Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Outcrier]

Sorry dudes. Not even trolling. It's just incredibly cheesey to me, highly derivative and bleh. Give me Awake, SDOIT, BCSL, heck even FII, anyday.

If SFAM is incredible cheesy, what's left for BCSL then 

[sneakyblueberry]

With the exception of the verses in Nightmare and Tuscany, and BOT there isn't really THAT much cheese. And it's far more enjoyable haha

[Outcrier]

There's AROP keyboard solo too 

[BlobVanDam]

Not sure how controversial this is, but was just listening to TSCO the other day and realized that the solo in that song might be JP's best solo. I think it masterfully merges JP's shredding skills with his Gilmore-esque approach to the solo, to a level that no other solo of his does. When I was still in that DT tribute band, I was always looking forward to playing it.

Is that at all controversial? That solo is amazing!
Just the right amount of well placed shred, and a lot of sustained notes that require style to pull off. It's one of those things that separates JP from the typical shredder for me.
It's also just so well composed and constructed in terms of what notes he falls on for the chord changes, but still manages to have a ton of feeling and remain loose.

[Ruba]

I don't say TDOE is bad, but after three minutes it becomes kinda bland. I'm just like "guys, we all know you are masters of your craft, I'm already convinced. Can't you play something more melodic for a change?"

But we get something beautiful and melodic right afterwards. That's what I love about the arrangmenet of having TDOE right before One Last Time.

True, but The Dance of Eternity is still a half longer than it should be.

[KevShmev]

I don't say TDOE is bad, but after three minutes it becomes kinda bland. I'm just like "guys, we all know you are masters of your craft, I'm already convinced. Can't you play something more melodic for a change?"

But we get something beautiful and melodic right afterwards. That's what I love about the arrangmenet of having TDOE right before One Last Time.

True, but The Dance of Eternity is still a half longer than it should be.

I agree that it goes on for too long.  I, too, love the first three minutes or so of it, but the last several minutes are quite ponderous and always leave me thinking, "Alright guys, just get to the next song."  By far the only lag time on the Scenes record.

[Prog Snob]

I don't say TDOE is bad, but after three minutes it becomes kinda bland. I'm just like "guys, we all know you are masters of your craft, I'm already convinced. Can't you play something more melodic for a change?"

But we get something beautiful and melodic right afterwards. That's what I love about the arrangmenet of having TDOE right before One Last Time.

True, but The Dance of Eternity is still a half longer than it should be.

I agree that it goes on for too long.  I, too, love the first three minutes or so of it, but the last several minutes are quite ponderous and always leave me thinking, "Alright guys, just get to the next song."  By far the only lag time on the Scenes record.

I don't mind the long bouts of self-indulgence.  It's one of the things I love about these guys, showing off the extreme technical side.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

The Beautiful Agony section of A Nightmare to Remember is my least favorite part of the song.

[Zook]

The Beautiful Agony section of A Nightmare to Remember is my least favorite part of the song.

You and your wacky opinions.

[Crow]

The Beautiful Agony section of A Nightmare to Remember is my least favorite part of the song.

I don't disagree but I don't think it's the best part of the song either, the intro exists so. And it's not that exceptional by DT standards, either.

[Viking of the Sagas]

Seriously? What makes DT standards so much more 'high-quality' than just 'standards'? It just honestly seems like you apply to authority(in this case, DT) in order to make your own standards more acceptable by other people.

[BlobVanDam]

The Beautiful Agony section of A Nightmare to Remember is my least favorite part of the song.

I don't disagree but I don't think it's the best part of the song either, the intro exists so. And it's not that exceptional by DT standards, either.

Sure it is.
To me that section is better than any section off ADTOE (although the BITS chorus comes close), and most of DT12 (DT12 does have some equally good or better stuff, mostly in IT, and STR).

Seriously? What makes DT standards so much more 'high-quality' than just 'standards'? It just honestly seems like you apply to authority(in this case, DT) in order to make your own standards more acceptable by other people.

I get tired of that one too.

[TheGreatPretender]

Seriously? What makes DT standards so much more 'high-quality' than just 'standards'? It just honestly seems like you apply to authority(in this case, DT) in order to make your own standards more acceptable by other people.

Opinion. But frankly, I'm definitely one of the people who considers DT on a higher echelon of standards compared to other music. Their sheer musicianship is definitely the main reason, not only that, but the caliber of each and every band member. I mean, there are bands out there with exceptional guitarists, or exceptional drummers, or keyboard players, or vocalists, but to have a 5 piece band where each and every member is a god of their instrument, it's rare. And not only that, but they do make full use of their gifts, by bringing the full extent of their musicianship into their music, and exercise utmost creativity with the kinds of complex song structures as well as the actual musicianship.

To me, comparing DT to a band like, let's say, Megadeth, is like comparing Inception to something like Taken. Yes, Taken is an awesome action movie and excels at what it sets out to do, but Inception is more than just an action movie, it's an amazing visual and audio experience.
And I can understand why someone may want the former, based on what they're looking for in music. Personally, movie wise, I'd take Rambo and Taken over Inception or Dark Knight any day, that's just the kinds of movies I prefer to watch on a day to day basis. But that's my preference, I wouldn't say that Taken is a better film than Inception. Even though I still loved Inception, and still enjoy movies that are more grand, or that challenge my intellect, not just give me fighting and explosions.
But when it comes to music, the kind of experience and mastery that Dream Theater provides is something I can never get enough of, even though sometimes, I'm in the mood for something simpler.

[Prog Snob]

The Beautiful Agony section of A Nightmare to Remember is my least favorite part of the song.

I don't disagree but I don't think it's the best part of the song either, the intro exists so. And it's not that exceptional by DT standards, either.

Sure it is.
To me that section is better than any section off ADTOE (although the BITS chorus comes close), and most of DT12 (DT12 does have some equally good or better stuff, mostly in IT, and STR).

Definitely one of the highlights of recent DT songs, but definitely not the best.  The part after the solo in Wither is on of the highlights of BC&SL and lets not forget the brilliance of TCOT, especially from the acoustic part at 14:20 to the end of the song.  That is up there as one of the best DT moments in my opinion. 

[King Postwhore]

Beautiful Agony is the best part of the song then it rips into the solo.  That whole section is amazing.

[BlobVanDam]

The Beautiful Agony section of A Nightmare to Remember is my least favorite part of the song.

I don't disagree but I don't think it's the best part of the song either, the intro exists so. And it's not that exceptional by DT standards, either.

Sure it is.
To me that section is better than any section off ADTOE (although the BITS chorus comes close), and most of DT12 (DT12 does have some equally good or better stuff, mostly in IT, and STR).

Definitely one of the highlights of recent DT songs, but definitely not the best.  The part after the solo in Wither is on of the highlights of BC&SL and lets not forget the brilliance of TCOT, especially from the acoustic part at 14:20 to the end of the song.  That is up there as one of the best DT moments in my opinion. 

TCOT has a lot of stellar moments in it. The unison in the intro is one of their best of any era (and that whole intro is amazing), and that outro acoustic section is beautiful.

[Prog Snob]

The Beautiful Agony section of A Nightmare to Remember is my least favorite part of the song.

I don't disagree but I don't think it's the best part of the song either, the intro exists so. And it's not that exceptional by DT standards, either.

Sure it is.
To me that section is better than any section off ADTOE (although the BITS chorus comes close), and most of DT12 (DT12 does have some equally good or better stuff, mostly in IT, and STR).

Definitely one of the highlights of recent DT songs, but definitely not the best.  The part after the solo in Wither is one of the highlights of BC&SL and lets not forget the brilliance of TCOT, especially from the acoustic part at 14:20 to the end of the song.  That is up there as one of the best DT moments in my opinion. 

TCOT has a lot of stellar moments in it. The unison in the intro is one of their best of any era (and that whole intro is amazing), and that outro acoustic section is beautiful.

An almost flawless song?  Would you agree?

[BlobVanDam]

An almost flawless song?  Would you agree?

I find the vocal melodies/sections don't hold up to the quality of the rest of the song, but musically the song is pretty damn good. I don't have a problem with the lyrics either. The quirkiness fits the music perfectly.
So definitely not flawless for me, but a great song overall.

[Prog Snob]

An almost flawless song?  Would you agree?

I find the vocal melodies/sections don't hold up to the quality of the rest of the song, but musically the song is pretty damn good. I don't have a problem with the lyrics either. The quirkiness fits the music and perfectly.
So definitely not flawless for me, but a great song overall.

I get what you mean about the vocal melodies. They almost seems unorthodox.

[BlobVanDam]

An almost flawless song?  Would you agree?

I find the vocal melodies/sections don't hold up to the quality of the rest of the song, but musically the song is pretty damn good. I don't have a problem with the lyrics either. The quirkiness fits the music and perfectly.
So definitely not flawless for me, but a great song overall.

I get what you mean about the vocal melodies. They almost seems unorthodox.

The problem for me is that the verse melodies simply follow the progression implied by the guitar/keyboard chords, then the pre-chorus is basically spoken (ie. no melody at all), so it's not as interesting as it could be. The chorus is good, and has nice harmonies, but it doesn't make up for the rest.
I don't think the vocal sections are bad, but they don't have the same amount of care and detail as the music does imo.

[KevShmev]

The problem for me is that the verse melodies simply follow the progression implied by the guitar/keyboard chords, then the pre-chorus is basically spoken (ie. no melody at all), so it's not as interesting as it could be. The chorus is good, and has nice harmonies, but it doesn't make up for the rest.
I don't think the vocal sections are bad, but they don't have the same amount of care and detail as the music does imo.

Totally agree.  I always say that if minutes 4-9 were as awesome as the rest of the song, it could have been a top 5 DT song for me.  Like you said, those minutes aren't bad or anything; they just aren't great like the rest of the song.  But as is, the song is still pretty great. 

[Prog Snob]

I'm making wine in my basement by the way. Who wants to come see?   

[Viking of the Sagas]

Okay, let's go.

[Ruba]

The Beautiful Agony section of A Nightmare to Remember is my least favorite part of the song.

I don't like it that much either, but no way it's worse than the Portnoy-core.

[Outcrier]

Seriously? What makes DT standards so much more 'high-quality' than just 'standards'? It just honestly seems like you apply to authority(in this case, DT) in order to make your own standards more acceptable by other people.

I get tired of that one too.

DT fans overrate DT 

[bl5150]

- the best DT albums by some way are the bookends (WDADU,I&W, Awake, ADTOE and DT12)..and by implication......
- WDADU is top 5
- SDOIT Disc One is the low point of DT albums
- Octavarium and SFAM are over rated.
- the only song off SFAM I listen to regularly is Fatal Tragedy
- BC&SL is better than the 3 or 4 albums that preceded it
- 6.00 is the weakest track on Awake and Bridges In The Sky is the weakest on ADTOE (although I still do rate BIIS...6.00 I could live without)

[BlobVanDam]

- the best DT albums by some way are the bookends (WDADU,I&W, Awake, ADTOE and DT12)..and by implication......
- WDADU is top 5
- SDOIT Disc One is the low point of DT albums
- Octavarium and SFAM are over rated.
- the only song off SFAM I listen to regularly is Fatal Tragedy
- BC&SL is better than the 3 or 4 albums that preceded it
- 6.00 is the worst track on Awake and Bridges In The Sky is the worst on ADTOE

Is it opposite day again already?

The Beautiful Agony section of A Nightmare to Remember is my least favorite part of the song.

I don't like it that much either, but no way it's worse than the Portnoy-core.

Oh boy, another anti-MP term to add to the DTF vocabulary. Just what we needed.

[TheGreatPretender]

DT fans overrate DT 

Oh please, every band has fans like that.
Have you ever listened to hardcore Led Zepplin fans, or hardcore Beatles or Pink Floyd fans?

[wolfking]

- the best DT albums by some way are the bookends (WDADU,I&W, Awake, ADTOE and DT12)..and by implication......
- WDADU is top 5
- SDOIT Disc One is the low point of DT albums
- Octavarium and SFAM are over rated.
- the only song off SFAM I listen to regularly is Fatal Tragedy
- BC&SL is better than the 3 or 4 albums that preceded it
- 6.00 is the worst track on Awake and Bridges In The Sky is the worst on ADTOE

Some of these opinions are pretty fucking crazy.  The bolded one is strange, either it's better than 6 Degees or not.

[Bolsters]

- WDADU is top 5
- SDOIT Disc One is the low point of DT albums

[bl5150]

- the best DT albums by some way are the bookends (WDADU,I&W, Awake, ADTOE and DT12)..and by implication......
- WDADU is top 5
- SDOIT Disc One is the low point of DT albums
- Octavarium and SFAM are over rated.
- the only song off SFAM I listen to regularly is Fatal Tragedy
- BC&SL is better than the 3 or 4 albums that preceded it
- 6.00 is the worst track on Awake and Bridges In The Sky is the worst on ADTOE

Some of these opinions are pretty fucking crazy.  The bolded one is strange, either it's better than 6 Degees or not.

Gimme a break - I've only been here 5 mins   

In my opinion people who call others opinions fucking crazy are fucking crazy .........especially in a thread asking for controversial opinions. I thought at least I'd be safe here     I'm 39 and bought my first DT album 21 years ago , played plenty of these songs in a DT cover band etc.... so I'm not some Johnny Come Lately to DT who has formed opinion without thought or plenty of years as a fan. 

I'm sure I'd find some of your TASTE just as crazy but I'd have enough respect for an OPINION to   

Apologies for the vague reference to 3 or 4 albums.................I rate SDOIT Disc One as the lowest of any DT disc but rate Disc 2 at 90% (higher than BC&SL) which makes it a hard one to place.   If I was to include Disc One then make it 4 albums.

As I posted in my intro post I'm well aware that my preference for what I would call the more melodic DT albums is not the core feeling here but I have seen enough who agree with me to know I'm not Robinson Crusoe........

[wolfking]

Relax bro.

[Tom Bombadil]

You're opinions are indeed crazy, but so are mine so welcome to the club, bro.

[GasparXR]

DT fans overrate DT 

Oh please, every band has fans like that.
Have you ever listened to hardcore Led Zepplin fans, or hardcore Beatles or Pink Floyd fans?

Indeed! Every band has fans like that, because every band has fans that enjoy their music THAT much. One of my best friends is that kind of fan of all three bands, maybe a little less for The Beatles. Hell, I'm even a pretty huge fan of Pink Floyd.

[bl5150]

You're opinions are indeed crazy, but so are mine so welcome to the club, bro.

Cheers.................and yes , I will relax. I just expected to last longer than 5 posts without being called fucking crazy - give me 6 or 7 at least   


DT are certainly a polarising band.   When I first checked out The Enemy Inside on Youtube ( a track I love and which every DT fan I know loves)I couldn't believe all the bile and abuse being thrown around on the Youtube comments etc....

In the end I'd be quite happy (from the output to date) to just live with I&W, Awake, ADTOE and DT12 most of the time ............the rest , aside from my 1-2 faves from each,  get very little airplay even though I rate WDADU , FII and BC&SL quite highly.   Images and Words is for me THE ultimate album by any band outside of Van Halen I (I rate both at 100%) but once you lose too much of what made that album so brilliant my attention wanes quite a bit.   I feel they have recaptured that on the last 2 albums.

Anyhow..........feels good to be back "on board" with the band after the last couple of releases and really anticipating/enjoying new material again - and not just the odd track.