Author Topic: Your Controversial Opinions on DT  (Read 998745 times)

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Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1400 on: August 23, 2013, 04:13:46 AM »
I loved KevMo more for his songwriting than his keyboard playing. He brought a very different melodic edge to the DT sound, and the band have never been as strong on the songwriting since.

I loved Derek for the fun rock n'roll vibe he brought to DT, kind of like Billy Powell from Lynyrd Skynyrd. Stopped DT from being too pompous and disappearing up their own rear-end (which they sometimes can be in danger of doing).

I love Jordan for his technical virtuosity, and some of the cool new keyboard sounds and arrangements he's brought to DT. I love his "xylophone" sound on the heavy sections, and that "squeaking penguin" sound he uses (how the hell do you describe these noises?) He's also probably the best "fit" for DT.

So in conclusion, all three of them were the best.
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Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1401 on: August 23, 2013, 04:25:43 AM »
I loved KevMo more for his lyric writing than his keyboard playing.

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Offline adastra

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1402 on: August 23, 2013, 04:27:59 AM »
I loved KevMo more for his songwriting than his keyboard playing. He brought a very different melodic edge to the DT sound, and the band have never been as strong on the songwriting since.

I loved Derek for the fun rock n'roll vibe he brought to DT, kind of like Billy Powell from Lynyrd Skynyrd. Stopped DT from being too pompous and disappearing up their own rear-end (which they sometimes can be in danger of doing).

I love Jordan for his technical virtuosity, and some of the cool new keyboard sounds and arrangements he's brought to DT. I love his "xylophone" sound on the heavy sections, and that "squeaking penguin" sound he uses (how the hell do you describe these noises?) He's also probably the best "fit" for DT.

So in conclusion, all three of them were the best.

This could have been written by me!  I agree on everything except that I don't know what the hell is squeaking penguin sound  :o
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Offline aprilethereal

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1403 on: August 23, 2013, 05:57:45 AM »
Snarling pig?

Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1404 on: August 23, 2013, 06:43:01 AM »
I'm at work at the mo - he uses it in Beyond This Life, a kind of staccatto squeak that sort of sound like a stuttering duck. I honestly can't describe it better than that!

And btw I meant KevMo's songwriting not just his lyrics.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1405 on: August 23, 2013, 07:11:58 AM »
Snarling pig?

it's also the intro to Never Enough.

Offline aprilethereal

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1406 on: August 23, 2013, 07:13:37 AM »
I know what the snarling pig is, I just guessed that's what he meant by "squeaking penguin" :smiley:

Offline Ruba

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1407 on: August 23, 2013, 09:35:48 AM »
-Soloing: DS
-Atmosphere: KM
-Cool new sounds: JR . I guess he is the only one experimenting with new sounds.
-Technique: JR
-Hair: KM
-Beard: JR
-Overall: DS KM by miles.

This is how I see it.

Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1408 on: August 23, 2013, 10:45:27 AM »
Here's a semi controversial one...


I wish UAGM and PMU (mainly PMU) sounded heavier on the album. Like they do live.
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline Lolzeez

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1409 on: August 23, 2013, 11:13:35 AM »
I prefer ice cream over cake.

Offline Dark Castle

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1410 on: August 23, 2013, 11:14:45 AM »
I prefer ice cream over cake.
Sick bastard.
I've never been a real big fan of Ice Cream.

Offline TheGreatPretender

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1411 on: August 23, 2013, 12:54:17 PM »
I'm at work at the mo - he uses it in Beyond This Life, a kind of staccatto squeak that sort of sound like a stuttering duck. I honestly can't describe it better than that!

And btw I meant KevMo's songwriting not just his lyrics.


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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1412 on: August 27, 2013, 07:49:17 AM »
This really shouldn't be controversial, BUT . . . . WDADU is one of the best albums the band has done. It has JM's best basslines, tons of Petrucci's best riffs and some of MP's best drumming. My favorite review of WDADU, copy/pasted from The Metal Archives:

Now here's an album for which my appreciation grows every day. Look beyond the strange, malnourished production (which I might add, sounds great when you crank it) and the emphatically un-James singer and you'll find one of the coolest damn debuts in metal history. This is insane, intricate, thoughtful, and theatrical power metal of the highest order, a progged-out feast for the ears and mind as these hyperspeed technicians bounce around the studio totally unencumbered by such concerns as restraint and maturity. Unlike later overburdened and underthought platters like Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence and Train of Thought, When Dream and Day Unite combines bohemian wankfest excess with structures that support, nay, demand their existence and melodies that pulsate with life and a burning heart full of love for fast, epic heavy metal.

This is like the culmination of early Queensryche and Fates Warning, combining the speed and frightwigged over-the-top neoclassical assault of 'Ryche (think the Queensryche EP or an amphetamized The Warning) with Fates' mist-shrouded mood, complex and bent structures, and overarching impression of size and power. "The Killing Hand" is a damn near awe inspiring example of how to take somebody else's characteristics and then blow them out of proportion and make them into something new and exciting. The blistering solos seem oddly weightless, keys and strings dancing through the night sky as if gravity were no concern. Other than one oddly disconcerting moment where we drop out of a truly amazing riffset into a melodic interlude, this song is a perfect example of how to build tension through dynamics. We've got a delicate intro, big-time power chords, epic vocals over acoustics, start building up the intensity, and then... riffs, riffs, glorious handfuls of golden riffs being tossed around willy-nilly while Dominici skulks around the laboratory mixing strange fizzing chemicals and cackling wildly.

The really effervescent thing about When Dream and Day Unite is how fresh all of the players are. Here's Kevin Moore experimenting with his canny atmospheric work, his regal leads, and of course his majestic and buoyant melodies that will soon bloom into the joyous conglomeration of Images & Words in which he is omnipresent and unforgettable. There's John Myung before producers and band pressures toned him down, providing an unshakeable rhythmic foundation but also playing some of the best bass leads I've ever heard. Seriously, the man is absolutely all over the neck here, refusing to be shunted aside by the traditional lead instruments and doing some jaw-dropping stuff whenever a space opens up. Mike Portnoy, bless his heart, cannot play a wrong beat. Even early on, in spite of the complexity of his play the guy had a great sense of feel and he manages to make his presence known without grandstanding quite as much as he does on later recordings. Check the solid stomp of "The Ones Who Help the Sun" (some of the coolest sounding kicks I've ever heard), the excellent little drum solo in "Ytse Jam", or the schizoid time changes in "Light Fuse and Get Away". And last but not least, Mr. John Petrucci on skullfrying axe-work. This stuff is passionate, headbangable, memorable, and unique and frankly, puts the similarly note-dense Train of Thought leads to shame. Every song has an incredible solo spot, from the swinging guitar heroics of "A Fortune in Lies" (absolutely godly shredding) to the "Afterlife" unison (along with that 'can do no wrong' riff, absolutely spot-on Shea), or in "The Ones Who Help to Set the Sun" where the usual shred showcase seems to go up and up until it explodes and surrounds the listener with shimmering notes aplenty.

Oh, I didn't mention the singer? Well, Charlie's excellent. His voice is willowy as hell and he partakes in one of DT's cheesiest moments "I am the killing haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...", but otherwise the guy does a hell of a job with the material. �Status Seeker" features some extremely passionate delivery, and the man brings life to some really difficult stuff such as Moore's hyperverbose "Only a Matter of Time" and "Light Fuse", as well as the bizarre fandango-thrash of "A Fortune in Lies". I grant you, his voice takes some getting used to and lacks force, but you couldn't ask for more emotion or sincerity than this guy provides. And hell, he's aged better than LaBrie has if the When Dream and Day Reunite DVD is any indication.

Oh, and I should add that lyrically this album is excellent. Although it is a bit stilted and leads to some interesting choices melody-wise, this is some cool poetry and leads to some really memorable lines. In general, obscure lyrics own the hell out of blatant, unimaginative lyrics. I'm looking at you "Endless Sacrifice" and "The Answer Lies Within".

Before I close this review out, I'll go into a little depth on the best track on the CD which is "Only a Matter of Time". While the first seven tracks on this album represent a strange proto-Dream Theater that would only sporadically pop-up in later years ("A Change of Seasons" is the last of the major Fates Warning influence, for example), "Only a Matter of Time" is a test-flight for the shining ebullient epics all over the next album. It begins with a brilliant symphonic keyboard introduction, almost like a fanfare, that gradually fuses with an aching guitar which dovetails nicely into the beginning of the first verse. It is on this song that Moore really defines the role of keyboards in Dream Theater's music. On previous tracks, he is a force and plays an important role in the song but on "Only a Matter of Time" he becomes a dominant force. Moore is absolutely everywhere, weaving brilliant melodies and breaks around his own amazing lyrics. This is a storehouse for some brilliant riffery, each verse given a different riff and vocal phrasing, constantly growing better and better as it rushes towards the massive outro with its imperative keys seeming to scream that time is running out on this stupendous record... the only thing I can about this song is that sometimes it is absolutely breathtaking. And so is this record.

Although they sometimes express some disdain for this record and these songs, and while it is emphatically the least popular Dream Theater record amongst fans, When Dream and Day Unite ranks as one of their absolute best works and is a must for any power, prog, or straight-up heavy metal fan. I tend to stay away from such recommendations, but this record has to face apathy from the band's fanbase and the lead weight of being released under the Dream Theater name, which might bar those who would get the most out of it from giving it a shot. This album rules.

Stand-Outs: "Only a Matter of Time", "A Fortune in Lies", "Light Fuse and Get Away"

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Offline ?

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1413 on: August 27, 2013, 08:28:12 AM »
WDADU is my 4th favorite album :)

Offline Enlil36

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1414 on: August 27, 2013, 08:43:09 AM »
Alright,this is my first post on here so...hi everyone!
My controversial opinions on DT are:

-BC&SL is my favorite DT album.
-Systematic is my second favorite.
-ADTOE is my fourth favorite. (For anyone wondering,SDOIT is the third)
-Prophets of War and Constant Motion are some of the best songs in SC.
-There is no DT song that I don't like,I love them all.(Except the screamed"BUIIILD,MEE UUUP"part in BMUBMD)
Of course some songs are better than others.
-Pull Me Under is not that great of a song.
-ADTOE ballads are the BEST ballads.  ;D
-Octavarium is one of the worst DT albums. (not counting the title track)
-Long DT songs are the best. (that's probably why my favorite album is Black Clouds ;D)

I think I said everything,bye :D

Offline Whatsername

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1415 on: August 27, 2013, 08:47:47 AM »
Welcome!

-Systematic is my second favorite.

Not sure I'd rate it as my 2nd favorite but I think overall it's a fun album with some really great moments.

-Pull Me Under is not that great of a song.

I sort of agree. I think it's highly overrated. That being said I think it's still a good song, but it's definitely eclipsed by some of DT's better songs.

-ADTOE ballads are the BEST ballads.  ;D

Other than BTS I don't like any of the ballads.



In fact, overall, I'm really not a fan of ADTOE. I get what it does, and it does it well, but overall I find the album rather boring. :\
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Offline Enlil36

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1416 on: August 27, 2013, 08:59:13 AM »
Quote
I'm really not a fan of ADTOE. I get what it does, and it does it well, but overall I find the album rather boring. :\

Yeah,lots of people think like you about ADTOE,in fact,I posted in the Controversial Opinions thread because of that ;D

Offline Whatsername

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1417 on: August 27, 2013, 09:02:09 AM »
Quote
I'm really not a fan of ADTOE. I get what it does, and it does it well, but overall I find the album rather boring. :\

Yeah,lots of people think like you about ADTOE,in fact,I posted in the Controversial Opinions thread because of that ;D

Really? I always thought I was in the minority. I've seen a lot of love for it so I figured I was weird or something.

Btw love the signature gif. :biggrin:
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Offline Enlil36

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1418 on: August 27, 2013, 09:07:11 AM »
Thanks :D
I think it's from OTBOA's music video ;D

Offline Ruba

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1419 on: August 27, 2013, 09:11:37 AM »
This really shouldn't be controversial, BUT . . . . WDADU is one of the best albums the band has done.

I agree  :metal.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1420 on: August 27, 2013, 09:19:12 AM »
I wouldn't call Pull Me Under overrated even if I didn't like it too much because it doesn't get a massive amount of love on this forum, at least compared to most I&W songs. In the latest (still unfinished) DT survivor PMU was the second song to be voted out from I&W.
-ADTOE is my fourth favorite. (For anyone wondering,SDOIT is the third)
-ADTOE ballads are the BEST ballads.  ;D
-Octavarium is one of the worst DT albums. (not counting the title track)
I can kind of agree on these, because ADTOE is my 3rd favorite album, I think it has some of the best DT ballads and Octavarium is a bottom 2 or 3 album for me.

Offline Whatsername

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1421 on: August 27, 2013, 09:20:54 AM »
I wouldn't call Pull Me Under overrated even if I didn't like it too much because it doesn't get a massive amount of love on this forum, at least compared to most I&W songs. In the latest (still unfinished) DT survivor PMU was the second song to be voted out from I&W.

Huh. I need to change my perceptions on these songs then. I always assumed that PMU was considered among the pantheon of untouchable DT songs considering it was their first big single.
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Offline wasteland

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1422 on: August 27, 2013, 09:23:00 AM »
The thing with PMU is that it's vay overrated by casual fans and criminally underrated by a part of the hardcore community. I am a proud lover of the song, and it should speak of my liking of IAW the fact that I'm forced to rank it second-to-last in the list of its best songs.
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Offline Whatsername

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1423 on: August 27, 2013, 09:25:31 AM »
The thing with PMU is that it's vay overrated by casual fans and criminally underrated by a part of the hardcore community. I am a proud lover of the song, and it should speak of my liking of IAW the fact that I'm forced to rank it second-to-last in the list of its best songs.

I guess that's fair. It's my second-to-least favorite on IAW I think, but true it's still a great song.



Controversial opinion maybe? I think UAGM is the worst song on IAW.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1424 on: August 27, 2013, 09:27:14 AM »
There is no worst song on I&W.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1425 on: August 27, 2013, 09:30:35 AM »
The thing with PMU is that it's vay overrated by casual fans and criminally underrated by a part of the hardcore community. I am a proud lover of the song, and it should speak of my liking of IAW the fact that I'm forced to rank it second-to-last in the list of its best songs.
Yeah, I think that description is accurate. If I was asked to rank the songs on I&W now PMU would probably be 5th or 6th.
There is no worst song on I&W.
This. There's only "least amazing" and that title belongs to Another Day, which is a great song nevertheless.

Offline Whatsername

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1426 on: August 27, 2013, 09:32:38 AM »
 :hefdaddy I accept that I clearly am silly and uninformed, and will rectify this immediately.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1427 on: August 27, 2013, 09:34:11 AM »
Being the worst song on IaW is like being the ugliest chick at the Playboy mansion.
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Offline Ruba

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1428 on: August 27, 2013, 09:34:29 AM »
I revisited ADTOE last night, listening six songs out of nine. Here are some of my thoughts.

OTBOA: still awesome. The pre-chorus is simply genius.
TITL: this song didn't really stand out before, and neither did now.
BITS: growing on me. Cool riffing, playing with rhythms and a soaring chorus, what more can I ask for, in a prog metal song? However, the vocal melodies in verses still sound a bit odd and I don't really like the instrumental section (aside solos).
Outcry: I'm really starting to like it. The song gives me chills every time, and it might be even my favourite on the entire album. One of the best choruses, maybe even the best in their discography. Lyrics are awesome, one major reason for the chills. And the picture in the album booklet is the icing on the cake.

But I'm not really sure what to think about the instrumental section. It has many bits I like, but I find the last minute unnecessary.
FFH: kinda personal song for me. Very beautiful, good ballad.
BAI: You know what? This song is overrated. Not by much, but still. Actually, my feelings to this song are opposite to many, many JR era songs. I prefer the instrumental section to sung parts. Especially the "Life's biggest battles" is too cheesy for me. But the instrumental is really creative and fun. The Pink Floyd-esque solo is JP at his best.

Not from ADTOE: Disappear is getting better with every listen.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1429 on: August 27, 2013, 09:35:36 AM »
Being the worst song on IaW is like being the ugliest chick at the Playboy mansion.
:metal
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Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1430 on: August 27, 2013, 09:43:54 AM »
This really shouldn't be controversial, BUT . . . . WDADU is one of the best albums the band has done...

Not controversial at all, at least not with me. There should be more love for WDADU.
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Online gmillerdrake

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1431 on: August 27, 2013, 09:49:10 AM »
This really shouldn't be controversial, BUT . . . . WDADU is one of the best albums the band has done...

Not controversial at all, at least not with me. There should be more love for WDADU.

It's unfortunate they essentially signed away their rights to that music....to where they can't go back and re-engineer or remaster those songs. The production is hard to take, but still some awesome music there.

It'd be neat to have a re-recorded version of WDADU.
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Offline Whatsername

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1432 on: August 27, 2013, 09:50:35 AM »
It's unfortunate they essentially signed away their rights to that music....to where they can't go back and re-engineer or remaster those songs. The production is hard to take, but still some awesome music there.

It'd be neat to have a re-recorded version of WDADU.

I did not know this happened. That is unfortunate since the production is always what's steered me away from WDADU.
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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1433 on: August 27, 2013, 10:08:15 AM »
It's unfortunate they essentially signed away their rights to that music....to where they can't go back and re-engineer or remaster those songs. The production is hard to take, but still some awesome music there.

It'd be neat to have a re-recorded version of WDADU.

I did not know this happened. That is unfortunate since the production is always what's steered me away from WDADU.
I don't recall the specifics, it was covered in 'Lifting Shadows' ....but it was something like they were all so excited about getting a record deal that they basically signed their rights away. If I remember correctly...and someone please chime in if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I read it....but I think they had a fairly lengthy legal issue as well to ultimately get out of their inaugural contract. I think that's how they 'lost' the rights to those songs.
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Offline Lucidity

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Re: Your Controversial Opinions on DT
« Reply #1434 on: August 27, 2013, 10:30:29 AM »
I must be the only one around here who hates Outcry...