Dream Theater - Midnight Messiah (Official Video)

[dream75]

Yes.

It's there, even if maybe it is in smaller doses than the norm.  What's wrong with that?  They were clearly going for the "metal" on this song, as they have done with others in their careers.  There are plenty of other songs to bring the prog.

How is that somehow a bad thing?  See previous answer.

Eh, maybe on this song.  But he is front and center elsewhere, so I don't really get the criticism.

Maybe I'm too old 😅 I love the first 5 albums and I don't like songs that are too metal 😐
The keyboards can't be heard, the riffs are typically trashy, and even the song structure is not prog

[durga2112]

By the way, has anyone else been wondering why Saruman is on the cover art? 

[Kocak]

By the way, has anyone else been wondering why Saruman is on the cover art? 

Obviously, he pulled some magic crap with Hugh Syme's AI generator.

[SeRoX]

6:35-7:15 is pure amazing. I wonder how it will sound live.

[Northern Lion]

6:35-7:15 is pure amazing. I wonder how it will sound live.

I think this song is going to be really fun live.

[Thoughtspart3]

Want to keep listening but don't want to overplay it with the album coming soon. So hard to wait though.

From what MP said there are some repeated themes that connect the album together which I love. Don't want to skip any songs because I already wore them out.

[billboy73]

Finally listened today. This is right up there with Night Terror for me.  Really like James' vocal lines on this one, and some nice riffs. 

Can't wait to hear the whole album!

[Shadowmangini]

It's kind of a weird paradox, isn't it? Bands like Dream Theater and Iron Maiden are so identifiable and unique, but this can actually lead to their albums feeling kind of same-y. Whereas a lot of artists, for example in pop music, just kind of make whatever music the algorithm wants at the time, which feels a lot less unique, but it does mean when you look back at their careers, their body of work is way more unpredictable. Taylor Swift's discography, for example, is an absolute roller coaster ride in a way that Dream Theater's isn't.

Bob Dylan is a good example, an artist who went from greenwich village folk to hard electric guitar rock then into outright country, then moved into weird 1980s sounding pop rock and so on. Prog metal is admittedly fairly typecast. DT has never dabbled much outside of prog metal, prog rock, thrash metal influence, alt metal influence, occasionally on a song or two maybe something crazy but they don't ever  full album effort their way into new territory .James LaBrie's solo albums try to a little bit more than DT does

[Shooters1221]

The video is well done with syncing and all but I really feel the mood of this song with just audio and eyes closed, the intro with the spoken word and the male choir patch leading into the heavy shit sets the rest of a great piece of music IMO! Loving what I'm hearing from all 3 singles...can't wait to hear the rest!

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't think I posted my thoughts yet.

I really like the intro and how it builds up. Specifically JM's bass lines; it starts with coming in with the drums playing a sort of lead melody underneath the sampled section, playing whole notes during the choir section, and following along with the riff until it explodes into the main riff.

The main riff brings up the groove of New Millennium before going to the As I Am verse riff. The vocals actually blend the vocal rhythms of both songs, and JLB's vocals here fit well with his gritty tone.

My favorite part is the pre-chorus. The piano, JLB's vocal melodies, along with the rhythm have a weird blend that somehow makes me think of The Bigger Picture, that's probably why I like it. I also like how the second pre-chorus is different as well having more of a bigger buildup to the chorus.

JR's ambient patch in the second verse gives me the same vibes as The Bigger Picture as well for some reason, even though it's still in the same groove of New Millennium and As I Am.   

The bridge into the solo section has that good melodic groove which makes for a great impact when the solo hits. The unison part is cool as well, and me thinks this is where JR will come out with his Keytar to the front of the stage before he heads back to his keys for the following piano parts of the third pre-chorus.

Overall, I actually enjoyed this a lot. I had many listens already before this post so I had time to digest it a bit. If I am being honest, I prefer this song over As I Am and would be glad if it replaces it coming up in the US leg. The grooves of both NM and AIA fit in this song especially being preceded by that haunting intro. It really does place me in a dream state, and it being about the inception, awakening within a dream has that same vibe with the intenseness of the chorus. I think this will be a good live song and think it will definitely become a new live favorite.

[CraftyCaleb2483]

If I am being honest, I prefer this song over As I Am

Same here

[Pettor]

I haven't listened to this, as the other 2 singles.
But from what i read here, this Midnight Messiah sounds like Behind the Veil.
Do they have similarity or are these two completely different songs?

I feel I can confidently say - no they don't sound alike. It's a song I never thought to compare Midnight Messiah to, but at the same time I am always surprised how varied the opinions and comparisons in the forums are.

As I Am has been one of the few comparisons I sort of at least see a similarity with.

[Max Kuehnau]

By the way, has anyone else been wondering why Saruman is on the cover art? 

I actually thought of a Dementor (after they changed jobs from working at Azkaban Prison  )

[Northern Lion]

I feel I can confidently say - no they don't sound alike. It's a song I never thought to compare Midnight Messiah to, but at the same time I am always surprised how varied the opinions and comparisons in the forums are.

As I Am has been one of the few comparisons I sort of at least see a similarity with.

Me too. I wouldn't compare Behind the Veil with Midnight Messiah. I don't think they have any in common other than they are both metal sings written by Dream Theater.

[Glasser]

To me Midnight Messiah sounds nothing like anything they've done, especially the chorus.

[hefdaddy42]

To me Midnight Messiah sounds nothing like anything they've done, especially the chorus.

It sounds a lot like multiple things they've done before to me. 

[Ben_Jamin]

To me Midnight Messiah sounds nothing like anything they've done, especially the chorus.

Even the lyrics?   

[Glasser]

It sounds a lot like multiple things they've done before to me.

Well that's "you, not me" have some bacon

[nobloodyname]

Your bacon's writing cheques tonight that your wallet can't cash

Also, is it American bacon or proper bacon?

[Glasser]

Your bacon's writing cheques tonight that your wallet can't cash

Also, is it American bacon or proper bacon?

Not sure. What is proper bacon?

[Thoughtspart3]

I am not seeing the As I Am comparison either.

[Volante99]

I'm gonna come out and say it-
As far as straight ahead headbangers/rockers go, this is probably the bottom 5 songs DT has ever done. For a thrash song it's about 20% too slow, with the exception of the chorus (play it at 1.25x speed- you're welcome). This song is tailor made for Portnoy's strengths and even he seems uninspired here.

On the plus side JR is hanging back but for this type of song that's a feature not a bug. JLB sounds good.

Otherwise, getting less and less amped for this album with each release.

[Dream Team]

It sounds a lot like multiple things they've done before to me.

There's a section that sounds a lot like a section toward the beginning of ACoS.

[SeRoX]

MM can be great setlist opener. So much The Root Of All Evil and As I Am vibe there.

[Volante99]

I don't want to come off as too negative but these singles really aren't doing it for me.

I was hoping Portnoy's presence would breathe some life into the proceedings as there were definite signs of getting some of that mojo back in the LTE 3 and Terminal Velocity, both of which I think are stellar for what they are- but (Portnoy's playing style aside) these feel like they could have been leftovers from "A View from...". Hell, these singles sound like they could have been leftovers from DT12.

What's always attracted me to DT is their ability to push the genre, explore the boundaries, giving us some memorable moments and surprises along the way. I'm just not getting that, and haven't for a long time. I still consider myself a DT fan, but the fact remains; the last album I TRULY connected with was ADToE.

And I can't quite put my finger on it- has DT changed or have my musical preferences changed? DT's music usually transcends the time in which it's recorded in, but these singles sound like 2010...and I feel like metal/prog has moved past that. Perhaps I'm asking too much for a band that's 40 years into their run but they are really starting to sound exactly like that. It's just a bit tired sounding- we seem to be cruising into "dad metal" territory.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I don't want to come off as too negative but these singles really aren't doing it for me.

I was hoping Portnoy's presence would breathe some life into the proceedings as there were definite signs of getting some of that mojo back in the LTE 3 and Terminal Velocity, both of which I think are stellar for what they are- but (Portnoy's playing style aside) these feel like they could have been leftovers from "A View from...". Hell, these singles sound like they could have been leftovers from DT12.

What's always attracted me to DT is their ability to push the genre, explore the boundaries, giving us some memorable moments and surprises along the way. I'm just not getting that, and haven't for a long time. I still consider myself a DT fan, but the fact remains; the last album I TRULY connected with was ADToE.

And I can't quite put my finger on it- has DT changed or have my musical preferences changed? DT's music usually transcends the time in which it's recorded in, but these singles sound like 2010...and I feel like metal/prog has moved past that. Perhaps I'm asking too much for a band that's 40 years into their run but they are really starting to sound exactly like that. It's just a bit tired sounding- we seem to be cruising into "dad metal" territory.

I mean, LTE3 is the same deal as the singles in a way, no? Songs are fine but ultimately nothing new and especially with NT and MM they exhibit similarities to the preceding albums. Seems to me that LTE3 was a preview of how a DT reunion would go.

This line up has made a LOT of music together over a long period of time. The biggest criticism of DT in general is that they succumbed to a type of musical monotony a long time ago. The remedy to that was never going to be to reunite with the same 60-year old drummer who shared in that criticism. To my ears, it actually appears to have turned them backwards. The interviews have confirmed it as well: they embraced the nostalgia.

[Kyo]

(Portnoy's playing style aside) these feel like they could have been leftovers from "A View from...". Hell, these singles sound like they could have been leftovers from DT12.

That doesn't sound like you appreciate what makes DT12 and View interesting albums.

For these singles to sound like something from DT12, they would have to be shorter and more focused instead of having these 2-minute intros and occasionally out-of-place, overly long instrumental sections for the sake of having some shred in there.

For them to sound like something from View, they would have to be more interesting rhythmically rather than serve up extended bits of 4/4 riffing and they'd have to feature fewer sections that sound like something they've done before (something they deliberately accepted this time around according to MP while JR said this was something they deliberately tried to avoid on View, especially when it came to their verses often sounding too similar).

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

^agreed 100%

Sounds nothing like DT12 or View no matter if you like or dislike those records.

Also ironically I think when DT12 came out it brought something quite new to the table.

[Volante99]

I mean, LTE3 is the same deal as the singles in a way, no? Songs are fine but ultimately nothing new and especially with NT and MM they exhibit similarities to the preceding albums. Seems to me that LTE3 was a preview of how a DT reunion would go.

Yeah but I have higher expectations of a DT album than I do an LTE album (or a solo guitar record for that matter) which is why I qualified my praise. No LTE3 isn't groundbreaking but it were also talking about project that written and recorded over the course of a few weekends in their spare time.

What I DID feel in those albums
was a renewed sense of energy and chemistry with Portnoy/Petrucci playing together- and I still think they are born to play together. There was "spark" if you will. Conversely, I'm not feeling that same "spark" in these singles. If anything, these songs feel very "Mangini-era" to me.

Obviously a big piece of that is Petrucci, clearly, still steering the ship with regards to writing (which at this point, is very "riff" based as another poster pointed out) but I'm also hearing what I feel is an uninspired Portnoy.

I mean, these type of songs are tailor made for Portnoy's strengths- he SHOULD be crushing it (alá ToT or even BC&SL). I mean, you can tell it's Portnoy, but he's just sorta there. The best way I can describe is that it sounds like Petrucci bought the "Mike Portnoy" software plugin and slapped it on his songs. Of course that might also be a reflection Portnoy's new (probably somewhat diminished) role in the band.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Yeah but I have higher expectations of a DT album than I do an LTE album (or a solo guitar record for that matter) which is why I qualified my praise. No LTE3 isn't groundbreaking but it were also talking about project that written and recorded over the course of a few weekends in their spare time.

What I DID feel in those albums
was a renewed sense of energy and chemistry with Portnoy/Petrucci playing together- and I still think they are born to play together. There was "spark" if you will. Conversely, I'm not feeling that same "spark" in these singles. If anything, these songs feel very "Mangini-era" to me.

Obviously a big piece of that is Petrucci, clearly, still steering the ship with regards to writing (which at this point, is very "riff" based as another poster pointed out) but I'm also hearing what I feel is an uninspired Portnoy.

I mean, these type of songs are tailor made for Portnoy's strengths- he SHOULD be crushing it (alá ToT or even BC&SL). I mean, you can tell it's Portnoy, but he's just sorta there. The best way I can describe is that it sounds like Petrucci bought the "Mike Portnoy" software plugin and slapped it on his songs. Of course that might also be a reflection Portnoy's new (probably somewhat diminished) role in the band.

The call backs - lyrical and instrumental - are all to MP1 era material, so how are they Mangin-era? In one of the recent interviews, Mike said many times they would play something that reminded them of 'old' DT and they embraced it.

I get what you're saying about feeling disappointed but at the end of the day the guys are doing exactly what they've always done. I think maybe expectations were a little out of whack in some areas on the fanbase.

James said in an interview it felt like Mike went out for a coffee and came back. That appears to be exactly the problem. The singles sound like muscle memory and nostalgia gumbo, but I don't see how Mike is under-delivering. I listened to nearly every project he did after he left DT - including LTE3 - and his playing sounds in line.

[Volante99]

That doesn't sound like you appreciate what makes DT12 and View interesting albums.

For these singles to sound like something from DT12, they would have to be shorter and more focused instead of having these 2-minute intros and occasionally out-of-place, overly long instrumental sections for the sake of having some shred in there.

Song length aside, that's pretty much exactly how I feel about the new singles. Of course there are nuances, but bottom line, for all the expectations (admittedly my own) of Portnoy shaking things up, bringing something new to the table, or hell, even bringing back a sense of nostalgia, these songs, to me, feel right at home with Mangini-Era DT- which (as you may have guessed) is disappointing to me. 

[Glasser]

I mean, LTE3 is the same deal as the singles in a way, no? Songs are fine but ultimately nothing new and especially with NT and MM they exhibit similarities to the preceding albums. Seems to me that LTE3 was a preview of how a DT reunion would go.

This line up has made a LOT of music together over a long period of time. The biggest criticism of DT in general is that they succumbed to a type of musical monotony a long time ago. The remedy to that was never going to be to reunite with the same 60-year old drummer who shared in that criticism. To my ears, it actually appears to have turned them backwards. The interviews have confirmed it as well: they embraced the nostalgia.

DT is an empire, a business. They need to support their families and it's coming to an end sooner than later. It's impossible to make everyone happy so they need to just do what they do. They did the MP reunion tour and now the Parasomnia tour. $$$. We're lucky they're still making music. The new stuff might not be their best but it's still pretty great.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

DT is an empire, a business. They need to support their families and it's coming to an end sooner than later. It's impossible to make everyone happy so they need to just do what they do. They did the MP reunion tour and now the Parasomnia tour. $$$. We're lucky they're still making music. The new stuff might not be their best but it's still pretty great.

Amen to all of that, my friend

[wolfking]

I don't want to come off as too negative but these singles really aren't doing it for me.

I was hoping Portnoy's presence would breathe some life into the proceedings as there were definite signs of getting some of that mojo back in the LTE 3 and Terminal Velocity, both of which I think are stellar for what they are- but (Portnoy's playing style aside) these feel like they could have been leftovers from "A View from...". Hell, these singles sound like they could have been leftovers from DT12.

What's always attracted me to DT is their ability to push the genre, explore the boundaries, giving us some memorable moments and surprises along the way. I'm just not getting that, and haven't for a long time. I still consider myself a DT fan, but the fact remains; the last album I TRULY connected with was ADToE.

And I can't quite put my finger on it- has DT changed or have my musical preferences changed? DT's music usually transcends the time in which it's recorded in, but these singles sound like 2010...and I feel like metal/prog has moved past that. Perhaps I'm asking too much for a band that's 40 years into their run but they are really starting to sound exactly like that. It's just a bit tired sounding- we seem to be cruising into "dad metal" territory.

I didn't mind NT, was so so on ABM but have no real issue with MM.  When you say 'leftovers', you must not think much of the MM era?  Now hearing at least these three new songs has actually made me realise that this new album possibly might be the least original and progressive since MP left the band.  I had no real problem with the MM era, and while a little hit and miss, these new tracks are actually making me dive back into that period more.  So, my point is, if you thought those albums weren't great, use what's on offer with these new tracks to go back and really appreciate more of the MM albums.  That's what these songs are doing for me, if that makes sense.  It's really opening up an album like A View and realising how intricate, progressive and creative it really is.

Also, wait for the album and give it the benefit of the doubt as a whole.  Everything might work a lot better for you in context.

[wolfking]

DT is an empire, a business. They need to support their families and it's coming to an end sooner than later. It's impossible to make everyone happy so they need to just do what they do. They did the MP reunion tour and now the Parasomnia tour. $$$. We're lucky they're still making music. The new stuff might not be their best but it's still pretty great.

That's it.  We can choose to appreciate any new music they give us and if we don't like it, well, the old albums are always there.  And you're right Tom, I think people forget sometimes that DT is a business and things get harder as time goes on so we can forgive them for not ever evolving each album as much as we'd like or as much as they were in their younger days.

Funny, DT of now is still better than the majority of what's out there anyway, so we are blessed as fans.