect is higher than the benefits of the vaccine.

The drug commercials for the shingles vaccine I saw even states to "consult your doctor and see if (shinglax, made up name) is right for you."

Which means, see your doctor before taking this because you could take it and have one of these adverse effects I spent the entire commercial naming can happen.

I personally feel people in general should be seeing their doctors more and telling them everything that is wrong or that doesn't feel right. Myself included in this sentiment because even though I haven't visited a doctor in how long for check-ups and do not have a good account of my health history, I am likely considered still healthy until I go in and tell them all that is wrong with me, and until I get diagnosed as having these health issues.

[El Barto]

Understanding that the vax isn't necessarily going to keep you from getting COVID, but keep you from life threating symptoms (in the majority of cases) is an important point that I think gets glossed over, if not outright missed.  I hear people say "if I can still get COVID, why force me to get poked" and I shake my head because the vaccine mechanics really have not been explained fully to a mass audience (in my opinion).  I suppose it's also possible that explanations have been ignored as well... though I think that's another discussion.

I see this information everywhere so I'm not sure that's the reason peolpe don't understand, I think it's more about manipulation via social media.  You got your advice from a doctor.  When people are asked where they get their advice from, a lot say social media.  That is the problem.  Social media is driven by your own likes and interests.  If you follow an anti-vaxxer, the algorithms are going to show you more.  Eventually you never see the other side of the table.  SO many people fall into this trap.  Then when they see the actual reality they don't believe it because everything else they've seen/read has said the opposite.

The only medical advice you should be taking is from your doctor. As they are the ones that should know your medical history and how your body is developing. They advise you on what to do and what not to do, as doing certain things can affect your health and could even make those health issues worse.
If people would have seen their doctor before taking the vaccines, I am sure that these adverse reactions wouldn't have been so high. As they would've likely been told by their doctor not too, as that could affect their current health and should not take it for their risk of an adverse effect is higher than the benefits of the vaccine.

The drug commercials for the shingles vaccine I saw even states to "consult your doctor and see if (shinglax, made up name) is right for you."

Which means, see your doctor before taking this because you could take it and have one of these adverse effects I spent the entire commercial naming can happen.

I personally feel people in general should be seeing their doctors more and telling them everything that is wrong or that doesn't feel right. Myself included in this sentiment because even though I haven't visited a doctor in how long for check-ups and do not have a good account of my health history, I am likely considered still healthy until I go in and tell them all that is wrong with me, and until I get diagnosed as having these health issues.

To be honest, I see a lot of doctors, and I'm not sure I'd trust any of them to be up on the medical research. Like the rest of us they largely rely on others to do the research and offer best practices. I have no doubt my [former] PCP knows far more about T cells and protein spikes than I do, and how they may effect my immune system, but I don't know as he's actually done any research to determine a specific vaccine's applicability to my specific situation. Doctors specialize for a reason, and most of the doctors we interact with have a broad, general knowledge, but that comes at the expense of greater detail across the spectrum. They're getting their intel from the same virologists and immunologists we are. They just understand it a bit better.

[Chino]

What should this doctor's punishment be? Does this count as fraud?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2021/09/01/mask-exemptions-signed-chiropractor-district-revises-qualifications/5684533001/

A chiropractor in Venice, Florida, provided more than 500 medical exemption forms for children attending Sarasota County Schools who did not want to wear a mask.

Dan Busch, a chiropractor at Twin Palms Chiropractic, has signed roughly one-third of all medical exemption forms turned in district-wide, district spokesman Craig Maniglia said Wednesday morning.

Various media reports over the last week have shown families in lines wrapping around Busch's practice, and some families have told news reporters that they simply grabbed a pre-signed form off of the counter.

[cramx3]

Understanding that the vax isn't necessarily going to keep you from getting COVID, but keep you from life threating symptoms (in the majority of cases) is an important point that I think gets glossed over, if not outright missed.  I hear people say "if I can still get COVID, why force me to get poked" and I shake my head because the vaccine mechanics really have not been explained fully to a mass audience (in my opinion).  I suppose it's also possible that explanations have been ignored as well... though I think that's another discussion.

I see this information everywhere so I'm not sure that's the reason peolpe don't understand, I think it's more about manipulation via social media.  You got your advice from a doctor.  When people are asked where they get their advice from, a lot say social media.  That is the problem.  Social media is driven by your own likes and interests.  If you follow an anti-vaxxer, the algorithms are going to show you more.  Eventually you never see the other side of the table.  SO many people fall into this trap.  Then when they see the actual reality they don't believe it because everything else they've seen/read has said the opposite.

The only medical advice you should be taking is from your doctor. As they are the ones that should know your medical history and how your body is developing. They advise you on what to do and what not to do, as doing certain things can affect your health and could even make those health issues worse.
If people would have seen their doctor before taking the vaccines, I am sure that these adverse reactions wouldn't have been so high. As they would've likely been told by their doctor not too, as that could affect their current health and should not take it for their risk of an adverse effect is higher than the benefits of the vaccine.

The drug commercials for the shingles vaccine I saw even states to "consult your doctor and see if (shinglax, made up name) is right for you."

Which means, see your doctor before taking this because you could take it and have one of these adverse effects I spent the entire commercial naming can happen.

I personally feel people in general should be seeing their doctors more and telling them everything that is wrong or that doesn't feel right. Myself included in this sentiment because even though I haven't visited a doctor in how long for check-ups and do not have a good account of my health history, I am likely considered still healthy until I go in and tell them all that is wrong with me, and until I get diagnosed as having these health issues.

To be honest, I see a lot of doctors, and I'm not sure I'd trust any of them to be up on the medical research. Like the rest of us they largely rely on others to do the research and offer best practices. I have no doubt my [former] PCP knows far more about T cells and protein spikes than I do, and how they may effect my immune system, but I don't know as he's actually done any research to determine a specific vaccine's applicability to my specific situation. Doctors specialize for a reason, and most of the doctors we interact with have a broad, general knowledge, but that comes at the expense of greater detail across the spectrum. They're getting their intel from the same virologists and immunologists we are. They just understand it a bit better.

It should also be noted that doctors are people too and can show bias and be manipulated just like anyone else.  Regardless, it's still pretty good idea to get information from your doctor over randoms on social media.