Top Of The World Tour 2023

[DoctorAction]

But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them? Would they do so face to face, or if they had to provide actual identification? Or does the relative anonymity here give them the sense that they can tear James apart to their heart's delight? Again, would they say it to his face?

You've just gone from an apology to another insulting term in "haters" and used a hyperbolic description of what are unremarkable opinions that differ to your own.

Why not try being more calm and reasonable? I reckon there'd be a higher chance of a post contributing something positive then.

[WilliamMunny]

Let's put aside the 'Great Debate' for a moment and discuss the 2023 Tour. Seems like the band is intent on staying on the road as much as possible to make up for lost touring. I've been out of the loop in regards to their socials and announcements—has there been any word of them returning for another stateside run?

Oh yes, please!!! I'm hoping for Wallingford CT again this fall! 🙏

You and me both! I think, given the band's age and my stage in life, I'd be willing to travel for a late summer/early fall show...maybe even make a trip of it. Not sure how many more times I'll get to see DT, so I'm really planning to make future shows a priority.

[KevShmev]

But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them? Would they do so face to face, or if they had to provide actual identification? Or does the relative anonymity here give them the sense that they can tear James apart to their heart's delight? Again, would they say it to his face?

You've just gone from an apology to another insulting term in "haters" and used a hyperbolic description of what are unremarkable opinions that differ to your own.

Why not try being more calm and reasonable? I reckon there'd be a higher chance of a post contributing something positive then.

I can't speak for anyone else, but this "hater" has spent tons of money on the band over the years (all albums, most of the official live releases, seen them 9 times since 1994, 3 of which were cities where I had to travel), so if anyone thinks I am not a real fan, well, they can go spit. 

[crystalstars17]

But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them? Would they do so face to face, or if they had to provide actual identification? Or does the relative anonymity here give them the sense that they can tear James apart to their heart's delight? Again, would they say it to his face?

You've just gone from an apology to another insulting term in "haters" and used a hyperbolic description of what are unremarkable opinions that differ to your own.

Why not try being more calm and reasonable? I reckon there'd be a higher chance of a post contributing something positive then.

Well as I can't seem to say anything right, I'll just explain that my use of the term "haters" was not used as name-calling in this sense (I did not call anyone a hater), but as it is most often used to refer to a group or, even less specific than that, a general opinion?

And I have tried the "calm and reasonable" approach. How many times have I explained rationally about how the voice works, for example, only for my attempt at helping others understand better what they may be criticizing due in part to ignorance (in this sense meaning, simply, a lack of knowledge), only for it to be dismissed, or fall on deaf ears? It doesn't seem to work.

[DoctorAction]

But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them? Would they do so face to face, or if they had to provide actual identification? Or does the relative anonymity here give them the sense that they can tear James apart to their heart's delight? Again, would they say it to his face?

You've just gone from an apology to another insulting term in "haters" and used a hyperbolic description of what are unremarkable opinions that differ to your own.

Why not try being more calm and reasonable? I reckon there'd be a higher chance of a post contributing something positive then.

Well as I can't seem to say anything right, I'll just explain that my use of the term "haters" was not used as name-calling in this sense (I did not call anyone a hater), but as it is most often used to refer to a group or, even less specific than that, a general opinion?

And I have tried the "calm and reasonable" approach. How many times have I explained rationally about how the voice works, for example, only for my attempt at helping others understand better what they may be criticizing due in part to ignorance (in this sense meaning, simply, a lack of knowledge), only for it to be dismissed, or fall on deaf ears? It doesn't seem to work.

You don't need to explain. The ignorance here is yours. You're ignorant of standing next to me and receiving that audio knowledge from the stage that night.

[gborland]

But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them?

Yet again (please learn this so you don't keep repeating your mistakes) I'm not a hater... I'm a passionate lifelong fan.

I have literally reached out directly to DT concert promoters asking them to change venue because they were booked into a terrible all-seated venue with no atmosphere. Of course, they completely ignored me.  I would have no qualms about saying exactly this to DT or their management should the opportunity arise.

In fact a close friend of mine, who largely shares my views on modern-day DT live performances, did have the opportunity to raise this point directly with JP at a gig a couple of years back. Apparently the suggestion of "playing decent venues with standing areas, instead of these soulless all-seated venues" was met with a confused blank stare from JP.

Oh well, we tried.

[nobloodyname]

I can vouch for Graham because I've met him a few times. He might be miserable, cantankerous and dour but let's not confuse inherent traits of Scottishness with his personal characteristics One thing he isn't is a hater. He's a very nice chap, actually.

[crystalstars17]

You don't need to explain. The ignorance here is yours. You're ignorant of standing next to me and receiving that audio knowledge from the stage that night.

I specifically meant ignorance pertaining to how the voice works. Not simply as in calling someone "ignorant" (like you're doing) or to what you're hearing from a layman's POV.

Nice try.

I hope we can all put this behind us though, seriously. Mods, maybe what we need here is a designated place to discuss the James issue, so it doesn't take over other threads? Then those who want to engage in it can do so in their own (miserable) space, and those of us who don't wish to see it can simply ignore.

I'm not here to make enemies. Quite on the contrary.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

You don't need to explain. The ignorance here is yours. You're ignorant of standing next to me and receiving that audio knowledge from the stage that night.

I specifically meant ignorance pertaining to how the voice works. Not simply as in calling someone "ignorant" (like you're doing) or to what you're hearing from a layman's POV.

Nice try.

I hope we can all put this behind us though, seriously. Mods, maybe what we need here is a designated place to discuss the James issue, so it doesn't take over other threads? Then those who want to engage in it can do so in their own (miserable) space, and those of us who don't wish to see it can simply ignore.

I'm not here to make enemies. Quite on the contrary.

In other words, we need to declare this thread a 'safe space' so that you don't have to see differing opinions from your own?

[crystalstars17]

In other words, we need to declare this thread a 'safe space' so that you don't have to see differing opinions from your own?

Oh just stop.

Editing to add here that it has nothing to do with my own opinion. It has to do with giving members of this forum a choice as to what type of conversation they wish to engage in, or not. I've been a mod in the past, granted it was a completely different kind of fandom.but this kind of thing works. It also dispells these little sandbox fights before they even start. You want to argue about James? Then count me out next time. Argue with somebody else. I'm out.

[DoctorAction]

You don't need to explain. The ignorance here is yours. You're ignorant of standing next to me and receiving that audio knowledge from the stage that night.

I specifically meant ignorance pertaining to how the voice works. Not simply as in calling someone "ignorant" (like you're doing) or to what you're hearing from a layman's POV.

Nice try.

I hope we can all put this behind us though, seriously. Mods, maybe what we need here is a designated place to discuss the James issue, so it doesn't take over other threads? Then those who want to engage in it can do so in their own (miserable) space, and those of us who don't wish to see it can simply ignore.

I'm not here to make enemies. Quite on the contrary.

I understood what you meant.

You are ignorant in this specific case. Look the word up. You lack information -  what I specifically heard that night on multiple occasions. Pitch waaaay off. Plain as day.

You can talk about voice and technique all you like, I'm happy to hear it (I'm an enthusiastic - and dreadful - amateur singer). But what you have been doing apart from that is calling other fans insulting names and being hyperbolic rather than respecting their different perspectives.

I want to get along. Hence why I'm carefully not name-calling or insulting you in response.

EDIT: Peace. Be happy.

[hefdaddy42]

Oh for God's sake.

[EPIC Outro]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[cramx3]

But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them?

Yet again (please learn this so you don't keep repeating your mistakes) I'm not a hater... I'm a passionate lifelong fan.

I have literally reached out directly to DT concert promoters asking them to change venue because they were booked into a terrible all-seated venue with no atmosphere. Of course, they completely ignored me.  I would have no qualms about saying exactly this to DT or their management should the opportunity arise.

In fact a close friend of mine, who largely shares my views on modern-day DT live performances, did have the opportunity to raise this point directly with JP at a gig a couple of years back. Apparently the suggestion of "playing decent venues with standing areas, instead of these soulless all-seated venues" was met with a confused blank stare from JP.

Oh well, we tried.

Well, no surprise to me that it is DT who want to play these venues.  I'm a big fan of them doing GA floor with balcony seat type of shows, but they always lean towards the seated theaters.  Funny how you say JP reacted.  Not surprised he isn't interested, but confused?  He should have some sense that there is a part of the fan base that misses the metal show atmosphere of their live show. 

[KevShmev]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[hunnus2000]

But if the band did have someone literally taking complaints, would the haters actually be calling them?

Yet again (please learn this so you don't keep repeating your mistakes) I'm not a hater... I'm a passionate lifelong fan.

I have literally reached out directly to DT concert promoters asking them to change venue because they were booked into a terrible all-seated venue with no atmosphere. Of course, they completely ignored me.  I would have no qualms about saying exactly this to DT or their management should the opportunity arise.

In fact a close friend of mine, who largely shares my views on modern-day DT live performances, did have the opportunity to raise this point directly with JP at a gig a couple of years back. Apparently the suggestion of "playing decent venues with standing areas, instead of these soulless all-seated venues" was met with a confused blank stare from JP.

Oh well, we tried.

Well, no surprise to me that it is DT who want to play these venues.  I'm a big fan of them doing GA floor with balcony seat type of shows, but they always lean towards the seated theaters.  Funny how you say JP reacted.  Not surprised he isn't interested, but confused?  He should have some sense that there is a part of the fan base that misses the metal show atmosphere of their live show.

I would think that the band's management along with the promoter would be the ones booking the venue. I would doubt if the band has a say in it.

[sfam2112]

I would think that the band's management along with the promoter would be the ones booking the venue. I would doubt if the band has a say in it.

They do have at least some say.
I forget whether it was said in one of his DVD commentaries or in the FAQ on his website, but MP did say that when they started doing the "Evening With..." shows that he told their management and booking agents to try to book them in seated venues.

[bosk1]

I would think that the band's management along with the promoter would be the ones booking the venue. I would doubt if the band has a say in it.

You are right that I don't think the band has a direct say in the specific venues, for the most part.  But from what I understand, they asked management to book seated theaters, as that is their preference. 

[nobloodyname]

This is why we can't have nice things.

See, that's mean. Because while most of the forum won't now have a Taylor Swift ear worm rattling around their noggin, as a fellow Swiftie, I do. Grrr.

[Azyiu]

You are right that I don't think the band has a direct say in the specific venues, for the most part.  But from what I understand, they asked management to book seated theaters, as that is their preference.

What about cities? Do they get to choose where to play?

[KevShmev]

See, that's mean. Because while most of the forum won't now have a Taylor Swift ear worm rattling around their noggin, as a fellow Swiftie, I do. Grrr.

[Awaken]

I would think that the band's management along with the promoter would be the ones booking the venue. I would doubt if the band has a say in it.

You are right that I don't think the band has a direct say in the specific venues, for the most part.  But from what I understand, they asked management to book seated theaters, as that is their preference.

Are there even non-seated venues in all of these markets that have capacities worth them playing in?  I'd hate to see them NOT stop in CT because Wallingford (seated theater) is off the table.  I remember seeing them in the early years at standing venues and it was awesome, but the theaters allow bigger/better (IMHO) stage productions which I've grown to appreciate way more.

[crystalstars17]

Are there even non-seated venues in all of these markets that have capacities worth them playing in?  I'd hate to see them NOT stop in CT because Wallingford (seated theater) is off the table.  I remember seeing them in the early years at standing venues and it was awesome, but the theaters allow bigger/better (IMHO) stage productions which I've grown to appreciate way more.

Same! It's one of the things I appreciate about their show. Not because these venues have seats (I'm usually on my feet anyway), but because of the relative quality of the venues themselves. I've been known to miss bands that I really love because of crappy standing venues.

[bosk1]

  I know a lot of venues have options for how they are configured.  For example, there is a casino theater they have played at in Reno several times that can be configured for either ALL seated, or with a standing "pit" area up front and seats in the back.  I have been to several shows and have seen it done both ways.  I think the first time was during the second U.S. leg for The Astonishing, and they had the standing area up front (which was awesome when they did the encore of As I Am and Pull Me Under, as people actually started moshing).  I believe they specifically requested other times they played there for it NOT to be configured that way.

There's also a theater in Oakland that they have played at more than once where the seats are optional.  I think a lot of venues do this nowadays.

[Ben_Jamin]

You don't need to explain. The ignorance here is yours. You're ignorant of standing next to me and receiving that audio knowledge from the stage that night.

I specifically meant ignorance pertaining to how the voice works. Not simply as in calling someone "ignorant" (like you're doing) or to what you're hearing from a layman's POV.

Nice try.

I hope we can all put this behind us though, seriously. Mods, maybe what we need here is a designated place to discuss the James issue, so it doesn't take over other threads? Then those who want to engage in it can do so in their own (miserable) space, and those of us who don't wish to see it can simply ignore.

I'm not here to make enemies. Quite on the contrary.

They could also start there own thread to discuss these JLB issues.

[Ben_Jamin]

You are right that I don't think the band has a direct say in the specific venues, for the most part.  But from what I understand, they asked management to book seated theaters, as that is their preference.

What about cities? Do they get to choose where to play?

No. That's why they have touring managers, or Managers. They're the ones that handle all the touring aspects such as Bus rentals, finding a hotel to stay at, the logistics in booking a venue (as some venues may be booked already for those dates, hence why the band skips the city).


There's a lot more that has to happen for a band to tour. And a lot of fans are ignorant to this fact of how intricate and how much goes into making a tour happen. It's not that simple.

This is why, Since I really enjoy this bands music, I will go to their show regardless of JLBs vocals, venue choice, or the setlist. Because I understand how much work goes into a tour and I will support a band I enjoy by buying tickets and going to the shows. It's the only way I can actually show my support.

As they all say, "They can't do this without us fans".

[Ben_Jamin]

I would think that the band's management along with the promoter would be the ones booking the venue. I would doubt if the band has a say in it.

You are right that I don't think the band has a direct say in the specific venues, for the most part.  But from what I understand, they asked management to book seated theaters, as that is their preference.

I also feel they don't want to book venues that aren't that great of venues either, especially if the backstage is sort of a dump.

Wouldn't that be climbing the ranks, playing venues that aren't dumps.

[DoctorAction]

I was chuffed with the London venue this time around (Hammersmith Apollo). A few tours back they were hitting pieces like Wembley Arena (not Stadium) and that absolutely sucks. Soulless warehouse box type of affair.

When I stumbled over the ticket this time, the venue had a lot to do with my opting in. And well pleased I did.

On the Six Degrees tour I also caught them at the Astoria on Charing Cross Road in London. Loved that place. All standing downstairs and was right in front of JP and MP when they came on with New Millennium. Good times.

I wish some massive bands (eg Maiden) would do a few dates somewhere like that. Maybe you have to apply for tickets or whatever but to see them close up like I was for DT this time would be amazing.

[ytserush]

Honest question.

Is there anyone else his age doing the vocal gymnastics needed for a rock show of this caliber?

Who are his peers? That is a tough one to answer given the band's unique style. Is it anyone in Rock? It's a fair point if so because I think a lot of these guys didn't take care of their voices or practice that much. Also, there might not be many progressive metal vocalists in their late 50s.

But either way I wouldn't call DT vocal melodies 'gymnastics'.

Basically, my argument is that there aren't many vocalists around of that age who are asked to do what James does given the framework he has for his job. That said he doesn't do himself many favors.

[ytserush]

Joey Belladonna is almost three years older.
Andi Deris is a year younger
Bruce Dickinson is 5 years older
Rob Halford is 12 years older
John Bush is the same age
Biff Byford is 12 years older (and still sounds amazing!)

Can we all agree that Bruce is in a league of his own and that he would be an unfair comparison?

As far as the rest, are any of those other guys touring as heavily and still bring it like they used to? I mean is Halford still belting out Painkiller every night? I just think James is asked to do more. Maybe I just don't expect too many vocalists to do what they do at 55 than they do at 30. What standards do you apply?

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Honest question.

Is there anyone else his age doing the vocal gymnastics needed for a rock show of this caliber?

Who are his peers? That is a tough one to answer given the band's unique style. Is it anyone in Rock? It's a fair point if so because I think a lot of these guys didn't take care of their voices or practice that much. Also, there might not be many progressive metal vocalists in their late 50s.

But either way I wouldn't call DT vocal melodies 'gymnastics'.

Basically, my argument is that there aren't many vocalists around of that age who are asked to do what James does given the framework he has for his job. That said he doesn't do himself many favors.

What is he being asked to do every night that is above and beyond what his peers are being asked to do?

[TAC]

Joey Belladonna is almost three years older.
Andi Deris is a year younger
Bruce Dickinson is 5 years older
Rob Halford is 12 years older
John Bush is the same age
Biff Byford is 12 years older (and still sounds amazing!)

Can we all agree that Bruce is in a league of his own and that he would be an unfair comparison?

As far as the rest, are any of those other guys touring as heavily and still bring it like they used to? I mean is Halford still belting out Painkiller every night? I just think James is asked to do more. Maybe I just don't expect too many vocalists to do what they do at 55 than they do at 30. What standards do you apply?

Yes, they are all still touring as heavily as Dream Theater. I'd hardly classify Dream Theater as heavily touring.


The standard I apply is to not listen back to it and say it sucked. That's my standard.

[ytserush]

Honest question.

Is there anyone else his age doing the vocal gymnastics needed for a rock show of this caliber?

Who are his peers? That is a tough one to answer given the band's unique style. Is it anyone in Rock? It's a fair point if so because I think a lot of these guys didn't take care of their voices or practice that much. Also, there might not be many progressive metal vocalists in their late 50s.

But either way I wouldn't call DT vocal melodies 'gymnastics'.

Basically, my argument is that there aren't many vocalists around of that age who are asked to do what James does given the framework he has for his job. That said he doesn't do himself many favors.

What is he being asked to do every night that is above and beyond what his peers are being asked to do?

Perhaps it's just me but I think the repertoire is a bit more challenging.

[ytserush]

Joey Belladonna is almost three years older.
Andi Deris is a year younger
Bruce Dickinson is 5 years older
Rob Halford is 12 years older
John Bush is the same age
Biff Byford is 12 years older (and still sounds amazing!)

Can we all agree that Bruce is in a league of his own and that he would be an unfair comparison?

As far as the rest, are any of those other guys touring as heavily and still bring it like they used to? I mean is Halford still belting out Painkiller every night? I just think James is asked to do more. Maybe I just don't expect too many vocalists to do what they do at 55 than they do at 30. What standards do you apply?

Yes, they are all still touring as heavily as Dream Theater. I'd hardly classify Dream Theater as heavily touring.


The standard I apply is to not listen back to it and say it sucked. That's my standard.

Fair enough.

[KevShmev]

The standard I apply is to not listen back to it and say it sucked. That's my standard.

Agreed.  How he sounds compared to his peers of a similar age is largely irrelevant to me.  Does it sound good or does it not sound good? That is all I care about.

I will add once again, to keep this on an even keel, that, despite his recent live struggles, James is still one of my three favorite rock singers ever.  I wouldn't be a Dream Theater fan without him.