From Reddit: Jordan Rudess: A Complicated Legend

[Mladen]

About Myung, you are already the second person who says the same thing (besides the Brazilian YouTuber I mentioned in another post). I didn't notice much difference, but maybe I wasn't very observant about it. In any case, he only left his corner to minimally interact with JP in PMU and it was brief. The rest of the show he was in Myungland. 

This is kind of true. Usually, JP and JM get to the center of the stage and perform next to one another multiple times during a show, but this time around they only did that for Pull me under. However, I stood at his side of the stage last month and noticed he talks to his technician in between songs, they actually crack jokes between each other. So he's still having fun.

[Dedalus]

This is kind of true. Usually, JP and JM get to the center of the stage and perform next to one another multiple times during a show, but this time around they only did that for Pull me under. However, I stood at his side of the stage last month and noticed he talks to his technician in between songs, they actually crack jokes between each other. So he's still having fun.

Just like at my show. He interacts a lot with his technician between songs.

Maybe he likes him more than his bandmates (just kidding).

[Thoughtspart3]

I agree with many of you who think it is just their style of play and heavy guitar emphasis. They are not utilizing Jordon nearly as much as they could. There is so much beautiful playing on TA. Jordon could actually write a piece similar to Mozart if he tried. I think it is almost criminal how little he is featured on many songs. That is probably why he looks board sometimes on stage.

JR was a big reason that I started to love DT during the Scenes and 6 degrees days. 

[nattmorker]

The dueling keyboard-guitar solos were probably at their height during the late MP era, and if anything were dialed back after Mangini joined the band. I don't think this is a recent phenomena - It's been the case for over 20 years.

That said, I've opined on several occasions how I don't think the band are taking full advantage of what the keyboards can offer, and I don't think it's only because of JR. Their music has become almost completely guitar driven, whereas through Scenes or even Six Degrees, there was more of a balance. It can be a bit frustrating because JR freaking crushes it on projects like Liquid Tension Experiment.

Totally agree with this.

On a more personal opinion, I might be in the minority, but I enjoy his solos and absolutely love this circus/ragtime/etc. sections.

However, as the quoted post above says, I think DT has not been taking full advantage of his incredible talent.

[Öxölklöfför]

My 5 cents...

When talking about leads, my favourite keyboard solo is Kevin Moores solo in Take the time. That's my reference on how a good keyboard solo should be composed. Just so you know where I come from. The thing about it is how well it fits the song, and how it builds up to its climax in the end. It really serves its purpose in the song. That's really the thing about KM's playing overall, it serves the song.

That's where I think that Jordan "fails" sometimes, that he plays fast just for the sake of playing fast, and it don't always fits with the rest of the song. Sometimes I get the feeling that he does it because it's "expected" of him to do just that, as one of the world's most capable keyboardists. Unfortunately it also makes his solos a bit hard to remember, they (most often) sound the same.

OTOH I think that Jordans piano work stands head and shoulders above both KM and DS work. Both from a compositional standpoint and a technical standpoint (my favourite piano pieces with him would be About to crash and When the water breaks).

[Skeever]

My take is that Jordan Rudess is a zany, go-anywhere kind of player who represent the kind of substance DT were always known for, who started to become a bit of an awkward placement in streamlined sound they started honing in on after Six Degrees. You went with Rudess because you wanted the guy who could do a Zappa-esque keyboard solo that went into a ragtime solo that went into circus music that went into an epic symphonic climax. He was absolutely the right choice for the mid-00s band that leaned heavily into that stuff. He was perhaps NOT the best choice for the band that writes straight-forward Metallica-esque songs about joining the illuminati or confronting the enemy inside. Therefore, I do not knock Jordan at all - he was the right player for the right gig, and then there was a period where the band went in a direction where the gig changed a bit, but there was no reason to downgrade because he was still one of the best players around, and the band still utilize him fully a few times per album.

But listen to the albums he did with Tony Levin and Marco Minnemann, or listen to LTE stuff... there, JR is in his sweet spot. The band still do experimental, unexpected things on every single album, so I can't complain - I'm definitely not trying to say they've become some kind of in-the-pocket metal band. But it's not exactly how it was when JR joined; they've certainly honed in to some accessible, predictable elements, and keep the really off-the-wall stuff segmented to its place in a way that they didn't before. T

[Bertie_Wooster]

In their videos about the Atonishing JR and JP both said that just because they play it doesnt mean they actually wrote it.  Meaning sometimes they will play stuff the other person wrote.

Like the solo on "A View from the top of the world"    I am pretty sure Jordan wrote it with each of them playing their version of it.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

My take is that Jordan Rudess is a zany, go-anywhere kind of player who represent the kind of substance DT were always known for, who started to become a bit of an awkward placement in streamlined sound they started honing in on after Six Degrees. You went with Rudess because you wanted the guy who could do a Zappa-esque keyboard solo that went into a ragtime solo that went into circus music that went into an epic symphonic climax. He was absolutely the right choice for the mid-00s band that leaned heavily into that stuff. He was perhaps NOT the best choice for the band that writes straight-forward Metallica-esque songs about joining the illuminati or confronting the enemy inside. Therefore, I do not knock Jordan at all - he was the right player for the right gig, and then there was a period where the band went in a direction where the gig changed a bit, but there was no reason to downgrade because he was still one of the best players around, and the band still utilize him fully a few times per album.

But listen to the albums he did with Tony Levin and Marco Minnemann, or listen to LTE stuff... there, JR is in his sweet spot. The band still do experimental, unexpected things on every single album, so I can't complain - I'm definitely not trying to say they've become some kind of in-the-pocket metal band. But it's not exactly how it was when JR joined; they've certainly honed in to some accessible, predictable elements, and keep the really off-the-wall stuff segmented to its place in a way that they didn't before. T

You know, I've been chewing on this same thought for years now, and I think you've nailed it better than most. When Jordan joined the band, he was exactly the right guy for what they were trying to do at that time—wild, boundless creativity with a sense of humor and fearlessness. The "ragtime to circus music to symphonic climax" thing is a perfect way to put it. That energy is what made Scenes from a Memory and Six Degrees feel like they were bursting at the seams with ideas.

But you're right—after that, the band's direction shifted. They started streamlining their sound, and Jordan's zaniness didn't always slot in as naturally. I'd never knock his talent (the man's a monster on the keys), but there were moments where it felt like his instincts didn't quite mesh with the more straightforward, riff-driven material. It's not that he couldn't do it—of course, he can play anything—it's that his natural inclinations leaned more toward the off-the-wall stuff that wasn't as front and center anymore.

I'll admit, I've missed some of the "anything goes" madness of the early 2000s albums, but I also respect how the band has evolved. Jordan still gets his moments, and when they let him cut loose—whether it's on a Liquid Tension Experiment album or even a track like "Illumination Theory"—it's a reminder of what makes him special.

At the end of the day, I think it's a testament to the band that they've adapted to all these shifts in style and lineup without losing their identity. Jordan's role might have changed, but he's still one of the most unique voices in prog, and we're lucky to have him in DT.

[Kyo]

First of all, this thread is giving me headaches. The title spells Jordan's name "Jorden". Then there's some guy using "Jordon". Can't people read anymore?

Anyway, I do think many people aren't very good at telling what Jordan brings to the band compositionally and the "just cause JP is playing it doesn't mean he wrote it" bit is pretty decisive here.

But that aside, I think Skeever's post from just above gets close to what I see as the cause of the main problem with Jordan's contributions. I would put it even more bluntly: The weak spot of Jordan's performances isn't the accompaniment, as in the main harmonic foundation he provides, the atmospheric touches or even the riffing (if it's done on keys). It's the solos. And this, too, stems from the stylistic change over the years. And I think that infamous in-the-studio video when they were constructing the somewhat infamous solo section of A Rite of Passage is typical for their "problem", if you will: You have a cool riff. And you want to use it underneath a solo. But you can't just use it under a guitar solo because live, there won't be a rhythm guitarist to cover that part and it'll sound thin. So you have the guitar play it without a solo on top first (which tends to make the songs more bloated) or/and you have Jordan take the solo over JP playing the riff. Problem solved? No, because this never ever plays to Jordan's strengths. He's good at soloing over harmonically interesting content. But he's unimaginative and repetitive when soloing over riffs. Instead of constructing a melodic solo, he typically goes for what I'm sure they consider "intensity" to match the energy of the music. The result is mostly a lot of "wheeee" upward bended notes, the occasional long "bwooooo" downward bend, and a whole lot of interchangeable fast runs up or down the scale inbetween. A friend of mine pointed out how many of his solos (granted, this is more obvious in his guest appearances on other people's music) start off with a fast run up the scale to a bended note, have some of the previously described stuff in the middle and end with that downward bend over an octave or two.

A recent example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KwtRz4vIaM

As a result, there tends to be little melody and not much of memorable substance in these solos. And we all know there's no shortage of them on DT's albums, even if there have been positive exceptions over the decades.

I have no problem at all with the rest of Jordan's contributions and I don't think many people do. But those synth solos, I dunno. Jordan reliably sounds more inspired on organ and especially on piano because those force him to think of actual melodies or chords instead of pitch-bending every other note to achieve "intensity".

[hefdaddy42]

First of all, this thread is giving me headaches. The title spells Jordan's name "Jorden". Then there's some guy using "Jordon". Can't people read anymore?

Fixed

[Schurftkut]

Fixed

Then you could also remove the 2nd s from his last name, as his real name's written with 1 s (rudes)

[hefdaddy42]

Then you could also remove the 2nd s from his last name, as his real name's written with 1 s (rudes)

His professional name is Rudess.  I don't know him personally, so we'll stick with his professional name.

[Orbert]

First of all, this thread is giving me headaches. The title spells Jordan's name "Jorden". Then there's some guy using "Jordon". Can't people read anymore?

Thank you!  That kind of shit drives me crazy.  You want us to take you seriously, respect your opinions, etc., but you can't even be bothered to correctly spell the name of the guy we're talking about?

I know that there are some people with legitimate issues, and that can affect their spelling.  We know who they are, we give them shit about it from time to time, it's all good (good natured as far as I know).  But when it just smacks of laziness and IDGAF, those posts mean slightly more than nothing to me.

[ReaperKK]

A recent example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KwtRz4vIaM

Never heard this before, killer song and Jordan's solo is about what I expected.