Mike Portnoy's DRUMEO Breaking Down DT's New Album: "Parasomnia" NOW

[Mosh]

Add me to the no drum elephant in the room camp. But also:

I mean... I think that is also an inaccurate representation of what has been said. We did a quick and dirty analysis of an actual cover MP did of a more technical drum part and we discussed the huge body of work both musicians have spanning 30 years. I am not 'assuming' anything. I am inferring based on a ton of historical information about each player. Furthermore, we've been discussing DT16 on another thread and whether JLB can perform on the next tour. Neither of those two things has happened yet. I don't see why we should be invited to discuss those things at nauseum but the drum-elephant in the room is pointless to discuss until it happens.

There is no recording of Mike Portnoy playing Mangini era Dream Theater songs. There are recordings of JLB singing Dream Theater songs on the most recent tour. It is not even in the same ballpark.

I just did a quick comparison of both of them playing TDOE, and not even all the way through MM playing it, there's the part right after the ragtime section where Portnoy keeps a pretty steady groove playing eighths on his x-hat on the right, whereas Mangini did single-hand sixteenths going between various cymbals, and it sounded WAY too busy trying to sync up with that guitar run. MP supported the groove and is in the pocket whereas Mangini's alteration sounded clustered and almost covered up JP's part.

I'm sure if I spent hours doing an A/B between Portnoy's original parts and Mangini's interpretations, I might find more examples like this, and while I respect Mangini and his skills, part of me feels like he's added stuff as a way to show off those skills, but in this particular instance in TDOE, it just sounded like too much.

-Marc.

This is the kind of thing I would like to see more of. Maybe I missed it, but I haven't really seen any in depth analysis of how Mangini's playing on MP songs differed from MP's parts. I know MM can do a lot of one hand rolls that MP needed two hands to play, but that's kind of the edge of my knowledge. Generally I felt like MM was pretty faithful to the original parts, but I like reading this kind of analysis of recordings that exist.

[The Letter M]

I just did a quick comparison of both of them playing TDOE, and not even all the way through MM playing it, there's the part right after the ragtime section where Portnoy keeps a pretty steady groove playing eighths on his x-hat on the right, whereas Mangini did single-hand sixteenths going between various cymbals, and it sounded WAY too busy trying to sync up with that guitar run. MP supported the groove and is in the pocket whereas Mangini's alteration sounded clustered and almost covered up JP's part.

I'm sure if I spent hours doing an A/B between Portnoy's original parts and Mangini's interpretations, I might find more examples like this, and while I respect Mangini and his skills, part of me feels like he's added stuff as a way to show off those skills, but in this particular instance in TDOE, it just sounded like too much.

-Marc.

This is the kind of thing I would like to see more of. Maybe I missed it, but I haven't really seen any in depth analysis of how Mangini's playing on MP songs differed from MP's parts. I know MM can do a lot of one hand rolls that MP needed two hands to play, but that's kind of the edge of my knowledge. Generally I felt like MM was pretty faithful to the original parts, but I like reading this kind of analysis of recordings that exist.

I'll be honest, even though I've collected and owned every DT live album in the MM period, I don't think I've watched or listened to those live recordings more than once or twice since owning them, so if there have been more examples like this, I couldn't pinpoint them right away. If I had more time or patience or energy to go through the official live recordings, or even fan recordings from concerts and shows, I'm sure I could find a few more examples but maybe someone else here might be better equipped to handle that. I, too, would love to see more A/B comparisons and analysis regarding MM's interpretations of MP's parts, where he did things with one hand that took MP's two, or actual changes to the parts like I found in TDOE.

-Marc.

[gzarruk]

MM's version of TSF on BTFW is better that the original IMO. There's only one moment (the start of the slow section) where his approach didn't work that well there, but the rest is

[Dream Team]

My earlier comments about "over-playing" were offensive to some, but I'm remembering the Live Scenes doc where Kevin Shirley was trying to reign in MP a little bit and have him lay back and groove more. He said the response was "hey dude, I'm trying to win these drummer magazine polls". The idea that MP or MM don't overplay is silly but my point is: that's a DEFINING characteristic of prog metal or prog in general and I have no problem with it, Portnoy is my favorite drummer!

[TAC]

Live Scenes doc?

[Trav]

I'm just going to leave this here...

" Mike's long list of Awards include 30 Modern Drummer Magazine Reader's Poll Awards including Hall of Fame Inductee in 2004, MVP of the Year in 2010 & 2013, Best Progressive Rock Drummer (for the magazine's record of 13 times), Best Clinician (twice), Best Educational Video/DVD for Liquid Drum Theater, and Best Recorded Performance of the Year (8 times) for Dream Theater's Awake, A Change of Seasons, Falling Into Infinity, Scenes From A Memory, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, Score, Avenged Sevenfold's Nightmare and The Winery Dogs debut. He also holds the distinction of currently being the youngest drummer in Modern Drummer's Hall of Fame."

[Schurftkut]

that's a popularity contest. MP was doing MANY clinics back in the day that grew his brand

[Setlist Scotty]

He also holds the distinction of currently being the youngest drummer in Modern Drummer's Hall of Fame.

This has never been true. Neil Peart was inducted into the HoF at a younger age than MP, which MP later acknowledged.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Add me to the no drum elephant in the room camp. But also:
There is no recording of Mike Portnoy playing Mangini era Dream Theater songs. There are recordings of JLB singing Dream Theater songs on the most recent tour. It is not even in the same ballpark.
This is the kind of thing I would like to see more of. Maybe I missed it, but I haven't really seen any in depth analysis of how Mangini's playing on MP songs differed from MP's parts. I know MM can do a lot of one hand rolls that MP needed two hands to play, but that's kind of the edge of my knowledge. Generally I felt like MM was pretty faithful to the original parts, but I like reading this kind of analysis of recordings that exist.

We are talking about things that are happening in the future and using actual data from the 4035 hours of drum recordings and footage to make inferences about what will likely take place. And on other topics, we are talking about past footage of JLB and discussing how the FUTURE tour could shape up. It's the same thing. No one is forcing you to take part in those discussions but they're obviously prevalent on social media so the fans like talking about them.

If you do not understand the difference between their styles that is OK, but what I have been saying is not just pulling wild unfounded assumptions out of thin air. The Planet X sample was to show how advanced limb independence - something in many DT songs over the last 13 years - is not part of MP's style so he does other things in its place.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind about his favorite drummer. We're just talking about two very different musicians who play what is perhaps the band's least understood instrument and I think it is good to discuss what makes their approaches unique. If we were talking about guitarists or bassists I think probably everyone would understand things more intuitively, but drumming seems to be more of an exception and I think it's good for us to discuss these things in more depth.

[Dream Team]

Certainly on a song like The Shattered Fortress from the DVD I felt MM played it with more power and precision (precision is always a given but MM is a powerhouse on that song).

[ytserush]

I was looking for a place to write this anyway, but since you mention the social media response, I think this is as good a place as any: I recently expanded my presence (unintentionally) on Facebook, and it is STUNNING to me how much negativity there is about and around Mike Portnoy.  I don't know if it's just normal social media ignorance and rudeness (which by "normal", I mean seems to be the normal course of business on social media; what a cesspool) or if there is something more, but most of it doesn't seem all that constructive, and rather comes off as gratuitous and/or petty.  I found a lot of it unfair and unreasonable.

I'll take your word for it. I'll click on the odd link if I think it's important, but other than that I don't engage. I have suspected it's like that based on what I've read in other places.

[ytserush]

Guess it depends on the song.

Depends on the band and the song.

[MinistroRaven]

[Trav]

Nice 

[emtee]

Video unavailable.

[nobloodyname]

Video works, just click 'watch on YouTube'.

[hefdaddy42]

Fun to watch him work.  Just like all great drummers.

[emtee]

Video works, just click 'watch on YouTube'.

D'oh...

Thanks. Awesome as usual!

[Setlist Scotty]

I'm failing to see why this is being posted now throughout FB - I could swear that I saw him discuss and play the outro a couple months ago.

[Lonk]

I'm failing to see why this is being posted now throughout FB - I could swear that I saw him discuss and play the outro a couple months ago.

It was part of the 1-hour long video posted earlier this year. Guess it's Drumeo trying to stretch out the Port not recordings.

[MinistroRaven]

Tomorrow Drumeo will release 6:00 

[Progmaniac1988]

Tomorrow Drumeo will release 6:00

Oh??? I'll definitely be looking for that. Definitely a personal fav Portnoy performance.

[obro]

Was wondering when and if it was coming out after the teaser last christmas.
Awesome song 

[nick_z]

Brilliant video. Sounds SO good! Cool tidbit at the beginning with the reference to Kevin Moore's demo of the song and the drum loop.

There's so much neat stuff going on with MP's drumming on Awake. It's a great combo of technical and memorable.

[brakkum]

I agree with the top comment

i hope Drumeo held mike captive for a month and keeps dropping all his DT songs for the next 5 years

[nobloodyname]

Link for you good folk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvXebl_F1o4

[gborland]

Brilliant. 

[Trav]

That was awesome. I couldn't imagine the Mike of 15-20 years ago giving Kevin any credit. Kind of shows where he is now. I love it.

[Zydar]

Awesome as always. I didn't know it was all the way back in November 2002 when he'd last played it with DT. 

[HOF]

Still my favorite DT song.

[Progmaniac1988]

That was awesome. I couldn't imagine the Mike of 15-20 years ago giving Kevin any credit. Kind of shows where he is now. I love it.

Yeah Mike seems to have really humbled himself. It's great. I think working with so many bands and not being in that leader role all the time really made a difference on him.

[Mebert78]

Yeah Mike seems to have really humbled himself. It's great. I think working with so many bands and not being in that leader role all the time really made a difference on him.

I'm curious if it was known that "6:00" was a song that Kevin brought in and had entirely demoed himself, albeit in a "primitive form," as Portnoy said.  I know Kevin got writing credit for "Space-Dye Vest," but I believe "6:00" was list as being written by "Dream Theater" with lyrics by Kevin.  Kinda cool to hear that "6:00" was mostly Kevin's song, which means he was responsible for both the opening and closing tracks on Awake.

[brakkum]

I'm curious if it was known that "6:00" was a song that Kevin brought in and had entirely demoed himself, albeit in a "primitive form," as Portnoy said.  I know Kevin got writing credit for "Space-Dye Vest," but I believe "6:00" was list as being written by "Dream Theater" with lyrics by Kevin.  Kinda cool to hear that "6:00" was mostly Kevin's song, which means he was responsible for both the opening and closing tracks on Awake.

I believe there's a demo with just him and Myung, I've seen it on YouTube I think. Unless that's fake, but sounding very legit to me.

[gzarruk]

I believe there's a demo with just him and Myung, I've seen it on YouTube I think. Unless that's fake, but sounding very legit to me.

[MoraWintersoul]

I couldn't imagine the Mike of 15-20 years ago giving Kevin any credit.

I can imagine him giving Kevin credit but then launching into a "which is why, I was so terribly sad and couldn't understand why he left the band in the middle of the recording sessions, because we accommodated his changing tastes in music and *transition into a two minute monologue about how he had a bad time working with Kevin again later*". Probably not in an official interview on another channel, but definitely in something he was recording or writing to release as a part of a DT product, like liner notes or drum commentary! So yeah, he has come a looooooong way. Props to him.