A View From The Top Of The World track discussion

[jjfumbly]

1. TCoT
2. AVftTotW
3. ItPoE
4. 8VM
5. ACoS
6. IT
7. SDoIT

[LCArenas]

Octavarium
A Change of Seasons
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
The Count of Tuscany
In the Presence of Enemies
Illumination Theory
A View from the Top of the World

Yup, so far is at the bottom of the  "At least 19 minutes long" DT list but I will definitely listen to it more times to really form an opinion.

[Kotowboy]

Octavarium 
Six Degrees Of Inner Tube-ulence
The Count Of Tuscany
A View From The Top Of The World
Illumination Theory
In The Presence Of Enemies
A Change Of Seasons  **

If we were counting In The Name Of God - it would be above The Count.




** Maybe it's time I started treating A Change Of Seasons like some people treat The Astonishing - like it's the shittest thing ever created by humans.....

Maybe they'd see how silly they sound.

" I love all their 'epics' - except A change of seasons OBVIOUSLY "

[Dream Team]

What about ACOS is so off-putting to you? Just for a start it's got some genuinely emotional lyrics and one of JP's best solos, plus the whole "come let us adorn him" section. The build-up during the finale is awesome.

[Lonk]

My only complain about ACOS for me is the snare sound, but everything else about the piece is A+

[Mr.Mister]

Not sure where my rank will be, time will tell. I can say this though: AVFTTOTW takes me on a journey more than IT has ever done. IT is a superb song, but probably bottom epic for me. It's a nice heavy song with a string section in the middle and an uplifting end. A song like 8V takes me on a journey with dedicate moods, and good transitions. AVFTTOTW has different moods, and arguably the strongest intro to an epic, I'm also a fan of the "legacy" riff to end the song.

I don't know how to properly express this but listening to AVFTTOTW is like listening to the epic I wanted them to write for a long time. It's a song that if say Haken had written I'd be like "man I wish DT would do something like this" There are sections on this song I'm finding breathtaking.   

[erwinrafael]

Octavarium 
Six Degrees Of Inner Tube-ulence
The Count Of Tuscany
A View From The Top Of The World
Illumination Theory
In The Presence Of Enemies
A Change Of Seasons  **

If we were counting In The Name Of God - it would be above The Count.




** Maybe it's time I started treating A Change Of Seasons like some people treat The Astonishing - like it's the shittest thing ever created by humans.....

Maybe they'd see how silly they sound.

" I love all their 'epics' - except A change of seasons OBVIOUSLY "

That's harsh, but ACOS is also not my cup of tea.  Everytime I listen to it, I really feel its length. It's not something I feel listening to A View From The Top of the World, Illumination Theory, and In The Presence of Enemies.

[Dublagent66]

I haven't listened to the album in its entirety yet, but you can bet that I went straight to the closing epic title track.  The last time they did a closing track around 20 mins (DT12), I was nothing short of mortified.  Even after several spins over many years, Illumination Theory continues to be DT's worst epic IMO.  I'm happy to say that after the first listen of this new title track, I found it to be chock full of nothing but totally awesome!  That's pretty rare for me after only one spin of a song that long.  I like everything about it.  There's a lot of new tasty passages and different twists that don't sound re-manufactured.  I really have to say that I'm quite relieved.

What makes it such a mortifyingly bad epic to you?

Well, maybe "mortified" is too strong a word.  Extremely disappointed.  I'll spare all the gory details.  However, I do know from a overall fan base perspective, IT doesn't hold up very well compared to the other epics and with good reason as some others have indicated.

How do you know that the overall fan base thinks that IT doesn't hold up well?

Because I've been around a long time.  I've seen some pretty good sample sizes across multiple platforms that suggest IT is not liked as much as previous DT epics.  It really isn't that surprising.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I haven't listened to the album in its entirety yet, but you can bet that I went straight to the closing epic title track.  The last time they did a closing track around 20 mins (DT12), I was nothing short of mortified.  Even after several spins over many years, Illumination Theory continues to be DT's worst epic IMO.  I'm happy to say that after the first listen of this new title track, I found it to be chock full of nothing but totally awesome!  That's pretty rare for me after only one spin of a song that long.  I like everything about it.  There's a lot of new tasty passages and different twists that don't sound re-manufactured.  I really have to say that I'm quite relieved.

What makes it such a mortifyingly bad epic to you?

Well, maybe "mortified" is too strong a word.  Extremely disappointed.  I'll spare all the gory details.  However, I do know from a overall fan base perspective, IT doesn't hold up very well compared to the other epics and with good reason as some others have indicated.

How do you know that the overall fan base thinks that IT doesn't hold up well?

Because I've been around a long time.  I've seen some pretty good sample sizes across multiple platforms that suggest IT is not liked as much as previous DT epics.  It really isn't that surprising.

That seems fair-- "is not liked as much as previous DT epics" -- though the way you put it earlier made it sound like the fanbase vastly prefers 8VM a lot more.  We know that YOU personally feel that 8VM is way better and that IT is a bad epic.

What sort of data/sample sizes are you basing your conclusion on, just out of curiosity? Is it just YouTube views/comments?

[Dublagent66]

I already answered your question and I never said anything about 8VM specifically, but since you mentioned it, 8VM is one of DT's best and I'd be willing to bet that most of the fanbase will agree with that too.

[Kram]

Not sure where my rank will be, time will tell. I can say this though: AVFTTOTW takes me on a journey more than IT has ever done. IT is a superb song, but probably bottom epic for me. It's a nice heavy song with a string section in the middle and an uplifting end. A song like 8V takes me on a journey with dedicate moods, and good transitions. AVFTTOTW has different moods, and arguably the strongest intro to an epic, I'm also a fan of the "legacy" riff to end the song.

I don't know how to properly express this but listening to AVFTTOTW is like listening to the epic I wanted them to write for a long time. It's a song that if say Haken had written I'd be like "man I wish DT would do something like this" There are sections on this song I'm finding breathtaking.   

I agree 100%

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I already answered your question and I never said anything about 8VM specifically, but since you mentioned it, 8VM is one of DT's best and I'd be willing to bet that most of the fanbase will agree with that too.

I mean...putting ACOS aside and I guess SDOIT which is a bit of a different animal considering could be an entire album in itself, there aren't many other epics to choose from.

It sounds plausible the fanbase likes those all more than IT, though I am skeptical most think its as relatively inferior as you do. Anyway, I am sorry you find IT so mortifyingly bad. You're really missing out on some of the band's best work!

[evilasiojr]

This song is definitely a grower, liking it more and more.

[Dublagent66]

I already answered your question and I never said anything about 8VM specifically, but since you mentioned it, 8VM is one of DT's best and I'd be willing to bet that most of the fanbase will agree with that too.

I mean...putting ACOS aside and I guess SDOIT which is a bit of a different animal considering could be an entire album in itself, there aren't many other epics to choose from.

It sounds plausible the fanbase likes those all more than IT, though I am skeptical most think its as relatively inferior as you do. Anyway, I am sorry you find IT so mortifyingly bad. You're really missing out on some of the band's best work!

I've been a fan for 30 years.  I know the band's best work.  Not really missing out on anything.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I already answered your question and I never said anything about 8VM specifically, but since you mentioned it, 8VM is one of DT's best and I'd be willing to bet that most of the fanbase will agree with that too.

I mean...putting ACOS aside and I guess SDOIT which is a bit of a different animal considering could be an entire album in itself, there aren't many other epics to choose from.

It sounds plausible the fanbase likes those all more than IT, though I am skeptical most think its as relatively inferior as you do. Anyway, I am sorry you find IT so mortifyingly bad. You're really missing out on some of the band's best work!

I've been a fan for 30 years.  I know the band's best work.  Not really missing out on anything.

Good for you   

[Kyo]

Not sure if this is obvious or not at all, but I just had to find out if I'm hearing this right and the ending of View consists entirely of the notes of the first orchestral theme, just completely transformed rhythmically to the point where other notes are accentuated and you barely recongnize the whole thing. Genius.

[rab7]

Not sure if this is obvious or not at all, but I just had to find out if I'm hearing this right and the ending of View consists entirely of the notes of the first orchestral theme, just completely transformed rhythmically to the point where other notes are accentuated and you barely recongnize the whole thing. Genius.

It is not obvious. I've been trying to figure it out for days now. Though I never put in the effort to write out the notes

[Architeuthis]

It's really hard for me to say which epics I like in a particular order. I really like them all!
I guess my top three would be IT, 8VM, and AVFTTOTW.   
AVFTTOTW might be a contender for first place, but the outro is just so bizarre.  I was hoping the last section would soar high for a while unleashing JLB to carry the song to new heights. Instead he kind of disappears and the music takes a darker turn with that strange chord progression  to end it.  It's still pretty cool but a surprising choice.  I kind of find it humorous.   

[the_silent_man]

This song gets better every time. The section from  "The moment that you recognise just where your limits lie..." is just pure chills when listening in the right mindspace. Epic. This is the climax to me.
The song really does encapsulate all that's great about DT into one song. It's heavy with great riffs, it's epic, proggy as hell, melodic, has a great acoustic guitar section followed by cello, the neoclassical section, melodic guitar solos, shred sections, emotive lyrics.

[Kotowboy]

What about ACOS is so off-putting to you? Just for a start it's got some genuinely emotional lyrics and one of JP's best solos, plus the whole "come let us adorn him" section. The build-up during the finale is awesome.

I don't hate it - but if I reacted to the mere mention of it the way some people react to The Astonishing - they might see how daft they sound.

I don't hate A Change Of Seasons - but I don't see what everyone does and it's my least fave epic. I just find it disjointed.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

What about ACOS is so off-putting to you? Just for a start it's got some genuinely emotional lyrics and one of JP's best solos, plus the whole "come let us adorn him" section. The build-up during the finale is awesome.

I don't hate it - but if I reacted to the mere mention of it the way some people react to The Astonishing - they might see how daft they sound.

I don't hate A Change Of Seasons - but I don't see what everyone does and it's my least fave epic. I just find it disjointed.

ACOS is a defining piece of music for the band and was conceived as part of the I&W days. TA is VERY different music for DT and was presented after the band had released 12 studio albums. Of course they'll be received differently.

[erwinrafael]

Let's start breaking down this track?

The songs starts and ends with the same guitar riff.

The orchestral section at the start is the same as the "cello" section in the middle. The orchestral section in the end is a variation?

[AVFTTOTW]

Let's start breaking down this track?

The songs starts and ends with the same guitar riff.

The orchestral section at the start is the same as the "cello" section in the middle. The orchestral section in the end is a variation?

This theme is basically the main theme of the song.
At the end, yes this is a variation of it (in the manner of particular sections of tracks like TCOT, ANTR and SS)

[AVFTTOTW]

ACOS is a defining piece of music for the band and was conceived as part of the I&W days. TA is VERY different music for DT and was presented after the band had released 12 studio albums. Of course they'll be received differently.

And it was literally going to be part of the tracklisting of I&W (kind of like the Metropolis Pt 2 demo for FII) but they cut it from the tracklisting and shelved it till they perfected it (kind of like M.pt2).

[Kotowboy]

The Daily Doug... Breaks down the song. If you wanna check that out.

[erwinrafael]

Nah, he has enough hits already. 

[Kotowboy]

k

[Kyo]

The Daily Doug... Breaks down the song. If you wanna check that out.

Those superficial first impressions with his trademark "that's a fourth... minor second... oh!" mumbling are pretty worthless if you wanna understand what's actually going on.

[erwinrafael]

So far, I am seeing the structure of the song as a ∩ . It's like following the narrative of going up a mountain with the peak hit at the cello section, and then it descends so the movements go backwards in the second half. So guitar riff - orchestral section with main theme - vocals - crazy instrumental - peak (reprise of theme and playing at the top of the mountain solo) - crazy instrumental - vocals - orchestral section with main theme - guitar riff .

[Dublagent66]

The Daily Doug... Breaks down the song. If you wanna check that out.

Those superficial first impressions with his trademark "that's a fourth... minor second... oh!" mumbling are pretty worthless if you wanna understand what's actually going on.

Well, he doesn't have enough time to draw you pictures.  It's a reaction video, not music theory 101.

[rab7]

The Daily Doug... Breaks down the song. If you wanna check that out.

Those superficial first impressions with his trademark "that's a fourth... minor second... oh!" mumbling are pretty worthless if you wanna understand what's actually going on.

Well, he doesn't have enough time to draw you pictures.  It's a reaction video, not music theory 101.

And hearing the intervals out loud does help. When he did it for Octavarium, it was the first time I realized what was happening

[Kotowboy]

Also I didn't realise that the guitar and cello section was the same chords / intervals as the chorus.

[JRuless]

I love the 'all my natural instincts..' part. Classic DT, very LTL feel (first verse).

[lovethedrake]

I love the 'all my natural instincts..' part. Classic DT, very LTL feel (first verse).

Quite possible my favorite part of any song since About to Crash Reprise.   I wish they would be return to an entire album of this type of warmth.  This is where they really shine as a band IMO. 

[convrge]

The Daily Doug... Breaks down the song. If you wanna check that out.

Just watched his reaction video and I'm not sure what the big deal is with this guy. A few comments about the lyrics, "here is a meter change", "there was a half step change", etc. For a classical composer, I was expecting a more in depth analysis regarding the theory of the tune.