DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[ReaperKK]

Agreed but I think a lot of it probably has to do with them rushing the announcement to get in front of a leak. That picture was probably slapped together in an hour. I'm sure once they're ready to show off the new old lineup they will do lots of press together and take cool photos etc.

Yeah, I believe MP is still on the other side of the world right now with The Winery Dogs. The timing doesn't make sense.

It's like Hugh Syme put together the press release photo.

No because there's no watermark on MP's photo.

woah woah woah, lets not insult the press photo artist. It's far better than anything Hugh has done in the past 2 decades

[Ayeegit]

Not knowing the exact details, I think this is on the right track,  I think this happened months ago at the very least and likely could have been started even before that.  Possible signposts for me are that Mike cleared most of his calendar, Neal Morse initially saying he was taking a year off and the "blow up" near the end of the Transatlantic Tour. I also think Mike Mangini knew this for a lot longer than we think. (also I haven't read/heard/seen too many recent interviews with him in the last year.)

The timing may have also been a favor to Mike who would have had to keep lying about it in the buzz up to his solo album release and beyond.

First I've heard about problems on the last Transatlantic tour - but I didn't really follow it much to be honest, so maybe I just missed the story - can you elaborate on the "blow up"?

[porcacultor]

I love the ambiguity of the "producer" role. It changes so much between musical genres and even within them.

There's no real law about how much a producer is responsible for the creative direction of an album. Sometimes the producer is there to drive the making of the album through and "glue" things together (perhaps by improving/adding details to arrangements and supervising any of the mixing or mastering stages), and sometimes they're actually the fire under the artists' bottom -- having a songwriter's say on how the compositions go (perhaps even to the level of "how much each section is played", or in what order, or even the notes in the melodies proper).

Take the two latest Imperial Triumphant albums, where Trey Spruance from Mr. Bungle is credited as the producer. I've got an interview in the can with him about it, but to summarize, he didn't have anything to do with the songwriting -- all the sections and melodies arrived at his desk in a finished state and his main concern was adding instrumentation and effects (bas-relief, as he called it) and later mastering the whole thing according to his vision of how the final product should sound like.

Rick Rubin's productions with, say, Metallica or Slipknot (or any other bands, I'm just going from memory) are examples of the latter approach, where the ideas weren't exactly finished (even if they were demoed beforehand) and he'd guide the group creatively to arrive at the final tracks. (as far as I know, the Metallica guys were cool with it and some guys in Slipknot were too, whereas Corey Taylor was very unhappy with the process).

Anything is possible, but from what we've known of this band over the years, I do not see them feeling the need for an outside producer on either of those fronts. Any of those roles I mentioned are pretty much JP's and MP's bread and butter. I'm not inside their heads, but I feel this new album is as momentous to them as it is to the fans (if not more so) and, given that the albums in the Mangini era were at the very least VERY competent, they may feel like they have something to prove. Something like "we have to blow people away with this new album, because the others were already great".

I don't see an outside producer fitting this situation any more than Phil Towle coming in as band therapist.

Of course, I could be dead wrong and this is exactly what they're angling for (calling someone from outside the band to make sure the new album is tight and has a solid vision), but it seems ludicrous to imagine it'd be someone like Steven Wilson or anyone who'd want to butt heads with them in the studio. This isn't their first rodeo 

Just a little reflection on the outside producer thing and why I don't really see it happening (and again, I might be wrong!).

[RaiseTheKnife]

Songs I hope Portnoy pushes for the next setlist:

Wither
Raw Dog
You OR Me

Songs I hope Portnoy doesn't champion for an upcoming setlist:

Beyond This Life
A Nightmare to Remember
Just Let Me Breathe

I have no idea if Portnoy or the band have any preference (or disdain) for any of the above.  I'm just curious if there are certain songs that Portnoy would urge be added to the next tour.  What are your guesses?

[jammindude]

Songs I hope Portnoy pushes for the next setlist:

Wither
Raw Dog
You OR Me

Songs I hope Portnoy doesn't champion for an upcoming setlist:

Beyond This Life
A Nightmare to Remember
Just Let Me Breathe

I have no idea if Portnoy or the band have any preference (or disdain) for any of the above.  I'm just curious if there are certain songs that Portnoy would urge be added to the next tour.  What are your guesses?

Wow! Completely reverse that for me.

In fact, if they DON'T play Beyond This Life (the BEST song from SFAM) I'm going to profoundly upset.

[gzarruk]

Both IAW and SFAM got a lot of playtime lately, so I'm hoping they consider that when crafting their set. TSCO and AIA have been played a lot in recent years too.

[Schurftkut]

after watching the patreon video JR posted, i believe Home is almost certain to be coming back into the setlist. Disappear as well!
Probably not going to play beyond this life because of the lenght, but will throw in some improv in the middle of a song. :-)

[MirrorMask]

Songs I hope Portnoy pushes for the next setlist:

Wither
Raw Dog
You OR Me

Songs I hope Portnoy doesn't champion for an upcoming setlist:

Beyond This Life
A Nightmare to Remember
Just Let Me Breathe

I have no idea if Portnoy or the band have any preference (or disdain) for any of the above.  I'm just curious if there are certain songs that Portnoy would urge be added to the next tour.  What are your guesses?

Yes for Wither.

Absolutely not Raw Dog, nobody knows it anyway.

And nobody knows You Or Me either, and You Not Me has a better chorus anyway. If the point was to make a song more "commercial", You Not Me serves that purpouse.

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

Actually I'd like to see Just Let Me Breath live again, such a fun song. While we're on the subject I wish they play songs like

Misunderstood
Erotomania
Voices (if James can take it)
Only a Matter of Time
I Walk Beside You
Octavarium (that's so long overdue)
Stream of Consciousness

and I can't wait what stylistic changes they will make in the live presentation..MP was all about that!

[jammindude]

Mike just posted the improv section of BTL from Budakon saying he's looking forward to doing this some more. So that sounds promising. Granted, they might do it during a different song instead, but BTL is such a perfect song for it.

[Mosh]

Don't Look Past Me was one of the most memorable and exciting moments of a Dream Theater concert for me. It was also the first time at a DT show I felt like I was the only one in the audience who knew the song. I remember feeling like all the energy got sucked out of the room immediately when they played it, even though I was freaking out. I do think their hesitance to revisit that material comes down to a few factors. It's true that their catalog has gotten pretty huge - consistently releasing an album every 2-3 years will do that I suppose. But I also think the fanbase has gotten more casual over the last decade. They got some increased exposure when they were on RoadRunner and, again, their catalog is so big that there are going to be more people in the audience who aren't familiar with all of it. However, I also agree that this sort of thing is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The songs they play live frequently are naturally going to be more familiar to the audience.

I would really like to see them give Scenes and I&W a break, I could probably do without hearing most of the songs off I&W again after they played it in full a few years ago. Scenes has just been really well represented in the setlists in general and there aren't really any songs off that album that I am really clamoring for. But the band seems to love it and I get the impression that MP in particular will really want to play a lot of it.

I think they've done an amazing job for the most part with their setlists since MP left though. They really got through a big chunk of the back catalog with Mangini and there were quite a few songs that I never expected to be played live again (or for the first time in a couple cases). I kinda hope that they don't do too much of a fresh start in terms of repeating some of the recent rarities from the Mangini era since there are still quite a few songs that weren't played with Mangini that I would really like to hear. ANYTHING besides The Great Debate off disc 1 of SDOIT would be fantastic. A Mind Beside Itself would be cool, or maybe just Erotomania since Voices might be a stretch for James. I even enjoy the odd WDADU song. Octavarium seems long overdue and I kinda expected them to do it eventually while Mangini was in the band anyway. I also really hope that the unplayed songs from the Mangini era eventually see the light of day.

I don't get the fascination with Raw Dog though. I never even really counted it as a part of the core catalog. It's more in the category of b-sides/demos like You Or Me or Eve where there's an outside chance of them playing it but it's pretty low.

[The Letter M]

Regarding MP and setlists - do you think he'll consider all the pre-Mangini songs they've played live in the past 13 years when constructing the next tour's setlists? He's gone to the past couple tours so it's not like he doesn't know what they played.

Will he also consider DT songs HE has played with other groups in the past 13 years, and maybe avoid them, or perhaps bring them back? Of course this includes his Shattered Fortress shows, and those PSMS shows where they did some DT music as well.

Either way, it'll be neat to see how he handles the setlists, which is one of the things I'm looking forward to most given his past involvement with them.

-Marc.

[MirrorMask]

Mike just posted the improv section of BTL from Budakon saying he's looking forward to doing this some more. So that sounds promising. Granted, they might do it during a different song instead, but BTL is such a perfect song for it.

Full context, it was for Jordan's birthday:

"HAPPY BIRTHDAY Jordan Rudess!!! To celebrate his big day today, I'm sharing the same clip he posted yesterday...this is from the Live At Budokan DVD and was always a fun moment in the show when we would jam with each other and improvise each night. I look forward to having more magical moments like this once again being back home in DT as I can't wait to get back on stage with the guys! But in the meantime, Happy Birthday Jordan!"

I took it as a more general thing, that he's looking forward to play with Jordan again and doing cool shit in general terms, but of course we can't rule out that he's gonna bring some improv jams in the setlist.

[ReaPsTA]

Yeah, the press release was nice overall, but if you had given to someone the assignment "Pretend MP is back in Dream Theater and write some statements about it from the guys", someone would have come pretty close to the actual press release.

Then it accomplished exactly what it was supposed to.

[jammindude]

I have to say that I am genuinely pleasantly surprised by this post.

From JLB's Facebook page just 15 minutes ago:

Wow, what can I say, I've been pretty silent and overwhelmed with the reaction... Thank you so much for the incredible response to the reunion of Dream Theater's classic line up. We are beyond grateful and excited to begin the next chapter with a new album and world tour.
Gonna be one hell of ride for all.
Welcome home, my friend. Mike Portnoy

[crystalstars17]

Songs I hope Portnoy pushes for the next setlist:

Wither

Yes for Wither.

Third!

[The Letter M]

I have to say that I am genuinely pleasantly surprised by this post.

From JLB's Facebook page just 15 minutes ago:

Wow, what can I say, I've been pretty silent and overwhelmed with the reaction... Thank you so much for the incredible response to the reunion of Dream Theater's classic line up. We are beyond grateful and excited to begin the next chapter with a new album and world tour.
Gonna be one hell of ride for all.
Welcome home, my friend. Mike Portnoy

Time heals, I suppose? I guess they (James and Mike) both realized over the past thirteen years that it was silly for them to have their spat about stuff and that life was too short and special to not be friends again. I hope everything between them will be lovely and solid from here on out and we don't see or hear anything resembling Mike's displeasure with James or vice versa in the future. I'd really like to see them continue to get along!

-Marc.

[DragonAttack]

Less than an hour ago on James' Fbook page:   https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=928121512003263&id=100044162677648

"Wow, what can I say, I've been pretty silent and overwhelmed with the reaction... Thank you so much for the incredible response to the reunion of Dream Theater's classic line up. We are beyond grateful and excited to begin the next chapter with a new album and world tour.
Gonna be one hell of ride for all.
Welcome home, my friend. Mike Portnoy"

[MirrorMask]

That's very great to see and read!!!

Jt was one of my "conditions" for not being bitter about an eventual return of MP to the band - that he and James sincerely patched things up, first and foremost for themselves, being friends and band mates for so long. I would rather have James and Mike friends again without MP returning, than them begrudgingly agreeing to be in the same band while in reality they have a Blackmore / Gillian relationship (or lack of).

[jammindude]

Less than an hour ago on James' Fbook page:   https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=928121512003263&id=100044162677648

"Wow, what can I say, I've been pretty silent and overwhelmed with the reaction... Thank you so much for the incredible response to the reunion of Dream Theater's classic line up. We are beyond grateful and excited to begin the next chapter with a new album and world tour.
Gonna be one hell of ride for all.
Welcome home, my friend. Mike Portnoy"

Dude...literally TWO POSTS above yours!!     

Although...I'm glad yours included the pictures

[DragonAttack]

^
I honestly did not see it.  Oops.    (give me a bit of leeway, I go in for laser surgery Monday )

Yeah....  I did at least include the pix  .....

[gzarruk]

Now they're tattoo bros

[zappafrank2112]

Finally, with MP back and James working on his more challenging areas, we'll get the 35th anniversary tour of WDADU in its entirety next year!!!!

...no, really, I'd poop myself for that.

[Skeever]

Mike just posted the improv section of BTL from Budakon saying he's looking forward to doing this some more. So that sounds promising. Granted, they might do it during a different song instead, but BTL is such a perfect song for it.

Jordan recently unlocked his patreon interview with MP where they also discussed how much they love him providing. Jr said he feels like he could be in a band where he just gets up on stage and improvises the entire time. So I am definitely looking forward to that coming back into DT some.

[devieira73]

Wow, JLB posting those photos was really beyond words 
It seems all of them are really moved by the reunion... except John Myung, as always, of course!    

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

those pictures give credence to the rumor that JLB will be on the next album

[ReaperKK]

I don't know, it sounds pretty far fetched, you got a source?

[Jamesman42]

I messaged him saying I saw it in a dream.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I don't know, it sounds pretty far fetched, you got a source?

DT Discord 😀

[adastra]

Mangini and Dream Theater parts their ways...... According to Blabbermouth Jay Weinberg and Slipknot parts ways.
I knew it... I always knew it; Mangini will join Slipknot.

[Nefarius]

In other news, Hugh Syme is already done with the next album cover!



Greetings...
Nef

[Trav]

Something I thought of this morning that I hadn't seen mentioned yet. Hopefully with MP coming back, we'll get some better merch. Their merch, especially what they have online, has sucked for a while now. 

[Stadler]

Way late to this party, but after hearing and reading what Mike Mangini has said, it is my opinion that the other four members of Dream Theater made a decision to let Mangini go and bring back Mike Portnoy. No idea whether that is exactly what went down, but that's what it sound like, to me. No real big deal. Mangini was classy, as he always is.

Finally, a lawyer without the word salad.
And one that has an actual opinion.
Imagine that. 

Yup.

God some of these posts have been beyond tedious. Imagine having to live your life as a lawyer

I'm an auditor so maybe I have an unusual willingness to appreciate convoluted and unnecessary documentation, but I've really enjoyed the detailed breakdowns and discussions in here. In a situation where fans don't have much insight, it helps to reduce the possibilities to their essence and then to pick the one that fits the few facts we do have. It's not that I need to know, but encapsulating a huge array of possibilities (and feelings) into a couple simpler stories is a useful exercise - especially since we will never get all the details.

I can't imagine coming to this forum voluntarily if you find long, over-complicated circumambulation around a point that doesn't matter all that much anyways distasteful. 

Oh, I actually agree with you! The posts have all been interesting. My comment was intended as a bit of a wink.

But as someone who's studied linguistics (various applications), I come at it from a different angle to the lawyers. Linguistically, there's very little ambiguity. Mangini was replaced because they wanted Portnoy back. Every sign points to that. Is it incontrovertible evidence? No. Would it satisfy the 99% of us who aren't lawyers? Almost certainly

For the "linguistic expert" (and all the lawyer bashers):  you missed the point entirely.  If you'll note, I DID give my opinion, clearly, and it's not miles away from the speculation.  The difference is, I'm clear that it's what I THINK, and it's not ignoring all the evidence that DOESN'T support my position.  The ONLY reason I posted anything here about this - and what was "beyond tedious" to me - is that too many posters were pretending this was Twitter/X and confusing "fact" with "opinion".   Just because you THINK it doesn't make it true, and you shouldn't act as if it is.   People were NOT saying "I THINK Mike might have been fired", they were flat out saying "Mangini WAS  fired" and were making comments implying that it was shitty behavior on the part of the band.  It's not shitty behavior if it only happened in your mind.  

Sorry if I'm a little salty - it's already a quintessential Monday, and it's not even 8:15 am where I am - but it's lousy to start the week after a couple days away and hear your sincere posts dismissed as what might be "tedious", "word salad", "convoluted" and "unnecessary".  I write stuff that's interesting to me and that (I hope) someone else might get a kick out of. If you don't, so be it, move on.  I'm not sure the shots are necessary, though.

[ReaperKK]

In other news, Hugh Syme is already done with the next album cover!



Greetings...
Nef

No way that's legit, it's far too creative.

[Stadler]

Why couldn't MM clearly say "I was keen to keep going exactly as before, but the other guys decided they would prefer to reunite with MP instead and I understand why"?

But he did say it:
- I understand Dream Theater's decision to get Mike Portnoy back at this time.
- You got your guy back.
- Mike, I tried to keep your area in good shape.
- The decision was made and I heard it, I was told, and I understood that this is an original band member going back to the band.

I'm sorry to everyone who thinks this is beating a dead horse, I just don't want the discourse to turn into "well obviously we don't know what happened so let's move on and assume all versions of the event have an equal chance of being correct, just for semantics" when there is in fact one version of events that has the most chance of being the most correct. Yes, there may be behind the scenes details filling it out and details about DT's relationship with MM that may have influenced or lead to this reunion, but "Mike Mangini was let go to make way for Dream Theater's reunion with Mike Portnoy" seems to be what happened, judging by what Mike Mangini himself says, and the volume of posts from a minority of people insisting that that's just one of the many possibilities that are vague and nebulous (not counting Rich into this) should not get in the way of recognizing that.

AGAIN, for the record, I never said all options have an equal chance of being right; that's ridiculous.  I'm just saying be conscious of where YOU (whoever, not you, Mora) are making a leap in order to justify your opinion. THAT'S ALL.  My OPINION - clearly stated as such - is largely in accordance with the concensus.  I'm just not walking around like it's fact and saying shit that isn't or may not be actually true.

And by the way, that a ton of people all think the same thing doesn't even REMOTELY make it accurate.  Go to the P/R thread to see that fallacy in action....