The official Opeth thread v. Bring on the new album!

[?]

Just one week after the new Anathema album! The track titles sound pretty interesting...

[Zantera]

Yeah that's quite amusing. When has Opeth ever "challenged the boundaries of extreme music"? I mean, maybe on Orchid/Morningrise they were extreme, but even at that time, there were other bands doing extreme music. That line makes it sound like they are Mr. Bungle or something, lol.

I think this album will be good though. I thought Heritage was fine overall. Probably a bottom 3 Opeth album for me, but it wasn't awful or anything. I think they can improve the different sound on this album.

[Dark Castle]

Well going off what Mikael's said about the album, it doesn't sound like it's going to be extreme metal. 

The problem with Heritage isn't that it's terrible or anything, it's that it's so bland for most of the album, with a few songs that shine, and a couple short moments, and yes, I do think some harsh's sprinkled in at spots would have livened the songs up, especially since he still tried to have that Heavy followed by soft in a couple of spots on the album.

It also rubs me the wrong way that Mikael COMPLETELY changed the band's entire sound and just has a deal with it mentality. I've said it before, but Chuck Schuldiner knew how to do it when he retired Death and started up Control Denied. Sure Control Denied still has that indisputable Chuck riffage and musicianship from the guys on The Sound of Perseverance, but if Control Denied's album had been put out as a Death album, it would not have felt like Death at all. And that's how I feel Heritage is. Yeah it's got Mikael's very recognizable voice, and some of the musical tendencies that he has, but it sure doesn't feel like an Opeth album at all.

[Rattlehead]

I'm really excited for this one… I'll probably pre-order it so I can hear Cusp of Eternity in May 

[?]

Can't music be extreme without being metal?

[Rattlehead]

Can't music be extreme without being metal?

My thoughts exactly 

[KevShmev]

Can't music be extreme without being metal?

Of course. 

[Dark Castle]

Can't music be extreme without being metal?

yeah, but if it's not metal it's not extreme metal.

[KevShmev]

Okay, but the quote was, "The new material finds Opeth once again challenging the boundaries of extreme music."  Metal was not mentioned.

[Zantera]

Can't music be extreme without being metal?

It can be, but when they say something like "The new material finds Opeth once again challenging the boundaries of extreme music." and they haven't really made any extreme music before, the statement just feels wrong. This album might very well end up being experimental and extreme (though I doubt the latter), but when they haven't really been extreme before, it just feels wrong to phrase it like that.

But I guess it's understandable. You always gotta oversell things.   

[Dark Castle]

My bad, I thought I read metal, but still, I highly doubt anything will be extreme about the album, and I further doubt they're pushing any boundaries, seeing as Heritage was complete retreading of early prog rock that added little to nothing, except for some meandering jamming.

[KevShmev]

It also rubs me the wrong way that Mikael COMPLETELY changed the band's entire sound and just has a deal with it mentality. I've said it before, but Chuck Schuldiner knew how to do it when he retired Death and started up Control Denied. Sure Control Denied still has that indisputable Chuck riffage and musicianship from the guys on The Sound of Perseverance, but if Control Denied's album had been put out as a Death album, it would not have felt like Death at all. And that's how I feel Heritage is. Yeah it's got Mikael's very recognizable voice, and some of the musical tendencies that he has, but it sure doesn't feel like an Opeth album at all.

It might not sound like the Opeth of the old days, but it is their band, and they can make it sound like whatever they want.  If they released a new wave CD under the Opeth name, that would then be what Opeth sounds like now, not then.  I know some have a problem with Akerfeldt moving away from growls and crushing metal, but there is no rule that says they can't make whatever music they want under the same name.  If some fans have an issue with it, that is their problem, not the band's.

[Lolzeez]

Can't wait for the Boston-ish track! 

[Dark Castle]

It also rubs me the wrong way that Mikael COMPLETELY changed the band's entire sound and just has a deal with it mentality. I've said it before, but Chuck Schuldiner knew how to do it when he retired Death and started up Control Denied. Sure Control Denied still has that indisputable Chuck riffage and musicianship from the guys on The Sound of Perseverance, but if Control Denied's album had been put out as a Death album, it would not have felt like Death at all. And that's how I feel Heritage is. Yeah it's got Mikael's very recognizable voice, and some of the musical tendencies that he has, but it sure doesn't feel like an Opeth album at all.

It might not sound like the Opeth of the old days but it is their band, and they can make it sound like whatever they want.  If they released a new wave CD under the Opeth name, that would then be what Opeth sounds like now, not then.  I know some have a problem with Akerfeldt moving away from growls and crushing metal, but there is no rule that says they can't make whatever music they want under the same name.  If some fans have an issue with it, that is their problem, not the band's.

I fucking knew that that was what my post would be boiled down to. Did you actually bother to read my post? I'm not mad that it's not harsh anymore, and not teh metalz of yonder days, obviously bands change, Mastodon have big time, but you know what they still sound like Mastodon and should definitely still be called Mastodon. Heritage is just Mike wanting to bask in early prog rock, and using Opeth's well known name to emulate 70's prog.

[KevShmev]

It also rubs me the wrong way that Mikael COMPLETELY changed the band's entire sound and just has a deal with it mentality. I've said it before, but Chuck Schuldiner knew how to do it when he retired Death and started up Control Denied. Sure Control Denied still has that indisputable Chuck riffage and musicianship from the guys on The Sound of Perseverance, but if Control Denied's album had been put out as a Death album, it would not have felt like Death at all. And that's how I feel Heritage is. Yeah it's got Mikael's very recognizable voice, and some of the musical tendencies that he has, but it sure doesn't feel like an Opeth album at all.

It might not sound like the Opeth of the old days but it is their band, and they can make it sound like whatever they want.  If they released a new wave CD under the Opeth name, that would then be what Opeth sounds like now, not then.  I know some have a problem with Akerfeldt moving away from growls and crushing metal, but there is no rule that says they can't make whatever music they want under the same name.  If some fans have an issue with it, that is their problem, not the band's.

I fucking knew that that was what my post would be boiled down to. Did you actually bother to read my post? I'm not mad that it's not harsh anymore, and not teh metalz of yonder days, obviously bands change, Mastodon have big time, but you know what they still sound like Mastodon and should definitely still be called Mastodon. Heritage is just Mike wanting to bask in early prog rock, and using Opeth's well known name to emulate 70's prog.

And?  So, bands shouldn't stray too far from their sound, cause the fans will get upset?  Pssh.  Did you read my post?  A band can sound like whatever they want; it is their freaking band!!! If it bothers you that they don't sound like Opeth (according to your standards of what they should sound like), again, that is your problem, not theirs.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

It also rubs me the wrong way that Mikael COMPLETELY changed the band's entire sound and just has a deal with it mentality. I've said it before, but Chuck Schuldiner knew how to do it when he retired Death and started up Control Denied. Sure Control Denied still has that indisputable Chuck riffage and musicianship from the guys on The Sound of Perseverance, but if Control Denied's album had been put out as a Death album, it would not have felt like Death at all. And that's how I feel Heritage is. Yeah it's got Mikael's very recognizable voice, and some of the musical tendencies that he has, but it sure doesn't feel like an Opeth album at all.

It might not sound like the Opeth of the old days but it is their band, and they can make it sound like whatever they want.  If they released a new wave CD under the Opeth name, that would then be what Opeth sounds like now, not then.  I know some have a problem with Akerfeldt moving away from growls and crushing metal, but there is no rule that says they can't make whatever music they want under the same name.  If some fans have an issue with it, that is their problem, not the band's.

I fucking knew that that was what my post would be boiled down to. Did you actually bother to read my post? I'm not mad that it's not harsh anymore, and not teh metalz of yonder days, obviously bands change, Mastodon have big time, but you know what they still sound like Mastodon and should definitely still be called Mastodon. Heritage is just Mike wanting to bask in early prog rock, and using Opeth's well known name to emulate 70's prog.

Yeah, but Opeth is his band. He's free to do whatever kind of music he wants under that name. And it's not like he tricked everyone, I think there were a number a interviews pre-Heriatge that indicated where they were going with it.

[Dark Castle]

Well no duh it's his band.
But maybe instead of using Opeth's name to emulate 70's prog, he could at least be classy like Chuck Schuldiner and acknowledge that at a certain point in change, you have to retire a name and start fresh.
That's ALL I'm saying, I don't give a flipping fuck what he wants to do musically, that's up to him, as it should be.

[OsMosis2259]

And that's how I feel Heritage is. Yeah it's got Mikael's very recognizable voice, and some of the musical tendencies that he has, but it sure doesn't feel like an Opeth album at all.

Ugh I get tired of hearing this... The "Heritage doesn't sound like an Opeth record" complaint.
Yeah Heritage is different but it's still Opeth and has elements that make it an Opeth record. If you don't like it, that's cool but it's DEF an Opeth record.

Ghost Reveries doesn't sound anything like Orchid... Times change, bands change, people change. 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Well no duh it's his band.
But maybe instead of using Opeth's name to emulate 70's prog, he could at least be classy like Chuck Schuldiner and acknowledge that at a certain point in change, you have to retire a name and start fresh.
That's ALL I'm saying, I don't give a flipping fuck what he wants to do musically, that's up to him, as it should be.

I don't see why changing the name would be "classy", but I don't suppose we're going to agree on this.

[Dark Castle]

Well no duh it's his band.
But maybe instead of using Opeth's name to emulate 70's prog, he could at least be classy like Chuck Schuldiner and acknowledge that at a certain point in change, you have to retire a name and start fresh.
That's ALL I'm saying, I don't give a flipping fuck what he wants to do musically, that's up to him, as it should be.

I don't see why changing the name would be "classy", but I don't suppose we're going to agree on this.

It's classy because as a musician Chuck acknowledged that to fans, Control Denied's music would not sound at all like a Death album, and so he respected that fact and let Death end where he wanted it to, and that Control Denied, Had they stayed as Death, wouldn't be blasted or compared to Death's previous work. It was it's own work.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Maybe Heritage sounded like an Opeth album to Mikael. Bands like Ulver, or even King Crimson change pretty radically from album to album, I don't see why Opeth shouldn't be able to do the same if they want to.

[senecadawg2]

Reading over the past couple pages of this thread has got me agreeing a lot with Kev.

The great thing about music is that it's completely subjective, and different people are going to hear different things. So while you might not hear Opeth in Heritage, Dark Castle, I do. Maybe that's just because I got into Opeth later, and the shift didn't shock me. With that being said, it is one of my least favorite of their albums, and I hope that this next one does shift in another direction. I'd also agree that Opeth has never struck me as particularly extreme, and am not expecting that from this one either.

With all of that being said, I'm very excited about the upcoming album, single on May 6th, and mildly intriguing track list 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I'm not even that big a fan of Heritage, I much prefer their metal stuff.

[Dark Castle]

I'm not putting down orders for anybody, I'm just giving my take on something, and how I feel about it.

Another thing is King Crimson STILL SOUNDS LIKE BLOODY KING CRIMSON.

Heritage was self indulging, 70's prog emulating, masturbation. None of that sounds like Opeth to me. Damnation while being an incredibly soft album, still sounded like Opeth.

EDIT: Where's Black_Floyd when you could use some backing up?

[senecadawg2]

He stopped coming in this thread around the same time he heard that this next album was going to suck 

[Evermind]

My bad, I thought I read metal, but still, I highly doubt anything will be extreme about the album

Well, for some fans it could be extreme disappointment. 

[BlackInk]

Very interesting. Track titles sound awesome.

[adace]

The album and song titles sound very intriguing. Can't wait to see the cover art.

Edit: Found out Steven Wilson was involved in making the record:

For the first part of the year I’ve been doing a lot of mixing work for other artists, something I always find very inspiring.

The new Opeth album Pale Communion was mixed into stereo and 5.1 at my studio in February. I also sang harmony vocals. It’s by no stretch of the imagination a metal record but it’s still plenty heavy and a great piece of work - for me the epic orchestrated ballad “Faith in Others” that closes the album is Mikael Åkerfeldt's finest achievement to date. Pale Communion is released by Roadrunner Records on 19th June. It’s also the first Opeth album to be recorded and mixed in higher resolution 96/24. I hope Roadrunner will release a high res format, but I don't know their plans on that.

[black_biff_stadler]

EDIT: Where's Black_Floyd when you could use some backing up?

lol, I was asleep but otherwise I'd have been in here instantly to have your back. It's become fairly obvious that most of the folks giving you shit are repeatedly ignoring the basis of your argument and likely because they like the new direction and have little reason to be open to opposing viewpoints because of that.

Seriously people, how hard is it to grasp the point he's trying to make? He's not saying he wants Opeth to make the same damn record for all of eternity. He's saying if they're gonna radically change their sound, he'd prefer it be in the name of making actual good music and not just dick-riding Mike's 70s influences in an unfulfillingly uncreative manner.

Ugh I get tired of hearing this... The "Heritage doesn't sound like an Opeth record" complaint.
Yeah Heritage is different but it's still Opeth and has elements that make it an Opeth record. If you don't like it, that's cool but it's DEF an Opeth record.

Ghost Reveries doesn't sound anything like Orchid... Times change, bands change, people change. 

I don't recall anyone griping about GR back when it was released or in the years that followed so you're grasping at straws with that one. Also, most of the people whom don't like Heritage probably rank Orchid and Morningrise fairly low anyway since they both seem to get the When Dream and Day Unite treatment around here anyway. Furthermore, GR wasn't that big of a change. They added keyboards but piano/keyboard had already been on Orchid (Silhouette), MAYH (Prologue, Epilogue, Circle of the Tyrant as a bonus track), BWP (The Leper Affinity, Patterns in the Ivy), Deliverance (A Fair Judgment), and Damnation (can't remember the exact tracks other than Weakness right now.) Sure Atonement was different but that's only one song. Everything else was completely in the vein of what they'd gracefully transitioned through over the previous seven albums whereas Heritage has zero growls (come back at me with Damnation if you wanna have that argument, I'm more than game), virtually zero metal (the distinction between hard rock and the style of metal Opeth plays/played is very apparent), a severe dropoff in the quality of melodic content, transitions that are jarring to a point far past clever or progressive and deep into "amateur trying to sound cool" territory, and a lot of the vocal melodies just don't fit the music over which they're sung.

He stopped coming in this thread around the same time he heard that this next album was going to suck 

If you ever flunk out of school, you'll still have a promising career as a carpenter with your ability to hit the nail on the head.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

EDIT: Where's Black_Floyd when you could use some backing up?

lol, I was asleep but otherwise I'd have been in here instantly to have your back. It's become fairly obvious that most of the folks giving you shit are repeatedly ignoring the basis of your argument and likely because they like the new direction and have little reason to be open to opposing viewpoints because of that.

I'm not even that big a fan of Heritage, I much prefer their metal stuff.

Seriously people, how hard is it to grasp the point he's trying to make? He's not saying he wants Opeth to make the same damn record for all of eternity. He's saying if they're gonna radically change their sound, he'd prefer it be in the name of making actual good music and not just dick-riding Mike's 70s influences in an unfulfillingly uncreative manner.

And who is the sole arbiter of "good" music?

[KevShmev]

EDIT: Where's Black_Floyd when you could use some backing up?

lol, I was asleep but otherwise I'd have been in here instantly to have your back. It's become fairly obvious that most of the folks giving you shit are repeatedly ignoring the basis of your argument and likely because they like the new direction and have little reason to be open to opposing viewpoints because of that.

Seriously people, how hard is it to grasp the point he's trying to make? He's not saying he wants Opeth to make the same damn record for all of eternity. He's saying if they're gonna radically change their sound, he'd prefer it be in the name of making actual good music and not just dick-riding Mike's 70s influences in an unfulfillingly uncreative manner.

 

Blah, blah, blah.  Your view towards Opeth now is so myopic, yet we are the ones who aren't getting it?  Haha, okay.

I get Dark Castle's point; I just don't agree with it.  I am sorry that you don't get that, but it is what it is. 

[black_biff_stadler]

And who is the sole arbiter of "good" music?

No one. I'm saying that y'all are implying that he dislikes the new direction for being different whereas he's actually against it because it doesn't sound good to his ears regardless of style.

EDIT: Where's Black_Floyd when you could use some backing up?

lol, I was asleep but otherwise I'd have been in here instantly to have your back. It's become fairly obvious that most of the folks giving you shit are repeatedly ignoring the basis of your argument and likely because they like the new direction and have little reason to be open to opposing viewpoints because of that.

Seriously people, how hard is it to grasp the point he's trying to make? He's not saying he wants Opeth to make the same damn record for all of eternity. He's saying if they're gonna radically change their sound, he'd prefer it be in the name of making actual good music and not just dick-riding Mike's 70s influences in an unfulfillingly uncreative manner.

 

Blah, blah, blah.  Your view towards Opeth now is so myopic, yet we are the ones who aren't getting it?  Haha, okay.

I get Dark Castle's point; I just don't agree with it.  I am sorry that you don't get that, but it is what it is. 

You okay, guy? You sound a bit grumpy. Also, only Dylan can say who did and didn't get his point unless you're his twin and have that cool telepathic thing going on.

[?]

BTW, did anyone else notice that the "Goblin" song Mikael talked about it in interviews a while ago has kept its title?

[senecadawg2]

I think I get the point. You two don't like the quality of the new music, and that's got very little (or nothing) to do with the fact that it's a change. I tend to agree, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other folks do too. I still enjoy it more than most music, which is why I listened to it so much for a little while, but it's still my least favorite Opeth album.

My confusion with what DC has been saying is a different issue. He seems to be suggesting that Mike should be releasing the music under a different band name, because it doesn't sound like what he's grown to recognize as the 'Opeth sound'. Assuming I read him correctly, that is where we disagree.

[KevShmev]

Exactly.  It's a foolish notion.

Hell, I don't even like Heritage that much.  I mean, I like it a lot, but I like almost every album of theirs more, but I respect their right to do whatever they want because it is their band.