Would DT 6.0 survive a flop?

[rumborak]

Was thinking about that yesterday. I was thinking back and got reminded how other bands, for example Extreme, had member fluctuations after a long period of steadiness, right before they completely disbanded. In the case of Extreme, the album with the new member was a flop, and so the fragile new construct didn't survive.

What's your thought? Say DT 11 is really not that good, for whatever reason. Do you think DT would survive it?

rumborak
P.S.: And if you want to be really creeped out: Extreme's replacement drummer was ........ Mike Mangini

[skydivingninja]

I think so.  It probably really comes down to the tour and whether there are enough DT fans who will see them without Mike.

[wolfking]

I'm sure they will be fine.  Their attitude at the moment seems very positive and give me the sense they will do just fine.  Album wise, it can't be any worse than SC, surely.

[5]

I think these guys are too determined for that. And they had their share of crises too, and they survived.

[EternalDancer]

I *liked* the Extreme album with the lineup change...

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

P.S.: And if you want to be really creeped out: Extreme's replacement drummer was ........ Mike Mangini

Now, that's something that lends in quite nicely for a conspiracy theory 

[ariich]

P.S.: And if you want to be really creeped out: Extreme's replacement drummer was ........ Mike Mangini

It's an interesting question though, hard to say. On the whole I think they all really love what they do and so would probably soldier on anyway, at least for another couple of albums.

[Lowdz]

The end of Extreme was more down to changing their style, jumping onto the Grunge bandwagon which was killing the melodic rock scene they were a part of.

[antigoon]

With the kind of fan base they have I don't know if a flop is even possible.

[Super Dude]

What goon said.

[tri.ad]

With the kind of fan base they have I don't know if a flop is even possible.

Actually, this. No matter how the release will turn out musically, I'm sure that part of it will always accept and appreciate it (although the size and "target audience" may vary).

[Ben_Jamin]

I think most people here and other places will accept anything they do, if they change the structure of their metal songs, mainly the trade-off solos.

[hefdaddy42]

If they could survive FII, they can survive another flop.

[KevShmev]

Absolutely, they would survive it.  Hell, look at the number of internet fans who have been disappointed by some of their material over the past decade or so, and yet here we are all still big fans, still waiting for the next album, etc.  That is a huge credit to the band as a whole, as there is always that hope that they will knock one out of the park again.

[Super Dude]

@ Hef: Well yeah, but they followed it with an album considered by many at the time to be a huge hit.

[ReaPsTA]

Survive?  Yes.  They have enough dedicated fans and like what they're doing enough to continue.

But it would be a tough if not impossible road to coming back to where they are now.

[hefdaddy42]

@ Hef: Well yeah, but they followed it with an album considered by many at the time to be a huge hit.

Yes, which is what the album following the next would have to be, as well.

[ReaPsTA]

@ Hef: Well yeah, but they followed it with an album considered by many at the time to be a huge hit.

Yes, which is what the album following the next would have to be, as well.

I feel like they're already in that situation.  Imagine what would have happened if SFaM flopped?  That's kinda how I feel about what would happen if this one flopped.

[hefdaddy42]

@ Hef: Well yeah, but they followed it with an album considered by many at the time to be a huge hit.

Yes, which is what the album following the next would have to be, as well.

I feel like they're already in that situation.  Imagine what would have happened if SFaM flopped?  That's kinda how I feel about what would happen if this one flopped.

That doesn't make any sense.  BC&SL wasn't a flop.  FII was.

[Stoneyman]

Dude, the same 500,000 of us prog nerds who love them will stick with them. 

They arent "mainstream" enough to have a backlash.  DT is niche market, and as long as they dont release a real stinker (which I dont think any band with JP in it could do) they should be fine.

[ReaPsTA]

@ Hef: Well yeah, but they followed it with an album considered by many at the time to be a huge hit.

Yes, which is what the album following the next would have to be, as well.

I feel like they're already in that situation.  Imagine what would have happened if SFaM flopped?  That's kinda how I feel about what would happen if this one flopped.

That doesn't make any sense.  BC&SL wasn't a flop.  FII was.

But then Portnoy left, creating a similar question of whether DT can/should continue.

[Perpetual Change]

@ Hef: Well yeah, but they followed it with an album considered by many at the time to be a huge hit.

Yes, which is what the album following the next would have to be, as well.

I feel like they're already in that situation.  Imagine what would have happened if SFaM flopped?  That's kinda how I feel about what would happen if this one flopped.

That doesn't make any sense.  BC&SL wasn't a flop.  FII was.

But then Portnoy left, creating a similar question of whether DT can/should continue.

I don't think that was ever a legitimate question for most fans.

[antigoon]

It seems like it actually is, beyond us weirdos here.

[King Postwhore]

Was thinking about that yesterday. I was thinking back and got reminded how other bands, for example Extreme, had member fluctuations after a long period of steadiness, right before they completely disbanded. In the case of Extreme, the album with the new member was a flop, and so the fragile new construct didn't survive.

What's your thought? Say DT 11 is really not that good, for whatever reason. Do you think DT would survive it?

rumborak
P.S.: And if you want to be really creeped out: Extreme's replacement drummer was ........ Mike Mangini

Rumbo, You do know that the original Drummer from Extreme, Paul Geary, played on all songs but 3 on Waiting For The Punchline.  Also, with Extreme, it was a very long layoff between WFTP and Saudies. So I don't think this is a good example.  Mangini only played on 3 songs.

[lord-ruler]

The end of Extreme was more down to changing their style, jumping onto the Grunge bandwagon which was killing the melodic rock scene they were a part of.
[/quote
Nuno suddenly forgot how to play and recorded his solo album an liked it so much he quit the band.  Months later Gary was in Van Halen.    They could have kept going if Nuno had wanted to.   Having said that their last album was crap.

[atmyne]

I'm pretty certain DT11 is going to be bigger than ever. Their popularity has been accumulating over the years, and now with a new drummer and all things Portnoy related, including all the A7X fans who discovered DT, they will top their sales with BC&SL. In terns of being a band, i'm sure they will be fine. They still have 4 key members of the band, some of whom are stepping up to fill the void of Portnoy, and a drummer who will spice things up a bit (hopefully). If for whatever reason DT11 is not great musically, I'm sure they will continue. If not in terms of sales, I think there is a possibility that they will go their separate ways, doing solo projects and maybe one day a reunion (with Portnoy).

[SnakeEyes]

Sorry, but comparing DT to Extreme is ludicrous.  First of all, no offense to Extreme, but none of those guys are even in the same ballpark as DT in terms of being true artists.  I really like Extreme, but it's true.  Nuno is a great player, but he's more about being successful and rich than making artistic statements.  Petrucci, on the other hand, is more interested in creating works of substance (for the most part) rather than selling albums.  Just that difference between JP and Nuno invalidates the comparison.  

[RazielSR]

If the new album it's a flop, DT will go astray. But I don't really thing that'll happen. It is all in their hands right now.

[Funkafonik]

First of all, no offense to Extreme, but none of those guys are even in the same ballpark as DT in terms of being true artists.  I really like Extreme, but it's true.  Nuno is a great player, but he's more about being successful and rich than making artistic statements.

Sorry but you've just shown you really have no clue what you're talking about.... most ignorant comment about Extreme and Nuno I've ever read. Next.

[rumborak]

Rumbo, You do know that the original Drummer from Extreme, Paul Geary, played on all songs but 3 on Waiting For The Punchline.  Also, with Extreme, it was a very long layoff between WFTP and Saudies. So I don't think this is a good example.  Mangini only played on 3 songs.

Geary might have played most songs on WFTP, but even at the release of the album Mangini was the new drummer of Extreme, and the following tour was with him. So, at least to me, Mangini was the drummer of WFTP-era Extreme. Shortly after which they imploded.

Sorry, but comparing DT to Extreme is ludicrous.  First of all, no offense to Extreme, but none of those guys are even in the same ballpark as DT in terms of being true artists.  I really like Extreme, but it's true.  Nuno is a great player, but he's more about being successful and rich than making artistic statements.  Petrucci, on the other hand, is more interested in creating works of substance (for the most part) rather than selling albums.  Just that difference between JP and Nuno invalidates the comparison. 

This is such a ludicrous statement, it's unfathomable. If you consider Everything Under the Sun anything but an artistic statement, you lost all credibility right there.

rumborak

[King Postwhore]

BTW Rumbo, I saw them on the WFTP tour at the Orphium.  Great energy to that show.  I would say the demise of Extreme was that the average fan thought More Than Words was what Exteme was about.  We all knew better.  When they came out with III Sides, the music nuts like us loved that CD but the ballad fans jumped off the ship.  It was a blessing and a curse for them.

[Fuzzboy]

Sorry, but comparing DT to Extreme is ludicrous.  First of all, no offense to Extreme, but none of those guys are even in the same ballpark as DT in terms of being true artists.  I really like Extreme, but it's true.  Nuno is a great player, but he's more about being successful and rich than making artistic statements.  Petrucci, on the other hand, is more interested in creating works of substance (for the most part) rather than selling albums.  Just that difference between JP and Nuno invalidates the comparison. 

This is such a ludicrous statement, it's unfathomable. If you consider Everything Under the Sun anything but an artistic statement, you lost all credibility right there.

Yeah, I'm far from being an Extreme fan but I agree that that statement is pretty ridiculous

[cthrubuoy]

First of all, no offense to Extreme, but none of those guys are even in the same ballpark as DT in terms of being true artists.  I really like Extreme, but it's true.  Nuno is a great player, but he's more about being successful and rich than making artistic statements.

Sorry but you've just shown you really have no clue what you're talking about.... most ignorant comment about Extreme and Nuno I've ever read. Next.

Yeh, where are you getting that information from SnakeEyes?

[lord-ruler]

Rumbo, You do know that the original Drummer from Extreme, Paul Geary, played on all songs but 3 on Waiting For The Punchline.  Also, with Extreme, it was a very long layoff between WFTP and Saudies. So I don't think this is a good example.  Mangini only played on 3 songs.

Geary might have played most songs on WFTP, but even at the release of the album Mangini was the new drummer of Extreme, and the following tour was with him. So, at least to me, Mangini was the drummer of WFTP-era Extreme. Shortly after which they imploded.

Sorry, but comparing DT to Extreme is ludicrous.  First of all, no offense to Extreme, but none of those guys are even in the same ballpark as DT in terms of being true artists.  I really like Extreme, but it's true.  Nuno is a great player, but he's more about being successful and rich than making artistic statements.  Petrucci, on the other hand, is more interested in creating works of substance (for the most part) rather than selling albums.  Just that difference between JP and Nuno invalidates the comparison.  

This is such a ludicrous statement, it's unfathomable. If you consider Everything Under the Sun anything but an artistic statement, you lost all credibility right there.

rumborak

Yes but what has Nuno done since?  Mostly just unlistenable garbage.   He was still going strong in waiting for the punchline but there last album is horribly bad.

BTW Rumbo, I saw them on the WFTP tour at the Orphium.  Great energy to that show.  I would say the demise of Extreme was that the average fan thought More Than Words was what Exteme was about.  We all knew better.  When they came out with III Sides, the music nuts like us loved that CD but the ballad fans jumped off the ship.  It was a blessing and a curse for them.

Nuno was the cause of Extreme's downfall.   He made his album Shizophic (posing as a woman on the cover)  Then he decided he enjoyed having 100% control over his songs and he quit extreme.   After that he totally changed his way of playing and focused on singing and song structure over concentrating on playing his guitar which is a shame.   I would compare it to J.P leaving Dream Theater and joining a Kurt Cobain cover band.  Nuno even admits he does not practice all that much anymore.   Being in Rihana's band does nothing for his credability as an artist.

[robwebster]

@ Hef: Well yeah, but they followed it with an album considered by many at the time to be a huge hit.

Yes, which is what the album following the next would have to be, as well.

I feel like they're already in that situation.  Imagine what would have happened if SFaM flopped?  That's kinda how I feel about what would happen if this one flopped.

That doesn't make any sense.  BC&SL wasn't a flop.  FII was.

But then Portnoy left, creating a similar question of whether DT can/should continue.

FII was released after Kevin Moore left. ACoS softened the blow, sure, but it still had the eyes of the world on it.

I don't think an album released today could flop harder than FII did back then, given how much control they have over their own careers nowadays, and how confident and natural they've become at doing what they do. I think it's very unlikely, at this stage.