EXTREME: "Rise" from "Six" --- June 9, 2023

[WilliamMunny]

First listen done and I must say I'm underwhelmed. Didn't have an issue with the sound on spotify but a lot of the melodies and riffs sound kind of generic and like I've heard them before in similar form. And Beautiful Girls is them trying to go for a trivial feelgood latin pop summer hit and it's annoying as hell. What were they thinking?

Edit: Second spin was better, maybe this is a grower? Cherone sounds really good and Nuno's sometimes trying to channel his inner EVH.

And Beautiful Girls is still annoying as hell.

Dropped in to share my thoughts, and I'm pretty much aligned with this assessment.  I had really high expectations after Rise, which I still feel is the hands down standout track on the album.  The rest of the singles are good, not great, and there's a significant drop in quality after them.  I'll give it a few more runs through, but I'm not getting the best feeling that there's much to 'grow' from here.

Well, I am sad to say that I am going to echo both of you—after a handful of listens, I think I am done with this one. Similar to Saudedes, this album is super front-loaded, and after "Rainbow" (my favorite song), the album nose-dives.

That said, I think this is easily the worst thing (for me, at least) in their catalog, and I am pretty bummed. Happy I didn't shell out any cash for this.

At this point, I think I'm in a similar spot with Extreme that I am with Winger–I LOVE one album (like, all-time top-10 level love), I LIKE a couple more, but that's it.

Three-Sides is a gem deserving of all the praise it receives...this is, well, not even in the same ballpark.

Still, Gary sounds great, and Nuno still shreds, and the band is definitely a great act live, so there's that.

Honestly,

[Samsara]

I got through the first five or six tracks on the way into the office. Doesn't help my assessment much because the first four tracks are the keepers for me. But I did find myself liking the fifth and sixth tracks more. Noticed the Queen vibe a bit. Could indeed be a grower.

But to echo others - "Beautiful Girls" is trash.

[hefdaddy42]

Just had my first listen through.

I always look forward to the variety of styles we get with Extreme, but I must say, Beautiful Girls is a real, um, standout.

I'm not saying I hate it, necessarily, but I do not love it.

[WardySI]

Yeah BG is a little jarring LOL musicality fine just those lyrics.  Wish they'd left it as a bonus/hidden track or something but  hey, there's those that like it so to each their own and all 

[Samsara]

Had the back half of the album on during my commute home last night, and then the album on continual playback during my travels around town last night and this morning. It's growing on me. The Queen vibes are big time. The Mrs. noted she hears a lot of Queen I and Queen II. She also agreed with me that the use of electronica harkens back to Tribe of Judah. So it IS growing more on me. I guess my "issue" (aside from thinking "Beautiful Girls" is a crap song) is that I've been expecting this proggy epic, and there's nothing here.

SdR was, for me, a throwaway album. A few good songs. I had high hopes for Six. But really, it's only four good songs, and then some better filler to pull the record above SdR. I also really don't like they worked with an outside writer. It's not that they recorded someone else's songs, but Gary and Nuno wrote with another person outside of the band on almost every song. That's really concerning to me. Why? Why do that?

Overall, a solid record. It'll never approach III Sides or Porno for me. Six is probably going to sit in the 5th slot of their catalog for me after III Sides, Porno, Punchline, and the self-titled. I do REALLY like the four singles. I do. And I dig X-Out. But it's a bit hill to climb to get the top of Extreme's catalog, and Six just won't get there. Particularly with my annoyance about the outside writer influence.

[EPICVIEW]

ive not spent a lot of time with this CD but part of me wishes they allowed the songs to exhale a bit ...they wind some tension in the songs at times that idk why seem to miss the mark with me.. I wanted to actually like BG but the lyrics and contrived nature of it just doesnt click with me but I dont hate as it has some nice musical elements but its a miss also.  not a fan of their live show from the clips ive watched meh... Id still give six a solid B- as of today

[Stadler]

Had the back half of the album on during my commute home last night, and then the album on continual playback during my travels around town last night and this morning. It's growing on me. The Queen vibes are big time. The Mrs. noted she hears a lot of Queen I and Queen II. She also agreed with me that the use of electronica harkens back to Tribe of Judah. So it IS growing more on me. I guess my "issue" (aside from thinking "Beautiful Girls" is a crap song) is that I've been expecting this proggy epic, and there's nothing here.

SdR was, for me, a throwaway album. A few good songs. I had high hopes for Six. But really, it's only four good songs, and then some better filler to pull the record above SdR. I also really don't like they worked with an outside writer. It's not that they recorded someone else's songs, but Gary and Nuno wrote with another person outside of the band on almost every song. That's really concerning to me. Why? Why do that?

Overall, a solid record. It'll never approach III Sides or Porno for me. Six is probably going to sit in the 5th slot of their catalog for me after III Sides, Porno, Punchline, and the self-titled. I do REALLY like the four singles. I do. And I dig X-Out. But it's a bit hill to climb to get the top of Extreme's catalog, and Six just won't get there. Particularly with my annoyance about the outside writer influence.

See, that's enough to get me to listen.  I haven't heard a song yet - I don't really do the streaming pre-release; I have yet to do that and have a fair reckoning of the album - but I'll probably buy it because I like Extreme and I like that reference. 

My order:
Three Sides
Pornograffiti
s/t
Saudages of Rock
Waiting For The Punchline

To be honest, I only really listen to the first three, and REALLY really, only the first two.  That's more because they are OUTSTANDING records than it is the others suck, but it is what it is.

[Kwyjibo]

It definitely gets better with repeated listens but I think the title Six is aptly chosen, can't see it overtaking the other five records in my personal ranking.

And I'm still a little disappointed that they couldn't come up with better songs in the last 15 years.

My ranking as of now:
Three Sides
Punchline
Porno
Saudades
S/t
Six

[Samsara]

And I'm still a little disappointed that they couldn't come up with better songs in the last 15 years.

Agree with this entirely. And longer, honestly. SdR wasn't good at all. A couple good tracks, but overall, not good. The first four singles from Six are undoubtedly the best on the record. Where is the epic? Where is the funk? They left key elements of their core band sound off the album.

[bosk1]

Two hot takes:

1.  I had owned PG and III Sides at some point in time.  I liked the band, but didn't love them.  Saudades got me to buy their back catalog and is easily my favorite album from them.  And it's the only one that I find myself going back to and wanting to listen to from start to finish rather than just wanting to listen to a specific song or two.

2.  BG is a fun song.  I love that they do weird stuff like this that is far from what they are "known" for, and I think they often do the more oddball stuff better than the more "traditional" Extreme stuff. 

[Kwyjibo]

I don't think Beautiful Girls is a bad song because it's not "traditional" Extreme. I think it's a bad song because it's trite and annoying with those dumbed down drum beats, that off-beat guitar chords I've heard a 1000 times before and that pseudo latin pop feel.

[devieira73]

Two hot takes:

1.  I had owned PG and III Sides at some point in time.  I liked the band, but didn't love them.  Saudades got me to buy their back catalog and is easily my favorite album from them.  And it's the only one that I find myself going back to and wanting to listen to from start to finish rather than just wanting to listen to a specific song or two.

2.  BG is a fun song.  I love that they do weird stuff like this that is far from what they are "known" for, and I think they often do the more oddball stuff better than the more "traditional" Extreme stuff.

I was avoiding to post in this thread because it seemed I was the only one to think like that. Saudades is the only Extreme album that I love.
The new one is really cool, I think it's better that the first 4 and not so good than Saudades. Ok, I guess just because I'm not a proper Extreme fan.

[Samsara]

Funny how music strikes people so differently. bosk is always a little off-kilter anyway. 

I listened to SdR again...it's just there. Honestly, it feels like a less punchy version of Six. I dig Comfortably Dumb and Star. And maybe a couple others, but that's really it. And Six is the same - I like the four singles, and a couple others but that's about it.

III Sides and PG are pretty much the band's bedrock. That is who they are as a band. And as a fan, I am fine with them experimenting and pushing forward. But the songs need to be there. And for the most part, the last two Extreme records (SdR and Six) have not been full album listens of good tracks, IMHO.

[Kwyjibo]

Two hot takes:

1.  I had owned PG and III Sides at some point in time.  I liked the band, but didn't love them.  Saudades got me to buy their back catalog and is easily my favorite album from them.  And it's the only one that I find myself going back to and wanting to listen to from start to finish rather than just wanting to listen to a specific song or two.

2.  BG is a fun song.  I love that they do weird stuff like this that is far from what they are "known" for, and I think they often do the more oddball stuff better than the more "traditional" Extreme stuff.

I was avoiding to post in this thread because it seemed I was the only one to think like that. Saudades is the only Extreme album that I love.
The new one is really cool, I think it's better that the first 4 and not so good than Saudades. Ok, I guess just because I'm not a proper Extreme fan.

Why avoid this thread because you think you have a different opinion than some of the others here? You like what you like and that's the way it should be. And if we all liked the exact same records it would be absolutely boring discussing music here.

I mean, I think Load is the best Metallica record by a mile, so there's that. 

[devieira73]

Yes, you are right. "Avoiding" was maybe a bit strong word. It was more like to not want to take the conversation to somewhere that noboby else cares but me.  Just to not kill the flow of the thread.
I recognize all the effort on the music and production Extreme put on PG and III Sides, I just don't connect with the style. I like much more their 2000's more straight hard rock approach.
It's interesting that I have a similar take on bands like Winger and Europe. I also don't care about their classic era, but I really like some of their newest albums.
By the way, Load is great, among Metallica 's best for sure!

[Samsara]

Yes, you are right. "Avoiding" was maybe a bit strong word. It was more like to not want to take the conversation to somewhere that noboby else cares but me.  Just to not kill the flow of the thread.
I recognize all the effort on the music and production Extreme put on PG and III Sides, I just don't connect with the style. I like much more their 2000's more straight hard rock approach.
It's interesting that I have a similar take on bands like Winger and Europe. I also don't care about their classic era, but I really like some of their newest albums.
By the way, Load is great, among Metallica 's best for sure!

Never be afraid to discuss something that you're worried no one else will care about. That's what a discussion forum is for.

[TAC]

Oh, then in that case......

[Samsara]

Oh, then in that case......

 

Example Numero Uno. We put up with TAC and Stads' "hot takes" every day, and love em for it! 

[King Postwhore]

Tim's takes are the Mount Everest of takes though. Lol

[devieira73]

Sure! But let's admit these guys really have a charm in doing so...

[King Postwhore]

That's why I pount it out every chance I get. Lol

[Kwyjibo]

Lately I'be been warming up to The Mask, it's different and simple but those monotonous verses in combination with that more energetic chorus makes for a good song.

Is that Nuno singing the verses?

[Stadler]

Oh, then in that case......

 

Example Numero Uno. We put up with TAC and Stads' "hot takes" every day, and love em for it! 

How did I get sucked into this madness?!?!? ! 

[Samsara]

How did I get sucked into this madness?!?!? ! 

'Cause you like it. 

[jingle.boy]

Beautiful Girls is a fun little track.

Thicker Than Blood on the other hand ...  That's tripe.

[Kwyjibo]

Beautiful Girls is a fun little track.

Please tell me you forgot to put this in green. 

[jingle.boy]

Beautiful Girls is a fun little track.

Please tell me you forgot to put this in green. 

I could tell you that, but I'd be lying.

[Samsara]

As much as I like a good chunk of the record, it bothers me a lot that Nuno and Gary worked with outside writers on most of the tracks. No one in the media has brought that up (mostly because the "media" is full of too many bloggers these days who just want to kiss bands' ass, as opposed to asking actual questions) and I'm really disappointed that it is flying under the radar.

Why, after 15 years, did Nuno and Gary need to bring in some dudes to co-write their songs? I think they did it on a song on SdR, but Six is literally filled with outside writers working with them. That's just absolutely odd to me, given how great Nuno and Gary are as a songwriting team. Thoughts?

[WilliamMunny]

As much as I like a good chunk of the record, it bothers me a lot that Nuno and Gary worked with outside writers on most of the tracks. No one in the media has brought that up (mostly because the "media" is full of too many bloggers these days who just want to kiss bands' ass, as opposed to asking actual questions) and I'm really disappointed that it is flying under the radar.

Why, after 15 years, did Nuno and Gary need to bring in some dudes to co-write their songs? I think they did it on a song on SdR, but Six is literally filled with outside writers working with them. That's just absolutely odd to me, given how great Nuno and Gary are as a songwriting team. Thoughts?

Count me in as perplexed.

Your thoughts on the media are spot on–Trunk had Nuno for an hour (and Beato did a solid two) and neither really dove into this topic. It's a shame, because while I disagree with the approach, a solid explanation might shift my perspective a bit.

As for why the band went down this road–the best I can figure is one of two reasons:

A: They sincerely thought that seeking some outside writers would infuse the album with a 'contemporary' edge that would aid them in whatever constitutes as 'airplay' these days.

B: They were at a creative crossroads (Nuno spoke about how they had been intermittently tracking for a decade), going in circles, and needed an outside perspective to help get things going.

If the reason is A, then I am really confused because no-one is going to confuse Extreme with Drake. These days, the best a band can do is put their best foot forward and hope their aging fanbase comes along for the ride.

I get that Nuno has the Rhianna connection, but there is nothing on this album that is going to cross over to pop radio.

If the reason is B, then I at least understand it a little bit better, as I have been in that situation myself many times.
Sometimes, especially when their are multiple creative forces, you get stuck in a stalemate and can't go forward because no one is on the same page. One guy wants it to sound 'modern,' one guy wants it sound 'retro,' and one guy wants to add a rapping part (I've literally been there...ugghh).

Still, I'd argue that an outside producer can provide this role, and the band can still keep the actual writing in house. I mean, this album kinda sounds awful, so perhaps an extra set of ears behind the mixing board is where they should've called in those favors.

[King Postwhore]

I would think since Nuno is a gun for Hire, he wrote with other musicians and had to credit them once he brought the music to Gary and thy worked it out to what Extreme is happy with.  Legally, if you write with someone, they need to be credited. 

[Stadler]

I don't know; I can't say I'm behind the scenes here, but every interview I've read has talked about the writing synergies between Gary and Nuno.  If Wikipedia is to be believed (I don't have the album yet), nine of the 12 songs have a non-band member contributing.   It's not the same person each time, and it doesn't break down whether the co-writer is lyrics or music or both, so it's not like a "Mutt Lange" thing.   I would tend to give a pass here.   Nuno hasn't put out any substantive new music since Saudages in 2008, so that's 15 years.  Nuno is not a sit-around kind of guy, having worked with Rihanna, Perry Ferrell, and others.  While it COULD be a result of a dearth of ideas, I can imagine this is could also be about honoring ideas where they come from and these songs have seeds elsewhere. 

Kris Kristofferson wrote almost all his own songs; his biggest hit - Me And Bobby McGee - also credits Fred Foster.  Foster used to say the phrase that later became the title around the office of Monument records (one of the receptionists/secretaries was a Bobbie McKee). 

[ReaperKK]

As much as I like a good chunk of the record, it bothers me a lot that Nuno and Gary worked with outside writers on most of the tracks. No one in the media has brought that up (mostly because the "media" is full of too many bloggers these days who just want to kiss bands' ass, as opposed to asking actual questions) and I'm really disappointed that it is flying under the radar.

Why, after 15 years, did Nuno and Gary need to bring in some dudes to co-write their songs? I think they did it on a song on SdR, but Six is literally filled with outside writers working with them. That's just absolutely odd to me, given how great Nuno and Gary are as a songwriting team. Thoughts?

I didn't realize they worked with outside writers but if they did they search craigslist for them? The album, especially the lyrics blow pretty hard.

[Stadler]

I would think since Nuno is a gun for Hire, he wrote with other musicians and had to credit them once he brought the music to Gary and thy worked it out to what Extreme is happy with.  Legally, if you write with someone, they need to be credited.

And sometimes it's a bone; see above with Fred Foster.  "Midnight Rider" by Gregg Allman is the same way; his roadie gave him the line "I've gone past the point of caring; some old bed I’ll soon be sharing." but the bulk of the song is Gregg's.

[WilliamMunny]

I would think since Nuno is a gun for Hire, he wrote with other musicians and had to credit them once he brought the music to Gary and thy worked it out to what Extreme is happy with.  Legally, if you write with someone, they need to be credited.

That's a good point I hadn't considered.

Yes, if Nuno's 'bag o' riffs' that he brought to the band had stuff he'd worked up in other situations, him crediting others is a stand-up move.

Still, since no one's really asked, it's difficult to know for sure.

[King Postwhore]

Yup. It still may be that Nuno did bring in writers.  I still believe he's played so much with other musicians and wrote parts or idea jamming with others that he has to credit them.