Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[DT_12_Octavarium]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I don't like mike portnoys spastic drumming after the first chorus of misunderstood

[bosk1]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I don't like mike portnoys spastic drumming after the first chorus of misunderstood

No, I don't think it has.  Honestly, I think you may be the first person I have ever seen mention that they don't like that.  I mean, I'm not criticizing if that's your opinion--just saying that I don't think I've ever seen it expressed before.  You are definitely in the minority on that one.

[DT_12_Octavarium]

I mean I don't think it's terrible. Maybe it's just the guitarist in me, but I really enjoy Petrucci's playing during that section in combination with Myung's bass part, and IMO the drums are a little too overpowering. This is d finitely a minor criticism of a great song

[jakepriest]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I don't like mike portnoys spastic drumming after the first chorus of misunderstood

Wow. That's my favourite part of the song.

[cramx3]

I agree with Bosk1.  The last 3 JLB releases are a big step up ( I think) from the Mullmuzzler series.  That's why I compared only the last 3 JLB releases to the last 3 DT releases.  Another reason I made the comparisons is that JLB's releases have gotten progressively better.  DT's have not within that same time span.

Yea, it's a different style of music, the Mullmuzzler stuff was not for me, but I admit I didn't give it a fair shot.  It didn't hit me at all on first listen so I never bought the albums.  His last three are great though, wouldn't say better than DT.  It's different than DT, but I do think his performance is better on those albums... I mean it's his band, it should be in a way.

As for Misunderstood, I guess my controversial opinion is that song is just not that good.  I was very disappointed when they played Misunderstood instead of Blind Faith at the Philly show during the SC tour... and then again on the ProgNation tour in NYC.

[Stadler]

Yea, it's a different style of music, the Mullmuzzler stuff was not for me, but I admit I didn't give it a fair shot.  It didn't hit me at all on first listen so I never bought the albums.  His last three are great though, wouldn't say better than DT.  It's different than DT, but I do think his performance is better on those albums... I mean it's his band, it should be in a way.

I'm sorry I'm hammering this point, but I don't have SPotify or anything like that; "different style" in the sense that Mullmuzzler is 80's synth pop? Or Death metal?  I know what SI sounds like (and I like that record very much).  Where in relation to that is the Mullmuzzler?

As for Misunderstood, I guess my controversial opinion is that song is just not that good.  I was very disappointed when they played Misunderstood instead of Blind Faith at the Philly show during the SC tour... and then again on the ProgNation tour in NYC.

Friggin' LOVE that song, Misunderstood.  In my DT top ten, and perhaps my favorite song on an album that is one of my favorites from the band. 

[bosk1]

Yea, it's a different style of music, the Mullmuzzler stuff was not for me, but I admit I didn't give it a fair shot.  It didn't hit me at all on first listen so I never bought the albums.  His last three are great though, wouldn't say better than DT.  It's different than DT, but I do think his performance is better on those albums... I mean it's his band, it should be in a way.

I'm sorry I'm hammering this point, but I don't have SPotify or anything like that; "different style" in the sense that Mullmuzzler is 80's synth pop? Or Death metal?  I know what SI sounds like (and I like that record very much).  Where in relation to that is the Mullmuzzler? 

I know for me, it has been so long since I listened that, coupled with the fact that I only listened once or twice, I can't really recall enough to give you any specifics.  But what I would recommend is google the track lists so you have the names of some songs, and then find some songs on YouTube.  Even without some of the services you mentioned that you don't have, YouTube is always there to sample something to see if it fits your tastes.

[hefdaddy42]

Let's say that the most recent 3 JLB albums could be classified as "hard" or "heavy".

In that vein, the Mullmuzzler albums are definitely "soft."

I still like them (or some songs from them), but they don't have the visceral appeal of the more recent albums.

[abydos]

I would recommend Confronting the Devil, Afterlife, Tell Me from Mullmuzzler 2 and His Voice, Guardian Angel and As a Man Thinks from the first. It also might be worth paying attention to the drums since that is Mike Mangini, could be fun to compare to his work with them now.

[MirrorMask]

I love all of James' work, am I the only one in thinking that the Mullmuzzler records were excellent and very unique? I love dearly the other three albums as well, but they're "just" hard heavy / prog / rock albums, the Mullmuzzler records were truly one of a kind. The first had the very best songs (His Voice, Statued, Guardian Angel, Shores of Avalon, Sacrifice), the second one is better overall as an album (I totally love Venice Burning, Confronting the Devil, Falling and Stranger).

Anyway, I love all of James' solo output, his solo concert was awesome and I wish he'd tour again for the most recent releases. I love too his voice, I don't play instruments and I was always drawn to vocals first and foremost, so James is the main reason I'm still a fan after all these years. James goes, I go, basically (Well, maybe not that drastically, I would surely check out if only for curiosity and loyalty to the other guys an album without James, but his voice is the main reason I listen to this band. If he was booted after Six Degrees, DT with another singer would have lost me around the Systematic Chaos / Black Clouds era).

[cramx3]

Yea, it's a different style of music, the Mullmuzzler stuff was not for me, but I admit I didn't give it a fair shot.  It didn't hit me at all on first listen so I never bought the albums.  His last three are great though, wouldn't say better than DT.  It's different than DT, but I do think his performance is better on those albums... I mean it's his band, it should be in a way.

I'm sorry I'm hammering this point, but I don't have SPotify or anything like that; "different style" in the sense that Mullmuzzler is 80's synth pop? Or Death metal?  I know what SI sounds like (and I like that record very much).  Where in relation to that is the Mullmuzzler?

I just use youtube when I want to check out a band.  I don't use spotify either.  I haven't listened in a couple years, but I just remember it being very different.  A lot of people on this forum really like it though, so my opinion is just my own (obviously).  It was not heavy and maybe a bit more proggy than his newest albums (I mean, it sounds nothing like his two latest, which doesn't even sound anything like EoP but I like those albums a lot).

[Tomislav95]

Maybe I didn't hear it enough times, but I think Impermanent Resonance is easily the worst of three JL's albums. I love some tracks but there are fillers IMO. And Static Impulse is almost perfect, with exception in Superstar which is uninteresting to me.

[jakepriest]

Maybe I didn't hear it enough times, but I think Impermanent Resonance is easily the worst of three JL's albums. I love some tracks but there are fillers IMO. And Static Impulse is almost perfect, with exception in Superstar which is uninteresting to me.

Imho IR is the best LaBrie album by far.

[Tomislav95]

Maybe I didn't hear it enough times, but I think Impermanent Resonance is easily the worst of three JL's albums. I love some tracks but there are fillers IMO. And Static Impulse is almost perfect, with exception in Superstar which is uninteresting to me.

Imho IR is the best LaBrie album by far.

Wow. I really didn't listen to it or any songs from it since few months after release. I need to give it a spin while waiting for The Astonishing

[pcs90]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I don't like mike portnoys spastic drumming after the first chorus of misunderstood

If you mean in the instrumental section before the second verse, I 100% agree. That is probably the most random thing he has come up with and I have no idea how so many people think it fits. It sounds like someone just banging out random rhythms with no regard to what else is going on...totally kills the mood for me.
However, the drumming once the verse starts is very nice.

[BlobVanDam]

First two tracks aside, I never got into SI at all despite the similar style to IR. IR is amazing, and imo much better than any of DT's RR era albums.
Except for TA which I can't judge yet.

[Rodni Demental]

I agree with Bosk1.  The last 3 JLB releases are a big step up ( I think) from the Mullmuzzler series.  That's why I compared only the last 3 JLB releases to the last 3 DT releases.  Another reason I made the comparisons is that JLB's releases have gotten progressively better.  DT's have not within that same time span.

Hmm, I feel that James' solo albums have gotten progressively more generic. Nothing in particular against the newer stuff, it seems more predictable and so is certainly more catchy. Where as the MullMuzzler stuff felt more progressive and surprising. Reminded me more of DT in that the instrumentation had some unique qualities to it and sometimes took a few listens to grow on you. I also prefer Static Impulse to Impermanent Resonance but that's because of one or two favourite songs, while it feels like IR didn't have any standout tracks but was amazingly consistent and still makes for a decent album. MullMuzzler albums while to me have the more interesting songs; are certainly not as consistent as about a third of each album I don't care for.

To be honest I'm more surprised that there are DT fans that haven't checked out JLB solo stuff, not like it matters, it's just for me that was the first thing I did after digging through DTs music was to find anything even slightly similar that I could get my hands on. 

[Outcrier]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I don't like mike portnoys spastic drumming after the first chorus of misunderstood

If you mean in the instrumental section before the second verse, I 100% agree. That is probably the most random thing he has come up with and I have no idea how so many people think it fits. It sounds like someone just banging out random rhythms with no regard to what else is going on...totally kills the mood for me.
However, the drumming once the verse starts is very nice.

I think that section was inspired by Neil Peart's drumming (hear The Trees, at 1:47).

My controversial opinion(s):

Dream Theater hasn't released a great album in nearly 2 decades.

This one i agree but i do consider ToT in the range of a 6-7 solid record.

[MirrorMask]

Hmm, I feel that James' solo albums have gotten progressively more generic. Nothing in particular against the newer stuff, it seems more predictable and so is certainly more catchy. Where as the MullMuzzler stuff felt more progressive and surprising. Reminded me more of DT in that the instrumentation had some unique qualities to it and sometimes took a few listens to grow on you. I also prefer Static Impulse to Impermanent Resonance but that's because of one or two favourite songs, while it feels like IR didn't have any standout tracks but was amazingly consistent and still makes for a decent album.

Exactly how I feel.

But as I said earlier, overall I really appreciate all of James' solo records.

[thosava]

This might be considered controversial:

Right now i think The Gift of Music is the third best DT song in more than a decade (since 2005), only behind Octavarium and The Count of Tuscany. Everything about that song is so perfect 

[matthewmatt]

Oh, here's a controversial opinion - I actually like MP's "tuff guy" vocals. 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Oh, here's a controversial opinion - I actually like MP's "tuff guy" vocals. 

Thank God. Everyone survived.

Roar.

[TheCountOfNYC]

This might be considered controversial:

Right now i think The Gift of Music is the third best DT song in more than a decade (since 2005), only behind Octavarium and The Count of Tuscany. Everything about that song is so perfect 

Well you're certainly right when you say that Octavarium and The Count of Tuscany are the two best songs DT has released since 2005 (and by since 2005, I mean ever).

[425]

Oh, here's a controversial opinion - I actually like MP's "tuff guy" vocals. 

I like them too!

[IdoSC]

Ooh are we still talking about JLB's solo work? I absolutely LOVE them. All of them. The first two are definitely up there with other albums that I consider "especially special". I wouldn't want about 70% of these songs on DT records just because it's a totally different style than anything they've done, but they're amazing in their own right, and I can't have enough of these vocal gymnastics James does in these two albums (see: As a Man Thinks, for the best example of that). Initially I preferred Keep it to Yourself but Mullmuzzler 2 is a real grower.

Elements of Persuasion is the kind of music you've come to expect to hear James singing over, in my opinion. Some people were confusing/trolled into believing that this album is actually Octavarium before its official release, and I can definitely see why. This stands in line with DT's discography the most out of his 5 albums. If I had to rank DT's 12 albums so far, then insert EoP into that ranking, it'd probably be in the top half and possibly not at the tail of that half, either.

Static Impulse was really what I needed to hear after DT's much recent (at the time) corny attempts at "edgy" music in their (then) 2 latest records (again, IMO), and the bland (IMO) performance of James in both of them. This was really done much better, James sounded great, enjoyable lyrics for the most part too. A little more straightforward than the first 3 albums but it was very fun still.

Impermanent Resonance is where I'm having some mixed feelings. Some songs are great, some really bore me. Also, I wish James would write some more lyrics on these as I like his "semi-political" and insightful writing a lot while things like "Back on the Ground" make me cringe so much. It's at a point where I like this song mostly because it's hysterically ridiculous to me, lyrics-wise.

[Cable]

Oh, here's a controversial opinion - I actually like MP's "tuff guy" vocals. 

I like them too!

On that note, A Nightmare To Remember has the best and worst vocal sections of DTs career, back to back.

[jakepriest]

Oh, here's a controversial opinion - I actually like MP's "tuff guy" vocals. 

I like them too!

On that note, A Nightmare To Remember has the best and worst vocal sections of DTs career, back to back.

If you mean the vocal harmonies in Beautiful Agony, then I definitely agree with the best part. The worst is the entire WDADU disc. 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Controversial opinion:

I think 92/93 James LaBrie live is overrated. Sure, his voice was very powerful, high and clear back then, but his voice cracked a whole lot during live shows. He pushed himself too far and there are lots of bootlegs which people praise vocally in which JLB's voice cracks 3-4 times per song (at least). I'm aware he had some near-perfect shows (precisely in 92, I think...maybe wasteland can help me quite a bit!) in which his performance is an A+ from beginning to end, but in most bootlegs I've listened to from that time (maybe 20-something shows) his voice is cracking and he's throwing high notes all over the place just 'cause. NOTE: I do think his high notes are amazing from time to time (like on the end of The Killing Hand), but there's some places in which I think they were totally uncalled for...but maybe that's OK because it's the early 90s and people liked such performance styles, but who knows.

I love the guy, always have and always will, but I don't think he was the live vocal God in his 92/93 era most people put think he was.

I'd take a performance like A Change of Seasons from Live Scenes over his 92/93 performances any day of the week...because of all the control, all the power and all the passion that JLB prints into such a hard song to sing, and extra points for JLB for pulling off such an amazing vocal performance after almost 3 hours of show.

[pcs90]

He also just screams out a lot of lyrics on some of the 92-93 shows...way too harsh for most of the songs. 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

He also just screams out a lot of lyrics on some of the 92-93 shows...way too harsh for most of the songs.

True, like on the bonus Another Day performance from the Score DVD.

YOU WON'T FIND IT HEEEERE, SO TRY ANOTHER DAAaAaAaAaAAAAAaaAay

I think he had the skills to replicate his amazing studio performance live, but he was way more aggressive with most of the songs that didn't really need the growl.

[Prog Snob]

Controversial opinion:

I think 92/93 James LaBrie live is overrated. Sure, his voice was very powerful, high and clear back then, but his voice cracked a whole lot during live shows. He pushed himself too far and there are lots of bootlegs which people praise vocally in which JLB's voice cracks 3-4 times per song (at least). I'm aware he had some near-perfect shows (precisely in 92, I think...maybe wasteland can help me quite a bit!) in which his performance is an A+ from beginning to end, but in most bootlegs I've listened to from that time (maybe 20-something shows) his voice is cracking and he's throwing high notes all over the place just 'cause. NOTE: I do think his high notes are amazing from time to time (like on the end of The Killing Hand), but there's some places in which I think they were totally uncalled for...but maybe that's OK because it's the early 90s and people liked such performance styles, but who knows.

I love the guy, always have and always will, but I don't think he was the live vocal God in his 92/93 era most people put think he was.

I'd take a performance like A Change of Seasons from Live Scenes over his 92/93 performances any day of the week...because of all the control, all the power and all the passion that JLB prints into such a hard song to sing, and extra points for JLB for pulling off such an amazing vocal performance after almost 3 hours of show.

I think you'll probably find that his vocals were better earlier on during the world tour. I've listened to most of the bootlegs from that tour and just about every other tour. I think what happened was that his voice wasn't used to the consistent stress put on it. I mean, before Dream Theater, he did some shows with Winter Rose. I doubt they toured a whole lot. His vocals on the Winter Rose bootleg were really good. I remember one bootleg, which I'm pretty sure was from Oct 4, 1992 in Long Island, where he had killer vocals.

[Stadler]

To be honest I'm more surprised that there are DT fans that haven't checked out JLB solo stuff, not like it matters, it's just for me that was the first thing I did after digging through DTs music was to find anything even slightly similar that I could get my hands on. 

That's generally me, too, but at a certain point it becomes too much, and with all the Ytsejam stuff, then the stuff that Mike was involved in, then the breakup and what was (for me) a tarnishing of James from a personal perspective, I just never got into it.  I got Static Impulse at a used store in Philly for like a $1.00 or some shit, so I lucked into it, but never pursued it beyond that.  Now, I'm sort of in a lull with not a lot on tap so I figured I'd ask some questions and check it out. 

[dreamtheater360]

I can't stand JR playing the same digital sounding stuff on his iPad. I get it, you made a new app this month that sounds just like the app you made last month. I think he plays those type of sounds too much. For instance, once of my favorite songs is Octivarium, especially the like version on Score, but that first 4-5 minutes drive me insane and I skip it almost every time.

However, I love his playing otherwise.

OK, I feel better now.

[cramx3]

I can't stand JR playing the same digital sounding stuff on his iPad. I get it, you made a new app this month that sounds just like the app you made last month. I think he plays those type of sounds too much. For instance, once of my favorite songs is Octivarium, especially the like version on Score, but that first 4-5 minutes drive me insane and I skip it almost every time.

However, I love his playing otherwise.

OK, I feel better now.

I skip the first 4-5 minutes of Octavarium from Score as well. 

[pcs90]

I can't stand JR playing the same digital sounding stuff on his iPad. I get it, you made a new app this month that sounds just like the app you made last month. I think he plays those type of sounds too much. For instance, once of my favorite songs is Octivarium, especially the like version on Score, but that first 4-5 minutes drive me insane and I skip it almost every time.

However, I love his playing otherwise.

OK, I feel better now.

I think the best example of his use of apps not fitting the song is the AROP solo. I thought the Octavarium thing was on continuum, not his iPad...
I prefer the intro on the studio album over the Score one. I feel it fits the song better and is in fact one of my favorite parts of Octavarium, which as a song I feel is vastly overrated anyway. But the Score version gets a little crazy.