Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[cramx3]

I think it was continuum as well, and agreed about ARoP, the beebot seems like it doesn't fit with the song.  Otherwise I have no problem with the use of the Ipad, it's really cool, just needs to go along with the music.

[Onno]

The Octavarium solo is continuum, I'm pretty sure. Personally I love that intro, the one on Score is even better.

[Tomislav95]

I've grown to like that continuum intro, too. I remember skipping it before but now it's one of my favorite parts of the song.

[Prog Snob]

The Octavarium solo is continuum, I'm pretty sure. Personally I love that intro, the one on Score is even better.

The intro was on the continuum, but I thought the solo during the song was on the analog keyboard?

[rumborak]

I personally love that intro. Great use of the Continuum.

[Skeever]

Aside from a couple less than great moments, Octavarium is one of the most tasteful and restrained Dream Theater albums.

[As I Am]

Aside from Never Enough (ok) and Sacrificed Sons (nice intrumental in middle) , I think 8V is damn near great!

[Train of Naught]

For real? Sacrificed Sons is my favorite song on 8VM!

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

1. I love Mangini's snare sound on DT12. It sound so....I dunno how to describe it.
2. Portnoy's vocals are one of the best things he brought. It sets the mood, especially on Nightmare.
3. This Dying souls ending is one of the best instrumentai works.
4. BC&SL is one of their strongest albums. Talks about real-life situations and is some times heartwrenching to listen to.
5. I will forever serve Dark master and he is awesome.
6. All of Rudess' synth sounds great.
7. Portnoy is the weakest song writer.
8. Labrie is the best fit for DT.
9. Bosk is awesome.
10. Sampling is integral on DT songs. (I love sampling)
11. TCOT has the best closer.
12. Labrie is the most talented DT song writer.
13.  There are no songs that seem too long. Everything has its length for reason.

[cramx3]

2. Portnoy's vocals are one of the best things he brought. It sets the mood, especially on Nightmare.

Interesting and definitely controversial.  I didn't really dislike his vocals, but I felt it unnecessary.

10. Sampling is integral on DT songs. (I love sampling)

I cannot stand the samples.  I really dislike it in almost all music.  Sometimes they work, most times they don't for me.

[vbrodrigues95]

1 - I really like Raw Dog
2 - I really like BC&SL

[cramx3]

1 - I really like Raw Dog
2 - I really like BC&SL

Agreed to both 

BC&SL gets a lot of flack, but it's great.  Raw Dog just needs to be taken for what it is, a video game track that is just a fun instrumental, nothing more.

[BlobVanDam]

I personally love that intro. Great use of the Continuum.

Me too.


And that sound has zero to do with iPads or apps. Bebot was his first use of an app sound on an album a couple of years later.

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

2. Portnoy's vocals are one of the best things he brought. It sets the mood, especially on Nightmare.

Interesting and definitely controversial.  I didn't really dislike his vocals, but I felt it unnecessary.

10. Sampling is integral on DT songs. (I love sampling)

I cannot stand the samples.  I really dislike it in almost all music.  Sometimes they work, most times they don't for me.

For the vocals, I don't understand the hate. It makes the mood more darker and you could actually feel the song sometimes. In POW, doesn't his vocals seem pretty bad ass?

And the sampling. I'm assuming your favorites are Voices,  HTF, and SDV? Just a guess

[pcs90]

Oh my!

1. I love Mangini's snare sound on DT12. It sound so....I dunno how to describe it.

I can describe it for you. terrible, awful, lifeless, mechanical, compressed, triggered...ok I'm done.
In all fairness on the HD version it's not as bad (still mechanical but it at least blends a little better) but on the regular album it drove me insane when I first heard it, haha.

2. Portnoy's vocals are one of the best things he brought. It sets the mood, especially on Nightmare.

Just curious, what mood do his vocals on Nightmare set for you? For me when that part comes up I cannot take the song seriously. I feel like I'm listening to a comedy album or something.

3. This Dying souls ending is one of the best instrumentai works.

If technical means "best" then that's probably true, it is pretty crazy! I would probably rank it near the bottom but I totally see why people like this one. To give you an idea, I think the solos at the beginning are 100 times better.

4. BC&SL is one of their strongest albums. Talks about real-life situations and is some times heartwrenching to listen to.

While I don't think it is near their best at all it has some amazing moments for me. The middle part of Nightmare is beautiful, JP's outro solo on Best of Times is one of his best and most emotional, and TCOT has a lot of amazing instrumental sections, like the end you mentioned later. I think a lot of the lyrics are pretty bad but those sections really make up for it. Plus I love their cover of Odyssey (much more than the original).

5. I will forever serve Dark master and he is awesome.

We really do have opposite tastes in songs lol

10. Sampling is integral on DT songs. (I love sampling)

I love it in certain songs, especially SDV (that is the absolute best use of samples in any song IMO) but most of the time it doesn't fit well, at least to me.

12. Labrie is the most talented DT song writer.

I would love for him to write more for DT. He's written some songs that rank very highly for me.

[bosk1]

2. Portnoy's vocals are one of the best things he brought. It sets the mood, especially on Nightmare.

I agree mostly, with the exception being the "Rawwwwrrrrr!" at the end of his vocal section on Nightmare.  I like the rest of the section, but that part just sounds silly.

7. Portnoy is the weakest song writer.

In fairness though, most drummers aren't songwriters at all, or at least not the best or primary songwriter in a band.  But Mike really has a talent for song arrangements, even if people may feel that some of his arrangements may have gotten a bit stale toward the end of his time in DT.  I feel like he really brought a lot to the table in that department.

9. Bosk is awesome.

Wait...since when is that controversial??

12. Labrie is the most talented DT song writer.

Okay, I have to disagree here.  James doesn't really write songs in DT.  In fact, even in his solo band, Matt does most of the writing.  As far as I know, he mostly only writes lyrics and sometimes vocal melodies.

13.  There are no songs that seem too long. Everything has its length for reason.

I mostly agree with this.  But there are a handful of songs that I feel would benefit from just a bit of trimming. 

[bosk1]

Just curious, what mood do his vocals on Nightmare set for you? For me when that part comes up I cannot take the song seriously. I feel like I'm listening to a comedy album or something.

You have a very interesting concept of "comedy."  I don't understand at all what you mean by that.

[abydos]

Probably that they are so ridiculous and out of place that they must have been put there to be bad on purpose for the lols.

[pcs90]

You have a very interesting concept of "comedy."  I don't understand at all what you mean by that.

They just sound so ridiculous to me that it makes me laugh, I guess. I don't know how else to explain it...one of those things that's just so weird and out of place it's amusing...

[pcs90]

Probably that they are so ridiculous and out of place that they must have been put there to be bad on purpose for the lols.

Beat me to it!

[bosk1]

If you say so.  I have no idea how one could arrive at that conclusion, but whatever. 

[abydos]

Well, to you the "rawwr" is kinda silly. To some, the whole section is like that or worse. I personally feel that this section shouldn't have existed and the song wouldn't suffer for it, but if they insisted on it they should have hired some guest spot dude to do some type of growling that sounds good. Then, for the live versions MP could cover them and be silly with the cookie monster montage and everyone could have a laugh because it's goofy.

[rumborak]

I always felt that section kinda showcased the flaw in DT's writing process. MP at some point released the "evolution" of the vocals, with JLB trying it, MP trying to go full cookie vocals, then softer cookie vocals..
The real problem seemed to me was their inability to get rid of the section altogether. By having recorded it already in full studio mode, it was now set in stone, and thus they had to settle for something that even they clearly didn't think was good. Had they created some demos first, they would have found that out there, and reworked the section.

[bosk1]

The fact that they had different opinions on how the vocals should be done does not by any stretch mean they didn't think the final product was good. 

[BlobVanDam]

They wouldn't have left it on the album if they didn't want it there. Removing it or reworking it wouldn't have taken much.

[phospheneSOI]

1. Portnoy leaving DT was the best thing that could have happened to the band at that point.
2. DT were idiots for not releasing the full rehearsal footage from the drummer auditions; I would pay top dollar to hear all the Minnemann jams.
3. Scenes from a Memory completely loses momentum after The Dance of Eternity.
4. (Not that I care but) The story for SFAM is absolutely rubbish.
5. Dream Theater made me cringe when they signed for Roadrunner and they started wearing "cool" clothes. and had all the t-shirt designs that made them look like an emo band.
6. Dream Theater should do more living jamming, even if it means dropping the Spirit Carries On or Pull Me Under.
7. The Shattered Fortress is awesome, and was awesome before they started performing it live.
8. DT12 is their worst album.
9. ADTOE sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of quality post-Train of Though.
10. They should let Jordan do more experimentation and weird stuff.

[CDrice]

1. Portnoy leaving DT was the best thing that could have happened to the band at that point.

8. DT12 is their worst album.
9. ADTOE sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of quality post-Train of Though.

I'm confused 

[phospheneSOI]

1. Portnoy leaving DT was the best thing that could have happened to the band at that point.

8. DT12 is their worst album.
9. ADTOE sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of quality post-Train of Though.

I'm confused 

Ha, yeah not very clear. ADTOE was my favourite album since ToT, I don't love it but I actually listen to it every now and then. DT12 was such a step-back after the pleasant surprise that was ADTOE, BUT even though I don't like at all it I still respect it more than that very "safe" SC/BC&SL phase.

[CDrice]

1. Portnoy leaving DT was the best thing that could have happened to the band at that point.

8. DT12 is their worst album.
9. ADTOE sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of quality post-Train of Though.

I'm confused 

Ha, yeah not very clear. ADTOE was my favourite album since ToT, I don't love it but I actually listen to it every now and then. DT12 was such a step-back after the pleasant surprise that was ADTOE, BUT even though I don't like at all it I still respect it more than that very "safe" SC/BC&SL phase.

Ah, got it! 

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

Oh my!

1. I love Mangini's snare sound on DT12. It sound so....I dunno how to describe it.

I can describe it for you. terrible, awful, lifeless, mechanical, compressed, triggered...ok I'm done.
In all fairness on the HD version it's not as bad (still mechanical but it at least blends a little better) but on the regular album it drove me insane when I first heard it, haha.

My reply will be in pink. KK? 
And wow! Why'd it drive you insane? His snare sounded really poundable....like in Images and Words. I pity you. I understand that feeling of being driven insane.

2. Portnoy's vocals are one of the best things he brought. It sets the mood, especially on Nightmare.

Just curious, what mood do his vocals on Nightmare set for you? For me when that part comes up I cannot take the song seriously. I feel like I'm listening to a comedy album or something.

Petrucci was in a car accident and we can feel how frightened and kind of pissed he was. Portnoy's vocals really showed that as it is much more gruffer and more agonizing than Labrie's. You can feel the raw pain and frustration vented out at the end.

3. This Dying souls ending is one of the best instrumentai works.

If technical means "best" then that's probably true, it is pretty crazy! I would probably rank it near the bottom but I totally see why people like this one. To give you an idea, I think the solos at the beginning are 100 times better.
Yes, technical. Although it rivals TDEN. In terms of melodious, yes, definitely. But I think the ending was like a dagger, you know? Like a big BOOM!

4. BC&SL is one of their strongest albums. Talks about real-life situations and is some times heartwrenching to listen to.

While I don't think it is near their best at all it has some amazing moments for me. The middle part of Nightmare is beautiful, JP's outro solo on Best of Times is one of his best and most emotional, and TCOT has a lot of amazing instrumental sections, like the end you mentioned later. I think a lot of the lyrics are pretty bad but those sections really make up for it. Plus I love their cover of Odyssey (much more than the original).

Yeah, the song has a lot of amazing moments. What you said about The Best of Times is  . Wither is a really nice ballad. I have a strange attraction to AROP. Really nice lyrics. Basically, love the instrumental.

5. I will forever serve Dark master and he is awesome.

We really do have opposite tastes in songs lol

10. Sampling is integral on DT songs. (I love sampling)

I love it in certain songs, especially SDV (that is the absolute best use of samples in any song IMO) but most of the time it doesn't fit well, at least to me.

6:00's sample makes me cringe. Yeah, SDV and HTF have two of the best samples. Also love Voices.

12. Labrie is the most talented DT song writer.

I would love for him to write more for DT. He's written some songs that rank very highly for me.

Yeah. Most of his lyrics are really awesome, like Blind Faith (of course), Disappear (<3), etc.

2. Portnoy's vocals are one of the best things he brought. It sets the mood, especially on Nightmare.

I agree mostly, with the exception being the "Rawwwwrrrrr!" at the end of his vocal section on Nightmare.  I like the rest of the section, but that part just sounds silly.

What if you thought of it as venting out the frustration and anger out? Like Rawwwwwr, you almost cost me and my family's life!!!!!!

7. Portnoy is the weakest song writer.

In fairness though, most drummers aren't songwriters at all, or at least not the best or primary songwriter in a band.  But Mike really has a talent for song arrangements, even if people may feel that some of his arrangements may have gotten a bit stale toward the end of his time in DT.  I feel like he really brought a lot to the table in that department.

That makes total sense. He still put up some really nice songs. I mean, The Twelve Step Suite is very memorable.

9. Bosk is awesome.

Wait...since when is that controversial??

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

12. Labrie is the most talented DT song writer.

Okay, I have to disagree here.  James doesn't really write songs in DT.  In fact, even in his solo band, Matt does most of the writing.  As far as I know, he mostly only writes lyrics and sometimes vocal melodies.

Oh wow. By DT song writer, I meant only lyrics. When I said song writer, did it protrude to something else like arrangements?

13.  There are no songs that seem too long. Everything has its length for reason.

I mostly agree with this.  But there are a handful of songs that I feel would benefit from just a bit of trimming. 

I'm guessing ANTR, HTF, BTL, etc?

[OnTheBacksofAngela]

Images and Words Controversial Opinion

REMEMBER, THIS IS ALL OPINION! FEEL FREE TO DISAGREE AND STATE REASONS, BUT PLEASE DON'T HATE ME FOR IT!!

1. Pull Me Under is honestly so overrated. I mean seriously. I don't know why there is all the attention for PMU.
2. Another Day has the greatest and widest vocal range in I&W. Way larger than Take The Time, Metropolis Part 1, and Learning to Live.
3. Lyrics on Metropolis Part 1 excel more than its instrumental section. Not all the band members needed a solo.....
4. Surrounded is a really nice song and is much better than Pull Me Under.
5. Under a Glass Moon's solo of Petrucci does not appeal to me at all. It doesn't have any effect on me.
6. Wait For Sleep gives some of Kevin Moore's most emotional and heart felt piano playing.
7. Unfortunately, I don't like the synth Moore uses for Surrounded in the beginning. It ruins the experience. The piano was great though.
8. Learning to Live's "Wait For Sleep" melody Moore plays is one of the smoothest transitions I have ever heard.
9. Images and Words is good, but compared to other albums, it would not be in my top three or top five.

[bosk1]

Okay, the quotes are a mess.    But I will do my best:

What if you thought of it as venting out the frustration and anger out? Like Rawwwwwr, you almost cost me and my family's life!!!!!!

Huh, I hadn't thought about it that way, but that actually fits.  Okay.

That makes total sense. He still put up some really nice songs. I mean, The Twelve Step Suite is very memorable.

Yeah, but most of the music for that was primarily JP with some stuff from Rudess.  Mike may have contributed a bit to the writing, but was mostly the arrangement guy.  And the lyrics, of course, were his.

I'm guessing ANTR, HTF, BTL, etc?

I would include ANTR, but not the other two you mentioned.  And ANTR isn't overly long.  But the instrumental section just feels like it could have :30-:60 seconds trimmed and it would be much tighter.  I feel the same with TGP, TDSW, and TSF.  All very good songs, but ever so slightly lose focus during the instrumental sections and could do with just a bit of trimming to tighten them up.

[pcs90]

And wow! Why'd it drive you insane? His snare sounded really poundable....like in Images and Words. I pity you. I understand that feeling of being driven insane.

Driven insane by One Direction?
I just don't like really mechanical snares. I'm not a fan of IW's snare sound either though I prefer that one if I absolutely had to pick. I prefer a more natural and dynamic sound. I learned to not let it bother me though because I absolutely love DT12 and it would be a crime to let the drum sound ruin the album for me.

Petrucci was in a car accident and we can feel how frightened and kind of pissed he was. Portnoy's vocals really showed that as it is much more gruffer and more agonizing than Labrie's. You can feel the raw pain and frustration vented out at the end.

Well, I'm glad you get something out of it. I tried again and I just don't feel it. There are plenty of moments where James shows those types of emotions in songs without...doing what MP is doing. XD

[pcs90]

1. Portnoy leaving DT was the best thing that could have happened to the band at that point.
2. DT were idiots for not releasing the full rehearsal footage from the drummer auditions; I would pay top dollar to hear all the Minnemann jams.

I absolutely agree with both of these. Minnemann is outstanding but I bet the band had great jams with all of the drummers.

6. Dream Theater should do more living jamming, even if it means dropping the Spirit Carries On or Pull Me Under.

Agree again! They did do that Trial of Tears intro on the last 3rd or so of the last tour though. That was awesome!

8. DT12 is their worst album.

And I think it is one of their best.

9. ADTOE sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of quality post-Train of Though.

If you mean in a good way, I agree although instead of TOT I pick Octavarium as the other good album from that period.

10. They should let Jordan do more experimentation and weird stuff.

Nomac tracks.

[425]

I just listened to BCSL again as part of my full-discography run coming into The Astonishing. I still think that "Day After Day" is one of the strongest moments on that album and that the album is one of the finest albums in their discography.