DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[DT05]

At some point, this opinion of yours starts becoming prejudiced, because as far as we know, you haven't taken a good enough listen to any of the Mangini era songs, so your opinion might not be based on experience

I heard all five Mangini albums within the week that each one came out, as a fan of this band for nearly 20 years. I'm sorry that you're this unable to see somebody have an opinion against Mangini but I shouldn't be surprised, there was a mass exodus of this band's oldest fans from places like this (rightly so) when Portnoy left the band, the remnant left behind are those with lower standards such as yourself. Quite frankly I don't think you even understand what Dream Theater fans pre-2011 are about. That's fine! But Mangini era is the absolute bottom of the barrel, even WDADU looks better in the wake of all of that.

[Orbert]

What is it about the last five albums that you think is so horrible?  For most people, the quality of the music and playing is on the same level as before.  You keep saying it's so bad, but never say why.

[TAC]

I heard all five Mangini albums within the week that each one came out, as a fan of this band for nearly 20 years. I'm sorry that you're this unable to see somebody have an opinion against Mangini but I shouldn't be surprised, there was a mass exodus of this band's oldest fans from places like this (rightly so) when Portnoy left the band, the remnant left behind are those with lower standards such as yourself. Quite frankly I don't think you even understand what Dream Theater fans pre-2011 are about. That's fine! But Mangini era is the absolute bottom of the barrel, even WDADU looks better in the wake of all of that.

OK, I'm as old of a fan of the band as there is here, both in terms of age, and of following the band.

So, please tell me, what exactly are Dream Theater fans pre-2011 all about?

And the Mangini Era is bottom of the barrel? I'll ask you again, what are the hallmarks of the MP Era's music and how does it differ to the MM Era?

I think you're overstating this "mass exodus", but I'd chalk up any defections to a couple of things. MP kept people engaged. JP did not. Changing setlists gave us something to talk about. Static setlists do not. Admittedly, there was less to talk about in the post MP Era, but that had nothing to do with the music. It had to more to do with the "coldness" and "business" approach of the band. It was just less fun to follow. But again, that's not a reflection of the music.

Also in the last 15 years, there's been a huge explosion of choices that weren't there pre-2010. It's only natural some people would've moved on. Maybe they grew up and had other responsibilities.

I can totally understand someone's interest being reignited with MP's return. But what you're posting....it comes off like a burner account or something.

[Setlist Scotty]

OK, I'm as old of a fan of the band as there is here, both in terms of age, and of following the band.

So, please tell me, what exactly are Dream Theater fans pre-2011 all about?

And the Mangini Era is bottom of the barrel? I'll ask you again, what are the hallmarks of the MP Era's music and how does it differ to the MM Era?

I think you're overstating this "mass exodus", but I'd chalk up any defections to a couple of things. MP kept people engaged. JP did not. Changing setlists gave us something to talk about. Static setlists do not. Admittedly, there was less to talk about in the post MP Era, but that had nothing to do with the music. It had to more to do with the "coldness" and "business" approach of the band. It was just less fun to follow. But again, that's not a reflection of the music.

Also in the last 15 years, there's been a huge explosion of choices that weren't there pre-2010. It's only natural some people would've moved on. Maybe they grew up and had other responsibilities.

I can totally understand someone's interest being reignited with MP's return. But what you're posting....it comes off like a burner account or something.

Well said Tim and I agree with all of it. As another "old school" fan who has been around since 1989, I'm looking forward to DT05 educating me about the differences in the eras that made the MM-era extremely subpar by comparison to the MP-era in terms of actual musical content.

[Jamesman42]

DT05 is such an obvious troll, don't feed it.

[hefdaddy42]

I heard all five Mangini albums within the week that each one came out, as a fan of this band for nearly 20 years. I'm sorry that you're this unable to see somebody have an opinion against Mangini but I shouldn't be surprised, there was a mass exodus of this band's oldest fans from places like this (rightly so) when Portnoy left the band, the remnant left behind are those with lower standards such as yourself. Quite frankly I don't think you even understand what Dream Theater fans pre-2011 are about. That's fine! But Mangini era is the absolute bottom of the barrel, even WDADU looks better in the wake of all of that.

I'm a fan since 1992, and opinions are opinions, but you're full of shit. 

[efx]

This style of posting from him reminds me of the old days of the DT boards (not this place) and not in a good way. Dislike the MM albums all you want but don't try and speak for any part of the community. Like Hef I'm fan since 1992 and I'm in agreement with him.

[Max Kuehnau]

tells us more about the person than about MM (and his five albums)

[Max Kuehnau]

I'm a fan since 1992, and opinions are opinions, but you're full of shit.

succinct 

[KevShmev]

I'm a fan since 1992, and opinions are opinions, but you're full of shit.

Yep.  Obvious troll is obvious.

[Herrick]

Yup, the ears knew right away!


And how was I not on that list?? I was trading boots all over the place and no one ever mentioned it to me.

I didn't like Falling Into Infinity (and still don't) when I first heard it in 2001. I didn't know any Dream Theater fans or how the album was perceived by them.

[Max Kuehnau]

I didn't like Falling Into Infinity (and still don't) when I first heard it in 2001. I didn't know any Dream Theater fans or how the album was perceived by them.

it clearly was divisive (this clearly was what I had noticed at the time)

[TAC]

I didn't like Falling Into Infinity (and still don't) when I first heard it in 2001. I didn't know any Dream Theater fans or how the album was perceived by them.

I got the album as soon as it came out.

I knew after New Millenium, which my very first impression was that it was a failed attempt to recapture a Metropolis vibe, and You not Me, that we were in trouble. After two songs, my thought was..."well, that was quick.." meaning that DT was jumping the shark already.


It became, and still is, a three song EP (Lines In The Sand, Peruvian Skies, and Trial Of Tears).

[XJDenton]

Breaking all illusions by itself is better than anything on the last 3 MP albums IMO.

[XJDenton]

I heard all five Mangini albums within the week that each one came out, as a fan of this band for nearly 20 years. I'm sorry that you're this unable to see somebody have an opinion against Mangini but I shouldn't be surprised, there was a mass exodus of this band's oldest fans from places like this (rightly so) when Portnoy left the band, the remnant left behind are those with lower standards such as yourself. Quite frankly I don't think you even understand what Dream Theater fans pre-2011 are about. That's fine! But Mangini era is the absolute bottom of the barrel, even WDADU looks better in the wake of all of that.

Gonna say this once: Continue arguing belligerently and condescendingly like this and you will find yourself taking a break. Last warning.

[Max Kuehnau]

Breaking all illusions by itself is better than anything on the last 3 MP albums IMO.

I have to agree (and that's far from the only MM era piece of that distinction IMHO)

[Herrick]

I'd like to hear what "Dream Theater fans pre-2011 are about".

[Jamesman42]

Breaking all illusions by itself is better than anything on the last 3 MP albums IMO.

Octavarium and The Count of Tuscany, whatchu mean

[hunnus2000]

Octavarium and The Count of Tuscany, whatchu mean

How about The Best of Times? 

[XJDenton]

Octavarium and The Count of Tuscany, whatchu mean

They have excellent moments, but the second section of Tuscany is middling, and octavarium is about 8 minutes too long.

[hefdaddy42]

Octavarium and The Count of Tuscany, whatchu mean

100% it's better than TCOT.

[Jamesman42]

100% it's better than TCOT.

No.

[Jamesman42]

How about The Best of Times? 

Yes, those two songs do have the best of times

[hunnus2000]

Yes, those two songs do have the best of times

Hard to argue that. 

[brakkum]

100% it's better than TCOT.

100% but better than Octavarium is hard for me to swallow.

[TAC]

How about The Best of Times? 

Hell yes. I ranked it at #14 on my DT Top 100.

[TAC]

Breaking all illusions by itself is better than anything on the last 3 MP albums IMO.

In my DT Top 100 I had..

2. 8V
6. TCOT
9. BAI

[CraftyCaleb2483]

2. 8V

Octavarium second?! I know it's absolutely amazing, but I would normally rank it around 12th, there's just so much other even better songs in my opinion. I'm curious, if you ranked 8V second, then which ranked first for you?

[Jamesman42]

I also ranked it second, right behind Metropolis Pt. 1. 

[TAC]

Octavarium second?! I know it's absolutely amazing, but I would normally rank it around 12th, there's just so much other even better songs in my opinion. I'm curious, if you ranked 8V second, then which ranked first for you?

My Top 15 looked like this when we did the Top 100 Countdown a couple of years ago..

15    Fatal Tragedy
14    The Best of Times
13    Endless Sacrifice
12    Metropolis, Pt. 1
11    Lost Not Forgotten
10    Take the Time
9    Breaking All Illusions
8    Lines In the Sand
7    Disappear
6    The Count of  Tuscany
5    Space-Dye Vest
4    The Killing Hand
3    Scarred
2    Octavarium
1    Learning To Live

[lovethedrake]

Long time reader and occasional poster here.....

I disagree with those that say the songwriting is the same with without Portnoy.   Portnoy has the biggest personality in the band and that definitely shines through in the music.

The Mangini era is sort of generic Dream Theater aside from the The Astonoshing.

With that said, the last few Portnoy era albums didn't work because they were going for things that were simply not the right fit for the band.

My hope is that Portnoy brings much needed personality and risk taking but they keep it proggy and don't try to make Labrie into James Hetfield.

This is also not a ripping on Mangini post either... I really like D/T and AVFTTOTW and think his playing was killer but both albums are definitely safe and sort of "generic DT" type efforts IMO. 

I love the contribution Mangini made and think it was the right time for the band to shake things up.    At the same time, I'm ecstatic to have Portnoy back after a long hiatus and I hope they can recapture some of that 90's magic.

[Orbert]

Well said.  I agree with most of it.

The last few albums before MP left, they were losing my interest, but I could never tell if that's because my tastes had changed, or I'd just grown a bit tired of them, or DT's style had changed, or (most likely) a combination of things.  MM did shake things up a bit, maybe give them a little shot in the arm.  Some people were fine with the changes, even embraced them, others not so much.

I too am looking forward to what MP brings with him.  I'd really like to hear him try some new things, but I guess not get too "out there".  I'm trying to keep my mind open, and also not get my hopes up too much.  It's a tough balance.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

They have excellent moments, but the second section of Tuscany is middling, and octavarium is about 8 minutes too long.

This is probably exactly how I feel about those 2 songs.

[pg1067]

I heard all five Mangini albums within the week that each one came out, as a fan of this band for nearly 20 years. I'm sorry that you're this unable to see somebody have an opinion against Mangini but I shouldn't be surprised, there was a mass exodus of this band's oldest fans from places like this (rightly so) when Portnoy left the band, the remnant left behind are those with lower standards such as yourself. Quite frankly I don't think you even understand what Dream Theater fans pre-2011 are about. That's fine! But Mangini era is the absolute bottom of the barrel, even WDADU looks better in the wake of all of that.

Everyone's got opinions, but stating opinions as though they're unassailable facts is colossally obnoxious.  Stating that anyone whose opinion differs from yours has "lower standards" is narcissistically ignorant.

I've been a fan of the band for more than a decade longer than you, so I'm pretty sure that my "understand[ing] [of] what Dream Theater fans pre-2011 are about" is at least as good as, if not better than, yours.  I can assure you that there was no "mass exodus of this band's oldest fans from places like this . . . when Portnoy left the band."  THAT is a matter of fact, and it's something about which you're just plain wrong (and I'm quite confident you have absolutely no evidence of this and just expect those of us who know better than you to take your word for it).

By the way, in my opinion, no MM-era album is better than 7th, and 3 of my bottom 5 albums are from the era.  However, if someone enjoys those albums better than my favorite albums, more power to them.  It's just not necessary to belittle people for having different opinions about music.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Long time reader and occasional poster here.....

I disagree with those that say the songwriting is the same with without Portnoy.  Portnoy has the biggest personality in the band and that definitely shines through in the music.

The Mangini era is sort of generic Dream Theater aside from the The Astonoshing.

With that said, the last few Portnoy era albums didn't work because they were going for things that were simply not the right fit for the band.

My hope is that Portnoy brings much needed personality and risk taking but they keep it proggy and don't try to make Labrie into James Hetfield.

This is also not a ripping on Mangini post either... I really like D/T and AVFTTOTW and think his playing was killer but both albums are definitely safe and sort of "generic DT" type efforts IMO. 

I love the contribution Mangini made and think it was the right time for the band to shake things up.    At the same time, I'm ecstatic to have Portnoy back after a long hiatus and I hope they can recapture some of that 90's magic.

If the songwriting is not the same without MP then how is it 'generic' DT?

The MM era albums have their own identity that is unique. So, I agree it is not the same as with MP (although I mean it differently) but why is it generic? They offer something that was not there before.