Mike Portnoy's DRUMEO Breaking Down DT's New Album: "Parasomnia" NOW

[Dream Team]

I realized that I never really paid much attention to it. I think it's going to be a non issue going forward.



MP said that he's going through the MM material to see which songs he feels or speaks to him, or something like that, and I think that's important and why I'm confident that it'll be a non issue. If JP says pick two or three that YOU want to play, I think that bodes much better than JP handing MP a handful of songs and telling him to learn them, though MP is such a professional, I'm not sure we'd even know the difference anyway.

Come to think of it, it's a little confusing . . . he said he already wrote the set list; so why would he also say he's going through the songs to see which ones speak to him? Late additions to the rotation?

[TAC]

Come to think of it, it's a little confusing . . . he said he already wrote the set list; so why would he also say he's going through the songs to see which ones speak to him? Late additions to the rotation?

Nice call out.

Perhaps he left two or three "slots" open for the Mangini material.

[KevShmev]

JLB can't do it because he is lazy and complacent and refuses to plan ahead by altering melodies or getting in shape, instead preferring to screech his way through his live performances.

Has James ever come out and said he doesn't practice much anymore?  Because Mike Portnoy has.

[TAC]

Has James ever come out and said he doesn't practice much anymore?  Because Mike Portnoy has.

I think MP's quote has really taken on more life than they deserve. And as far as JLB practicing...what do his performances tell you??

Perhaps like Jon Bon Jovi, who just admitted that he will likely no longer be able to tour due to his vocal chords, JLB may be in a similar spot.

[KevShmev]

Oh, I agree.  From what I saw of James from the last tour, it wasn't good.  As I have said, I hope he can get it back, but I am not overly optimistic, because sometimes when your voice goes, there is only so much you can do.

Mike is still obviously really good on the drums, but I did notice the last few times I saw him live (with Neal Morse Band and Transatlantic) that some of his drum parts were "dumbed down" a bit.  As a professional air drummer, I definitely noticed it.   Of course, that is often explained away as "he always plays differently live," which sometimes does feel like a copout for "he can't play it quite as good anymore."  That said, I am sure he will do just fine on the upcoming DT, and his skill set is obviously crazy high, even if it's not Mangini level (which doesn't bother me, since I feel like Portnoy's drumming is more fun and loose than Mangini's, overall).

[hefdaddy42]

As a professional air drummer, I definitely noticed it.  

Credentials are important. 

[Lonk]

Oh, I agree.  From what I saw of James from the last tour, it wasn't good.  As I have said, I hope he can get it back, but I am not overly optimistic, because sometimes when your voice goes, there is only so much you can do.

Mike is still obviously really good on the drums, but I did notice the last few times I saw him live (with Neal Morse Band and Transatlantic) that some of his drum parts were "dumbed down" a bit.  As a professional air drummer, I definitely noticed it.   Of course, that is often explained away as "he always plays differently live," which sometimes does feel like a copout for "he can't play it quite as good anymore."  That said, I am sure he will do just fine on the upcoming DT, and his skill set is obviously crazy high, even if it's not Mangini level (which doesn't bother me, since I feel like Portnoy's drumming is more fun and loose than Mangini's, overall).

I also think that MP knows that all eyes (ears?) will be on the drums and what he does, so I would think he will try to bring his A game to live shows.

[Dream Team]

The cliche of "playing for the song" is often invoked to excuse bad or boring drumming. In MP's case, at least in the old days, he was definitely also trying to win the drummer magazine polls. His playing was a perfect mix of serving the song but adding enough flair, technicality, and pizzazz to make him the favorite drummer of many on this board including me. I think he will have the same approach on DT16 and what I always look forward to the most is what kind of crazy rhythms he'll come up with. 

[Adami]

The cliche of "playing for the song" is often invoked to excuse bad or boring drumming.

Is it? Shouldn't every musician always be playing for the song?

[Dream Team]

Is it? Shouldn't every musician always be playing for the song?

What does that mean to YOU? Hasn't MP always over-played beyond what the song needs? By some definition playing for the song just means kick on 1 and 3 and snare on 2 and 4 and nothing else. So it means something different to every person and no one would agree. Nick Mason just played for the song; imagine if MP played like that.

[Adami]

What does that mean to YOU? Hasn't MP always over-played beyond what the song needs? By some definition playing for the song just means kick on 1 and 3 and snare on 2 and 4 and nothing else. So it means something different to every person and no one would agree. Nick Mason just played for the song; imagine if MP played like that.

Guess it depends on the song.

[Jamesman42]

What are some examples where MP has overplayed?

[Mosh]

Guess it depends on the song.

Really all it comes down to. I think this idea that these professional musicians don't know how to "play for the song" is one of the most ridiculous music criticism cliches. Of course MP always plays for the song- he helped write the songs. Same with Mangini even if he didn't always directly contribute creatively as much, if he was overplaying or not doing the material justice JP wouldn't have allowed those performances to make the record. Comparing MP to Nick Mason is stupid because Pink Floyd and Dream Theater are very different bands with very different styles. And, judging by the fact that DT covered an entire Pink Floyd album live, MP clearly knows how to adjust for different playing situations.

Just in general I think a lot of this MM vs MP debate has really done little beyond minimizing both players' capabilities. They're both amazing drummers and brought different things to Dream Theater. This idea that Portnoy is a lazy bum who doesn't practice and won't be able to handle MM's drum parts is laughable to me. On the other hand, if you don't think MM can "groove" or can't play with feel or something, go listen to him play in Extreme. At the end of the day, the fans win because we've gotten to hear two world class drummers bring their own flavor to our favorite band. I'm glad the band is trying to finish with the original founding drummer in it, but I am also glad we got a decade of something different and both parties revitalized at the end of it. I think there's a pretty good chance we wouldn't even be talking about a 40th anniversary tour if that change hadn't been made back in 2010.

[Schurftkut]

What are some examples where MP has overplayed?

there's a really eggracious fill on I&W on one of the ballads, like seriously you couldn't play a bit less??

[The Letter M]

there's a really eggracious fill on I&W on one of the ballads, like seriously you couldn't play a bit less??

A gracious Easter egg? NuGgEtZ!

-Marc.

[Jamesman42]

Wait for Sleep is the only song where MP is overplaying

[Metro]

The drums on Wait for Sleep are CRAZY

[TAC]

The drums on Wait for Sleep are CRAZY

Oh yeah. There's no way that guy doesn't practice.

[hefdaddy42]

I mean, there WAS a version of Wait For Sleep with drums.  But MP didn't overplay on it.

[Jamesman42]

Link? I either don't know it or forgot it.

[hefdaddy42]

Link? I either don't know it or forgot it.

I have no link.

They did it live on the Images & Words tour.  Full band.  It's on the Images & Words: Live in Tokyo VHS/DVD.

[faizoff]

I have no link.

They did it live on the Images & Words tour.  Full band.  It's on the Images & Words: Live in Tokyo VHS/DVD.

I remember really liking it, it's more like accenting the song than full on drums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2vucisgnWY&ab_channel=TommyLeeJack

[Jamesman42]

I remember really liking it, it's more like accenting the song than full on drums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2vucisgnWY&ab_channel=TommyLeeJack

I was right, he was overplaying!

[brakkum]

I was right, he was overplaying!

[faizoff]

Lol I love the straight to jail meme.

[Puppies_On_Acid]

Lol I love the straight to jail meme.

I know right?

Me and my business partners have been using it quite a bit lately. We had to call the cops and get a No-Trespass put on one of our former employees recently and that was the first thing we all were thinking....Straight to jail.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Really all it comes down to. I think this idea that these professional musicians don't know how to "play for the song" is one of the most ridiculous music criticism cliches. Of course MP always plays for the song- he helped write the songs. Same with Mangini even if he didn't always directly contribute creatively as much, if he was overplaying or not doing the material justice JP wouldn't have allowed those performances to make the record. Comparing MP to Nick Mason is stupid because Pink Floyd and Dream Theater are very different bands with very different styles. And, judging by the fact that DT covered an entire Pink Floyd album live, MP clearly knows how to adjust for different playing situations.

Just in general I think a lot of this MM vs MP debate has really done little beyond minimizing both players' capabilities. They're both amazing drummers and brought different things to Dream Theater. This idea that Portnoy is a lazy bum who doesn't practice and won't be able to handle MM's drum parts is laughable to me. On the other hand, if you don't think MM can "groove" or can't play with feel or something, go listen to him play in Extreme. At the end of the day, the fans win because we've gotten to hear two world class drummers bring their own flavor to our favorite band. I'm glad the band is trying to finish with the original founding drummer in it, but I am also glad we got a decade of something different and both parties revitalized at the end of it. I think there's a pretty good chance we wouldn't even be talking about a 40th anniversary tour if that change hadn't been made back in 2010.

I think your characterization of what has been said here is pretty ungenerous.

No one called him a lazy bum and to the second part of this sentence, you don't seem to understand the point that was made. I won't repeat it since I spent a fair amount of time writing a carefully worded post that isolated a specific difference in their playing styles. I don't see any posts here or anywhere else saying he 'can't handle' something, which has a pejorative meaning. People are trying to be analytical about the differences, the same way they normally are about every other element of DT.

[Mosh]

I think your characterization of what has been said here is pretty ungenerous.

No one called him a lazy bum and to the second part of this sentence, you don't seem to understand the point that was made. I won't repeat it since I spent a fair amount of time writing a carefully worded post that isolated a specific difference in their playing styles. I don't see any posts here or anywhere else saying he 'can't handle' something, which has a pejorative meaning. People are trying to be analytical about the differences, the same way they normally are about every other element of DT.

I think the problem is you're analyzing something that hasn't happened yet. When we get a live recording of Portnoy playing a Mangini drum part, then by all means lets dissect the two approaches. But right now a lot is going off of assumptions.

[hunnus2000]

I think the problem is you're analyzing something that hasn't happened yet. When we get a live recording of Portnoy playing a Mangini drum part, then by all means lets dissect the two approaches. But right now a lot is going off of assumptions.

+1 

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I think the problem is you're analyzing something that hasn't happened yet. When we get a live recording of Portnoy playing a Mangini drum part, then by all means lets dissect the two approaches. But right now a lot is going off of assumptions.

I mean... I think that is also an inaccurate representation of what has been said. We did a quick and dirty analysis of an actual cover MP did of a more technical drum part and we discussed the huge body of work both musicians have spanning 30 years. I am not 'assuming' anything. I am inferring based on a ton of historical information about each player. Furthermore, we've been discussing DT16 on another thread and whether JLB can perform on the next tour. Neither of those two things has happened yet. I don't see why we should be invited to discuss those things at nauseum but the drum-elephant in the room is pointless to discuss until it happens.

[hunnus2000]

So is it possible that Mike is giving a glimpse as to what the setlist could be? I can totally see them playing PA on this tour.

[TAC]

I don't think there's a drum elephant in the room.

Sure we can break down MM vs MP drum parts, but I feel like 10% will like the modifications, 10% won't, and 80% won't give a fuck.

Has anyone broken down MM's performances on any of the MP Era live album material? Has he enhanced it, played faithfully?

[The Letter M]

I don't think there's a drum elephant in the room.

Sure we can break down MM vs MP drum parts, but I feel like 10% will like the modifications, 10% won't, and 80% won't give a fuck.

Has anyone broken down MM's performances on any of the MP Era live album material? Has he enhanced it, played faithfully?

I just did a quick comparison of both of them playing TDOE, and not even all the way through MM playing it, there's the part right after the ragtime section where Portnoy keeps a pretty steady groove playing eighths on his x-hat on the right, whereas Mangini did single-hand sixteenths going between various cymbals, and it sounded WAY too busy trying to sync up with that guitar run. MP supported the groove and is in the pocket whereas Mangini's alteration sounded clustered and almost covered up JP's part.

I'm sure if I spent hours doing an A/B between Portnoy's original parts and Mangini's interpretations, I might find more examples like this, and while I respect Mangini and his skills, part of me feels like he's added stuff as a way to show off those skills, but in this particular instance in TDOE, it just sounded like too much.

-Marc.

[brakkum]

I don't think there's a drum elephant in the room.

Exactly

[devieira73]

I'm not gonna lie, I like a lot almost all enhancements MM did in the live versions, but I think MP always had a better feel for more ballad or slow songs like Peruvian Skies, The Spirit Carries On, Trial of Tears and Finally Free. Or something like 6:00 that sounded a tad wrong with MM. Anyway, it's always good to hear the songs played like they were composed by MP, they sound really naturally great, of course. And some improvisations that MP used to do live were also really cool. I also think there's no elephant in the room in the drum departament, but I suspect that MP will be more focused in the details of the original drum arrangements than ever, including of his own songs. It's not some "ordinary" gig, it's his returning to DT and now we have another phenomenal drummer to draw comparisions with him in the band's history.