Lonely Hearts Club Thread v. The Strong Grip

[bout to crash]

, the mental image.

Jackie, you are probably one of the most open minded females I have met.  As you know in NJ, the people here aren't quite so open minded, the fact that I am overweight is definitely a problem with getting "access" to a lot of the woman here.  Regardless, I didn't reach out to you last week because I knew you seemed busy, plus I honestly wanted some alone time for the week, do some soul searching in a way since I've been feeling like something is a little off.   I also had twice as much work as last trip so my flexibility was very low (besides Saturday morning before my flight when I made it to the Red Rocks Park).  Anyway, next time I'll hit you up, don't hate me!

I don't mind things being friendly between us (because I don't like having bad blood with people, and I can maybe shop in his liquor store without feeling hella awkward ) but didn't really want to open that door very wide.

This is how I feel with x dates.  I would always want things to end in such a way that if I saw you on the street I would feel comfortable saying hi and not have to result to crossing the street to avoid confrontation.  I was quite annoyed that tindersuccess was against this idea of just being friendly, not friends, but friendly.  Whatever, her choice and that's that.  I would have done the same thing with the weed guy, responded to be friendly, but not continue a conversation that may lead him to believe there was still interest.

Exactly. My hope is that he was just being friendly, but part of me thinks he was testing the waters because he's feeling lonely... which is why I didn't give him too much to work with. And yeah, I only really have one ex that I would cross the street (and more) to avoid, and that's because he's a fucking sociopath who probably still has it out for me after I "ruined his life" (i.e. told the woman who he was practically married to and who was supporting him that he was fucking me and smoking meth/fucking dudes/lying to her on an hourly basis).
Some other encounters might be awkward, but I wouldn't freak out if I saw the dudes.

And fiiine, I won't hate you

Yeah, I feel your pain with the weight thing though. I mean, I got some when I was a fat chick (and I mean really fat, not a few lbs overweight), but didn't have very much luck. Fat girls do get fetishized a bit and therefore laid, but most people wouldn't have given me a second glance and most of the people who slept with me didn't want to date me.

But really, anybody who won't give you a chance due to weight alone is hella shallow. I understand if it's not your thing, but even then... there were dudes I wasn't initially attracted to, but when I got to know them that changed. 

Funny story: my first college boyfriend was quite a chunky dude, and my second college boyfriend was a stick. Second guy actually said one time that he felt insecure about whether I liked him because of his weight, because the first one had been fat ... I was like dude, I have no type. Fat, skinny, bodybuilder, whatever. Sure, if you asked me to draw my "ideal" he or she might look a certain way (like Nicolas Cage, either sex) but that doesn't mean anything at all. I've dated/screwed quite a wide variety of colors, weights, heights, ages. It's alllll good. The Jackalope don't discriminate.

[cramx3]

Here's the problem with the weight for me.  Dating today and finding a person is so different than it used to be.  Before I became single a year and a half ago, I met all my gf's through friends.  They got to know me and over time they started to like me because of who I was, not necessarily my looks.

Today it's different.  Sure you can go down the path I used to, but I don't really know many single people anymore, let alone girls, or even girls who could introduce me to single girls.  My best path to meeting someone is through online dating.  That means swiping and that like which results in no one actually knowing you, but judging you almost exclusively by your looks.  So if you are overweight, it's a struggle to get liked by girls for that reason alone.  Granted, I've been able to find girls and all, but I feel like my potential is not high enough and I can open the door to many more if I just lost some weight.

We shall see if my theory works, but that requires me to get to that point first.  Regardless, even if my motive wasn't for "getting girls" losing weight is a good thing regardless for my own health and well being.  In fact, my brother lost 20 lbs over the last couple months so I am joining him on having a healthier household.

[bout to crash]

Awesome! And yeah, that's a good point about the online dating versus meeting people organically. For me, appearance of course plays a role in attraction but a huge portion of it is mental and the kind of vibes a person sends out. I know people I've been initially attracted to have totally turned me off with their attitude or lack of confidence, and vice versa. But yeah, if somebody isn't even willing to give you a chance because of a few extra pounds, then none of that matters.

[cramx3]

Awesome! And yeah, that's a good point about the online dating versus meeting people organically. For me, appearance of course plays a role in attraction but a huge portion of it is mental and the kind of vibes a person sends out. I know people I've been initially attracted to have totally turned me off with their attitude or lack of confidence, and vice versa. But yeah, if somebody isn't even willing to give you a chance because of a few extra pounds, then none of that matters.

Yea totally.  I'm all about personality in a girl.  Looks are important and it's part of the initial attraction, but it's the personality that keeps me coming back (if I like it).  But you hit it, if you don't get the chance to show off your personality, then none of it matters. 

[Stadler]

What about bars?  I don't mean meatmarkets and what not, but I know for me, when I was going through and immediately after my divorce, there was a good Irish gastro-pub around the corner from me that was a nice mix of locals (it was the place the other servers, cooks and bartenders would go to after their shifts) and college students (UConn law was around the corner).   They also ran trivia one night a week, and ran movies another (I don't think that was totally aboveboard, but whatever), and bands a third night.   And it worked out because I would sit at the end of the bar, and I got to know the bartenders, and would literally talk to just about whoever would sit next to me.  I got more phone numbers doing that than I could ever call.  There's no problems with looks, because they see you, and you can strike up a convo and show off your humor/smarts/suave/whatever you're packin'.   

[cramx3]

Yea, bars are an option, but my problem is I don't particularly like hanging in bars during the week.  But more importantly, I'm ridiculously shy when it comes to approaching someone in that situation.  I've tried before, and failed.  I have never once in my life successfully picked up a girl at a bar (or anywhere for that matter) so I don't see it as a realistic option that will work for me.  But it is an option and maybe if I work on my game a bit more I can make that scenario work, but like I said, I really don't like just chilling in bars by myself anyway, especially during the work week where I rarely even go out since I'm usually just wanting to relax when I get home.

[Prog Snob]

Fourth time in the last week I've asked this girl to hang out and I'm still getting no's.

[cramx3]

Fourth time in the last week I've asked this girl to hang out and I'm still getting no's.

Is she not interested then?

[Prog Snob]

I don't know. I mean, if someone is showing interest and you keep turning them down, I would assume that if you really wanted to see this person, you would offer them a solution instead of continuing to reject them. I am just getting a bad feeling now. I haven't messaged her since then because I am trying to avoid coming off strongly because, right now, I'm really getting irritated with this.

[cramx3]

I don't know. I mean, if someone is showing interest and you keep turning them down, I would assume that if you really wanted to see this person, you would offer them a solution instead of continuing to reject them. I am just getting a bad feeling now. I haven't messaged her since then because I am trying to avoid coming off strongly because, right now, I'm really getting irritated with this.

Yea, sounds like the ball is in her court.  This the same one that you really liked, your ex's friend?

[Prog Snob]

Yes. She seemed like a straight-shooter. I feel like if she really doesn't want to get together then she needs to come out and say it. Right now, I feel like she playing the odds game and seeing if I'll eventually stop asking her and leave her alone if she keeps rejecting me.

[cramx3]

Yes. She seemed like a straight-shooter. I feel like if she really doesn't want to get together then she needs to come out and say it. Right now, I feel like she playing the odds game and seeing if I'll eventually stop asking her and leave her alone if she keeps rejecting me.

Damn that sucks since you seemed into her, but sadly I agree.

[Prog Snob]

It's frustrating. It's something I expect from a girl in her 20s, not from a mother of two who is 40. I'm trying really hard not to message her. I want her to come to me if she does want to get together.

[cramx3]

It's frustrating. It's something I expect from a girl in her 20s, not from a mother of two who is 40. I'm trying really hard not to message her. I want her to come to me if she does want to get together.

But isnt this part of the dating game?  Bait and hook?  You sent the bait out to her, multiple times, and she has not caught.  It's all about patience and waiting so I would say give it time before you message her again.  Typically for me, in this scenario, I'd give it a couple days, if no response I send the nice "So I get the feeling you aren't interested, I thought you were a really great person, best of luck in the future and feel free to reach out to me whenever you'd like" and see how she reacts.  I've done that before and had girls come back and give me excuses and then attempt to meet up, but honestly, if it's gotten to that point it always ends either on that message or shortly after because if there was real interest it would not have gotten to that point anyway.  But I like to go out on top and on good terms so I usually say something along those lines to get it off my mind and move on.

[Prog Snob]

That's why I'm not messaging her right now. I'd wind up saying something snarky. I wear my heart on my sleeve so I can't pretend to be okay with something if I'm not. I'll just wait a couple of days and see what happens.

[cramx3]

Exactly, once you let the emotions get involved (since I know you like this girl) then it's a lot easier to completely blow it by saying something stupid or even just saying too much. 

[Prog Snob]

Which is something I have done in the past. 

[Stadler]

It's frustrating. It's something I expect from a girl in her 20s, not from a mother of two who is 40. I'm trying really hard not to message her. I want her to come to me if she does want to get together.

But isnt this part of the dating game?  Bait and hook?  You sent the bait out to her, multiple times, and she has not caught.  It's all about patience and waiting so I would say give it time before you message her again.  Typically for me, in this scenario, I'd give it a couple days, if no response I send the nice "So I get the feeling you aren't interested, I thought you were a really great person, best of luck in the future and feel free to reach out to me whenever you'd like" and see how she reacts.  I've done that before and had girls come back and give me excuses and then attempt to meet up, but honestly, if it's gotten to that point it always ends either on that message or shortly after because if there was real interest it would not have gotten to that point anyway.  But I like to go out on top and on good terms so I usually say something along those lines to get it off my mind and move on.

In my view, this part of dating is all about how willing you are to walk away.  It's really crap shoot as to whether she's hoping you'll go, or seeing how interested you are.   One thing I've noticed (not here, I mean generally) is just how many scared people there are in the world.  Not scared to talk, or interact, but to actually take a leap.  To commit.  I don't mean "commit" in a long term relationship but commit to putting themselves out there.

Cram, that's one of the reasons I suggested the bar thing.  You can't really just walk in for a beer and walk out a half hour later and expect any results, but I'm talking about establishing bona vides.   Be seen.  I didn't want to be home (for fear I'd commit a felony; j/k) so I'd take my crossword puzzles and go hang out.  Listen to music, play trivia, whatever.  After a time, people will recognize you (and vice versa).   Maybe even a bartender will do you a solid.    You don't need a line; just ask questions.  People will talk about themselves all night long if you let them. 

[Prog Snob]

I used to do that. I would sit in a bar and eventually started to make friends with everyone but the women that came in were usually arm candy for someone else. I did get to meet a lot of interesting people though.

[cramx3]

I think it's a very solid idea and besides being proof that it can work, it seems pretty obvious that it can.  However, sitting at a bar is just not me per se.  I always feel so uncomfortable going to a bar alone (and I've only done it on business trips).  But you are right, over time you get to know people and become more comfortable and whatnot.  Maybe I will come out of my shell a bit and try that out, but I think for now, I want to focus on my image.  It's best for my health and my own confidence which I will admit, is lacking at the moment.

[bout to crash]

And like I said, that right there is so important. Your confidence level totally comes through even if you don't want it to. I'm a firm believer in taking some time to work on your own shit, whatever it is, if you need to. Sure it's nice to have someone, but it's not sustainable if you're in a bad place or feeling crappy about yourself. I think that's why I've mostly been keeping to myself lately, despite the fact that I am dating people casually. It's not my confidence that needs work right now, just my mental state. Work has been kinda shitty and is always exhausting, and I really don't have a lot to give to others right now. It's not right or wrong, it just is. It's about recognizing that stuff and doing what you can to "fix" it before dragging another person inot your shit.

[cramx3]

And like I said, that right there is so important. Your confidence level totally comes through even if you don't want it to. I'm a firm believer in taking some time to work on your own shit, whatever it is, if you need to. Sure it's nice to have someone, but it's not sustainable if you're in a bad place or feeling crappy about yourself. I think that's why I've mostly been keeping to myself lately, despite the fact that I am dating people casually. It's not my confidence that needs work right now, just my mental state. Work has been kinda shitty and is always exhausting, and I really don't have a lot to give to others right now. It's not right or wrong, it just is. It's about recognizing that stuff and doing what you can to "fix" it before dragging another person inot your shit.

Totally feel you on that Jackie.  You've stated almost exactly how I feel and kind of the state of mind I am in right now, if I can't take this time to invest in myself then I can't give that time to invest in someone else.  Thinking back, I went from a nine year relationship with one girl to a year and a half with maybe 20 different dates in that time coupled with the 79,000 miles traveled mostly for work.  That's kind of a big change and a lifestyle that maybe I was and am not prepared for.  So it is what it is and I'm going to push through.  I'm hoping by Memorial Day I am feeling good about my body (and in my mind) and ready to hit the summer hard with my new beach bod   

[Prog Snob]

So she messaged me earlier. The conversation went like this.

Her: How was work??
Me (10 minutes later): It was ok. You?
Her: Not bad. At school now. Watching Rainman.
Me (15 minutes later): Good movie
Her: Yes I've seen it a bunch of times lol

That was it. I think my point got across.

[Adami]

So she messaged me earlier. The conversation went like this.

Her: How was work??
Me (10 minutes later): It was ok. You?
Her: Not bad. At school now. Watching Rainman.
Me (15 minutes later): Good movie
Her: Yes I've seen it a bunch of times lol

That was it. I think my point got across.

Not to be rude or blunt, but doesn't that stuff just get........boring after a while? Wouldn't you rather someone you can just have a direct conversation with, without all this passive aggressive games nonsense?

[Prog Snob]

It has been just over a week. We started talking last Tuesday. Thursday we went out and had a great time. I had a really good feeling about her for multiple reasons. Every day since then she always had something else to do and the conversations have been weakening. Today I asked her if she wanted to get something to eat after work and it was something else. How many times does someone have to get turned down without the other person making a conscious effort to notice what they're trying to do and say something in return? I'm not doing this for any other reason than to see if she really does have an interest in me. I'm tired of being the one who always speaks up because it's the right thing to do. Let someone come to me for a change.

[Adami]

Whatever works for you man. We all do what we want to do in the end.

Hope it works out.

[Prog Snob]

It doesn't work for me, but it'll get me a real answer quicker.

[Adami]

It doesn't work for me, but it'll get me a real answer quicker.

Doubtful.

Want an answer? Ask a question.

[Prog Snob]

I knew that was going to be your response. However, I've been down that road. The answer I get is, "oh, I do want to hang out. I've just been busy." A week later. Same question. Same response. And I get dragged on for weeks until she finally decides to say what the truth was all along and she just felt bad telling me. Doing it my way forces her to either let it go because it doesn't really matter or act concerned that we haven't spoken. You get a truer response when someone is obligated to make the first step. At least that's how I've seen it in my experiences.

[Adami]

I guess I just tend to avoid people who need such games to communicate. If a girl won't tell me what's up, why would I stick around? Why fight for a relationship when such a precedent has been set?

But like I said, we'll do what we want to do.

[Prog Snob]

I'm not doing anything right now. If she doesn't say another word to me, then the silence has spoken volumes. As much as it irritates me when someone can't just come out and say how they feel, I was really hoping she was true to her words. It's so ironic, because a couple of days after we started talking, she put this up on her Facebook page.

[cramx3]

So are you saying that is a message towards you?  Have you considered the possibility of her talking to other guys?

So she messaged me earlier. The conversation went like this.

Her: How was work??
Me (10 minutes later): It was ok. You?
Her: Not bad. At school now. Watching Rainman.
Me (15 minutes later): Good movie
Her: Yes I've seen it a bunch of times lol

That was it. I think my point got across.

What point are you trying to make here?  Seems like she might have been trying to have a conversation since she started it and she even followed up your "good movie" with another message (which to me, implies trying to keep a conversation). 

[Prog Snob]

If she wants to talk to other guys, that's fine. She owes me nothing except the decency of letting me know what's going on so I can decide what I want to do.

Geez, my point seemed so much better during the conversation yesterday. I don't want her to think that this is going to be one-sided. I feel like past experience with me is that I'm the lap dog that comes running when they have time for me. I'm not doing that anymore. I don't want a texting buddy.

[cramx3]

My point about that quote pic was that I see girls doing that all the time, I wouldn't put much thought into it as in having a meaning towards you because well girls are crazy and trying to understand the motive for things like that is probably not worth the effort.

And for the convo, I just don't understand what point you were making.  By not responding immediately what message were you sending?  By not continuing talking, what point are you making?  Trying to give her a taste of her own medicine?  Sometimes that feels good, and I am certainly guilty of doing it myself, but I don't think that ever actually works. 

I'm pretty big on the idea of if it's eating you up on the inside, then bring it up.  If the whole point is that you want to know how she feels about this, just got to ask her which, to me, is a much better way to go about things then play games.

Not trying to be harsh here, just honestly not sure where you are going with this so I ask these questions.

[Prog Snob]

I don't think the quote was meant towards me. I just thought it was ironic that she put that up but is not taking her own advice about letting someone know where they stand. .

As far as that conversation, I don't want to seem desperate. So, if I jump on the phone every time she sends a message, she's going to think everything is alright. In my eyes, it's not. I want to see if she has the interest in me, because right now I feel like she's still focused on me being her friend's ex.