DT should now reconnect with Kevin Moore, but not as a keyboardist...

[goo-goo]

Would love for KM to come in as a lyricist /writer only. But it's a long shot. He hasn't updated his Patreon in over a year or more (I'm a subscriber) and not sure if he will ever write anymore Chroma Key or OSI.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

does subscribing to his patreon get you free therapy sessions?

[Trav]

does subscribing to his patreon get you free therapy sessions?

You get a free "space-dye vest".

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

does subscribing to his patreon get you free therapy sessions?

You get a free "space-dye vest".

[bosk1]

Would love for KM to come in as a lyricist /writer only.

Never was a fan of his lyrics, and I can only speculate whether anything he ever contributed musically (outside of SDV) would appeal to me.  But even if someone could somehow prove to me that the things I like best about songs from the first three albums came from him, I would still see no reason why he should ever be involved in writing anything for DT again, as there's nothing at all about their post-KM writing that needs any improvement.  And if there was, I'm not aware of anything that gives me any confidence whatsoever that he would be a likely solution.  Honestly, wanting him to have any affiliation with DT in the future is a head scratcher for me.

[Peter Mc]

I'm fairly sure that Kevin Moore has been invited back before, not permanently but for one off shows, maybe the WDADU show?  He's never shown any interest and refused to even take part in the official band biography.  He clearly wants nothing to do with them.

Unlike Bosk, I can see the fascination people have with him coming back.  For many that I&W/Awake period remains the classic period and he did give a bit of a different less virtuosic (at times) flavour to the band rather than the crazy technical playing of Rudess.  Rudess is undoubtedly the more accomplished player but I think occasionally people would like something more melodic from him in solos rather than a million notes per second and crazy prog stuff.  That's not to say Rudess hasn't been brilliant, he has, he's just a bit different and some will always prefer one over the other.  It's a toss of a coin for me who I'd prefer.

Kevin Moore also seemed to be much more of an influence in the songwriting than Rudess which also gave the band a different voice at times.  I still think it was Petrucci as the biggest creative force but Kevin Moore seemed to be a big influence too.  Rudess similarly is probably the second creative force in modern DT but I think it is much more the Petrucci show now with him in a distant second place.

I'm happy with either of them to be honest as long as it's not Sherinian.  There doesn't appear to be anything to suggest Kevin Moore would ever entertain returning though and, unless Rudess wanted to leave, I don't think he'd ever be asked to go as just as many people, if not more, consider the Rudess lineup as the the classic lineup.

[wolfking]

Would love for KM to come in as a lyricist /writer only.

Never was a fan of his lyrics, and I can only speculate whether anything he ever contributed musically (outside of SDV) would appeal to me.  But even if someone could somehow prove to me that the things I like best about songs from the first three albums came from him, I would still see no reason why he should ever be involved in writing anything for DT again, as there's nothing at all about their post-KM writing that needs any improvement.  And if there was, I'm not aware of anything that gives me any confidence whatsoever that he would be a likely solution.  Honestly, wanting him to have any affiliation with DT in the future is a head scratcher for me.

I'm with bosk here.  KM was great, but I personally also have never really understood the weight people hold with him and his contributions to the band in the early stages.  I always thought just it was because he was part of the classic I&W/A era.

[Trav]

From a lyrical standpoint Kevin is kind of an enigma to me. On WDADU his two tracks are terrible. Just a word salad that Charlie has to fight to get through. On Awake, they come across  bitter and cold.  On Images however, they're perfect. Pull Me Under, Surrounded and Wait for Sleep have lyrics that are beautiful, full of imagery yet leave room for the imagination and interpretation.

Musically, I don't know how to explain it. You get it or you don't.

[bosk1]

I had forgotten that those lyrics on I&W were his.  Yeah, I have to agree with your assessment on all of those mentioned.

Musically, I don't know how to explain it. You get it or you don't.

I just don't know what to "get" though, because I have no idea what parts of any of the music on the first three albums he actually wrote.

[Trav]

I had forgotten that those lyrics on I&W were his.  Yeah, I have to agree with your assessment on all of those mentioned.

Musically, I don't know how to explain it. You get it or you don't.

I just don't know what to "get" though, because I have no idea what parts of any of the music on the first three albums he actually wrote.

I guess I just focus on the keyboard driven moments.

[bosk1]

I mean, sure, but that doesn't tell us whether he wrote them.  I can say that for most of the keyboard parts of Awake, I love a lot of those songs despite the keyboards, not because of them.

[Trav]

Delete. Screw it.

[goo-goo]

Would love for KM to come in as a lyricist /writer only.

Never was a fan of his lyrics, and I can only speculate whether anything he ever contributed musically (outside of SDV) would appeal to me.  But even if someone could somehow prove to me that the things I like best about songs from the first three albums came from him, I would still see no reason why he should ever be involved in writing anything for DT again, as there's nothing at all about their post-KM writing that needs any improvement.  And if there was, I'm not aware of anything that gives me any confidence whatsoever that he would be a likely solution.  Honestly, wanting him to have any affiliation with DT in the future is a head scratcher for me.

Have you listened to the OSI and Chroma Key albums? I know both bands are a departure from Dream Theater musically, but lyrically, they have some neat stuff.

[bosk1]

No, I never have.

[TAC]

OSI is unlistenable, honestly.

[Trav]

OSI is unlistenable, honestly.

If that isn't  a glaring endorsement, I don't know what is!

[gzarruk]

OSI is unlistenable, honestly.

There's some interesting music there, but I agree. I find Kevin's vocals way too samey and boring throughout for the songs to have any lasting impact on me.

[bosk1]

. I was gonna say, if TAC hates the music that much, it must be pretty good.

[TAC]

. I was gonna say, if TAC hates the music that much, it must be pretty good.

See, I do have special powers!

[KevShmev]

Moore wrote all of Space Dye Vest.  He is credited that way, which is plain as day for anyone to see.

[TAC]

Moore wrote all of Space Dye Vest.  He is credited that way, which is plain as day for anyone to see.

Top 5 or 10 DT song right there!

[Trav]

Moore wrote all of Space Dye Vest.  He is credited that way, which is plain as day for anyone to see.

And Wait for Sleep, which is ridiculously underrated.

[KevShmev]

Moore wrote all of Space Dye Vest.  He is credited that way, which is plain as day for anyone to see.

And Wait for Sleep, which is ridiculously underrated.

Good call. I always forget that he wrote that one by himself as well.   

[bosk1]

I did mention SDV. I didn't remember WFS being credited solely to him. I thought everything on the album was credited to the while band.

[RaiseTheKnife]

ASCAP has Wait For Sleep credited to Moore, Petrucci, Myung and Portnoy, so your first recollection was (mostly) correct.

[wolfking]

There's nothing special about OSI at all.

[ReaPsTA]

I would never happen, but it would be cool if KM came back to do a vocal feature, or some guest production (keyboards or more overall)

[HOF]

The first OSI album was great. I prefer it over anything DT has done since. The second was less great but had some moments.

I'd be interested in a collaboration between KM and the DT guys, but I wouldn't expect it to sound much like current DT. Which could be cool but probably wouldn't interest most DT fans (or DT themselves probably, just like MP got turned off by KM editing his drum parts on OSI).

I don't know how much of I&W and Awake you can attribute to KM, but I was listening to Dead Air for Radios the other night and in my mind trying to imagine those songs as DT songs from that era, and I could see how they could have been reshaped a little with the other guys' contributions. Maybe if DT had gone down a more industrial path after awake that would have worked.

[ReaPsTA]

The story is that, from a songwriting perspective, KM only really contributed to 6:00, Voices, Lie, and Space Dye Vest.

But even on Awake, the sound design of the keyboards is something else, and based on KM's later work, you can see how big a hand he had in how that album sounds.

[MoraWintersoul]

It all comes down to whether you've listened to his later stuff or not. If you have, you can pick out his artistic signature in earlier DT stuff, and sometimes miss it.

He hasn't been interested in playing his old stuff with DT when he was asked twice before but it would be interesting if he did something small with them when the band gets to wind down. He probably wouldn't, even if it was doing something new and interesting, as opposed to playing an old song in the 40th anniversary show, but you can't deny it would be cool no matter how much some people like to minimize his role in the band as a knee-jerk reaction to all those "Kevin was the DREAM in DREAM THEATER" cultists just because it's a reaction to something wrong doesn't make it right.

To take this out of Kevin-realm for a second: there's usually a dichotomy in prog fans where they either still really love and follow Dream Theater-type prog or PTree-type prog. Typically they'll like both bands during their prime but they'll just prefer one over the other. I've landed over the years more on the Dream Theater-side, or rather, I prefer John Petrucci, with all his flaws, to Steven Wilson and all of his  and yet I can't deny it would be cool to see Steven Wilson do something with DT, even though it's not in the cards. The same goes for Kevin and DT, no matter which one you prefer or prefer to follow, no matter if you think Dream Theater needs Kevin or Kevin needed Dream Theater, it would be something cool and different for both parties.

[ReaPsTA]

I kind of feel you on the Steven Wilson thing. Starting with The Incident I lost interest in his stuff. Haven't even listened to the new Porcupine Tree.

KM had a similar turn toward experimental and depressive music, but I like it way more. Some of it I'm sure is just personal preference, but Wilson's stuff always felt like he was so precious about it, and it became too much. KM's electronic career more just asserts what it is and you like it or you don't.

[gzarruk]

I kind of feel you on the Steven Wilson thing. Starting with The Incident I lost interest in his stuff. Haven't even listened to the new Porcupine Tree.

KM had a similar turn toward experimental and depressive music, but I like it way more. Some of it I'm sure is just personal preference, but Wilson's stuff always felt like he was so precious about it, and it became too much. KM's electronic career more just asserts what it is and you like it or you don't.

I'm glad someone else said it, because I've been referring to PT and The Pineapple Thief style of music as "depressive metal" instead of progressive metal for years now

That is a shame because I absolutely love Gavin Harrison as a drummer, but I just can't get into any of the bands he plays with.

[ReaPsTA]

Fear of a Blank Planet is still a vibe though. And it turned out to be prophecy

[goo-goo]

. I was gonna say, if TAC hates the music that much, it must be pretty good.

Check out Chroma Key Dead Air Force Radio. Absolutely love this album. It's very chill though and has Mark Zonder on drums (ex-Fates Warning).

[Trav]

Fear of a Blank Planet is still a vibe though. And it turned out to be prophecy

This is absolutely true.

I felt most of Deadwing was a little more lively than the average Porcupine Tree. A little more rockin'. That's probably my favorite PT record.