Parasomnia Timeline Thread

[Madman Shepherd]

While I realize that you can't conduct an interview like this in an adversarial manner, it would have been nice if the interviewer had asked something like, "While I understand that you wouldn't simply rewrite an existing album, the structural similarities between, for example, Learning to Live and Breaking All Illusions are pretty obvious.  [list a few of the similarities].  Did you guys intentionally do that?"[/list]

I agree with your points about the interview.  For the record, I basically asked him one-on-one a very similar question to what I quoted from you above, and he unequivocally denied intentionally structuring any of the songs on ADTOE to any songs on I&W, and said (similarly to his response to the first interview question) that any similarities in structure or feel were just a coincidence.  While I think that Thiago (and others) really overreached with a lot of the supposed similarities, some of them REALLY sound/feel valid, so I was really surprised by his answer.

That's the thing. Thiago really overreached. I remember his post (I haven't gone back and read it) really wanted to make it seem like a huge part of the album was based on the I&W structure. I mean, I immediately noticed the LNF similarity to UAGM (I'm shocked not everybody did) but I also didn't nitpick about some parts being slower followed by X then Y which may have been how UAGM did it but at different tempos, melodies, vocal phrasing, etc.

Of course, BMUBMD didn't follow any structure but was clearly influenced by the band Red, but no more so than any of their Muse or Coldplay or whatever inspired songs sounded like those bands. I thought it was hilarious how some people freaked out that they were ripping off Red as if they hadn't used that same tactic on any number of other albums. Rip off was their phrasing, not mine. Clear homage but not a rip off.

[gzarruk]

While I realize that you can't conduct an interview like this in an adversarial manner, it would have been nice if the interviewer had asked something like, "While I understand that you wouldn't simply rewrite an existing album, the structural similarities between, for example, Learning to Live and Breaking All Illusions are pretty obvious.  [list a few of the similarities].  Did you guys intentionally do that?"[/list]

I agree with your points about the interview.  For the record, I basically asked him one-on-one a very similar question to what I quoted from you above, and he unequivocally denied intentionally structuring any of the songs on ADTOE to any songs on I&W, and said (similarly to his response to the first interview question) that any similarities in structure or feel were just a coincidence.  While I think that Thiago (and others) really overreached with a lot of the supposed similarities, some of them REALLY sound/feel valid, so I was really surprised by his answer.

That's the thing. Thiago really overreached. I remember his post (I haven't gone back and read it) really wanted to make it seem like a huge part of the album was based on the I&W structure. I mean, I immediately noticed the LNF similarity to UAGM (I'm shocked not everybody did) but I also didn't nitpick about some parts being slower followed by X then Y which may have been how UAGM did it but at different tempos, melodies, vocal phrasing, etc.

Of course, BMUBMD didn't follow any structure but was clearly influenced by the band Red, but no more so than any of their Muse or Coldplay or whatever inspired songs sounded like those bands. I thought it was hilarious how some people freaked out that they were ripping off Red as if they hadn't used that same tactic on any number of other albums. Rip off was their phrasing, not mine. Clear homage but not a rip off.

I remember very well when MP posted about BMUBMD being very similar to that song from Red and I thought "you gotta be kidding me" considering he was the main guy behind Never Enough/Stockholm Syndrome. But those were the times when the split had just happened and Mike had no problem talking crap about DT online for a while. Fun times

[HOF]

I have never heard of the band Red. But I did listen to Build Me Up Burn Me Down tonight, and I can't imagine wanting to copy a band/song that sounds like that. That's wild.

[Madman Shepherd]

I have never heard of the band Red. But I did listen to Build Me Up Burn Me Down tonight, and I can't imagine wanting to copy a band/song that sounds like that. That's wild.

Well, I liked BMUBMD and I liked Feed the Machine (the song that no doubt inspired BMUBMD) after i checked it out. So I blindly bought the Red album it was on and...well, I like the song Feed the Machine.

[Cool Chris]

I am one of the musical luddites on this forum, and have no idea what you guys are talking about when it comes to musical structure. Anything beyond a verse and a chorus is (happily) way over my head.

[Setlist Scotty]

I am one of the musical luddites on this forum, and have no idea what you guys are talking about when it comes to musical structure. Anything beyond a verse and a chorus is (happily) way over my head.

Read Thiago's explanation here:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/10164438464290184/
IMO, he does a great job of explaining it so that anyone can understand.

[Cool Chris]

I am one of the musical luddites on this forum, and have no idea what you guys are talking about when it comes to musical structure. Anything beyond a verse and a chorus is (happily) way over my head.

Read Thiago's explanation here:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/10164438464290184/
IMO, he does a great job of explaining it so that anyone can understand.

You must log in to continue.

Ummm... well crap. 

[bosk1]

The only thing I remember him doing a great job of was being an idiot.

[Setlist Scotty]

The only thing I remember him doing a great job of was being an idiot.

C'mon Bosk...

I am one of the musical luddites on this forum, and have no idea what you guys are talking about when it comes to musical structure. Anything beyond a verse and a chorus is (happily) way over my head.

Read Thiago's explanation here:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/10164438464290184/
IMO, he does a great job of explaining it so that anyone can understand.

You must log in to continue.

Ummm... well crap. 

Ha! Well for Stads and anyone else who doesn't have Facebook, here's the post:

Dream Theater's  highly anticipated new album is a week shy of hitting the shelves, and already the glowing reviews are pouring in from journalists, DJs, music bloggers, authors from around the world. "A Dramatic Turn of Events" is their first release featuring new drummer Mike Mangini, and one with the huge task of proving to the fans that the band is alive and well after Mike Portnoy's departure.

I have heard the album, and will say I thought it was very good overall! Considering I admittedly did not like Black Clouds & Silver Linings all that much, and how weird it is to think of a Dream Theater without Portnoy (Just because I love the man's drumming, and thought it to be a big part of why I love this band. I'm very aware of how competent everyone in the band is), this new album was a relief for me, and I'm enjoying it a lot! Having said that, this post is not about me reviewing the album, at least not in the traditional way reviews are expected to be presented in. I am here to talk to you about the similarities between "A Dramatic Turn of Events' and Dream Theater's own 1992 release, "Images and Words", a matter that hasn't been touched by any review I've read so far.

Okay, maybe "similarities" isn't quite enough to describe the relationship between the 2 albums I'm about to present to you, but let that be the word for now.

As some of you know, I am the guitarist/producer/mixer/editor of the "VRA! Split-Screen Covers", an online collaborative project, where we record cover performances and post them on Youtube.  So far we have covered 5 Dream Theater songs. Between this project, covering a few of John Petrucci's solos, playing DT's music with my own band for fun at times, and generally being a DT fan for over 12 years, I think it's safe to say that I know my Dream Theater well by now. Btw, I'm also the guitarist in "Bad Salad" (we're about to hit the studio to record our debut - http://www.facebook.com/BadSalad ), an architect, an amazing boyfriend and awesome soccer player, and generally a nice modest guy. ... So before anyone wants to be funny about it, no, I don't just hang around "DTing" all day.

Our latest Split-Screen Cover was of "On the Backs of Angels", the only single off "A Dramatic Turn of Events" that was officially put out early in its entirety. Roadrunner Records released the song on their Youtube channel on June 28th, and we had our cover up by July 10th.

While I was learning how to play the song and memorizing the arrangements I noticed similarities between it and "Pull me Under", but didn't get too crazy over it since the time was short and I had so much to do to get the collab up (guitar playing is actually the least of my worries when I'm producing a collab like this).

When I finally heard the rest of the album, and got over the initial excitement of how awesome it was, I began spotting more similarities... "Wow, this sounds like that part on Under a Glass Moon", "This verse develops just like that verse in Learning to Live"... The more I heard it the more "Images and Words" nuggets I found. This wasn't just a coincidence, I was finding references to almost every song of "Images and Words" on the new album, so I decided to A/B the albums and make notes. I came to the wonderfully shocking conclusion that the entire album (or almost, I'm positive on at least 6 songs) was written based off of the charts of Images & Words songs. I know this might come across as an absurd accusation to many of you, but I wouldn't be coming out in public with this information if I hadn't done my homework, and if I wasn't confident this approach to writing the new album was a conscious/intentional decision, maybe even humorous, by the band.

When I say the songs were written-off-the-charts I mean arrangement-wise, their structures, sometimes even orchestrations and nuances that make the parts what they are, and their roles within the songs. This doesn't mean they will sound alike at all, because within a given guideline for arrangement you could write virtually an infinite amount of different songs, and mainstream/pop has been doing so for decades to back me up on this statement.


Some of these songs are so equal in terms of arrangements that I'm surprised more people didn't catch on to this nugget yet. Others just follow a rougher guideline (or so it seems to me at this point). Here are the matches I was able to make:

On the Backs of Angels – Pull me Under

Lost Not Forgotten – Under a Glass Moon

This is the Life – Another Day

Far from Heaven / Breaking All Illusions – Wait for Sleep / Learning to Live

Outcry – Metropolis Part 1

Bridges in the Sky – **Take the Time**

Build Me Up, Break Me Down – **Surrounded**

**Now, these last 2 matches, "Bridges in the Sky" and "Build me Up, Break me Down" were the 2 I found that followed a rougher guideline. If it weren't for the precise pairing of the other songs on the album I might not even associate these with "Take the Time" and "Surrounded". As it is I had to interpret how they would interpret the charts for these songs, if that makes any sense, and maybe even understand their roles on the album. For example, Surrounded was a very keyboard-driven song, and "Build Me Up, Break me Down" is too, just in a more modern way. Anyway, these 2 definitely require some more researching to allow me to come to plausible conclusions, for now I'm just suspecting the matches.


All other songs though are VERY easy to A/B (I've done them all), and you might have some fun in doing so yourself. I will go through a couple of them below however, just so you know what I mean.

BTW, "Beneath the Surface" was a song John Petrucci wrote at home on his own and presented to the band AFTER the album was done. They mentioned this on an interview, that he thought this song would fit very nicely to cool down the album at the end, so the band agreed and worked on it. This is why there are 9 songs instead of just 8.

When you compare the songs you'll notice sometimes it's a bit hard to spot where one section ends and another one begins if you are expecting them to be of the same length. Don't think of it this way. In general, the sections are longer on "A Dramatic Turn of Events". It's as if DT redid Images and Words with an "over the top" mindset. The solos are longer, and the unisons/harmonies are longer and crazier. Keep that in mind and you'll stay on track while comparing the pairs.


THIS IS THE LIFE – ANOTHER DAY:

     Intro clean/acoustic guitar 2x
     Full band + thematic guitar solo 1x
    *Cool down*
     Verse 1: Piano + vocals
     Verse 1: Piano + vocals + guitar volume swells
     Chorus: drums slowly build up
     Thematic solo again, "quieter" (played by the Sax on "Another Day", cleaner guitar + keys on "This is the Life")
     Verse 2: (harmonically/melodically similar to verse 1, but over a groove throughout)
     Chorus
     Bridge (climb)
     Guitar solo (not exactly the "Theme", but derived from it)
     Chorus (this time played at its "strongest")
     Instrumental ending on the theme (once again with the guitar in place of Saxophone)


LOST NOT FORGOTTEN – UNDER A GLASS MOON:

**piano intro presenting the theme** (this is only present on "Lost not Forgotten" and actually attempts to throw you off. I personally believe this  "chopin" moment was added after the song was done) - Edit #1 (09/15/11): [This "attempts to throw you off" was originally meant as a joke (can I attempt a few "funnies" on my own fb? thank you!). By "IT" I meant the "part" as an animated clever being, not as DT members trying to sneak it in maliciously to fool everybody. I had to edit in this bit because people are using this portion of my text to disqualify an otherwise objective analysis]

     Guitar + key plays the theme (guitar: Root + Octave, slides up and down the neck)
     Drums join in: Double Bass patterns (doubled by the bass guitar) + 4/4 snare feel
     Drums/Bass continue the pattern, guitars are harmonizing over the theme
     Guitar joins drums and bass on the "Pattern" they were doing (+unison riff to lead to the next part)
     Weird-ass guitar/key unison (diminished, full-tone type vibe) / drums & bass speed it up (double feel)
     Verse 1 Riff (4/4) *no vocals yet*
     Verse 1 Riff (4/4) + keys (serving the pad role) + Vocals
     Verse... (getting hotter to lead into the chorus)
     Chorus: Double-bass drums + /8 snare feel + intricate unison riffing in between chorus lines (fast bit at the end)
     Verse 1 riffing again (no vox)
     Verse 2 riff: guitar cools down, Bass guitar is supporting the rhythm more predominantly
     Bridge: Bass still holding it together, guitar doing higher single dotted 4th notes (keys supporting these notes)
     Chorus: (same style)... with the in-between vocal lines riffing and the "quickie" finishing it off
     break: Keys playing the whole weird break lines + guitar and bass just accenting a few notes (lots of pauses)
     Guitar joins keys on the lead lines, bass still holds the accents
     Guitar plays a power-chord type variation of this theme + bass: keys are now pad-style
    (band pauses just before the guitar solo)
     Guitar solo, over 3 different accompaniment/progressions/moods
     Instrumental bit "in-between solos"
     Keyboard solo ("airy/dreamy" ascending chords)
     Weird Full-Band Unison/Break (the type you need to count through until you memorize)
     Chorus (with slight vocal variations on the 2nd part) - no more in-between riffing like on the previous choruses
     "quickie" riff once again
     Main epic theme from the intro (Root + Octave guitar) + that double bass drum pattern with the bass guitar
     Closing riff

 
This should be enough to illustrate what I'm talking about. Hope you have some fun figuring this stuff out for yourself while listening to the other songs on the album. Here's one more interesting fact to everything I just pointed out: John Myung wrote 1 lyrics for Images and Words, and it was "Learning to Live", and he only wrote lyrics for "Breaking All Illusions" on the new album.

I have no idea why Dream Theater did this. Maybe because it was the album that "made them" in a time where it was a do or die for their careers, so it's an inspiring model. Maybe because this represents a new beginning for them with Mike Mangini, as it was when James Labrie joined the band back then. Maybe to celebrate 20 years of the album that defined the Dream Theater sound? Maybe they just thought it would be a fun challenge to write unique songs over pre-established charts, much like a few fans did (myself included) when they held the Stream of Consciousness song-writing contest back in 2002-2003. Either way, I applaud them for having the balls to do it and for the overall quality the end result turned out to have. I know how hard it is to write a song based off of a pre-established arrangement and have it sound concise, genuine and inspired. The tendency is to have a fucked up Frankenstein instead of music, so props to DT for pulling it off.

I opted to make this as a note on my own facebook profile because I don't want to spoil it for those who would rather make these discoveries on their own. If you do post my words anywhere outside of here please include a [SPOILER] tag to alert people of the content.

Take care and rock on!

- Thiago Campos

[Mladen]

I cannot find the interview, but maybe someone can back me up on this. Petrucci was asked about it, and he said the songs on A Dramatic turn of events weren't structurally modeled after Images and words. It was purely coincidental. It wouldn't be wrong if they did in fact repeat existing song structures, as bands do that all the time, but if Petrucci himself disputed the theory, why still float it around?

https://bravewords.com/news/dream-theater-guitarist-john-petrucci-responds-to-allegations-band-rewrote-images-and-words-for-a-dramatic-turn-of-events

Petrucci: "I think our fans enjoy analysing our music and looking at things under a microscope and stuff, and it shows the level of passion from the fans for what we do. They look at what we're doing, and they wanna know what's going on. Like I said, with every album people wanna try to find hidden messages and new meanings, secret nuggets and things like that. People have always searched for those types of things in our music. It shows how much our listeners are strongly interested in what we're doing in a very detailed manner."

UG: But obviously, there's no truth to the allegation?

Petrucci: "We really like music. We have a certain thing that we try to accomplish musically, a certain sound that makes us who we are. The core elements of Dream Theater, of who we are and how we make music. Those are elements that are identifiable. That's what gives the band its sound, and keeps the band having an identity."

UG: "I'm aware of that John, but this fan is alleging that Dream Theater simply rewrote Images And Words. Obviously, that isn't the case at all?

Petrucci: "We wouldn't rewrite an album, no. That wouldn't be something that we would do (laughs)."

Thanks for digging up the interview, I wasn't able to find it myself.

However, looking back on it, JP didn't explicitly shut down the allegations. He kind of dodged the question. 

[Zydar]

I am one of the musical luddites on this forum, and have no idea what you guys are talking about when it comes to musical structure. Anything beyond a verse and a chorus is (happily) way over my head.

Same here. If it's just the musical structure of the songs that are similar then it's no wonder I've never got the similarities. Structures and arrangements are the last thing I'm thinking of when I'm listening to music

[Sycsa]

but if Petrucci himself disputed the theory, why still float it around?

I remember when The Gift of Music came out, people were up in arms about an obvious autotune glitch at this part: https://youtu.be/fae4FQ4McSY?si=KH20ZQ8wrN3yi1Je&t=81 (people just don't have the TIIIIIIOOOAAAAME)

JP said there was no autotune used anywhere in the song, which was met with skepticism. So yeah, make of that what you will.

[Mladen]

That's a whole different thing. There are numerous softwares that deal with pitch correction and it doesn't have to be autotune. So if JP says it isn't autotune, it could still be Melodyne. 

[crystalstars17]

That's a whole different thing. There are numerous softwares that deal with pitch correction and it doesn't have to be autotune. So if JP says it isn't autotune, it could still be Melodyne. 

You guys are relentless  It's also entirely possible that this is what James sounds like when he's singing appropriate material for his current capabilities. 

[Awaken]

I am one of the musical luddites on this forum, and have no idea what you guys are talking about when it comes to musical structure. Anything beyond a verse and a chorus is (happily) way over my head.

Same here. If it's just the musical structure of the songs that are similar then it's no wonder I've never got the similarities. Structures and arrangements are the last thing I'm thinking of when I'm listening to music

Add me to this list. 

[efx]

Regardless of skill level nowadays most everyone is tuned on professional records. Doesn't mean it has to be much or sound like T-Pain (whose actual singing voice is amazing) but it's a tool that's more used than people will ever know. And honestly, having worked with both autotune and melodyne extensively in the past that part of TGOM is so obviously just a missed edit of one of those two programs. Now, that artists won't cop to that in interviews I totally get but anyone who works in mixing/engineering knows how often this is applied.

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

i've seen thiago's posts before, he truly is a distinguished gentleman.

[emtee]

I would be very happy and excited if we were to find out that they will record and document the making of DT16 and include it as a bonus option when it's released.

[nobloodyname]

but if Petrucci himself disputed the theory, why still float it around?

I remember when The Gift of Music came out, people were up in arms about an obvious autotune glitch at this part: https://youtu.be/fae4FQ4McSY?si=KH20ZQ8wrN3yi1Je&t=81 (people just don't have the TIIIIIIOOOAAAAME)

JP said there was no autotune used anywhere in the song, which was met with skepticism. So yeah, make of that what you will.

One you've heard it, there's no unhearing it. Oh well

[Madman Shepherd]

but if Petrucci himself disputed the theory, why still float it around?

I remember when The Gift of Music came out, people were up in arms about an obvious autotune glitch at this part: https://youtu.be/fae4FQ4McSY?si=KH20ZQ8wrN3yi1Je&t=81 (people just don't have the TIIIIIIOOOAAAAME)

JP said there was no autotune used anywhere in the song, which was met with skepticism. So yeah, make of that what you will.

Id be interested to hear his exact quote. James has said in the past he would use some autotune in the studio and live albums but never in concert so it's an odd thing for JP to say.

Regardless of skill level nowadays most everyone is tuned on professional records. Doesn't mean it has to be much or sound like T-Pain (whose actual singing voice is amazing) but it's a tool that's more used than people will ever know. And honestly, having worked with both autotune and melodyne extensively in the past that part of TGOM is so obviously just a missed edit of one of those two programs. Now, that artists won't cop to that in interviews I totally get but anyone who works in mixing/engineering knows how often this is applied.

Basically this. Even some of the most skilled vocalist have autotune done in the studio.

I remember somebody criticizing ADTOE when it came out claiming it was filled with autotune. Not to challenge him but to learn I asked if he could point out some examples and he never responded which makes me think he didn't know.

That said, I do think there's a little autotune in the word "remains" at the end of BTS but that all I have noticed. No big deal.

[bosk1]

As with a lot of things, "autotune" is a tool.  As such, it can be used in a way that is helpful and constructive, and it can be used in plenty of negative ways as well.  I think the kneejerk reaction whenever it is mentioned is for people to assume the latter.  And it doesn't help that "autotune" has become a generic description of a lot of different studio tools, so it can be confusing to zero in on what exactly we are talking about when people say "autotune."  Quite often, people arguing about it are probably just talking past each other and not really talking about the same thing.

But it always just makes me roll my eyes when people say they are experts at hearing autotune, whether they tout supposed credentials for working on creating albums, or doing studio work, or whatever.  Because, even though they sometimes might be right, there are plenty of times when they aren't.  There are LOTS of different ways that something might sound the way it does.  It could be autotune.  It could be some other effect.  It could be an error in the way different takes were spliced together.  It could just be the way harmony lines are layered together.  It could be just something odd that the vocalist just naturally did, with no production of any sort. 

An example is the supposed controversy about that line from The Astonishing.  I think Sycsa is mistaken about which song it was--as I recall, it wasn't that line in TGOM (but maybe there was something about that as well, and I am just not recalling).  It was on the word "earth" when James sings "and let me bring you back to earth" at about 0:43 in Three Days.  It does sound odd.  And I remember JP being asked about that, and he said that that is just how James sang it--no weird effects remnants that produced that.  And I do believe him about that.  That isn't to say that no effects were ultimately used, but rather, just that effect weren't used to produce that sound (or any others in the song)--it was something that happened naturally from James singing it that way [which, as a vocalist, I get, because when you are trying to apply some emotion and other qualities to your voice as you sing something, you often make unnatural sounding decisions, and sometimes you and others pick right up on it and go, "no, that doesn't sound right," and sometimes you don't).  Again, not to say effects weren't applied in post for certain things.  I don't think that's what he meant. 

[crystalstars17]

As with a lot of things, "autotune" is a tool.  As such, it can be used in a way that is helpful and constructive, and it can be used in plenty of negative ways as well.  I think the kneejerk reaction whenever it is mentioned is for people to assume the latter.

I think the kneejerk reaction is also to assume that, when most people say something is autotuned, that it's an automatic negative judgement on a singer's abilities, or that it's used to hide the singer's lack of ability.

[bosk1]

As with a lot of things, "autotune" is a tool.  As such, it can be used in a way that is helpful and constructive, and it can be used in plenty of negative ways as well.  I think the kneejerk reaction whenever it is mentioned is for people to assume the latter.

I think the kneejerk reaction is also to assume that, when most people say something is autotuned, that it's an automatic negative judgement on a singer's abilities, or that it's used to hide the singer's lack of ability.

Well, yeah, that's mostly what I meant.  That's a good way of saying it. 

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

there's also the argument about auto-tune contributing to a lack of transparency in the music industry. when listeners cannot distinguish between a naturally flawless performance and one enhanced by technology, it blurs the line between authenticity and artificiality.

[Adami]

As with a lot of things, "autotune" is a tool.  As such, it can be used in a way that is helpful and constructive, and it can be used in plenty of negative ways as well.  I think the kneejerk reaction whenever it is mentioned is for people to assume the latter.

I think the kneejerk reaction is also to assume that, when most people say something is autotuned, that it's an automatic negative judgement on a singer's abilities, or that it's used to hide the singer's lack of ability.

Which it can very much be, but also might not be at all. I remember when I dropped off my last album to be mixed. There four singers, one of whom did legitimately need a bit of tuning up, but two of them were classically trained singers and just knocked the songs out of the park. When I went back to listen to the first round of mixing, I heard a very wrong note vocally. I asked, and turned out the engineer went through and "tuned" or used melodyne on every single vocal part. I didn't ask him to, he didn't tell me he was going to do it. He said it's just what he does with everything. And he accidentally tuned one note incorrectly. Where I guess they were between two notes and it corrected it to the wrong one.

But it's just so common. It's also possible that JP really thought there wasn't any of it at all. It's so standard that the engineers may have just done it without running it by him.

[efx]

there's also the argument about auto-tune contributing to a lack of transparency in the music industry. when listeners cannot distinguish between a naturally flawless performance and one enhanced by technology, it blurs the line between authenticity and artificiality.

That's a fair point and something worth pointing out that singers aren't the only "victims" of this. Drummers performances are more often than not time aligned to be on the grid compared to how they used to do it (or could do it). Guitar performances are often done in minimal chunks to get the most precise takes. DT is probably on the side of not needing that but there's been for a while a sense of artificiality on a lot of modern metal recordings that I wish we could get away from in some cases.

[Stadler]

but if Petrucci himself disputed the theory, why still float it around?

I remember when The Gift of Music came out, people were up in arms about an obvious autotune glitch at this part: https://youtu.be/fae4FQ4McSY?si=KH20ZQ8wrN3yi1Je&t=81 (people just don't have the TIIIIIIOOOAAAAME)

JP said there was no autotune used anywhere in the song, which was met with skepticism. So yeah, make of that what you will.

One you've heard it, there's no unhearing it. Oh well

This is totally about ME, not about any of you, but every time I get a clip like that and I'm told "the auto tune is SO obvious!" I listen to it three or four times and I'm like "what?  what part, because I don't hear it!".  Haha.  TGOL?  I don't hear it. 

[nobloodyname]

It's the second half of 'time', drops off really weirdly. For what it's worth, I heard it more clearly when I was using better speakers earlier today.

It's no reflection on James, of course he can sing that line.

[Sycsa]

Id be interested to hear his exact quote. James has said in the past he would use some autotune in the studio and live albums but never in concert so it's an odd thing for JP to say.

I think Sycsa is mistaken about which song it was--as I recall, it wasn't that line in TGOM (but maybe there was something about that as well, and I am just not recalling). 

Well, a quick google-fu yielded this reference to the incident I'm fairly confident I'm recalling accurately: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dreamtheater/s/xgMZeAo3EW

I remember when The Gift of Music was released as a single, a lot of people thought there was autotune (or some sort of digital editing at least) used in the "time" of "people just don't have the time for music anymore", so much so that the band had to release a statement denying it.

No blabbermouth article this time though.

[bosk1]

Oh, OK.  Fair enough.

But I do also recall the other line being heavily discussed.

[nobloodyname]

There's a curious vocal glitch in 'fight' in the first verse of Sleeping Giant - is that a remnant of autotune/Melodyne, too?

[gzarruk]

The biggest editing mistake I remember form TA (not autotune, but a bad cut I guess) is "take the evening to de-cide".

[dparrott]

I just hope MP helps break the DT mold of intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-break-solo-chorus-ending.  Man that's getting old!

[The Letter M]

I just hope MP helps break the DT mold of intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-break-solo-chorus-ending.  Man that's getting old!

How about...

Acoustic Intro - Full Band Intro - Pre-Verse 1 - Pre-Verse 2 - Verse 1 - Pre-Chorus - Chorus - Pre-Verse 2 - Verse 2 - 1/2 Pre-Chorus - Chorus x2 - Re-Intro but with a twist - Bridge w/extended Keyboard and Guitar solo trade-offs - Instrumental Version of Chorus into Re-Intro - Softer Verse - Build-Up Pre-Chorus - Chorus - Outro

-Marc.

[SwedishGoose]

I just hope MP helps break the DT mold of intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-break-solo-chorus-ending.  Man that's getting old!

I'm not sure if MP is needed to break the rut....
I mean they released The Astonishing and "fans" went into an uproar because it was not as they expected it to be.

The Astonishing broke the rut an in my view was a masterpiece but will they listen to me or the haters?