2025 Ranking The Epics....

[DTiwbwMP]

The subject says it all...
8. AVFTTOTW (C) 
7. IT (C+)
6. TSMI (B)
5. TCOT (B+)
4. ITPOE (B+)
3. 6DOIT (A)
2. 8V (A)
1. ACOS (A+)

[Northern Lion]

My ranking has been in constant flux since I became a fan, but I'll try this out anyway.

1 ItPoE A+
2 AVFtTotW A+
3 TCoT A
4 IT A
5 ACoS A
6 TSMI B+ (currently)
7 SDoIT B+
8 8VM B-

I can see TSMI going up my ranking a little in the future.

[Dedalus]

My ranking has been in constant flux since I became a fan, but I'll try this out anyway.

You missed the opportunity to write: "My ranking has been in constant motion since I became a fan, but I'll try this out anyway." 

[BeatriceNB]

1) Octavarium [10]
2) The Count Of Tuscany [10]
3) Illumination Theory [10]
4) Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence [10]
5) A Change Of Seasons [10]
6) A View From The Top Of The World [10]
7) In The Presence Of Enemies [9]
8) The Shadow Man Incident [6]

I think this is it...

[CraftyCaleb2483]

Alright...
1. Octavarium
2. Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
3. In The Prescence Of Enemies
4. The Count Of Tuscany
5. A Change Of Seasons
6. A View From The Top Of The World
7. The Shadow Man Incident
8. Illumination Theory

Shadow Man might rise above View, but no chance is it going to beat ACOS!

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

1. Change of Seasons (10)
2 Illumination Theory (9.5)
3. A View from the Top of the World (9.5)
4. Six Degrees (9)
5. Octavarium (8.5)
6. The Count of Tuscany (8)
7. The Shadow Man Incident (7)
8. In the Presence of Enemies (6)

[Revenge319]

1. A Change of Seasons
2. Octavarium
3. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4. The Count of Tuscany
5. Illumination Theory
6. In the Presence of Enemies
7. A View From the Top of the World
8. The Shadow Man Incident

The first six are a 10/10, AVFTTOTW is about a 9.5/10, and it's hard to rate TSMI right now since it's still new, but it's at least an 8.5/10.

[Wim Kruithof]

My ranking has been in constant flux since I became a fan...

This.

Not even trying anymore.

[skydivingninja]

1. Octavarium
2. A Change of Seasons
3. The Count of Tuscany
4. Six Degrees
5. A View from the Top of the World
6. In the Presence of Enemies
7. Shadow Man
8. Illumination Theory


ITPOE would be lower if not for how strong part 1 is.

[Dream Team]

Hmm, this is tough after #1.

ACoS A+
TCoT A
TSMI A
IT A
AV A-
OV A-
6D B-
ITPoE D

[KevShmev]

It's too early to accurately grade/judge The Shadow Man Incident, but I would say A Change of Seasons is the one and only A+ plus here and the clear number one.

Everything else probably gets somewhere in the B range, with Octavarium, In the Presence of Enemies (which is aging better for me than I expected) and A View from the Top of the World all probably getting a B+.

I love parts of Six Degrees, but it doesn't feel like a single song to me and I literally never listen to it from start to finish, so I can't call it a great song per se.

The Count of Tuscany gets a full grade demotion for the lyrics, and Illumination Theory's overly shmaltyz ending takes a tad away from an otherwise stellar epic.

[Zydar]

Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
A Change Of Seasons
Illumination Theory
The Shadow Man Incident
Octavarium
In The Presence Of Enemies
The Count Of Tuscany
A View From The Top Of The World

Something like this, I guess. Maybe Shadow Man will switch places after some time.

[Metro]

Too early to rank Mr. Shadowman.

1. Octavarium
2. A Change of Seasons
3. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
4. The Count of Tuscany
5. A View from the Top of the World
6. In the Presence of Enemies
7. Illumination Theory

[krands85]

1. Octavarium 10
2. Illumination Theory 9.5
3. In the Presence of Enemies 9
4. A Change of Seasons 9
5. The Count of Tuscany 9
6. The Shadow Man Incident 8.5
7. A View From the Top of the World 8
8. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence 6.5

[Schurftkut]

a change of seasons (A+)
Six degrees (A-)
Octavarium (B)

I don't care about the others really

[fibreoptix]

I love parts of Six Degrees, but it doesn't feel like a single song to me and I literally never listen to it from start to finish, so I can't call it a great song per se.

I'm of a similar mind here. While I might listen to the "disc" from start to finish, it definitely has always felt more like a suite of songs as opposed to one epic, and so I have a hard time ranking it as such.

As for the rest, as some others have said it does change every so often, but right now I'm thinking something like this...:

1. Octavarium - Unless the band pull off something REALLY special in the future, I can't see this ever not being my favourite of the bunch. A masterclass in patience, building and release of tension and overall songwriting. As close to perfect as one can get.
2. In the Presence of Enemies
3. A Change of Seasons
4. The Shadow Man Incident - I don't know yet how much of this is "new car smell", but I'm really enjoying it.
5. Illumination Theory
6. Count of Tuscany
7. A View from the Top of the World

[TheCountOfNYC]

My top 3 remains unchanged as TSMI would have had to take a podium spot among all DT songs to be a top 3 epic (8VM, TCoT, and ACoS are my 3 favorite DT songs). TSMI also doesn't jump over SDoIT, which is another top 10 DT song for me. I'm gonna have to listen to it alongside the other 3 epics to figure out where it stands. I'll post an official ranking once I do that.

[direwhale]

1. 8VM - A+
2. ACOS - A+
3. ITPOE - A
4. SDOIT - A
5. TCOT - A
6. TSMI - B+, likely will increase in the future
7. AVFTTOTW - B
8. IT - C+

[Architeuthis]

This is a difficult one for me, because they are all so epic and awesome!

[Revenge319]

This is a difficult one for me, because they are all so epic and awesome!

I agree with this, mostly. My Top 2 are set in stone, but 3-5 are very close together and they could be in any order (though I think SDOIT will usually be #3 at this point). ITPOE is similarly awesome but is unlikely to change position with the other epics above it.

AVFTTOTW is #32 on my list, which is still pretty high praise. I predict TSMI will be at least in the Top 50, but unless it really grows on me then I don't expect it to go any higher than #40.

For reference, my entire DT rankings (from 2023) have the epics at:
1. ACOS
2. Octavarium
3. SDOIT
5. TCOT
6. IT
11. ITPOE
32. AVFTTOW

[ganpondorodf]

Octavarium
Tuscany
Change of Seasons
ItPoE
The Babadook
6DoiT







Illumination Theory

[TheCountOfNYC]

My top 3 remains unchanged as TSMI would have had to take a podium spot among all DT songs to be a top 3 epic (8VM, TCoT, and ACoS are my 3 favorite DT songs). TSMI also doesn't jump over SDoIT, which is another top 10 DT song for me. I'm gonna have to listen to it alongside the other 3 epics to figure out where it stands. I'll post an official ranking once I do that.

Okay so after listening through the other four epics not in my top 10...I still have no idea how to rank them. I'll post a ranking but it could change the next time I listen to any of these songs.

1: Octavarium
2: The Count of Tuscany
3: A Change of Seasons
4: Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5: The Shadow Man Incident
6: In the Presence of Enemies
7: Illumination Theory
8: A View From the Top of the World

[SeRoX]

Octavarium
A Change Of Seasons
In The Presence of Enemies
The Shadow Man Incident
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Illumination Theory
The Count Of Tuscany
A View From the Top of the World

[nick_z]

It's too early to accurately grade/judge The Shadow Man Incident, but I would say A Change of Seasons is the one and only A+ plus here and the clear number one.

Everything else probably gets somewhere in the B range, with Octavarium, In the Presence of Enemies (which is aging better for me than I expected) and A View from the Top of the World all probably getting a B+.

I love parts of Six Degrees, but it doesn't feel like a single song to me and I literally never listen to it from start to finish, so I can't call it a great song per se.

The Count of Tuscany gets a full grade demotion for the lyrics, and Illumination Theory's overly shmaltyz ending takes a tad away from an otherwise stellar epic.

I can almost quote this word for word A Change of Seasons, epic or no epic, is my #2 DT song after Learning to Live, so there's that. It's just all sorts of awesomeness, regardless of the length. It has the riffs, it has the mood, it has the emotion. It's a masterpiece of a song.

It's early to rank, but I have to say The Shadow Man Incident has a lot of promise. VERY tasty long song. I feel it's a fun listen with good melodies, pretty kick-ass riffs, and not a lot of fat to trim, given the length. So we shall see...

I'm ok with a the runner-up tier comprising Octavarium and A View...although I would add The Count and remove ITPOE. TCOT is a rare case where the lyrics do get close to hurting the song...imo, of course...it's not so much the lyrics per se, it's the contrast between the campiness of some of it and the music, especially for the ending. "Wait a minute, man", I just can't do it  But while I would love for the song to have a different theme, it's still fantastic. To the point where it could conceivably be my second favorite DT epic. As for ITPOE - I LOVE part 1 and, um, I don't really love part 2.

Also agree on IT. Lots of brilliant stuff going on in there, so it's on the cusp of being in that second group, really. But the intermission, while pretty, is just kinda there...and the ending is not my favorite, for sure.

Finally, SDOIT is probably my least favorite of the epics, if we see it that way. Lots of good moments, of course (Solitary Shell first and foremost), but things like Overture and (especially) Losing Time/Grand Finale...not really my cup of tea. Great work by Jordan on those, just not my favorite among the different facets of the band's sound.

SO, excluding Shadow for now, let's say:

A Change of Seasons
The Count of Tuscany
Octavarium
A View from the Top of the World
Illumination Theory
In the Presence of Enemies
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

[nobloodyname]

Okay so after listening through the other four epics not in my top 10...I still have no idea how to rank them. I'll post a ranking but it could change the next time I listen to any of these songs.

1: Octavarium
2: The Count of Tuscany
3: A Change of Seasons
4: Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
5: The Shadow Man Incident
6: In the Presence of Enemies
7: Illumination Theory
8: A View From the Top of the World

Switch around the last two and that's quite possibly the order I'd have had them in, too. Although I still have trouble seeing Six Degrees as one song.

[Dedalus]

1. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
2. Octavarium
3. A Change of Seasons
4. Illumination Theory
5. A View from the Top of the World
6. The Count of Tuscany
7. In the Presence of Enemies

[Pettor]

1. 8V
2. TCOT
3. ACOS
4. TSMI
5. IT
6. ITPOE
7. AVFTTOTW

Love SDOIT, but it's a different kind of piece, so I won't be comparing it to these epics.

ITPOE is also different — I never really hear it as one complete piece, but I suppose it could be listed.

TCOT wins over ACOS simply because I listen to it more these days. ACOS is masterfully written and the 'right' choice, but I rarely feel the urge to play it, even though I've listened to it a thousand times.

8V will likely never be surpassed. I've played it a thousand times and could easily play it a thousand more.

[RAIN]

1) A Change Of Seasons [10+]
2) A View From The Top Of The World [10]
3) In The Presence Of Enemies [9]
4) Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence [9]
5) Octavarium [9]
6) The Count Of Tuscany [8]
7) The Shadow Man Incident [7]
8) Illumination Theory [6]

[illusionist]

Let's not forget that a 16 minute song cannot NOT be described as Epic.
In that sense, A Nightmare to Remember and In the Name of God, or even Trial of Tears and Glass Prison, as they are long songs and close an album (A nightmare and Glass prison!is the exception where they open an album) can also be considered epics.
I won't rank mine here, just wanted to share my opinion here

[illusionist]

Let's not forget that a 16 minute song cannot NOT be described as Epic.
In that sense, A Nightmare to Remember and In the Name of God, or even Trial of Tears and Glass Prison, as they are long songs and close an album (A nightmare and Glass prison!is the exception where they open an album) can also be considered epics.
I won't rank mine here, just wanted to share my opinion here

Double post

[Xaves]

1.ACOS
2.SDOIT
3.8VM
4.TCOT
5.ITPOE
6.TSMI

This is how it is for now. Shadow Man might rank higher after more listens but I've only heard the song twice compared to all the rest.

[bosk1]

1.  Six Degrees:  Immaculate.  I love this style of epic where the separate movements don't necessarily have a single musical through-line, and they seem somewhat independent of each other.  But then the lyrical twist at the end flips the perspective and makes it personal and emotionally impactful.  Love it.
2.  A Change of Seasons:  The OG mega-epics still ranks very high for me. 
3.  Octavarium:  Perfect, constant build to take a theme and use it so many different ways to a big, epic climax.
4.  View:  Very solid piece.  Well written and well executed.
5.  ITPOE:  This is jus a fun piece with a lot of great parts.
6.  Illumination Theory:  To me, this is a great example of a song that is brilliantly written and structured, and so on paper, it should be a smash; but in the execution, it just doesn't resonate nearly as powerfully as one might think.  And this is why music is in such large part an art.  Still, it's very good and has some really cool things going on.
7.  The Count of Tuscany:  Some really cool things, and some that don't work nearly as well.  But certainly nothing bad about it in any way.  Even though it ranks last among the mega-epics, it's still a really good song.

And

It's too early to accurately grade/judge The Shadow Man Incident, but I would say A Change of Seasons is the one and only A+ plus here and the clear number one.

I don't see it cracking the top 3.  But I think I already like it more than IT, and it could potentially climb as high as 4.  So it's feeling like it might end up somewhere in the 4-6 range, but not sure where. 

[macneil]

Illumination Theory:  To me, this is a great example of a song that is brilliantly written and structured, and so on paper, it should be a smash; but in the execution, it just doesn't resonate nearly as powerfully as one might think.  And this is why music is in such large part an art.  Still, it's very good and has some really cool things going on.

Agreed, I feel very similarly about Illumination Theory. A great song on paper, and I think James' performance in the "You'll never know the joy in life" ending section is absolutely amazing, but as a whole for whatever reason it hasn't been one of my favourites.

• TCOT - One of those songs that never gets old for me, despite the occasionally silly lyrics. There's just something about that opening guitar riff.
• ACOS - A Dream Theater classic. In contrast to TCOT, the lyrics elevate this to one of DT's greatest and most emotionally resonant pieces.
• Octavarium - A song I've slightly cooled on over time, but it's still one of the best and a top 5 song for me. As others have said, basically a perfect example of a journey from the atmospheric intro all the way through to big epic ending.
• SDOIT - Very nostalgic for me personally as it was the first album I heard from the band. It's still pretty fantastic, though the lowest of the "classic" DT epics for me as I usually only listen to certain parts of it and not all the way through.
• AVFTTOTW - the first 1/2 to 2/3rds is some of the strongest material in the MM-era. The instrumental section is crazy. I find it tails off a little towards the end, but overall it's pretty awesome.
• ITPOE - The first part is amazing, the second part is pretty good.
• IT - See above.

Too early to rank Shadow Man, but I think it's pretty great. Like a lot on Parasomnia, I think it's stronger in context of the album, and I'm a big fan of the chorus.

[Jamesman42]

1. Octavarium - The perfect epic.
2. A Change of Seasons - Also perfect but Octavarium just edges it out.
3. The Count of Tuscany - Top 10 DT song.
4. In the Presence of Enemies - Like someone else said, this is getting better with age. 
5. The Shadow Man Incident - Hasn't quite grabbed me fully but I am enjoying it and it doesn't overstay its welcome.
6. Illumination Theory - Honestly, I would need to listen to it more but I always feel like I get bored some way through.
7. A View From the Top of the World - It has slightly gone up for me recently but it feels dull. It might hit me at some point.

I cannot seriously rank SDOIT in this list. The whole "it's one song!!1" thing is kind of silly, people rarely listen to it that way. I love SDOIT (album and the suite of songs) but it doesn't have that single entity epic feel like these others do.

[Northern Lion]

I cannot seriously rank SDOIT in this list. The whole "it's one song!!1" thing is kind of silly, people rarely listen to it that way. I love SDOIT (album and the suite of songs) but it doesn't have that single entity epic feel like these others do.

I do