Sincere question about Mangini's release

[ZirconBlue]

I think this all went down exactly how they've described. They have all seemed to be pretty upfront about how it all went down. I don't think there's anything nefarious about it.

Yeah, if there were anything Nefaryus about it, they would have given him 3 days notice.

[TAC]

Yeah, if there were anything Nefaryus about it, they would have given him 3 days notice.

 

That's astonishing.

[gzarruk]

I thought that MP went to the leg before Dreamsonic.

Yes, but he went to 2 DT shows during that time. The first one was the Top of the World Tour NYC show in 2022 (where he worked things out with James and took pics with most of the band) and the second was Dreamsonic in Philly, 2023.

This is what he shared from that second show:

[TAC]

Yes, but he went to 2 DT shows during that time. The first one was the Top of the World Tour NYC show in 2022 (where he worked things out with James and took pics with most of the band) and the second was Dreamsonic in Philly, 2023.

This is what he shared from that second show:

Oh cool! I didn't remember that.

[KevShmev]

I think this all went down exactly how they've described. They have all seemed to be pretty upfront about how it all went down. I don't think there's anything nefarious about it.

I doubt there is anything nefarious either, but not sure I buy this "lost in translation" business.  Portnoy's words reportedly were that Petrucci told him that the drum seat was open.  Now, that could have been him being coy knowing that he'd say yes, and if that is the case, that is a comment Portnoy probably should have kept to himself because those words, fair or not, make it sound like Mangini was on the way out either way.

[TAC]

because those words, fair or not, make it sound like Mangini was on the way out either way.

I can see how you could take it that way, but I just don't think that is how it was meant.

[KevShmev]

I can see how you could take it that way, but I just don't think that is how it was meant.

Again though, going public with that statement was probably more than a bit unwise.  Portnoy knows damn well how the DT online fanbase is, and it's possible that he was caught a bit off guard by the question and then just "told it like it is" like he likes to do, but all that does is open up how things were handled to interpretation.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

https://youtu.be/r5y3GhGD_jI?si=WXAv71A81cdR877Y

James at 4:30 talking about MM's response to the phone call citing 'the amount of history you all have together' - he also narrates that this began with talks about bringing Mike back.

https://youtu.be/ehK5cTKVAWI?si=VFmvT9htOYrSe_Y9

John at 2:00 telling the story. Specially after telling about how he and Mike got back together proceeding to comment on Mangini's reaction at 3:52

Their narrations of the events including any revealed info in the last year make no sense whatsoever if Mangini's removal wasn't to make way for MP.

[TAC]

https://youtu.be/r5y3GhGD_jI?si=WXAv71A81cdR877Y

James at 4:30 talking about MM's response to the phone call citing 'the amount of history you all have together' - he also narrates that this began with talks about bringing Mike back.

https://youtu.be/ehK5cTKVAWI?si=VFmvT9htOYrSe_Y9

John at 2:00 telling the story. Specially after telling about how he and Mike got back together proceeding to comment on Mangini's reaction at 3:52

Their narrations of the events including any revealed info in the last year make no sense whatsoever if Mangini's removal wasn't to make way for MP.

Right, and JP says specifically that "...there was no falling out."

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Right, and JP says specifically that "...there was no falling out."

Seems like the one thing in all of this that is solidly confirmed. Mike reconnected with the guys and they'd been having conversations - without Mangini - to bring him back. The only way for that to happen is to sever Mangini from his job, which is what they did. John calling him and telling him the seat is open doesn't even contradict any of that 

[macneil]

It seems extremely likely to me that it was just a figure of speech and he meant the seat was open if he wanted it. There is no evidence they would have let Mangini go had MP turned down the offer (could you imagine).

[nobloodyname]

The thing that stuck out with me in the response was that he sat down with his pottery gathered around him.  And I always wondered what he really said.

Loves a Ming vase and a bit of Wedgwood does our Kev.

[MirrorMask]

It seems extremely likely to me that it was just a figure of speech and he meant the seat was open if he wanted it. There is no evidence they would have let Mangini go had MP turned down the offer (could you imagine).

Yeah 100% agree on that. As others have said before, maybe it's also a translation issue, I'm sure Petrucci approached the question in a tactful way, and there's no chance in hell that he told Portnoy "so Mike, we really want you back, you in? let me know 'cause I gotta fire Mangini".

[hefdaddy42]

It seems extremely likely to me that it was just a figure of speech and he meant the seat was open if he wanted it. There is no evidence they would have let Mangini go had MP turned down the offer (could you imagine).

That's pretty much how Rudess got his spot as well.  

"If the keyboardist spot in DT were available, would you be interested?"  
"Yes I would."  
*band fires Derek*
"Spot's available.  Welcome, Jordan!"

[MoraWintersoul]

That's pretty much how Rudess got his spot as well. 

"If the keyboardist spot in DT were available, would you be interested?" 
"Yes I would." 
*band fires Derek*
"Spot's available.  Welcome, Jordan!"

Yeah, exactly. Guys, it can't be a translation issue, ? translated the bit himself back from Finnish and Inferno is a serious mag which wouldn't send someone to interview DT who would do their translation to Finnish poorly. It was just a "slot is open, you want it? great, I'm making the slot open".

The main find here is the most precise timeline we've ever gotten as to when Mike would have gotten the question.

[javidt]

https://youtu.be/ojJ_rzqsYYA?si=hOnjL-xCAk8YfDGs

In this interview Rudess kind of say that they were waiting to everything be in place to get  Portnoy back.

I think it's completely normal to want to play again with your friend once the drama finished and they reconnected.

By the way, nice words from Rudess to Mangini in the interview

[hefdaddy42]

https://youtu.be/ojJ_rzqsYYA?si=hOnjL-xCAk8YfDGs

In this interview Rudess kind of say that they were waiting to everything be in place to get  Portnoy back.

I think it's completely normal to want to play again with your friend once the drama finished and they reconnected.

By the way, nice words from Rudess to Mangini in the interview

Nice video!

[TAC]

https://youtu.be/ojJ_rzqsYYA?si=hOnjL-xCAk8YfDGs

In this interview Rudess kind of say that they were waiting to everything be in place to get  Portnoy back.

I think it's completely normal to want to play again with your friend once the drama finished and they reconnected.

By the way, nice words from Rudess to Mangini in the interview

Jordan kind of bugs me a bit the way he says things.

In this interview he says they did "ok", and "filled in the spaces". He used the comment of them doing "ok" in an earlier interview last year.

To me, it kind of denigrates the Mangini Era. Which is weird, because of all of the interviews after MP leaving, Jordan seemed to be the one that was most happy about how the change in the writing process went for ADTOE.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Jordan kind of bugs me a bit the way he says things.

In this interview he says they did "ok", and "filled in the spaces". He used the comment of them doing "ok" in an earlier interview last year.

To me, it kind of denigrates the Mangini Era. Which is weird, because of all of the interviews after MP leaving, Jordan seemed to be the one that was most happy about how the change in the writing process went for ADTOE.

It's just part of the hype marketing spin in my view. If you're going to pitch this reunion as this grand thing or a return to something better it helps if you make it sound like they were just treading water ('surviving') without Portnoy. Obviously this wasn't the tune he was singing when they released the previous 5 records including his and John's baby, the Astonishing. 

[TAC]

It's just part of the hype marketing spin in my view. If you're going to pitch this reunion as this grand thing or a return to something better it helps if you make it sound like they were just treading water ('surviving') without Portnoy. Obviously this wasn't the tune he was singing when they released the previous 5 records including his and John's baby, the Astonishing. 

Well, the marketing thing is bugging me then.

One thing I like about the guys in DT is that they do come off as being somewhat genuine. Praising one thing does not mean that you are implying that you are not praising another thing. So, if he said nothing at all, I wouldn't draw that distinction. But he didn't do that. He has said on at least two occasions that they did "ok".
To me, that's an active distinct statement.

The other thing that is bugging me in the recent interviews is the fact that they admit to basically "staying in their lane". They seem to be doubling down on what they do and what the fans expect. Well, it worked, because as much as I like Parasomnia, and I really like it, it's about the safest thing they could've done.

I know with ADTOE, JP wanted to write something that would put the fans at ease, and give them something familiar. I know there's the comparisons to some of the song structures with I&W and all, but ADTOE, to me, feels pretty unique in their catalog.

[Adami]

It's just part of the hype marketing spin in my view. If you're going to pitch this reunion as this grand thing or a return to something better it helps if you make it sound like they were just treading water ('surviving') without Portnoy. Obviously this wasn't the tune he was singing when they released the previous 5 records including his and John's baby, the Astonishing. 

This is assuming that either A) he hasn't changed his perspective, and/or B) his praising of the last several albums wasn't just a marketing spin.

But who knows?

And honestly, who cares?

[MirrorMask]

Imagine promoting cycles if they were brutally honest 

"yeah I mean we tried and tried but we came up only with middle of the road songs, I like the lead single which is the best track on the album but gosh I can't even bring myself to listen to track four and I hope no one in the band suggests we play it live"

[TAC]

And honestly, who cares?

We want the truth dammit!

which begs for the obvious response

[Max Kuehnau]

but ADTOE, to me, feels pretty unique in their catalog

because it is. All of the MM era albums are (D/T less so I'd guess, but even that one is in some ways)

[Adami]

Imagine promoting cycles if they were brutally honest 

"yeah I mean we tried and tried but we came up only with middle of the road songs, I like the lead single which is the best track on the album but gosh I can't even bring myself to listen to track four and I hope no one in the band suggests we play it live"

True, but also time gives you a different perspective. I remember doing albums of my own where, at the time, I was like "HELL YEA THIS ROCKS!" then looking back a number of years later, being like "Ehhhhh....not terrible, but eesh." Time changes things.

[Max Kuehnau]

Imagine promoting cycles if they were brutally honest 

"yeah I mean we tried and tried but we came up only with middle of the road songs, I like the lead single which is the best track on the album but gosh I can't even bring myself to listen to track four and I hope no one in the band suggests we play it live"

I'd be all for that actually. (and not releasing an album if it's naff)

[TAC]

because it is. All of the MM era albums are (D/T less so I'd guess, but even that one is in some ways)

I agree. There was something uniquely different about all of them. And that was the beauty of the Mangini Era. MP fanboys long for the days when DT made unique albums, pointing to the I&W-6 D's run, but they must've slept through the last 5 albums simply because MP wasn't on them.

[Max Kuehnau]

And that was the beauty of the Mangini Era.

One of the many yes.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

This is assuming that either A) he hasn't changed his perspective, and/or B) his praising of the last several albums wasn't just a marketing spin.

But who knows?

And honestly, who cares?

There was marketing spin on those albums as well. And yes I am assuming that has continued here.

[DreamerTV]

And honestly, who cares?

Thank god for Adami.

[Kyo]

The vibe I get from Jordan's comments is that he didn't like being bossed around by MP earlier, but over time came to dislike the increased responsibility of putting together songs with (mostly) just JP. I think Jordan is good at coming up with individual parts, chord sequences and such, but I rarely find him convincing when it comes to putting these ideas together into cohesive songs (talking about his solo albums). So my impression is that this is just not his forte, which would in turn mean that putting things together and keeping the big picture in mind would be mostly JP's responsibility whereas it was previously both JP and MP taking care of that part.

From how I understand DT's creative process, MP has this tendency to pick some idea he hears and run with it, dragging the others along with him by the force of sheer enthusiasm (and stubbornness, I guess). As a listener I am quite wary of the potentially rushed creative process that can be the result of this approach. But as a composer I also know the other side of the coin, the trial and error of putting together a new song without anyone there to say "yeah, that's it!" or "we could link this to that other idea...". Getting that kind of feedback and direction is the obvious upside of having someone like MP involved in the songwriting. And Jordan has referred to Mike's "director-like approach" in interviews.

[TAC]

The vibe I get from Jordan's comments is that he didn't like being bossed around by MP earlier, but over time came to dislike the increased responsibility of putting together songs with (mostly) just JP. I think Jordan is good at coming up with individual parts, chord sequences and such, but rarely find him convincing when it comes to putting these ideas together into cohesive songs (talking about his solo albums). So my impression is that this is just not his forte, which would in turn mean that putting things together and keeping the big picture in mind would be mostly JP's responsibility whereas it was previously both JP and MP taking care of that part.

Yeah, this all makes great sense, and I totally agree.

[hefdaddy42]

In this interview he says they did "ok", and "filled in the spaces". He used the comment of them doing "ok" in an earlier interview last year.

You are taking this a completely different way than I did.  I thought he was clearly exaggerating/underplaying, the way you do if someone pays you a compliment or something.  

He was saying they did OK.  He didn't mean they were ONLY OK.  He wasn't insulting that time of the band.  I mean, that seemed clear to me.

[TAC]

You are taking this a completely different way than I did.

There's a shock.

I thought he was clearly exaggerating/underplaying, the way you do if someone pays you a compliment or something. 

He was saying they did OK.  He didn't mean they were ONLY OK.  He wasn't insulting that time of the band.  I mean, that seemed clear to me.

Well, you're right. He was definitely downplaying..er..underplaying that time in the band. He should've just said nothing about it then.

[hefdaddy42]

There's a shock.


Well, you're right. He was definitely downplaying..er..underplaying that time in the band. He should've just said nothing about it then.

What the hell are you talking about?  He was saying it as if, "Hey, we did OK with Mangini.  We weren't terrible or needed a lifeline."  He even mentioned the Grammy!