Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Viking of the Sagas]

Not their fault, Linkin Part is awesome.

[rumborak]

My controversial opinion of the day is that I think DT is somewhat killing the dynamicness of their performances with them playing all tunes to click. Just for shits and giggles I just played BITS in parallel from the album and from LALP. They stayed in complete sync all the way through.

[gmillerdrake]

My controversial opinion of the day is that I think DT is somewhat killing the dynamicness of their performances with them playing all tunes to click. Just for shits and giggles I just played BITS in parallel from the album and from LALP. They stayed in complete sync all the way through.

How is that a 'bad' thing? Are you looking for a more "rough" version? For me, I like the fact they can do that. I don't see MIT killing the dynamicness of the performance....in fact I think their ability to essentially play in sink with their studio version is further validation of I their virtuosity. I don't think most bands would be able to stay in sink like that on such complex songs.

[Lucien]

My controversial opinion of the day is that I think DT is somewhat killing the dynamicness of their performances with them playing all tunes to click. Just for shits and giggles I just played BITS in parallel from the album and from LALP. They stayed in complete sync all the way through.

How is that a 'bad' thing? Are you looking for a more "rough" version? For me, I like the fact they can do that. I don't see MIT killing the dynamicness of the performance....in fact I think their ability to essentially play in sink with their studio version is further validation of I their virtuosity. I don't think most bands would be able to stay in sink like that on such complex songs.

I'm pretty sure a click track makes that rather easy to do. 

[Crow]

googling for images of DT in a sink now thanks.

[rumborak]

My controversial opinion of the day is that I think DT is somewhat killing the dynamicness of their performances with them playing all tunes to click. Just for shits and giggles I just played BITS in parallel from the album and from LALP. They stayed in complete sync all the way through.

How is that a 'bad' thing? Are you looking for a more "rough" version? For me, I like the fact they can do that. I don't see MIT killing the dynamicness of the performance....in fact I think their ability to essentially play in sink with their studio version is further validation of I their virtuosity. I don't think most bands would be able to stay in sink like that on such complex songs.

I'm not sure whether you understand this correctly, let me go into more detail.
I don't know how much MP did it when he was still in DT, but starting with MM's live performances, MM has a constant click track in his in-ear monitor that forces his playing speed to be exactly what the album version is. MM can't speed up or slow down even if he wants to; he has to adhere to the click track, otherwise the samples, canned backing vocals etc will appear at the wrong times.
I'm saying that that forceful adhesion to a click track robs their performances of dynamicness.

EDIT: 6:00 is the same thing, just tried it. Played to album click as well.
EDIT2: According to his FAQ, MP never used click tracks on stage. And I think that showed (in MP's favor).

[?]

I've seen many shows by bands that use click and backing tracks, but they've been just as great as gigs by bands that don't play to a click track, so it doesn't bother me. I do think it's unnecessary to use a click for songs with zero backing tracks, but judging by LALP DT's performances haven't gone downhill because of the consistent tempos. In fact, I think MP played some songs unnecessarily fast (see: Disappear @ Budokan). Maybe that counts as a controversial opinion?

[Ben_Jamin]

I've seen many shows by bands that use click and backing tracks, but they've been just as great as gigs by bands that don't play to a click track, so it doesn't bother me. I do think it's unnecessary to use a click for songs with zero backing tracks, but judging by LALP DT's performances haven't gone downhill because of the consistent tempos. In fact, I think MP played some songs unnecessarily fast (see: Disappear @ Budokan). Maybe that counts as a controversial opinion?

Exactly, or the insane speed gigantour version of The Glass Prison. Some songs can benefit sped up a bit, but others just don't.

[rumborak]

I dunno, for me that's one of the reasons to a actually see a band live, so that I can experience the mood the band is at a given day. The tempo variations are one of the major aspects of that.
For example, I remember when on some DT gig they had a hard curfew to observe, and MP decided to just play the last song in double time (I think it was Take the Time). That's the kind of spontaneity you won't see with clicks. Nor can any of the others decide on a whim to extend a section of theirs.

[gmillerdrake]

I get what you're saying about click tracks Rumborak, and I can see how that could bother/be a turn off to a certain population of DTs fans. I personally like the precision....and was bothered at times by MP's variation from the album tempo.....and, the frequency in which he'd alter bass drum patterns and fills that deviated from what was recorded.

Some people like that style of playing.....I happen to like hearing a song played live to the tempo and using the 'music' they recorded. I still can enjoy the live experience knowing they are going to stay in sync the whole time.

[rumborak]

I would even argue that songs are *meant* to be played faster live than on the recording. Every band I've played in, and every band I've seen, has done so. I think it's just the adrenaline rush of the moment that gets you into that mood, and I would argue that, if that's the mood, the music should reflect that. Case in point, when MM plays the 6:00 intro fill on LALP, I actually thought he was playing it *slower* than on the record, exactly because of that live phenomenon. Playing the album speed seemed wrongly slow.

[jakepriest]

Agree with Rumborak here. I really don't like the way DT sounds live with the click tracks.

[Jaffa]

Stuff on Awake like Lie and Caught in a Web is closer to Nu Metal than that

I'm surprised no one has responded to this.  I don't hear any nu metal vibes in those songs at all.  Am I the oddball?   

[Cable]

Stuff on Awake like Lie and Caught in a Web is closer to Nu Metal than that

I'm surprised no one has responded to this.  I don't hear any nu metal vibes in those songs at all.  Am I the oddball?   

Well, I guess one can think it may *sound* new metal. But for the riffs to actually be inspired by new metal is patently ridiculous, and impossible. Awake was released on 10/4/94, Korn's s/t on 10/11/94.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Nu metal.

[TheGreatPretender]

Agree with Rumborak here. I really don't like the way DT sounds live with the click tracks.

I'd understand if you liked it less... But not liking it at all, just because the rhythm of the songs is consistent is a little ridiculous.

[BlobVanDam]

I would even argue that songs are *meant* to be played faster live than on the recording. Every band I've played in, and every band I've seen, has done so. I think it's just the adrenaline rush of the moment that gets you into that mood, and I would argue that, if that's the mood, the music should reflect that. Case in point, when MM plays the 6:00 intro fill on LALP, I actually thought he was playing it *slower* than on the record, exactly because of that live phenomenon. Playing the album speed seemed wrongly slow.

I know what you mean. TROAE sounded slow at album tempo live, and TSCO is a song that I feel really needs to be played in the moment, and falls flat for me live on LALP.
However there are also other songs that don't bother me at album tempo at all, and some of the ballads actually benefit from being kept at a slower tempo, as they were sometimes too fast and lost the feels altogether live.

So I'm still very much on the fence over click vs no click. Both have their pros and cons.

[Implode]

I think I like the idea of a band going on stage and creating music without any help, but I can see how they might want it. I agree that in some songs like TSCO, the tempo needs to be able to breathe. All in all, I guess it doesn't bother me too much, but I'd prefer they didn't use it.

[Rodni Demental]

Not their fault, Linkin Part used to be awesome.

Fixed

I think they had their hay day but now.. They're up to some interesting stuff. I wouldn't be as pretentious as to call it terrible but.. It's not the LP I grew up with anymore that's for sure.

Also, I always thought These Walls had a kind of nu-metal vibe to it. Figured it was just another one of the many Octavarium album reference to their different musical influences.

[jakepriest]

Agree with Rumborak here. I really don't like the way DT sounds live with the click tracks.

I'd understand if you liked it less... But not liking it at all, just because the rhythm of the songs is consistent is a little ridiculous.

Not liking it a lot =/= not liking it at all. Pls read.

[Sycsa]

Agree with Rumborak here.

Me too. For me, it's a no-brainer that click tracks and especially backing tracks are mood killers live. Besides the drum mix/sound, this is where I miss MP the most. I remember we used to make fun of Nightwish for their excessive use of backing tracks and now DT is one of those bands. JLB falls down on the stage and the chorus keeps playing.

[TheGreatPretender]

Not liking it a lot =/= not liking it at all. Pls read.

I read you saying you really don't like the way they sound now. If you really don't like something, then you might as well say you dislike it, or not like it at all.

[Sycsa]

Not liking it a lot =/= not liking it at all. Pls read.

I read you saying you really don't like the way they sound now. If you really don't like something, then you might as well say you dislike it, or not like it at all.

He doesn't like how they sound with click compared to without click, that's the obvious interpretation to me. 

[Outcrier]

Not their fault, Linkin Park never was awesome.

Fixed again

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Linkin Park are awesome.

[BlackInk]

Mike Mangini needs to calm the f down. Playing at 300 m/h at all times only makes him an annoying presence on the new album.

[jakepriest]

Not liking it a lot =/= not liking it at all. Pls read.

I read you saying you really don't like the way they sound now. If you really don't like something, then you might as well say you dislike it, or not like it at all.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[Sycsa]

Linkin Park are awesome.

Bands with songs which can be seamlessly mashed together cannot be awesome be default. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSp0SRUM5p8

Now this, on the other hand, is awesome! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUSNfned0Ao

[Marion Crane]

I wouldn't say it's seamless. The tempos and keys were changed to create the mashup

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Linkin Park are awesome.

Bands with songs which can be seamlessly mashed together cannot be awesome be default. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSp0SRUM5p8

Now this, on the other hand, is awesome! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUSNfned0Ao

olol

[son_ov_hades]

My controversial opinion of the day is that I think DT is somewhat killing the dynamicness of their performances with them playing all tunes to click. Just for shits and giggles I just played BITS in parallel from the album and from LALP. They stayed in complete sync all the way through.

Agree completely, Luna Park feels much less organic than previous live albums and I have to blame the click track. I still think they're great live, but just not as interesting and spontaneous as they could be.

[ReaperKK]

Mike Mangini needs to calm the f down. Playing at 300 m/h at all times only makes him an annoying presence on the new album.

I actually thought MP would overplay more than Mangini. Mangini seems more subtle.

[Grizz]

My controversial opinion of the day is that I think DT is somewhat killing the dynamicness of their performances with them playing all tunes to click. Just for shits and giggles I just played BITS in parallel from the album and from LALP. They stayed in complete sync all the way through.

Agree completely, Luna Park feels much less organic than previous live albums and I have to blame the click track. I still think they're great live, but just not as interesting and spontaneous as they could be.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS                                                                                          THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

[Rodni Demental]

Linkin Park are awesome.

Bands with songs which can be seamlessly mashed together cannot be awesome be default. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSp0SRUM5p8

Now this, on the other hand, is awesome! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUSNfned0Ao

Haha, good find although in fairness, every band, DT not excluded have their favourite Chord progressions and there are little nuances in JPs solos that are quite common like bent 6ths and Aeolian Minor scales. He loves that stuff and I bet you could make a DT Mash Up of various sections that follow these same structures if you wanted. Granted, it probably wouldn't be as easy and obvious as Linkin Parks Chord progressions. But my point is, being able to mash together a bands music doesn't necessarily detract from the originality for most people because half the time the band is deliberately using that sound, and I bet they're well aware they're using the same chord progressions because they know the sound and mood they're going for. And it kind of relates to their older music, almost like a progressional growth in their musical expression. And expansion upon what they started with or originally created.

Of course you can take this too far and end up ripping off your own music and boring yourself silly with repetitive music. I dunno. I think it depends if the music has 'soul'. Doesn't matter how similar the chords or notes are to something else, if it can be unique in it's own way and it came from a place that wasn't trying to be something else, then that feels legitimate to me.

[Zyzzyva17]

My controversial opinion is that I like every song on BC&SL. ANTR has great riffs, and while some may be repeated too much, the song progresses well, not to mention that Beautiful Agony is...well, beautiful. AROP has one my favorite DT choruses, an admittedly good guitar solo, and an admittedly bad keyboard solo, but not so bad that it detracts from the song. Wither is nothing special, but it's a well written song. The Shattered Fortress is my favorite of the 12 step songs, because it doesn't just rehash old ideas. It actually makes them fit in the album,  makes them sound new again, and takes them in new directions. TBOT has so much emotion in the beginning and the final guitar solo, and the middle isn't bad itself. TCOT is just epic. Sure, there are weaknesses in the lyrics, but the song does take me for a ride. The album promises a vast adventure, and it delivers. And to all the haters of this album, this is what I think. Please try to forgive.