2019 NFL Thread v. Chiefs are Champs, Missouri rules the sports world

[El Barto]

Damn, will Wentz ever be able to play in a playoff game?

[TAC]

Is he even really that highly regarded? If everyone (outside of NO, maybe) thinks he is overrated, he isn't overrated, because no one is overrating him.

I think if you ask most people who are the Top 3-5 coaches in the league, Payton would be on most people's lost.

[KevShmev]

Totally agree about Payton.  Great OC, but not a great head coach.  He has had Brees for 14 seasons now and has failed to win a playoff game in eight of them.  That's just not good enough.  And today they looked unprepared and lethargic, which is all about coaching.  But hey, at least they have another officiating non-call on which they can blame the loss rather than taking responsibility that they just weren't good enough.

[KevShmev]

Oh, and did Pete Carroll slip the refs some cash today?

Mostly kidding, but Clowney got away with drilling Wentz with a helmet to helmet and knocking him out of the game, and then a Seahawk defender hit McNown late just before the end of the half and there was no flag.  And just before that, Wilson was hit a touch late and the flag came flying out quickly.  I am rooting for the Seahawks, but these calls are really lopsided in their favor.

[Ben_Jamin]

Oh, and did Pete Carroll slip the refs some cash today?

Mostly kidding, but Clowney got away with drilling Wentz with a helmet to helmet and knocking him out of the game, and then a Seahawk defender hit McNown late just before the end of the half and there was no flag.  And just before that, Wilson was hit a touch late and the flag came flying out quickly.  I am rooting for the Seahawks, but these calls are really lopsided in their favor.

Well, they did miss an obvious Off Sides call against the Eagles when the Hawks were on the 30 with a 3rd down.

[Stadler]

Totally agree about Payton.  Great OC, but not a great head coach.  He has had Brees for 14 seasons now and has failed to win a playoff game in eight of them.  That's just not good enough.  And today they looked unprepared and lethargic, which is all about coaching.  But hey, at least they have another officiating non-call on which they can blame the loss rather than taking responsibility that they just weren't good enough.

It's always been my understanding that you can hand-check, but if you extend the arm you're going to get flagged.  He extended the arm.   Both Tony Dungy and Rodney Harrison were unequivocal that was a bad no-call.    Harrison was animated about it.  I happen to agree, though I'm partial to the Saints.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Why didn't Seattle drop 40 on this team? They dodged a bullet. So proud of this team but you can only get so far running on fumes.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Why didn't Seattle drop 40 on this team? They dodged a bullet. So proud of this team but you can only get so far running on fumes.

And now they have to go play the Packers in Green Bay. I don't think they stand a chance.

[KevShmev]

 It's always been my understanding that you can hand-check, but if you extend the arm you're going to get flagged.  He extended the arm.   Both Tony Dungy and Rodney Harrison were unequivocal that was a bad no-call.    Harrison was animated about it.  I happen to agree, though I'm partial to the Saints.

Dungy and Harrison are defensive guys and will usually side with the defense in these close calls, but based on what I saw (I didn't see all of the game, probably 60% of it), they were letting a lot go on both sides in regards to PI, so to suddenly make that ticky tack call at the end there would have been going against how the rest of the game was called, IMO.  I'm sure I'd be mad as hell if I were a Saints fan, but as a neutral observer who just wanted a good game, I was not bothered by the last play not being called PI.

[Stadler]

I don't mean this to sound like a dick but say it more for conversation purposes, but my feelings on a call don't have that much to do with "what team it is".   And it also needs to be said: it should never have come to that.  The Saints blew a field goal, should have done better than three runs for loss on the goal-line stand, and should not have fumbled the ball away on the Vikes' 20.

[dparrott]

Oh, and did Pete Carroll slip the refs some cash today?

Mostly kidding, but Clowney got away with drilling Wentz with a helmet to helmet and knocking him out of the game, and then a Seahawk defender hit McNown late just before the end of the half and there was no flag.  And just before that, Wilson was hit a touch late and the flag came flying out quickly.  I am rooting for the Seahawks, but these calls are really lopsided in their favor.

Yea I can't deny the Hawks got some help with this one. 

[Cool Chris]

I'll predict another road win with the Seahawks winning another close one, 13-10.

Was pretty close. On to GB, and a loss I anticipate. 

[Dream Team]

Why didn't Seattle drop 40 on this team? They dodged a bullet. So proud of this team but you can only get so far running on fumes.

Because their stupid asshole HC refuses to let Wilson cut loose and insists on putting him in 3rd and 10 every series. If they cut out the conservative old school bullshit Wilson would dice teams apart.

FWIW his running backs averaged 1.2 and 1.1 yards per carry today.

[bosk1]

Wow, I went 1-3 with my picks.    Oh well.

Next week:

Vikings @ 49ers
Titans @ Ravens
Texans @ Chiefs
Seahawks @ Packers

I wish I felt something surprising there.  But I really think all the home teams will win next week.

[KevShmev]

I think all of the home teams will win as well.  Never underestimate the importance of getting a bye.  Seattle is the most likely to win, largely because they always keep it close and know how to win at the end, and partially because I am just not super impressed with the Packers lately, although it would be funny after years of not being able to make it back to the Super Bowl when he was playing the QB position as well as anyone, if Rodgers made it back this year after having merely a "very good" season (by his standards).

[bosk1]

I know I said this about the Saints as well, but I just don't see any team going into Lambeau and winning there, especially a team as depleted as the Seahawks. 

[jammindude]

I’m extremely skeptical of our chances against GB. But I will say that Rodgers did NOT play well in the 2nd half of the season. I literally was forced to drop him in my fantasy league.

If Rodgers struggles, we have a shot.

Then again, he will be coming off a week’s rest.

[jammindude]

I also have a bad feeling about that Houston/KC game.

I’m actually really pulling for KC because 1) I like Mahomes 2) I feel sorry for the Chiefs who haven’t been in a SB for 50 years and 3) I think a Ravens/Chiefs AFC Championship game would be the game of the century and the beginning of a “new blood” rivalry. With the old dynasties dying out (Brady, Brees, Big Ben...etc) a Mahomes/Jackson showdown just feels like it could be a matchup that gets repeated several times in the coming years.

All that being said, that’s the game that feels the most ripe for a possible upset.

[Architeuthis]

I know I said this about the Saints as well, but I just don't see any team going into Lambeau and winning there, especially a team as depleted as the Seahawks.

I was hoping the Seahawks would be playing the 49ers next week. I think it will be harder for them to pull off a win in Lambeau than in Levi's (Santa Clara), and that's saying a LOT!
 

[dparrott]

So the refs favored the Seahawks, eh?
11 penalties, most in a WC game since 2009
114 penalty yards, most in a WC game since 1999
Yea the refs missed a big one, but there ya go.

[Stadler]

Kind of tired of the "refs are biased" conversation.   It just seems week-to-week there are bad calls in every game.  That two or three bad calls all happen to go one way in any one particular game isn't statistically significant to understand whether any particular team is favored or not. 

The Pats - widely accused here of being "referee/league pets", are not in the TOP TEN of teams for penalties called FOR them (i.e. against the other team).  They are 14th, actually.    They are not in the TOP FIVE of teams for penalties called AGAINST them (they are six) but there is at least some argument that coaching plays a role there. It should be noted that the middle of the pack is, in fact, a pack; 20 penalties separates the Pats from the leading team, but 20 more penalties drops them all the way to the bottom ten in the league.   It should also be noted that of the top five teams, NOT ONE made the playoffs. 

Seattle?  Fifth WORST in the league for penalties called FOR them (meaning, only four other teams had fewer penalties called against their opponents).  They are tied for fifteenth for penalties called against them (basically middle of the pack).

Teams that have beef?  The Saints and the Raiders.   The Raiders are the third most penalized team in the league, and New Orleans is fourth.   The Raiders are the second-least recipient of penalties (that is, penalties called against their opponent) and the Saints fourth.   

[El Barto]

Kind of tired of the "refs are biased" conversation.   It just seems week-to-week there are bad calls in every game.  That two or three bad calls all happen to go one way in any one particular game isn't statistically significant to understand whether any particular team is favored or not. 

The Pats - widely accused here of being "referee/league pets", are not in the TOP TEN of teams for penalties called FOR them (i.e. against the other team).  They are 14th, actually.    They are not in the TOP FIVE of teams for penalties called AGAINST them (they are six) but there is at least some argument that coaching plays a role there. It should be noted that the middle of the pack is, in fact, a pack; 20 penalties separates the Pats from the leading team, but 20 more penalties drops them all the way to the bottom ten in the league.   It should also be noted that of the top five teams, NOT ONE made the playoffs. 

Seattle?  Fifth WORST in the league for penalties called FOR them (meaning, only four other teams had fewer penalties called against their opponents).  They are tied for fifteenth for penalties called against them (basically middle of the pack).

Teams that have beef?  The Saints and the Raiders.   The Raiders are the third most penalized team in the league, and New Orleans is fourth.   The Raiders are the second-least recipient of penalties (that is, penalties called against their opponent) and the Saints fourth.

Somebody wrote a pretty good article about the Patriots and penalties a few years back. Al Riveron and several other officiating bigwigs all had the exact same thing to say about it. No team in the league puts anywhere near as much thought into it as NE. At the beginning of the year they go to each team to explain what's new and what's changed, and Bill spends a day grilling them about how it will be called. "When you say 5 yards do you mean ~5 yds? Up to 7 yds or barely 4?" He's the only coach that really drills into it. The rest just take notes and move on. That knowledge works its way down to the position coaches who drill it constantly.

A fascinating takeaway from that article was that the referees often make obvious decisions for the coaches to save time. If the decision is 1st and goal at the 7 or 3rd and 24 at midfield it's pretty clear what the coach is going to do. I was always curious how that worked. Thirty-one coaches in the league are fine with that arrangement. One is not. 

[KevShmev]

I also have a bad feeling about that Houston/KC game.

I’m actually really pulling for KC because 1) I like Mahomes 2) I feel sorry for the Chiefs who haven’t been in a SB for 50 years and 3) I think a Ravens/Chiefs AFC Championship game would be the game of the century and the beginning of a “new blood” rivalry. With the old dynasties dying out (Brady, Brees, Big Ben...etc) a Mahomes/Jackson showdown just feels like it could be a matchup that gets repeated several times in the coming years.

All that being said, that’s the game that feels the most ripe for a possible upset.

KC is favored by 10, which seems like way too many points, even with Andy Reid teams historically playing great off of a bye (regular season and playoffs).  Maybe Vegas is taking the "Bill O'Brien is a doofus" factor into account.

[El Barto]

Christ, what would the Over/Under look like in a Chiefs-Ravens playoff game? Looks like the previous record was 64 (blown out by the third quarter by the Chiefs-Rams).

[King Postwhore]

Christ, what would the Over/Under look like in a Chiefs-Ravens playoff game? Looks like the previous record was 64 (blown out by the third quarter by the Chiefs-Rams).

That will be a hell of a game if both get the the AFC Championship Game.

[bosk1]

Not many are giving the Titans or Texans much of a chance.  But I think that is understandable.  To the extent there is much drama or potential for an upset this weekend, I think it is more likely in the NFC (although still fairly unlikely).

[pg1067]

Also watched the final drive of SB36, and Madden spends the first half of the drive with "You're gonna wanna just run the clock out here and go to OT, no point trying to score."

I remember that vividly, and my reaction at the time was, "what the fuck are you talking about?!"  It seemed absurd.  The Pats had a minute and a half (albeit no timeouts) and only needed to get into field goal range.  I don't remember where they got the kickoff, but that only amounted to 50 yards or so.  The alternative was to take a 50/50 chance that "the best show on turf" would get the ball to open overtime with the same "only need to get into field goal range" situation.

I'm happy that 3 of the 4 games this weekend were entertaining.  Unfortunately, I fear we're going to get a bunch of blowouts by the 1 & 2 seeds.

[El Barto]

"They" are saying Jerry has already decided on McCarthy. In some ways this seems like a very good move. In others not so much. With the exception of Parcells and Johnson, Dallas has always preferred "player's coaches," and from what I gather McCarthy qualifies. I think this is a Dallas team that needs more discipline (much like all of the other Dallas teams not coached by Parcells and Johnson). The SI write-up about MM and St. Rodgers didn't paint a real good picture of McCarthy, and I'm not sold on his ability to come in here with an established group and wrangle them all in. Having said that, Dallas has a very talented offense that's underachieving, and MM seems like a very good choice to get them all on the same page. It's hard to argue with what he did in GB, often times with far less than what he's got available here. And to be honest, I don't recall ever thinking that he didn't have his Packers teams ready to play, which certainly looked like the case at times with Garrett's Cowboys.

[cramx3]

As a Giants fan, its concerning that both Dallas and Washington found their coaches and both are solid NFL coaches.  I don't really have an opinion on who I want to coach the Giants, but I would have been happy with either of those two hires. 

[T-ski]

"They" are saying Jerry has already decided on McCarthy. In some ways this seems like a very good move. In others not so much. With the exception of Parcells and Johnson, Dallas has always preferred "player's coaches," and from what I gather McCarthy qualifies. I think this is a Dallas team that needs more discipline (much like all of the other Dallas teams not coached by Parcells and Johnson). The SI write-up about MM and St. Rodgers didn't paint a real good picture of McCarthy, and I'm not sold on his ability to come in here with an established group and wrangle them all in. Having said that, Dallas has a very talented offense that's underachieving, and MM seems like a very good choice to get them all on the same page. It's hard to argue with what he did in GB, often times with far less than what he's got available here. And to be honest, I don't recall ever thinking that he didn't have his Packers teams ready to play, which certainly looked like the case at times with Garrett's Cowboys.

Bolded is quite an odd statement. The Packers were loaded on offense almost every year McCarthy was the coach, plus Aaron Rodgers.  McCarthy's biggest problem was he didn't evolve the offense much from when he started to when he was let go.  He never was one to run the ball either, which is Dallas' strong suit. 

Don't get the hire personally.

[El Barto]

"They" are saying Jerry has already decided on McCarthy. In some ways this seems like a very good move. In others not so much. With the exception of Parcells and Johnson, Dallas has always preferred "player's coaches," and from what I gather McCarthy qualifies. I think this is a Dallas team that needs more discipline (much like all of the other Dallas teams not coached by Parcells and Johnson). The SI write-up about MM and St. Rodgers didn't paint a real good picture of McCarthy, and I'm not sold on his ability to come in here with an established group and wrangle them all in. Having said that, Dallas has a very talented offense that's underachieving, and MM seems like a very good choice to get them all on the same page. It's hard to argue with what he did in GB, often times with far less than what he's got available here. And to be honest, I don't recall ever thinking that he didn't have his Packers teams ready to play, which certainly looked like the case at times with Garrett's Cowboys.

Bolded is quite an odd statement. The Packers were loaded on offense almost every year McCarthy was the coach, plus Aaron Rodgers.  McCarthy's biggest problem was he didn't evolve the offense much from when he started to when he was let go.  He never was one to run the ball either, which is Dallas' strong suit. 

Don't get the hire personally.

I always figured he was never one to run the ball because he never had an elite RB. Moreover, I don't know as GB has ever had an O-line as good as what he's gong to have here. GB was always St. Rodgers and whoever he wanted to throw the ball to. Here he's inheriting a pretty well rounded team.

And a defense.

[KevShmev]

McCarthy seems like an odd hire to me as well.  I always thought the GB play calling had zero imagination his last few years there; it always seemed like, have Rodgers drop back and wait for someone to get open.  On the flip side, I am sure he will get along a lot better with Prescott, who seems coachable, than he did with Rodgers, who, for all of his greatness, is an arrogant dick who thinks he knows more than everyone else.

[El Barto]

McCarthy seems like an odd hire to me as well.  I always thought the GB play calling had zero imagination his last few years there; it always seemed like, have Rodgers drop back and wait for someone to get open.  On the flip side, I am sure he will get along a lot better with Prescott, who seems coachable, than he did with Rodgers, who, for all of his greatness, is an arrogant dick who thinks he knows more than everyone else.

Yeah, I have to wonder how much of the play calling you can put on McCarthy since Rodgers seemed to do his own thing anyway. Didn't Rodgers pretty much own up to essentially calling his own plays because he didn't like McCarthy's?

[T-ski]

McCarthy's last couple of seasons were a mess in Green Bay.  Did Rodgers start calling his own plays? I don't know and really don't care, but I do know the offense, which was McCarthy's own, wasn't working anymore and that falls on McCarthy not Rodgers.

[King Postwhore]

Rodgers might have tuned him out.  If you don't have your QB buying in your dead on the water as a coach.