JLB - "I can't sing like that anymore"

[Stadler]

And under no circumstances does this fan think that Russell Allen is a move in that direction. 

[The Great Ape]

Every time I wonder about it, I feel like JLB can't be replaced just like that...Imagine from the other members perspective :
1) He has been there since I&W, his voice is the only known by most, like axl rose for gnr.
2) They are old and probably don't imagine changing their habits.
3) Maybe they think the chances someone not too young can do the work, at this age, without being a diva etc...
4) Low risk to wreck another part of the DT fanbase
5) Maybe they like the band writes album, then singer rehearses via webcam
6) True friendship over opinion

Cons :
-They hit a technical limitation like that
-Even if it's not like anselmo at the end of pantera, he seems not a lot physically with the band outside of tours.
-He puts W and Wo before voyels

All very valid points.

Let's remember our community here is a small world. For every user that posts that they can live without Pull Me Under, there are dozens of fans at concerts that will roar when the song starts. True, JLB has his fair share of critics but there would be an equally large (I daresay WAY LARGER) number of people that would jump ship without him. I am one of those, for sure - I would not "ragequit" the band if James were to go, but they'd better put a total and complete masterpiece of an album to keep me interested.

Also, which band with this longevity, and this stability with the lead singer, changed vocalist and remained at the top of their game? with due proportions, look at Judas Priest, they brought in a guy that could do (and scream) anything Halford could do and even more, and the fanbase still dwindled and people wanted Rob back anyway.

There's no scenario, at this point of their carreer, where DT changes vocalist and do even better than before. Best scenario? they play more or less the same venues they usually do with less people in attendance, and fans for a while enjoy the novelty of hearing Take the Time and Voices live like it's 1994 again. But replacing James would bring DT into "bands that still go on replacing members here and there while there's still people who want to see them" territory, the twilight of their carreer.

EDIT: Another aspect to consider, who would even replace James? prog metal is a small world, there is no singer out there who could potentially join DT and cause an earthquake of excitement and sales. Maybe Russell Allen, but still DT won't become bigger stars overnight. So they either get an unknown talent like Priest did with Ripper, a guy no one knows, or an estabilished singer from the genre. In neither of these two cases the prog world "breaks" and everyone jumps on DT's bandwagon.

When I saw Dream Theater people were dancing in the aisels during pull me under. The security people kept having to force people to go back to their seats.
When I come to dreamtheaterforums.org it's 10 pages of complaining about James and calling on him to be replaced.

No wonder these guys all shut down their "official" forums long ago.

[bosk1]

When I come to dreamtheaterforums.org it's 10 pages of complaining about James and calling on him to be replaced.

No wonder these guys all shut down their "official" forums long ago.

Yes, because truly that's all this forum is about.   

Your exaggeration conveniently ignores everything except those "10 pages," as well as the positive things said in support of James.  If you feel some of that discussion is negative, you might better spend your time contributing something positive to that conversation and having a discussion rather than criticizing a community you've been part of for a few days.

And, no, that isn't why any of the members of DT shut down their official forums long ago.

[Glasser]

Ape

There is a lot of great comradery on this forum as well as some deep music discussions and in some cases some personal ones that always show support. I have only been here 2 years but this is a great place to discover new music, partake in some fun roulettes and share opinions agreed or challenged but always respectful. Welcome to the forum! There's a lot of great stuff here. 

[bosk1]

Shut up, newbie.  We don't like you either. 




























I kid, I kid. 

[Glasser]

Yeah, I know, but I like you all!.

[The Great Ape]

I'm going to try and be more positive. I admit I did not join with noble intentions. I had heard this place was very negative from another group I'm a part of, and rushed here to defend the band. When I finally got here I found more or less what I expected, lots of criticizing the band going completely off the rails, tons of negativity, and basically the mentality of sportsradio the day after the football team loses.

But since I'm still here, I will try a different approach, or leave altogether. I will not criticize the mods anymore for letting bashing slide and I will not resort to just trolling when things seem hopeless for those who still enjoying liking DT.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

When I finally got here I found more or less what I expected, lots of criticizing the band going completely off the rails, tons of negativity, and basically the mentality of sportsradio the day after the football team loses.

links? i'm relatively new myself but haven't seen any of this. i enjoy DT a lot but i also enjoy eating popcorn so please point me to it! 

[Glasser]

I'm going to try and be more positive. I admit I did not join with noble intentions. I had heard this place was very negative from another group I'm a part of, and rushed here to defend the band. When I finally got here I found more or less what I expected, lots of criticizing the band going completely off the rails, tons of negativity, and basically the mentality of sportsradio the day after the football team loses.

But since I'm still here, I will try a different approach, or leave altogether. I will not criticize the mods anymore for letting bashing slide and I will not resort to just trolling when things seem hopeless for those who still enjoying liking DT.

Woah!. You shouldn't have to TRY. I didn't realize there was a DT mafia... 

[The Great Ape]

When I finally got here I found more or less what I expected, lots of criticizing the band going completely off the rails, tons of negativity, and basically the mentality of sportsradio the day after the football team loses.

links? i'm relatively new myself but haven't seen any of this. i enjoy DT a lot but i also enjoy eating popcorn so please point me to it! 

No, this is just attempting to bait me into negativity and trolling, 10 minutes into my pledge to do better

[bosk1]

I had heard this place was very negative from another group I'm a part of

Well, don't believe the hype, because it isn't true.

[TAC]

I'm going to try and be more positive. I admit I did not join with noble intentions. I had heard this place was very negative from another group I'm a part of, and rushed here to defend the band. When I finally got here I found more or less what I expected, lots of criticizing the band going completely off the rails, tons of negativity, and basically the mentality of sportsradio the day after the football team loses.

WE will all defend the band. I bought my ticket and loved the show, but like when a football team plays, it's ok to say the QB threw a bad pick or something like that. We're just talking, shooting the shit.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

When I finally got here I found more or less what I expected, lots of criticizing the band going completely off the rails, tons of negativity, and basically the mentality of sportsradio the day after the football team loses.

links? i'm relatively new myself but haven't seen any of this. i enjoy DT a lot but i also enjoy eating popcorn so please point me to it! 

No, this is just attempting to bait me into negativity and trolling, 10 minutes into my pledge to do better

requesting a link to aforementioned "off the rails, negative sportsradio" isn't baiting, i was just interested in seeing it myself! seems like it might not actually exist tho since it is possible to have a negative opinion of something without it being off the rails negative

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I'm going to try and be more positive. I admit I did not join with noble intentions. I had heard this place was very negative from another group I'm a part of, and rushed here to defend the band. When I finally got here I found more or less what I expected, lots of criticizing the band going completely off the rails, tons of negativity, and basically the mentality of sportsradio the day after the football team loses.

But since I'm still here, I will try a different approach, or leave altogether. I will not criticize the mods anymore for letting bashing slide and I will not resort to just trolling when things seem hopeless for those who still enjoying liking DT.

What do you mean by this? Judging by your other post about DT's alleged politics, which was chock full of negative stereotypes-- about Jews in particular-- I would say you are on thin ice but just curious as to your intentions.

[Stadler]

I'm going to try and be more positive. I admit I did not join with noble intentions. I had heard this place was very negative from another group I'm a part of, and rushed here to defend the band. When I finally got here I found more or less what I expected, lots of criticizing the band going completely off the rails, tons of negativity, and basically the mentality of sportsradio the day after the football team loses.

But since I'm still here, I will try a different approach, or leave altogether. I will not criticize the mods anymore for letting bashing slide and I will not resort to just trolling when things seem hopeless for those who still enjoying liking DT.

You do you, of course; I'd never tell you what to do or not, but if you're interested, and have an open mind, join the fun.  I know I've experienced a couple different communities more or less related to the band, and this is BY FAR the most civil, the most intelligent, and the most.... giving, for lack of a better word, of any I've been to.  There is at least one, maybe two - we're not going to name names or provide links - that in my not so humble experience, SEVERELY crossed the line (lines?) over the years.  I've only once, ever, contemplated notifying someone off-line of activity on-line and it was at one of those sites.

In contrast, here, these are my friends.  Not my "internet friends", my FRIENDS.  We meet.  We break bread.  We attend each other's weddings, funerals and other life events.  There are people here that I talk to regularly and we haven't mentioned "Dream Theater" in years, save maybe to coordinate concert meetings.  Some I don't agree with on all - or many - "issues", but I've come to learn that differing opinions aren't character flaws. 

I think you'll find what you bring here.  If you come in with a negative attitude looking for conflict, you'll find it, because you reap what you sow.  If you come in looking for good people that won't always pull punches or tell you what you want to hear, then you'll find that too, and maybe, just maybe, come out with some relationships that will enrich your life.

[TAC]

Amen, Brother.

[The Great Ape]

I'm going to try and be more positive. I admit I did not join with noble intentions. I had heard this place was very negative from another group I'm a part of, and rushed here to defend the band. When I finally got here I found more or less what I expected, lots of criticizing the band going completely off the rails, tons of negativity, and basically the mentality of sportsradio the day after the football team loses.

But since I'm still here, I will try a different approach, or leave altogether. I will not criticize the mods anymore for letting bashing slide and I will not resort to just trolling when things seem hopeless for those who still enjoying liking DT.

What do you mean by this? Judging by your other post about DT's alleged politics, which was chock full of negative stereotypes-- about Jews in particular-- I would say you are on thin ice but just curious as to your intentions.

Hello There,

Looking back, I recognize that my responses may have come across as trolling, and for that, I apologize. It wasn't the right way to handle the situation, and I regret my actions.

In the heat of the moment, while defending the band from criticism, I allowed my emotions to get the best of me. Rather than engaging in a constructive and mature dialogue, I resorted to a less than appropriate approach. I now see that this was a mistake, and I'm committed to learning from it.

Also... I want to stress that I hold the Jewish community in extremely high regard and had no intention of causing offense or implying anything negative. It's crucial to me that this is made clear, and I apologize for any misunderstandings or hurt feelings that may have arisen.

As for the locked thread, I respect the decision made by the moderators, and I won't discuss the specifics, as per their wishes. Moving forward, I aim to approach discussions with more thoughtfulness, empathy, and understanding, ensuring that my words and actions reflect the respect and consideration everyone deserves.

If you'd like to discuss the specifics of the Politics of Dream Theater thread, or anything else from my trolling days, please add it to my inbox.

I'm going to try and be more positive. I admit I did not join with noble intentions. I had heard this place was very negative from another group I'm a part of, and rushed here to defend the band. When I finally got here I found more or less what I expected, lots of criticizing the band going completely off the rails, tons of negativity, and basically the mentality of sportsradio the day after the football team loses.

But since I'm still here, I will try a different approach, or leave altogether. I will not criticize the mods anymore for letting bashing slide and I will not resort to just trolling when things seem hopeless for those who still enjoying liking DT.

You do you, of course; I'd never tell you what to do or not, but if you're interested, and have an open mind, join the fun.  I know I've experienced a couple different communities more or less related to the band, and this is BY FAR the most civil, the most intelligent, and the most.... giving, for lack of a better word, of any I've been to.  There is at least one, maybe two - we're not going to name names or provide links - that in my not so humble experience, SEVERELY crossed the line (lines?) over the years.  I've only once, ever, contemplated notifying someone off-line of activity on-line and it was at one of those sites.

In contrast, here, these are my friends.  Not my "internet friends", my FRIENDS.  We meet.  We break bread.  We attend each other's weddings, funerals and other life events.  There are people here that I talk to regularly and we haven't mentioned "Dream Theater" in years, save maybe to coordinate concert meetings.  Some I don't agree with on all - or many - "issues", but I try to remember that differing opinions aren't character flaws. 

I think you'll find what you bring here.  If you come in with a negative attitude looking for conflict, you'll find it, because you reap what you sow.  If you come in looking for good people that won't always pull punches or tell you what you want to hear, then you'll find that too, and maybe, just maybe, come out with some relationships that will enrich your life.

Yes... I recognize that now. I will try a different approach.

[Glasser]

Why would someone actually join the forum to cause negativity? Is this a "see I told you so" situation? Give the forum a chance or be gone, JEEZ! 

[Trav]

Why would someone actually join the forum to cause negativity? Is this a "see I told you so" situation? Give the forum a chance or be gone, JEEZ! 

Yes. And then turn around and tell everyone instead of just moving on. It's all attention seeking.

[The Great Ape]

Why would someone actually join the forum to cause negativity? Is this a "see I told you so" situation? Give the forum a chance or be gone, JEEZ! 

That is the plan!

Why would someone actually join the forum to cause negativity? Is this a "see I told you so" situation? Give the forum a chance or be gone, JEEZ! 

Yes. And then turn around and tell everyone instead of just moving on. It's all attention seeking.

I'm deeply sorry that, in being sorry, I have found new ways to offend. Let's please keep this on topic, and feel free to slide into my DMs if you'd like to hash it out privately. 

[MoraWintersoul]

I will not resort to just trolling when things seem hopeless for those who still enjoying liking DT.

I mean, I get you, but everyone here is enjoying and liking DT. We just get more caught up in the inside baseball and analysis, and we've been in the fandom for so long that we can discuss changes we have observed over a long period of time, without giving the backstory of the history of our thoughts and opinions to each other, because we know those thoughts and opinions. I know what everyone here thought about every tour after ADTOE because I was literally here discussing these tours with them, and some of these guys go 10+ years beyond that. We all share that place of awareness that Dream Theater is a great band in history because we're here on a DT-related forum 20, 15, 10 years later discussing them. If you're just coming in here, you'll read those stories of how much we really love Dream Theater when we get sappy, just not every day and in every discussion

[Glasser]

Why would someone actually join the forum to cause negativity? Is this a "see I told you so" situation? Give the forum a chance or be gone, JEEZ! 

That is the plan!

Why would someone actually join the forum to cause negativity? Is this a "see I told you so" situation? Give the forum a chance or be gone, JEEZ! 

Yes. And then turn around and tell everyone instead of just moving on. It's all attention seeking.

I'm deeply sorry that, in being sorry, I have found new ways to offend. Let's please keep this on topic, and feel free to slide into my DMs if you'd like to hash it out privately. 

There's nothing to hash out, its all good, enjoy the forum, its what you make of it. I truly love it and the peeps here.   

[Stadler]

I will not resort to just trolling when things seem hopeless for those who still enjoying liking DT.

I mean, I get you, but everyone here is enjoying and liking DT. We just get more caught up in the inside baseball and analysis, and we've been in the fandom for so long that we can discuss changes we have observed over a long period of time, without giving the backstory of the history of our thoughts and opinions to each other, because we know those thoughts and opinions. I know what everyone here thought about every tour after ADTOE because I was literally here discussing these tours with them, and some of these guys go 10+ years beyond that. We all share that place of awareness that Dream Theater is a great band in history because we're here on a DT-related forum 20, 15, 10 years later discussing them. If you're just coming in here, you'll read those stories of how much we really love Dream Theater when we get sappy, just not every day and in every discussion

I agree with this post a lot. 

[Lax]

I think the darkest eras of this forum were mine portnoy getting Tom DeLonged and the astonishing
Did those last long, I doubt it

[Stadler]

I think the darkest eras of this forum were mine portnoy getting Tom DeLonged and the astonishing
Did those last long, I doubt it

I'm not 1000% sure what that means, but it got a laugh out loud nonetheless.

[crystalstars17]

Well well... It looks as if someone has taken over my job here 

Thanks, actually. It was becoming a bit of a chore.

[gzarruk]

Confidentially, I just saw this posted online:

DREAM THEATER's JAMES LABRIE Blasts Singers Who Lip Sync, Says Backing Tracks Are 'Acceptable' When Used 'Creatively'

https://blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theaters-james-labrie-blasts-singers-who-lip-sync-says-backing-tracks-are-acceptable-when-used-creatively#lnga7lm7c7iaeufz9l%0A

[Skeever]

I think the darkest eras of this forum were mine portnoy getting Tom DeLonged and the astonishing
Did those last long, I doubt it

I'm not 1000% sure what that means, but it got a laugh out loud nonetheless.

I remember a lot of people being pretty happy when Mike left. I do think it was misguided, a lot of fans were just blaming Mike for what they perceived to be a dip in quality of the band, and MP was an easy target since he was always putting himself out there. In retrospect it's a bit silly. But I remember MP one thing back in the band shortly after leaving and I cannot imagine what would have happened to the fandom if they had really let him back in because a lot of people were really excited to see how the band would grow out from under MP's thumb.

[Trav]

I think the darkest eras of this forum were mine portnoy getting Tom DeLonged and the astonishing
Did those last long, I doubt it

I'm not 1000% sure what that means, but it got a laugh out loud nonetheless.

I remember a lot of people being pretty happy when Mike left. I do think it was misguided, a lot of fans were just blaming Mike for what they perceived to be a dip in quality of the band, and MP was an easy target since he was always putting himself out there. In retrospect it's a bit silly. But I remember MP one thing back in the band shortly after leaving and I cannot imagine what would have happened to the fandom if they had really let him back in because a lot of people were really excited to see how the band would grow out from under MP's thumb.

I was definitely one of those people that thought it was a good move for the band to go without him. I wasn't a big fan of SC and BC&SL (at the time) and like you said, I blamed Mike. I felt ADTOE was a return to form, and I thought the band was headed in a better direction.  Looking back now, there is something missing since he's been gone. I've mentioned before that it took several albums for me to notice it. Portnoy was constantly pushing to try new things and find inspiration in other places. It started to cause some unbalanced albums. The last three with him were "peaks and valleys" types but man were the peaks fucking huge! 

As for the last part, I think the vast majority of fans, outside of this forum, would have welcomed Portnoy back at any time. And still would. All over Facebook , YouTube and Reddit you still see all of the "bring back MP" or "the good ol' days with MP"  comments abound.

[Madman Shepherd]

I think the darkest eras of this forum were mine portnoy getting Tom DeLonged and the astonishing
Did those last long, I doubt it

I'm not 1000% sure what that means, but it got a laugh out loud nonetheless.

I remember a lot of people being pretty happy when Mike left. I do think it was misguided, a lot of fans were just blaming Mike for what they perceived to be a dip in quality of the band, and MP was an easy target since he was always putting himself out there. In retrospect it's a bit silly. But I remember MP one thing back in the band shortly after leaving and I cannot imagine what would have happened to the fandom if they had really let him back in because a lot of people were really excited to see how the band would grow out from under MP's thumb.

I was definitely one of those people that thought it was a good move for the band to go without him. I wasn't a big fan of SC and BC&SL (at the time) and like you said, I blamed Mike. I felt ADTOE was a return to form, and I thought the band was headed in a better direction.  Looking back now, there is something missing since he's been gone. I've mentioned before that it took several albums for me to notice it. Portnoy was constantly pushing to try new things and find inspiration in other places. It started to cause some unbalanced albums. The last three with him were "peaks and valleys" types but man were the peaks fucking huge! 

As for the last part, I think the vast majority of fans, outside of this forum, would have welcomed Portnoy back at any time. And still would. All over Facebook , YouTube and Reddit you still see all of the "bring back MP" or "the good ol' days with MP"  comments abound.

Was The Astonishing period really that dark? Divisive, sure. But for me that hated the album, the only thing dark was that I started to ponder if I'd still be a fan if they did another album like that.

[Trav]

After hearing The Gift of Music, The Astonishing was the first album since becoming a fan in 2000 that I didn't buy on release day.  It was probably a month after it came out that I heard the whole thing.  It took multiple listens to get through.

[TAC]

After hearing The Gift of Music, The Astonishing was the first album since becoming a fan in 2000 that I didn't buy on release day.  It was probably a month after it came out that I heard the whole thing.  It took multiple listens to get through.

Huh..
I feel like The Gift Of Music perfectly encapsulates what Dream Theater is in 4 minutes.

[Trav]

After hearing The Gift of Music, The Astonishing was the first album since becoming a fan in 2000 that I didn't buy on release day.  It was probably a month after it came out that I heard the whole thing.  It took multiple listens to get through.

Huh..
I feel like The Gift Of Music perfectly encapsulates what Dream Theater is in 4 minutes.

It's okay. By then I was burnt out on the self-titled album, and when I heard The Gift of Music, it just sounded like more of the same. And all of the storyline stuff that was coming out online seemed so cheesy and unoriginal. There was nothing appealing about it and I only went and bought it out of loyalty.

[TAC]

After hearing The Gift of Music, The Astonishing was the first album since becoming a fan in 2000 that I didn't buy on release day.  It was probably a month after it came out that I heard the whole thing.  It took multiple listens to get through.

Huh..
I feel like The Gift Of Music perfectly encapsulates what Dream Theater is in 4 minutes.

It's okay. By then I was burnt out on the self-titled album, and when I heard The Gift of Music, it just sounded like more of the same. And all of the storyline stuff that was coming out online seemed so cheesy and unoriginal. There was nothing appealing about it and I only went and bought it out of loyalty.

I found The Gift Of Music on its own remarkably refreshing after DT12. The story is cheesy but it didn't bother me too much. There's a lot to chew on, even too much to chew on, with The Astonishing.

[Trav]

After hearing The Gift of Music, The Astonishing was the first album since becoming a fan in 2000 that I didn't buy on release day.  It was probably a month after it came out that I heard the whole thing.  It took multiple listens to get through.

Huh..
I feel like The Gift Of Music perfectly encapsulates what Dream Theater is in 4 minutes.

It's okay. By then I was burnt out on the self-titled album, and when I heard The Gift of Music, it just sounded like more of the same. And all of the storyline stuff that was coming out online seemed so cheesy and unoriginal. There was nothing appealing about it and I only went and bought it out of loyalty.

I found The Gift Of Music on its own remarkably refreshing after DT12. The story is cheesy but it didn't bother me too much. There's a lot to chew on, even too much to chew on, with The Astonishing.

I'm glad you liked it. Different strokes.