Falling Into Infinity a re-listen

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think any of the other demos that could fit on the album would improve it. I'd actually rather they just cut it altogether. The album is long enough without the extra track.

[j]

Ah, I see.  I guess I just enjoy a few of the demos enough that I'd have liked to have them on the album.  Length isn't really an issue for me.  *obligatory penis joke*

-J

[bosk1]

I mostly prefer the album as it is, but if I were in charge back then, I would have made a few changes.  I would definitely drop YNM and replace it with Raise the Knife.  I would also use the demo version of TAMP instead of the final version.  I would also be tempted to pull Hollow Years in favor of Speak To Me, as I personally feel that would be an improvement.  But I know most would disagree with that latter change, so I'd be fine with only the first two.

[TAC]

  I would also use the demo version of TAMP instead of the final version. 

Absolutely. Plus instead of singing that final chorus, I thought it would've been far more powerful to have that section without vocals.

[Samsara]

I think FII is fine the way it is. I think it was a very smart move to separate "Hell's Kitchen" from "Burning My Soul," which if DT had left it in there, it would have really mucked up the song.

As for other changes, there are spots in some of the demos I like a little better, but not enough to really change anything (a couple of those points about the demo of Take Away My Pain I agree with).

Then again, I'm in the minority as I think "You Not Me" is much better on the album than the demo version. MP and crew may not like what was done to it, but frankly, it made it a better overall song and it was a popular single, at least home on Long Island.

In regard to the unreleased tracks, "Raise the Knife" and "Speak to Me" are favorites...but they are a bit too "dark" in my opinion for inclusion. I would have done it anyway, if I was in charge, but I can see why they were left off.

[7StringedBeast]

I had no idea that New Millenium was created out of old parts from CIAW.  I guess that explains the Live Scenes mashup.  Either way, I still think New Millenium is pretty original sounding.

[KevShmev]

I had no idea that New Millenium was created out of old parts from CIAW.  I guess that explains the Live Scenes mashup.  Either way, I still think New Millenium is pretty original sounding.

Yeah, just because it might have come from another DT song in its rough stages doesn't mean it is unoriginal.  I mean, the band still wrote it back when originality was something that really came across in their music.

[AwakeFromOctavarium]

FII sucks.

Nah, I'm kidding.
I think FII songs are a lot bluesier compared to songs from their previous albums, and they are relatively slow.
Relatively slow, which made me put this album aside. I'm not a fan of slow music, only listening to them when
my mood is set. But of course, there are some good songs here, though I won't call them DT's best.

1. New Millennium
Sure the intro makes you go WTF but the whole song is really cool, and the instrumental at the end is quite bloody.
2. Lines In The Sand
Great melody and consistent song.
3. Just Let Me Breathe
I always liked James testing out new style of vocal, and this song was really catchy for me when I heard it. The first line
of the chorus is really unforgettable.
4. Trial of Tears
Very dynamic song. It's slow but it still attracted my ears. Listening to this song kinda reminds me of Lifting Shadows, Carpe Diem
and some of Scenes songs.

Just a few but good songs. And well, FII isn't much of a strong album actually. Just unique.

[robwebster]

I had no idea that New Millenium was created out of old parts from CIAW.  I guess that explains the Live Scenes mashup.  Either way, I still think New Millenium is pretty original sounding.

I think New Millennium is one of those songs which is so original I really couldn't affix a genre to it if I tried. It's bizarre and unique and unpredictable and all-round fantastic. I want to call it a prog-funk odyssey or something wanktacular like that, but I don't feel it does it even a shred of justice. It's just... New Millennium!

[hefdaddy42]

I mostly prefer the album as it is, but if I were in charge back then, I would have made a few changes.  I would definitely drop YNM and replace it with Raise the Knife.  I would also use the demo version of TAMP instead of the final version.  I would also be tempted to pull Hollow Years in favor of Speak To Me, as I personally feel that would be an improvement. 

All of this, without question.

[LTE]

1. New Millennium
Sure the intro makes you go WTF but the whole song is really cool, and the instrumental at the end is quite bloody.

It has never made me go WTF.
That song is truly "progressive", mixing many different genres and textures.

[Mebert78]

I mostly prefer the album as it is, but if I were in charge back then, I would have made a few changes.  I would definitely drop YNM and replace it with Raise the Knife.  I would also use the demo version of TAMP instead of the final version.  I would also be tempted to pull Hollow Years in favor of Speak To Me, as I personally feel that would be an improvement.  

All of this, without question.

Eh, to be honest "Raise the Knife" is a big turn off because of the lyrics.  Yes, I'm a Kevin fan so maybe that's part of it.  But outside of the 12-step songs, MP has a tendency to write lyrics where he lashes out at people that he feels have done him wrong - whether it's Kevin, former managers, his step father, other musicians, or fans in "Never Enough."  JP does it sometimes like in "As I Am" but he camoflauges the true meaning a little better.  That whole sour-grapes approach to MP lyrics is kinda annoying, IMO, and ruins some songs for me - including "Raise the Knife."

[Samsara]

You know, I re-listened to "You OR Me" this morning, and I like it better than I once did. I still stand by my opinion that "You NOT Me" is a better song, but "You OR Me" is much more interesting, sonically, even if the officially released "You NOT Me" is a better flowing tune.

Shame on me for not reading up on the song, but I never paid attention to the fact "Raise the Knife" was about Kevin Moore. Now singing the song to myself, I clearly get the connection. Never dawned on me. DOH! 

[Global Laziness]

I mostly prefer the album as it is, but if I were in charge back then, I would have made a few changes.  I would definitely drop YNM and replace it with Raise the Knife.  I would also use the demo version of TAMP instead of the final version.  I would also be tempted to pull Hollow Years in favor of Speak To Me, as I personally feel that would be an improvement.  

All of this, without question.

Eh, to be honest "Raise the Knife" is a big turn off because of the lyrics.  Yes, I'm a Kevin fan so maybe that's part of it.  But outside of the 12-step songs, MP has a tendency to write lyrics where he lashes out at people that he feels have done him wrong - whether it's Kevin, former managers, his step father, other musicians, or fans in "Never Enough."  JP does it sometimes like in "As I Am" but he camoflauges the true meaning a little better.  That whole sour-grapes approach to MP lyrics is kinda annoying, IMO, and ruins some songs for me - including "Raise the Knife."

Wow, call me crazy but I had no idea that Raise the Knife was about Kevin Moore.

[robwebster]

It's not all about Kevin Moore. I think one verse is about a bloke called Jim Pitulski? Where Mike feels bad that he had to throw him out as a manager, but he had no choice or something. "But then I turned my back on you, my friend," etc. I can't remember the details, pretty sure he was their manager for a while though. There's a few verses about different people.

But yeah, one or two are almost certainly about Kevin Moore.


Weird thought, wonder what the people who've never heard Raise the Knife reckon to this discussion.

Then again, probably aren't many of those since Score came out. Still, I kinda forget it's one of those little hidden gems, tucked away from the rest of the catalogue. Probably a testament to what a good song it is.

[BlobVanDam]

I never realized it was about KM. Seems obscured enough to me. I think you really have to be looking too hard to get beat up over the lyrics.

[hefdaddy42]

How come so many of you didn't know that some of the RTK lyrics were about KM?  That's common knowledge, guys.

But I don't understand how that can make you not like the song.

[BlobVanDam]

Well I knew the lyrics were about KM, but only because people here had said it. From the lyrics alone, there's really no giveaway.
There's only one verse that even comes close to being obvious, and even that isn't remotely specific. I think it's silly to think the lyrics ruin the song considering they're mostly quite vague, unlike the other example of NE. They're every bit as camouflaged as something like As I Am, and I can't imagine anyone getting worked up over them.

[LCArenas]

Trial of Tears is a really good song. This would be a good FII for me:

1. Raise the Knife (11:30)
2. New Millennium (8:20)
3. Speak to Me (5:51)
4. Burning My Soul -Demo Version- (8:35)
5. Take Away My Pain -Demo Version- (6:47)
6. Lines in the Sand (12:05)
7. Anna Lee (6:10)
8. Trial of Tears (12:15)

Trail of Tears is an absolutley beautiful song, and definatley one of my favourites by DT.

I'm not crazy about that song.

I much prefer Trial of Tears.

Eric Johnson has a GREAT song called Trail of Tears....

Don't forget Testament's Trail of Tears, their best ballad in my opinion.

[KevShmev]

I liked "Raise the Knife" long before I knew that the one verse was about Kevin Moore, and looking at it now, those lyrics are rather silly, but they don't hinder my enjoyment of the song.

[Mebert78]

I like FII.  However, at the the same time there are a few elements that gave it a non-DT feel to me when it was released.  It may sound stupid, but the non-use of the DT font on the cover as well as the cover artwork really affected my view before I even heard a note.  DT had abandoned their their trademark logo.  It felt like Metallica when they cut their hair for the Load photo and didn't use their standard Metallica font.  DT also used an actual photo of real people on the cover, as oppose to their fantastical dream-like illustrations of I&W and Awake.  It was like they were ditching their winning formula -- and, like I said, that was before I heard a note.

The music to me is good.  The packaging doesn't feel like DT.

[Orbert]

I guess I'm in the minority here in that I like Falling Into Infinity a lot, and just as it is.  As much as I like DT, I tend not to dig around and find non-album tracks, bootlegs, etc. of any band, so all this talk about the demos and "Raise the Knife" and such goes whooshing past me.  I've heard "You Or Me" and the other stuff; I probably still have them somewhere, but I don't lump them in with the official release.  They're with "Other DT Stuff".

I got turned on to DT shortly after A Change of Seasons, and grabbed Images and Words and Awake, but FII was the first DT album I picked up when it was released.  That may be part of the reason why I'm fine with it the way it is.  At the time, it's all there was anyway.

[antigoon]

So yeah, Falling Into Infinity is still my favorite DT album. Are Images & Words and Awake "better" albums? Probably, but Falling Into Infinity is just so much fun.

AND IT SOUNDS SO GOOD.

[BlobVanDam]

I like FII.  However, at the the same time there are a few elements that gave it a non-DT feel to me when it was released.  It may sound stupid, but the non-use of the DT font on the cover as well as the cover artwork really affected my view before I even heard a note.  DT had abandoned their their trademark logo.  It felt like Metallica when they cut their hair for the Load photo and didn't use their standard Metallica font.  DT also used an actual photo of real people on the cover, as oppose to their fantastical dream-like illustrations of I&W and Awake.  It was like they were ditching their winning formula -- and, like I said, that was before I heard a note.

The music to me is good.  The packaging doesn't feel like DT.

I hate the early style of album cover (same with BCASL), so I'm glad they finally changed it up. It's one of their better covers. No excuse on the DT logo though. I thought I was the only one who got a Metallica - Load vibe from that

[contest_sanity]

I like FII.  However, at the the same time there are a few elements that gave it a non-DT feel to me when it was released.  It may sound stupid, but the non-use of the DT font on the cover as well as the cover artwork really affected my view before I even heard a note.  DT had abandoned their their trademark logo.  It felt like Metallica when they cut their hair for the Load photo and didn't use their standard Metallica font.  DT also used an actual photo of real people on the cover, as oppose to their fantastical dream-like illustrations of I&W and Awake.  It was like they were ditching their winning formula -- and, like I said, that was before I heard a note.

The music to me is good.  The packaging doesn't feel like DT.

I hate the early style of album cover (same with BCASL), so I'm glad they finally changed it up. It's one of their better covers. No excuse on the DT logo though. I thought I was the only one who got a Metallica - Load vibe from that

Cool comparison between Load and FII, especially in regards to "image" and the changing of fonts, etc.  What's also interesting, though, is that DT "abandoned" their previous style because the record company basically forced them to, while, Metallica, on the other hand, were one of the biggest bands in the world when they decided to change things up with Load.  That's why I never understood the charge of them "selling out" with that album.  They were already global rock stars after The Black Album, so why would they "sell out" on their next album?

 

[Perpetual Change]

I had no idea that New Millenium was created out of old parts from CIAW.  I guess that explains the Live Scenes mashup.  Either way, I still think New Millenium is pretty original sounding.

Yeah, just because it might have come from another DT song in its rough stages doesn't mean it is unoriginal.  I mean, the band still wrote it back when originality was something that really came across in their music.

Why don't you like them?  Because you think they're bad, or because they're about someone you like?

I can understand the latter, but not the former.  Those are probably the best angry lyrics DT have ever written.

[Dream Team]

I never realized it was about KM. Seems obscured enough to me. I think you really have to be looking too hard to get beat up over the lyrics.

Yeah, you'd really have to be fanatical about KM to get your panties in a twist about those lyrics. He's not being "attacked" by any stretch of the imagination.

[robwebster]

I hate the early style of album cover (same with BCASL), so I'm glad they finally changed it up.

Once again, controversial statement I agree with! Hate's too strong a word - but they look really cluttered.

[BlobVanDam]

I hate the early style of album cover (same with BCASL), so I'm glad they finally changed it up.

Once again, controversial statement I agree with! Hate's too strong a word - but they look really cluttered.

You're right, hate is such a strong word. But aside from WDADU, the covers that follow that style are easily my least favourite from DT.

[Samsara]

Listened to "Lines in the Sand" on the way into the office this morning. But my wife and I really hear a Scott Rockenfield influence on Portnoy's drumming in that tune. Anyone familiar enough with the original Queensryche to also hear that?

MP wrote the lyrics to LitS, correct?

[KevShmev]

Listened to "Lines in the Sand" on the way into the office this morning. But my wife and I really hear a Scott Rockenfield influence on Portnoy's drumming in that tune. Anyone familiar enough with the original Queensryche to also hear that?

Don't hear it at all.  But you diehard QR fans are an odd bunch sometimes, so yeah.

[BlobVanDam]

Listened to "Lines in the Sand" on the way into the office this morning. But my wife and I really hear a Scott Rockenfield influence on Portnoy's drumming in that tune. Anyone familiar enough with the original Queensryche to also hear that?

MP wrote the lyrics to LitS, correct?

Petrucci, I think.

[hefdaddy42]

Listened to "Lines in the Sand" on the way into the office this morning. But my wife and I really hear a Scott Rockenfield influence on Portnoy's drumming in that tune. Anyone familiar enough with the original Queensryche to also hear that?

Not that I can tell, but I guess it's possible.

MP wrote the lyrics to LitS, correct?

No, it was Petrucci.

[Zydar]

Yeah I think MP only wrote the lyrics for BMS, NM and JLMB on that album.

[The Letter M]

FII is a pretty good album, IMO, and I've listened to it SEVERAL ways... of course, there's the album itself, as released with all 11 tracks. And of course there's the FII Demos, which include all the songs as the band had originally written them (I particularly enjoy "Take Away My Pain" and "Anna Lee" here, as well as "Lines In The Sand").

I have also created a 2-CD set of the album using the officially released tracks, some of the FII demos, and other versions of the songs:
1. Raise The Knife (Cleaning Out The Closet)
2. Where Are You Now? (COTC)
3. Take Away My Pain (FII, or FII Demos - I've used both versions)
4. You Or Me (Hollow Years single)
5. Hollow Years (Falling Into Infinity album)
6. Burning My Soul (FII)
7. Hell's Kitchen (FII)
8. Lines In The Sand (FII)

1. New Millennium (FII)
2. Cover My Eyes (COTC)
3. Peruvian Skies (FII)
4. Speak To Me (COTC)
5. Just Let Me Breathe (FII)
6. The Way It Used To Be (COTC)
7. Anna Lee (FII)
8. Trial Of Tears (FII)

I keep hoping for a day when the band plays all their FII-era material for a special concert... maybe next year for it's 15th anniversary? 

-Marc.