The Astonishing Revised

[KevShmev]

That's totally cool that you have no issue with the cheesy sap of TA but it's the main reason the album has 2 stars on Rate Your Music,  most people that would find themselves listening to Dream Theater don't enjoy that stuff.

 

Then the issue is the fans, not the music.  Besides, most of the ballads on The Astonishing are not that dissimilar from others they have done throughout their history.  Songs like Surrounded and Through Her Eyes would have sounded right at home on TA, for example.

[lovethedrake]

Then the issue is the fans, not the music.  Besides, most of the ballads on The Astonishing are not that dissimilar from others they have done throughout their history.  Songs like Surrounded and Through Her Eyes would have sounded right at home on TA, for example.

There is no issue... a band can do what it wants and fans either like it or they don't.  Clearly fans didn't like TA as a general consensus, my hypothesis as to why that is, was that there is too much bloat and far too much Disney cheese.  Which is why I started the thread and positioned a playlist of 12 songs, none of which include the Disney cheese.

I also very much disagree with you though that those songs on The Astonishing sound similar to Through her Eyes and Surrounded, especially Surrounded. They might all be ballads but they're incredibly different.

Again, let me follow that up by saying I really like TA overall.

This is all just my opinion and im responding to the question of "why is Chosen is being left off playlists"

[lovethedrake]

Of course Chosen is in my head now haha

[Ben_Jamin]

There is no issue... a band can do what it wants and fans either like it or they don't.  Clearly fans didn't like TA as a general consensus, my hypothesis as to why that is, was that there is too much bloat and far too much Disney cheese.  Which is why I started the thread and positioned a playlist of 12 songs, none of which include the Disney cheese.

I also very much disagree with you though that those songs on The Astonishing sound similar to Through her Eyes and Surrounded, especially Surrounded. They might all be ballads but they're incredibly different.

Again, let me follow that up by saying I really like TA overall.

This is all just my opinion and im responding to the question of "why is Chosen is being left off playlists"

Fans do love The Astonishing. Just because they are not as vocal, does not mean the consensus agrees.

I hear you about the album being amazing.

If I were to make a "revised album"

Descent of The NOMACS
Dystopian Overture
The Gift of Music
The Answer
A Better Life
Lord Nefaryus
A Savior in The Square
When Your Time Has Come
Three Days
Ravenskill
Chosen
A Tempting Offer
The X Aspect
The Road of Revolution
Moment of Betrayal
The Path That Divides
The Walking Shadow
Losing Faythe
Whispers on The Wind
Hymn of A Thousand Voices
Astonishing
Power Down

[lovethedrake]

Fans do love The Astonishing. Just because they are not as vocal, does not mean the consensus agrees.

I hear you about the album being amazing.

If I were to make a "revised album"

Descent of The NOMACS
Dystopian Overture
The Gift of Music
The Answer
A Better Life
Lord Nefaryus
A Savior in The Square
When Your Time Has Come
Three Days
Ravenskill
Chosen
A Tempting Offer
The X Aspect
The Road of Revolution
Moment of Betrayal
The Path That Divides
The Walking Shadow
Losing Faythe
Whispers on The Wind
Hymn of A Thousand Voices
Astonishing
Power Down

Plenty of fans do love The Astonishing, I agree with that.  But that is definitely not the general consensus anywhere you look including this board.

The reaction to TA is the reason they have played it pretty safe ever since.

[Mr.Mister]

For me TA's issues are not of length but of pace, specially towards the end. The album structure is:
- Set Up/Exposition:
Proggy sounds, tango, blast beats, quircky - I think this is where the album truly shines. It does things differently and it's like the first novel in a YA series: you feel the world building and the sense of discovery.

- Conflict: Metal 2nd half - mostly done well though I think it needed more of heavier songs. I think the album would have benefited from 1 or two more tracks like Path that Divides. DT can do cinematic metal and what they do with Heaven's Cove, Path, Walking Shadow was epic. I just needed a bit more. I also think Begin again takes away a bit from what the story is telling melodically.

- Resolution: choirs, folk, softer metal - this is where the album loses me. After My Last Farewell I lose interest very quickly. It feels overdone, too many softer sides one after the other. It suffers from what a lot of Neal Morse epics do, which is the need to have the wrap up grandiose uplifting moment that not always work for me (think of the whirldwin last song). I think this is where they could have something like Bend The Clock, Razor's edge type of sounds. And to be clear I would have totally kept the choir, folk type of sounds but not dedicated songs.

Oddly enough I wrote on the parasomnia thread that MP can be too much when producing with some odd choices but I think this is a perfect example of an album that could have used with MP's touch to help balance it out.

As for my condensed track it;d be:


Descent of The NOMACS
Dystopian Overture
The Gift of Music
The Answer
A Better Life
Lord Nefaryus
A Savior in The Square
When Your Time Has Come
Three Days
Brother can you hear me (I wish it was just half as long tho)
Ravenskill
Chosen
A Tempting Offer (one of my fav on the album)
The X Aspect
A new Beginning (best song on the album IMO)
The Road of Revolution
Nomac Break 2
2285 Entra'acte (fantastic overture that should set up an even heavier and darker next act)
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven't cove
The Path That Divides (Epic last verse - James kills it, prob fav moment)
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell
Losing Faythe
Hymn of A Thousand Voices
New World

If you need Ashtonishing you can release it as an EP with a new instrumental in between albums.

[Trav]

For me TA's issues are not of length but of pace, specially towards the end. The album structure is:
- Set Up/Exposition:
Proggy sounds, tango, blast beats, quircky - I think this is where the album truly shines. It does things differently and it's like the first novel in a YA series: you feel the world building and the sense of discovery.

- Conflict: Metal 2nd half - mostly done well though I think it needed more of heavier songs. I think the album would have benefited from 1 or two more tracks like Path that Divides. DT can do cinematic metal and what they do with Heaven's Cove, Path, Walking Shadow was epic. I just needed a bit more. I also think Begin again takes away a bit from what the story is telling melodically.

- Resolution: choirs, folk, softer metal - this is where the album loses me. After My Last Farewell I lose interest very quickly. It feels overdone, too many softer sides one after the other. It suffers from what a lot of Neal Morse epics do, which is the need to have the wrap up grandiose uplifting moment that not always work for me (think of the whirldwin last song). I think this is where they could have something like Bend The Clock, Razor's edge type of sounds. And to be clear I would have totally kept the choir, folk type of sounds but not dedicated songs.

Oddly enough I wrote on the parasomnia thread that MP can be too much when producing with some odd choices but I think this is a perfect example of an album that could have used with MP's touch to help balance it out.

As for my condensed track it;d be:


Descent of The NOMACS
Dystopian Overture
The Gift of Music
The Answer
A Better Life
Lord Nefaryus
A Savior in The Square
When Your Time Has Come
Three Days
Brother can you hear me (I wish it was just half as long tho)
Ravenskill
Chosen
A Tempting Offer (one of my fav on the album)
The X Aspect
A new Beginning (best song on the album IMO)
The Road of Revolution
Nomac Break 2
2285 Entra'acte (fantastic overture that should set up an even heavier and darker next act)
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven't cove
The Path That Divides (Epic last verse - James kills it, prob fav moment)
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell
Losing Faythe
Hymn of A Thousand Voices
New World

If you need Ashtonishing you can release it as an EP with a new instrumental in between albums.

I think this is a really good analysis, in a way I haven't necessarily thought of. I definitely agree.

[EPIC Outro]

I wish Dream Theater would revisit this album with Portnoy and do a more metal reimagining of it.

[TAC]

As for my condensed track it;d be:


Descent of The NOMACS
Dystopian Overture
The Gift of Music
The Answer
A Better Life
Lord Nefaryus
A Savior in The Square
When Your Time Has Come
Three Days
Brother can you hear me (I wish it was just half as long tho)
Ravenskill
Chosen
A Tempting Offer (one of my fav on the album)
The X Aspect
A new Beginning (best song on the album IMO)
The Road of Revolution
Nomac Break 2
2285 Entra'acte (fantastic overture that should set up an even heavier and darker next act)
Moment of Betrayal
Heaven't cove
The Path That Divides (Epic last verse - James kills it, prob fav moment)
The Walking Shadow
My Last Farewell
Losing Faythe
Hymn of A Thousand Voices
New World

Condensed?   What did you even cut?

- Resolution: choirs, folk, softer metal - this is where the album loses me. After My Last Farewell I lose interest very quickly. It feels overdone, too many softer sides one after the other.

I feel the same way. That's why after My Last Farewell (a way underrated track), I end mine with Hymn Of A Thousand Voices. "Music has shown the way..She lives today" which is to me, is the perfect ending.

[evilasiojr]

Sorry, haven't read the full thread to know if this has been posted already or not, but I came across this version of TA the other day, and the first half really worked imo! Still to check the rest, but looking forward to

https://youtu.be/ZTlen1_Q3YQ?si=czTR31W5ou--QA8m

[Trav]

Sorry, haven't read the full thread to know if this has been posted already or not, but I came across this version of TA the other day, and the first half really worked imo! Still to check the rest, but looking forward to

https://youtu.be/ZTlen1_Q3YQ?si=czTR31W5ou--QA8m

That got taken down quick.

[NoFred]

That got taken down quick.

Right before we found out what they're looking forward to

[jimgolf]

I've never really felt the music was the problem with the Astonishing. There's some really beautiful stuff on there. It could've maybe been trimmed by 10-15 minutes, but not anything drastic in my opinion.

The bigger problem is just the lyrics and the story. I found the story kind of hard to follow and the lyrics being some of Petrucci's weakest. I get what he was going for, and it is a potentially good story, but the execution didn't work for me(and a lot of others).

Contrast that with Scenes From a Memory, A Nightmare to Remember, Count of Tuscany, and on the recent album Dead Asleep and Shadow Man Incident, which tell their stories much better(in my opinion).

[Ben_Jamin]

I've never really felt the music was the problem with the Astonishing. There's some really beautiful stuff on there. It could've maybe been trimmed by 10-15 minutes, but not anything drastic in my opinion.

The bigger problem is just the lyrics and the story. I found the story kind of hard to follow and the lyrics being some of Petrucci's weakest. I get what he was going for, and it is a potentially good story, but the execution didn't work for me(and a lot of others).

Contrast that with Scenes From a Memory, A Nightmare to Remember, Count of Tuscany, and on the recent album Dead Asleep and Shadow Man Incident, which tell their stories much better(in my opinion).

It would've been really beneficial of JP worked with a director or a producer that has some experience in these musicals. Just to give him advise on lyrical storytelling this immense.

[The Curious Orange]

As for The Astonishing, I'd have edited down the story, there's far too much going on. Keep It Simple Stupid should be the rule for concept albums of this type. Then I'd take the better songs and extend them, with some typical DT instrumentals and solo-ing. Get rid of anything too Broadway Musical in tone - there's points in this where I can almost hear Harry and Rhonda from Thing-Fish commenting on it ("This isn't Dreamgirls, Harry, it's really deep, thought-provoking intense Broadway symbolism!"). Either that or go totally the other way, make it a full on Musical extravaganza, scrap all the narration style lyrics and bring in other singers.

There are moments of genius and beauty on there, sometimes I think it could be saved quite easily, sometimes I think it couldn't, and it's better served as the flawed masterpiece it is.

[evilasiojr]

Right before we found out what they're looking forward to

   

Oh man that was quick indeed! Should have listened all of it on the day I started (which was the thing I was looking forward to  )

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I've never really felt the music was the problem with the Astonishing. There's some really beautiful stuff on there. It could've maybe been trimmed by 10-15 minutes, but not anything drastic in my opinion.

The bigger problem is just the lyrics and the story. I found the story kind of hard to follow and the lyrics being some of Petrucci's weakest. I get what he was going for, and it is a potentially good story, but the execution didn't work for me(and a lot of others).

Contrast that with Scenes From a Memory, A Nightmare to Remember, Count of Tuscany, and on the recent album Dead Asleep and Shadow Man Incident, which tell their stories much better(in my opinion).

I think that the lyrics per se are not that bad, but the premise and the script definitely had pretty strong flaws in a narrative point of view.

I mean, there's plenty of media in the dystopia genre to compare The Astonishing with (and having culture/arts/music as a weapon against authoritarianism is not a new concept either) and in the premise of the story I cannot imagine making the "my muuuusic plaaaayer" line sound like something to be emotionally engaged with easily (and I mean, I love Act of Faythe. It's a gorgeous song but it does sound silly), but with Tuscany the thing is this: the lyrics are SO SILLY but the song is amazing, so I really feel I don't need to bitch eternally about "Now, wait a minute man". It's not a great lyric but meh. It is what it is and I have, never (at least since my first listen of the song back in 2009) enjoyed the song less because of the silly lyrics and sometimes silly phrasing.

That being said (and returning to TA). Do I care about the not-so-strong story or lyrics? Not really. From a songwriting point of view, lyrics are as well constructed as they possibly can be. Nothing feels phonetically forced, there's a certain "line" of writing that kinda serves the "future medieval dystopia" setting and you can feel Petrucci put a lot of thought into this. I really haven't read the book and don't feel like doing so but maybe one day I will, just to see if the story grows with some proper characterization. (My most disliked bit about TA, tho, was the ugly 3D graphic art. Felt like a 2000s videogame, and not in the good way).

And still TA sits comfortably in my top 5 albums because it has some of the most beautiful music DT has ever written. I love when they get so cinematic. I just wish the mix had more choir and orchestra.

[Mark Levinson Jr.]

What were the singles that were released? Moment of Betrayal and Gift of Music? Was there only two? Moment of Betrayal was a solid single though.

[hefdaddy42]

I think Our New World.

[Mark Levinson Jr.]

Our New World is the alarm clock song on my phone.... I've been waking up to it all these years!

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

OP - I tried listening to your track listing and I have to say I enjoyed the album a lot more than I did when I tried going through the entire thing.

Some songs are actually growing on me and I think part of it is less fatigue. There are some things inherent to the album that are hard for me still. For example, a lot of the vocal lines are stylized in a very theater-ish way that is not clicking but songs are generally landing better when I figured out where to trim the fat.

[RoeDent]

I said I like the idea of doing something out of the box for Dream Theater and I'm glad they did but in my opinion they didn't really succeed here.  It's a corny Disney song sung by a 60 year old metal singer.  It doesn't really work.

JLB was 52 at the time.