The Official Alter Bridge Thread v. PAWNS & KINGS

[Samsara]

Nice recap. I knew about Flip being into Living Colour. The couple times we were able to exchange a few words, I told him how Corey Glover and I went to the same school briefly. And B Marsh - we talked about Rush and Iron Maiden. Good stuff. They don't nearly get the credit they deserve.

Flip has come a LONG way since the Creed days. His drumming is a lot more nuanced now and he's evolved into one hell of a drummer.

BMarsh has been criminally underrated from the get-go. That fat tone and some of the cooler stuff he puts behind songs that have more space in them -- he knows exactly what he's doing and never gets the love he deserves. My daughter is going to bring a "B-Marsh Bass God" sign to some of the shows this next tour. I'll tell her to decorate it with the Rush star man. Maybe he'll take it from us. We love that guy. Myles and Mark get all the glory, and rightly deserved, but Brian Marshall has been one of my favorite bassists for a long, long time.

Nice recap, Anguyen. Glad you enjoyed the whole experience. I'm excited to see AB five times on two coasts early next year and hoping a third U.S. leg is planned for the fall that will include my local area. Alter Bridge is such a great live band. Oh, and funny, they played Lover, and on their social media, I mentioned they should keep it in the main set for the U.S., and whoever does their social media (I think it's Mark's brother or someone on his team), gave it a thumbs-up in replying to me. Hope that happens. Mrs. Samsara and I have been wanting that since 2013. Great tune.

Few more days until they start the Euro tour and we'll see if they are switching it up night to night.

[Samsara]

So, "Stay" has grown on me quite a bit. It's still not in the top tiers, but it really resonated. The only song I still don't feel is "Holiday," and it's just because of the way Myles sings that tune. I get they wanted something different, but it just doesn't do it for me.

[fadetoblackdude7]

So, "Stay" has grown on me quite a bit. It's still not in the top tiers, but it really resonated. The only song I still don't feel is "Holiday," and it's just because of the way Myles sings that tune. I get they wanted something different, but it just doesn't do it for me.

Can someone please enlighten me about how different he sings on Holiday? I can’t tell any difference.

[ariich]

New album is fantastic. I think they definitely have a clear top 3 now, with this one joining Fortress and Blackbird.

[fadetoblackdude7]

New album is fantastic. I think they definitely have a clear top 3 now, with this one joining Fortress and Blackbird.

Indeed! I think my updated ranking goes:

Fortress
Blackbird
Pawns & Kings
The Last Hero
Walk The Sky
AB III
One Day Remains

[Anguyen92]

So, "Stay" has grown on me quite a bit. It's still not in the top tiers, but it really resonated. The only song I still don't feel is "Holiday," and it's just because of the way Myles sings that tune. I get they wanted something different, but it just doesn't do it for me.

Can someone please enlighten me about how different he sings on Holiday? I can’t tell any difference.

When it comes to songs that sounds like it has more of an "attitude" to it, Myles seems to approach his vocals that he would when he sings with Slash.  Opinions on those kinds of songs are divisive.  I do rate Holiday on the low end of the album, but there are some things I like about it.  I like the intro of it.  It reminds me of Coming Home.

[Samsara]

So, "Stay" has grown on me quite a bit. It's still not in the top tiers, but it really resonated. The only song I still don't feel is "Holiday," and it's just because of the way Myles sings that tune. I get they wanted something different, but it just doesn't do it for me.

Can someone please enlighten me about how different he sings on Holiday? I can’t tell any difference.

Anguyen summed it up well. It's just the sort of attitude in his voice singing a less serious lyric. I don't HATE it, but the vibe (as the band admitted) is very unlike the rest of the record, because they thought they needed a bit of a less lyrically heavy approach. I disagree. lol. But it's not a bad song.

Regarding the lists and such. I just don't know. Blackbird is still tops for me. But P&K is up there with Fortress and AB III in that mix right below Blackbird.

It's funny, there was this hunger and desire to just crush it on Blackbird by the band that they've never replicated. And the band freely admits that. They've said that when they sat down to write and record Blackbird, the future of the band, and the difficulties they had with Wind Up Records on One Day Remains (they had to buy themselves out of their deal with them) cast a shadow on the ability of AB to continue. So they wrote and played like their careers depended on it. You can hear that throughout, and on the b-sides that never made. That record...as a whole record, is their best work. There are songs I like better on other records. But as a whole album listening experience, Blackbird is tops for me.

Edit:

I'm going to say, after listening again this afternoon, that my AB ranking goes like this:

1. Blackbird
2. Pawns & Kings
3. /4. Fortress and AB III (they flip flop)
5. The Last Hero
6. Walk the Sky
7. One Day Remains

>>>>But all that said, I don't "dislike" any of the records. The outlier record is ODR. It's a one-guitar band and that's how the record was written. They really didn't become who they are with Myles until Blackbird. But even say Walk the Sky - I really like that album. I just find others stronger.

People may differ, but AB has consistently delivered amazing material, at least for me.

[Deadeye21]

First night of the tour tonight. Excited to see the setlist!

[lordxizor]

The outlier record is ODR. It's a one-guitar band and that's how the record was written. They really didn't become who they are with Myles until Blackbird.

I'd love to see them rework ODR to add the depth of Myles on guitar. I absolutely adore ODR. I listen to it regularly still. But I completely understand your point about AB not becoming who they are today until Blackbird.

[Samsara]

First night of the tour tonight. Excited to see the setlist!

Part of me wants to not be spoiled, but then part of me wants to know every detail!  I know I won't resist. ha ha ha.

I'd love to see them rework ODR to add the depth of Myles on guitar. I absolutely adore ODR. I listen to it regularly still. But I completely understand your point about AB not becoming who they are today until Blackbird.

I'd be up for that. I really love the SOUND of ODR. I think Ben Grosse did a great job. But yeah, it'd be cool if they went back in and gave it a fresh perspective (although I'd want Grosse to mix it, not Baskette and Moll). But I doubt it would ever happen the way that band is so tightly scheduled. Which is a bummer.

[Samsara]

So I went and looked at the setlist. The length is what I expected, song-wise, which shouldn't be a spoiler. It's an 18-song affair. But looking at the songs played, it doesn't look like 90 minutes. More like two hours. I'll refrain from saying anything further for a bit in case people don't want to be spoiled.

[Tomislav95]

I'm a bit disappointed because someone updated setlist yesterday and it was half wrong so they're not playing one of my favorite (more obscure) songs after all but other than that I'm pretty satisfied.

[Samsara]

I'm a bit disappointed because someone updated setlist yesterday and it was half wrong so they're not playing one of my favorite (more obscure) songs after all but other than that I'm pretty satisfied.

They will likely rotate a few songs, so I'd keep checking. What song were you hoping for?

Personally, I'm hoping they bring back out Show Me a Sign. I was fortunate enough to see it San Fran on the AB III tour. But apparently that was just one of a couple times they ever did it live. I'm also hoping to see Cradle to the Grave at some point.

[Tomislav95]

I'm a bit disappointed because someone updated setlist yesterday and it was half wrong so they're not playing one of my favorite (more obscure) songs after all but other than that I'm pretty satisfied.

They will likely rotate a few songs, so I'd keep checking. What song were you hoping for?

Personally, I'm hoping they bring back out Show Me a Sign. I was fortunate enough to see it San Fran on the AB III tour. But apparently that was just one of a couple times they ever did it live. I'm also hoping to see Cradle to the Grave at some point.

Tiny font for spoilers - Down to my last

[Samsara]

That would be a cool one. Fingers crossed.

[DTwwbwMP]

LOVE the band.....HATE their setlists! Way too lazy year after year!

[fadetoblackdude7]

LOVE the band.....HATE their setlists! Way too lazy year after year!

I can agree with this. They need to make it more exciting, and definitely add a couple more tracks from the new album!

[Anguyen92]

That's a funny thing about them and their process of creating a setlist.  They actually had a recent interview with everyone's favorite guy of topic lately, Eddie Trunk, about it and they are very well aware of the criticisms (I think Eddie Trunk asked proper questions about that in the interview).  These are their first shows in 2.5 years and they are trying to get a sense of familiarity for themselves and how to be a good live band again together, combined with their "mechanical" perfectionist approaches when it comes to performing (to a fault, sure).

That's something I will say that Slash as a solo act has over AB.  If Slash on any given day on tour say, "Why don't we try this song for tonight?" Myles will rise to the occasion and nail it.  I wish he has more faith in himself when it comes to the AB deep cut songs that he had huge parts in writing and that we love. 

I think I saw a picture somewhere on Social Media of a blurred piece of paper that has a 21 song list categorized in guitar tunings.  I don't know if that's the 21 songs they have rehearsed so far or otherwise.  I would be shocked if Dead Among the Living or Holiday doesn't get played.  I'm sure Stay will find its way somehow (to swap Waters Rising for the Mark Tremonti vocals song slot of the show).  Don't know if the other deeper songs like Fable of the Silent Son, Season of Promise, or Last Man Standing will be played.  I would love it if they do.  We'll see.  I also would like them to try some of the songs from Walk the Sky that they didn't play like Clear Horizon or Walking on the Sky, but that's wishful thinking.

Now that I got my passport in the mail this week, I so would love to book a trip to London to see them at the O2 Arena to see what the vibes are in an arena show.  Would also like to see Tremonti Sings Sinatra a few days later.  Wishful thinking.

[Deadeye21]

That's something I will say that Slash as a solo act has over AB.  If Slash on any given day on tour say, "Why don't we try this song for tonight?" Myles will rise to the occasion and nail it.  I wish he has more faith in himself when it comes to the AB deep cut songs that he had huge parts in writing and that we love. 

Myles will rise to the occasion and do it. He also doesn’t have to worry about “oh, I need to hit this riff this way and sing this note like this while I do that with my pedals”. A lot of the AB songs are two songs the entire way through, but Myles will often drop out and just sing. It’s a very different thing to just go all in on an AB song, since 95% of them are way more technical. Slash, he just has to sing it.

[Samsara]

Myles will rise to the occasion and do it. He also doesn’t have to worry about “oh, I need to hit this riff this way and sing this note like this while I do that with my pedals”. A lot of the AB songs are two songs the entire way through, but Myles will often drop out and just sing. It’s a very different thing to just go all in on an AB song, since 95% of them are way more technical. Slash, he just has to sing it.

This. AB is deceptively complicated. No, their songs aren't Dream Theater like, but Mark and Myles are usually playing two different things and if they haven't got it down, I don't blame them for being hesitant. It is MUCH easier to memorize lyrics and sing by itself. Add a guitar, and a more complicated style of playing and it becomes extraordinarily difficult.

Now, all that said, I am sure the 21-song list that Anguyen saw is legit. They've already said in the press they WILL play "Fable of a Silent Son." So I am sure that's on there. I'm sure "Stay" is too. They already swapped one song on the second night in that wasn't played on the first night. So it'll happen. The once nice thing about not seeing them until the U.S. legs, is that they'll really be rehearsed and the show will be very well cemented, so they'll probably be a lot more open to changing things around every show -- like they were on the Walk the Sky tour, where I think they had three different setlists where each one dropped and added a song or two.

We're two shows into a tour that spans five months (so far). They know what they need to do. They'll deliver.

As for songs that I'd like to see...I was fortunate enough to see them twice on the Walk the Sky tour.  Back-to-back shows. And while they swapped a couple new songs, I didn't see "Dying Light." So I'd like to see "Dying Light" and "Walking on the Sky" from Walk the Sky, but I doubt that's in the cards. As for older stuff, I'd love for them to play "Lover" and "Calm the Fire" from Fortress, and "Cradle to the Grave" from TLH. Will they? Doubtful, with a 17-18 song setlist.

But I'm big on supporting the latest record, so I am pretty confident we'll get "Fable of a Silent Son." I think they need to let go of old standards a bit though. I think they're under a mistaken impression that we'd rather have a song like "Open Your Eyes" instead of a deep cut. 85 percent of the people in attendance are hardcores. Go into the catalog and experiment.

[Kwyjibo]

Seems like I'm finally getting into this record. After a couple listens I felt it was same old Alter Bridge by numbers. A few more listens in and it is still not breaking new ground but I start to enjoy it. Very good effort.

The only songs I'm not keen on are Holiday and Season Of Promise, both have a chorus that's just not working for me.

[Anguyen92]

I don't want really say the following and I don't want to be that guy, but it would be an actual mistake if they actually don't play Open Your Eyes.  It's that and Metalingus that started it all.  The singalong in the bridge part of Open Your Eyes is basically the crowd's moment there.  Also, in Europe, since most of these shows are in really large theaters and arenas, most of the crowd there could actually be those that haven't seen AB for the first time, so they feel that they got to bring songs that best represent themselves as a live band, especially after 2.5 years break from it.  That stated, it's going to be really tough moving forward keeping Blackbird and Cry of Achilles on the same show if they are thinking about putting in Fable of the Silent Son.

[Samsara]

Metalingus is WWE. Gotta do it. Watch Over You - got exposure - gotta do it. Isolation - big single - gotta do it. Addicted to Pain - big single. gotta do it. Blackbird - iconic. Gotta do it.

Open Your Eyes was the band's first single ever, sure. But it's almost 20 years old, and honestly, it sounds like Creed, not Alter Bridge. In fact, I'm pretty sure that was a Creed track that Mark had lined up for them before they broke up. To be honest, it's annoying, and I think people want to see other things. I know I do.

It's time to move on from that tune.

[Deadeye21]

Open Your Eyes was the band's first single ever, sure. But it's almost 20 years old, and honestly, it sounds like Creed, not Alter Bridge. In fact, I'm pretty sure that was a Creed track that Mark had lined up for them before they broke up.

That’s an interesting take seeing as Stapp would never have been able to pull off that singalong section, nor would Tremonti have had such an epic solo in a Creed song. There’s maybe three proper solos in Creed’s first three albums, none of which sound anything like that.

And given the crowd reaction to that singalong section, I don’t think people are desperat3ly looking for something different on the setlist. I’m not. When Mark went through the list of songs that would definitely be included and didn’t say that one, I was like “well, this is a massive mistake”. Thankfully, it hasn’t gone that way.

[ReaperKK]

I would actually be disappointed if they didn't play Open Your Eyes. I love that song and to this day it's one of my favorite AB songs. Having some Creed sensibilities in AB isn't always a bad thing IMO. Sometimes I think AB can do with some more nuance like My Own Prison had.

[Anguyen92]

As much as my personal bias of not wanting Creed around, some of those songs in AB and the Tremonti solo band had those kinds of "sensibilities," were solid songs for me.  Life Must Go On had an intro that reminded me of the intro to My Sacrifice.  Last Man Standing's intro had something that did resemble something from the late 90s period.  For the Tremonti solo band, you got songs like The Things I've Seen and Fall Again and Unable to See.

I guess this goes back to something I've been observing when people on the internet made Creed a punching bag.  They always talk about Stapp and the vocals and the lyrics, but when that topic comes up, you never see them talk about the actual instrumental part of the music, which as we know, is top notch.

[ReaperKK]

This is going to sound like a crazy comparison but Creed, at the time, to me was like Limp Bizkit. A great band that was limited by the vocalist. Both bands had killer guitar players and a solid rhythm section. Hell Stapp wasn't even that bad to start but he got worse over time and I think the same can largely be said about Fred Durst.

[Adami]

This is going to sound like a crazy comparison but Creed, at the time, to me was like Limp Bizkit. A great band that was limited by the vocalist. Both bands had killer guitar players and a solid rhythm section. Hell Stapp wasn't even that bad to start but he got worse over time and I think the same can largely be said about Fred Durst.

I actually really like Scott Stapp, even if the later albums were more miss than hit. But he had a really great way of writing melodies, a good sense of diversity to his sensibilities, and I feel like AB has become a bit....samey in the vocal department. Obviously Myles is an better vocalist and singer, but I miss the diversity in the vocals. Not necessarily in approach or range, since Stapp had a very limited range, but he seemed creatively able to try new types of rhythms and melodies, which, given that Tremonti was writing almost the same type of chorus to every song, couldn't have been easy.

[Deadeye21]

As much as my personal bias of not wanting Creed around, some of those songs in AB and the Tremonti solo band had those kinds of "sensibilities," were solid songs for me.  Life Must Go On had an intro that reminded me of the intro to My Sacrifice.  Last Man Standing's intro had something that did resemble something from the late 90s period.  For the Tremonti solo band, you got songs like The Things I've Seen and Fall Again and Unable to See.

Oh, I have bad news about A Lot Like Sin off of Dying Machine then.

[Samsara]

re: Creed, Open Your Eyes, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I was, and I still am, a fan of Creed. Despite the public bashing of them as they got to be the biggest band on the planet for a time, I always found the moodiness of the music, along with Stapp's delivery to be captivating. One of my favorite concert memories is seeing them at Roseland in NYC. It was a few days prior (or a few days after, I forget) of Human Clay being released. They headlined with Our Lady Peace and another band opening. The power was incredible from those songs.

I still listen to Human Clay on regular rotation. (Less so the debut and Weathered, although I like them both a lot).

But Alter Bridge is a different beast entirely. And One Day Remains was written as a one-guitar band album, particularly Open Your Eyes. And what I meant by saying Open Your Eyes could have been a track meant for Creed - I don't mean the finished one. I am talking about the riff, the melody, all very Creed-like.

For me, there are other songs that should be featured in setlists from that record. I get why they do Open Your Eyes. But for me, if I had to choose between that, and say Down to My Last, or The End is Here, I'm going for those.

On another note, I've seen that AB is rotating one to two songs per night. That's cool. 

[Stadler]

This is going to sound like a crazy comparison but Creed, at the time, to me was like Limp Bizkit. A great band that was limited by the vocalist. Both bands had killer guitar players and a solid rhythm section. Hell Stapp wasn't even that bad to start but he got worse over time and I think the same can largely be said about Fred Durst.

I actually really like Scott Stapp, even if the later albums were more miss than hit. But he had a really great way of writing melodies, a good sense of diversity to his sensibilities, and I feel like AB has become a bit....samey in the vocal department. Obviously Myles is an better vocalist and singer, but I miss the diversity in the vocals. Not necessarily in approach or range, since Stapp had a very limited range, but he seemed creatively able to try new types of rhythms and melodies, which, given that Tremonti was writing almost the same type of chorus to every song, couldn't have been easy.

I'm kind of with you; I think Stapp is a bit of a lightning rod.  That people don't criticize the music of Creed doesn't mean that the other criticisms are right, or that the music doesn't deserve it's own critique.

[gzarruk]

I've been wanting to check this band out for a whil, and have only listened to a couple songs (one being the title track of their latest, and the other an older ballad of which I don't remember the title, but was one of the first search results on youtube), and really liked what I heard so far.

So, where should I start? Albums in chronological order? Start with their latest? Something else? Should I start with Creed first? Too many options

[fadetoblackdude7]

You can start anywhere, really - all of their albums are awesome. Blackbird and Fortress are the 2 most popular albums, the fan favs.

[lordxizor]

I personally would either go oldest to newest or newest to oldest. Seems weird to jump around to me. I usually go newest to oldest when I discover a band with a decent catalog already built up.

[Anguyen92]

I go with oldest to newest since they made a few subtle adjustments to their sound and approaches to writing songs album to album.

Aside from that, check out these two live albums as well.  Live From Amsterdam (back when the band was young, had a point to prove, and played like their lives depend on it).  Live at the Royal Albert Hall (where they played with an orchestra backing them).