Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[j]

The whole "prog/progressive" argument is really kind of ridiculous. It only serves to confuse when people start deciding that a band can be prog without being progressive or whatever. Dream Theater is a progressive band, because they do things like using unusual time signatures and displaying a high degree of technical ability.

I agree, it's completely ridiculous.  And personally, there is no context in which I would use the term "prog" at all, certainly not to describe something that does not fit the full word it abbreviates.  But look at your final sentence in the quote above, and think about how you came to adopt that definition of the word "progressive."

Again, you may not like this, but terms have specific meanings, and spontaneously changing them when you for some reason can't say what you mean with the word "experimental" confuses exactly everybody.

Exactly!  Terms DO have specific meanings!  The definition of the word progressive "spontaneously changed" in a musical context a few decades ago, possibly for good reason, but does that mean that it necessarily still applies to everything we're told it does?  I'm not going to just start using it any way I want to obviously, because that would be unnecessarily confusing.  But I can still point out the absurdity of misapplying it.

I have no problem with the word "experimental," I think it's a great word in some ways to describe what I'm talking about.  But that doesn't make "progressive rock" NOT a misnomer when used to just mean funny time signatures and 20 minute songs.

By the same token, what's wrong with using a word like "technical" to say what YOU actually mean?  It describes what you seem to be saying much better than "progressive."  Man, it'd be a lot less confusing if you could just say what you mean by using the word "technical."

And looking at "progressive" as a standalone adjective is off topic here, we're talking genre names.

Why are we limited to genre names?  All we're doing is using words to try to describe music.  I know very little and care to know even less about what constitutes the difference between arbitrary genre labels.  Frankly they tell you remarkably little about the music they claim to describe.

Anyway, I agree with everybody saying this is the dumbest argument ever, and yet here I am having it.

-J

[ResultsMayVary]

^Couldn't agree more. That's a huge pet peeve of mine.

[Implode]

Arguing semantics is always awful because believe it or not, words do change over time. They can also mean different things at the same time. It's just not worth the effort to argue which is correct.

[theseoafs]

Honestly, whenever the whole "prog/progressive" argument comes up, I realize how trivial genre labels are. What does it even matter? The only classification that matters is whether it's good or not to you. And as long as it's good, who gives a crap if it's progressive, or prog, or polkacore, or folk slop?

Really getting sick of this debate.  Genre labels might be the most meaningless, mind-numbingly dull things for music fans to talk about, and yet the issue comes up every week DT-side.

No, "progressive" does not literally mean "changing".  I do not actually have to think a band is "progressing" in order to call them "progressive", nor do I have to think that a band is made of stone if I call them "rock" or that they have anything to do with the mail if I call them "post". 

[Obfuscation]

Honestly, whenever the whole "prog/progressive" argument comes up, I realize how trivial genre labels are. What does it even matter? The only classification that matters is whether it's good or not to you. And as long as it's good, who gives a crap if it's progressive, or prog, or polkacore, or folk slop?

I usually hate having to bring up talk about what genre is this or that band because at the end its all about whether is something you like listening to or not instead of worrying in what group it belongs too.

[Dark Castle]

nor do I have to think that a band is made of stone if I call them "rock"

JESUS MARIE, It's a mineral!

[TheGreatPretender]

No, "progressive" does not literally mean "changing".  I do not actually have to think a band is "progressing" in order to call them "progressive", nor do I have to think that a band is made of stone if I call them "rock" or that they have anything to do with the mail if I call them "post".

Totally agreed.

The problem I have with post rock though, is that it's pretty heavy and expensive to ship.

[rumborak]

Really, all music is art. Even KrotchRaut. It was created, like a painting. A really shitty painting, and there are plenty of those in Museums.

To me that kind of definition of art renders the term meaningless. Art is clearly more than just mere creation. See below in my sig.

[Lucien]

Arguing semantics is always awful because believe it or not, words do change over time. They can also mean different things at the same time. It's just not worth the effort to argue which is correct.

Implode just won the argument, guys. Show's over.

Back to controversial opinions, I think they need to experiment more with the ambient sections

[Outcrier]

Honestly, whenever the whole "prog/progressive" argument comes up, I realize how trivial genre labels are. What does it even matter? The only classification that matters is whether it's good or not to you. And as long as it's good, who gives a crap if it's progressive, or prog, or polkacore, or folk slop?

Two genres, Good and Bad music 
Meaning, don't matter the genre if the songwriting is great.

[Prog Snob]

My brother-in-law recently asked me what makes a band progressive.  I stammered over random words for a few minutes while confusing him further.  It's not easy to define and furthermore it's not a strict definition.  Bands from Pink Floyd to Tool have been labeled progressive while neither band sounds anything like the other. It's not a specific sound or even style. It's more about breaking through the boundaries of music and introducing something fresh, among other things.

[puppyonacid]

I like the idea of literal sounding music genres!

Here are a few that spring to mind:

The blues




Rock



Metal



Country (well....close enough).

[?]

The latest "James on CIM" thread brought this thought to my mind: while James' range was godlike in the I&W days and he reached some impressive notes, I think he overused the gritty vocal style and the high screams. Of course his vocals sound cool on those early live releases and bootlegs, but the original vocal melodies (on both WDADU and I&W) sound more pleasant to my ears and I think the raspy tone sounds a bit too aggressive on the I&W stuff, although it fits Awake perfectly. In the few bootlegs from the ADTOE tour I've heard James sounds better than ever IMO.

[Sycsa]

I like the idea of literal sounding music genres!

Rock?

[Lucien]

Came up with a new name for a debut album due to you guys:


The Divide Between Stone and Steel

[gmillerdrake]

Came up with a new name for a debut album due to you guys:


The Divide Between Stone and Steel

Sounds cool.......but its more like the next book title for the Game of Thrones series.

[Lucien]

Came up with a new name for a debut album due to you guys:


The Divide Between Stone and Steel

Sounds cool.......but its more like the next book title for the Game of Thrones series.

Wait really

[rumborak]

Came up with a new name for a debut album due to you guys:


The Divide Between Stone and Steel

Any album with the word "steel" in its name will get pigeon-hold in a microsecond.

[Zook]

It's a great title for a Manowar album.

[gmillerdrake]

Came up with a new name for a debut album due to you guys:


The Divide Between Stone and Steel

Sounds cool.......but its more like the next book title for the Game of Thrones series.

Wait really

Not 'really'.....I just think it sounds like a perfect title to fit that Series

[AngelBack]

Probably not all that controversial to many, but I think DT12 may make it into my top 3 DT albums and I have never once thought that from ToT forward.

[TheGreatPretender]

Probably not all that controversial to many, but I think DT12 may make it into my top 3 DT albums and I have never once thought that from ToT forward.

Depends on the person, but I totally agree with you. I really think they've made an amazing album, and while it won't be my #1, it's absolutely amazing that they made an album this great this far into their career. Not that I ever doubted they could.

[Lucidity]

Probably not all that controversial to many, but I think DT12 may make it into my top 3 DT albums and I have never once thought that from ToT forward.

I think it's in my bottom two or three.

[wasteland]

The bottle synth solo in Along For The Ride exceeds his older brother's (BTS) already remarkable level of awesomeness.

[aprilethereal]

The bottle synth solo in Along For The Ride exceeds his older brother's (BTS) already remarkable level of awesomeness.

I agree. AFTR exceeds BTS's level of awesomeness in general imo, and BTS is one of my favourites from ADTOE.

[djentlemen]

DT was better with MP, even though ADTOE and DT12 are great albums, they really lack that DT feel. the music just sounds like its from another band.



man i miss MP

[Mebert78]

DT was better with MP, even though ADTOE and DT12 are great albums, they really lack that DT feel. the music just sounds like its from another band.



man i miss MP

I actually feel the opposite and think things are a step up from when MP was in the band.  For one, MP's lyrics were also personal rants, but JP and JM craft their words in such a way that the topics are relatable to the masses.  I also find DT's music much more consistently beautiful post-MP, which I tend to like.  But it's just a matter of preference, I suppose!

[?]

The bottle synth solo in Along For The Ride exceeds his older brother's (BTS) already remarkable level of awesomeness.

I like both solos equally, but as a song I vastly prefer BTS, even though AFTR is nice and one of the few highlights of DT12 for me.

[snapple]

FII is a classic DT album.

[BanksD]

Constant Motion, Lie, and Anna Lee are 3 of my favorite DT songs.

[Sycsa]

Enigma Machine is in the top 3 on DT12.

[425]

DT was better with MP, even though ADTOE and DT12 are great albums, they really lack that DT feel. the music just sounds like its from another band.



man i miss MP

I agree with parts of this. Dream Theater w/ MM does sound quite different from Dream Theater w/ MP. But really, that's always been the case for DT whenever they got a new member. Does Dream Theater w/ KM sound quite different than Dream Theater w/ JR? Yes, of course it does! I think it's that way simply because of the way they write songs.

So, yes, we're in a new era of DT with a new sound. And yeah, I would love to hear a new Dream Theater album with Mike Portnoy (where would he have taken them next after BCSL?), even though I love Mangini and think he's definitely a better fit for the band. Much like how I would love to hear a new Dream Theater album with Kevin Moore, even though I love love love Jordan and think he's a better fit than KM was.

Ultimately, though, I don't want MP back. I think the band, particularly JM and JLB, are happier now, and I am excited to hear the great music that they will create in this new style. I think, while they are stylistically different from the other DT albums (then again so are the first four very different from SFAM-BCSL, and often different from each other), that these last two are among the best albums of their career, with many consistently good songs and a number of great songs.

Then again, I'm one of those fans that adores 99% of what the band has put out and I would probably put at least one song from every single album in my top 20. What I've found is that I'm adapting to the new style and learning to love it (successfully), just as I had to adapt to the JR albums as compared to the KM albums when I got those.

[XB0BX]

Systematic Chaos + Black Clouds is the BEST pair of consecutive albums in DT's catalogue, not the worst.

[jsem]

Systematic Chaos + Black Clouds is the BEST pair of consecutive albums in DT's catalogue, not the worst.

Lol.

[Zook]

Systematic Chaos + Black Clouds is the BEST pair of consecutive albums in DT's catalogue, not the worst.

Go home XBOBX, you're drunk.