POLL: Train of Thought vs. A Dramatic Turn of Events?

[WildRanger]

What's your pick here and why?

[Peter Mc]

I know it's a popular album here but Train of Thought comes in the lower part of their discography for me.  I find it a bit one-dimensional and too much of a shredfest.  ADTOE is much more varied and melodic which is more of the DT that I enjoy.

[Volante99]

Close but going with ADToE.

ToT is very consistent but songs are a bit overlong- could have used some editing. They wrote the album in 3 weeks, and as freaking amazing as that is, I think it also shows a bit. Portnoy is the standout here IMO and his metal sensibilities give the album a certain authenticity and credibility.

While ADoTE is slightly less consistent, it has much higher highs. "Breaking All Illusions" is now a classic. "Far From Heaven" and "Beneath the Surface" are arguably some of the best ballads the band has done since the Kevin Moore days. Even the lead off single "On the Backs of Angels" has aged surprisingly well, (compared to the later singles "Enemy Inside" and "Untethered Angel" which really haven't). Inspired performances by JP and JR throughout.

[Trav]

A Dramatic Turn of Events would normally be my answer. However, Train of Thought has really moved up in my book lately. That's my pick

[Volante99]

I'll also say, much has been said about the production of ADoTE and a lot of the criticism is valid. But listening to it recently, it definitely has a certain atmosphere to it, a vibe. I've actually come to appreciate that it doesn't sound perfect, a bit rough around the edges, but (at least to my ears) it doesn't sound sterile or have that copy paste Pro Tools feel.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that (much like Metallica's ...And Justice For All, as an extreme example) I like the fact that it has a distinctive sound and feel to it, for better or worse.

[wolfking]

TOT by miles, no contest.

[Dedalus]

I know it's a popular album here but Train of Thought comes in the lower part of their discography for me.  I find it a bit one-dimensional and too much of a shredfest.  ADTOE is much more varied and melodic which is more of the DT that I enjoy.

This.

Especially the bold part

[TAC]

I don't listen to Dream Theater to get my metal. I wouldn't call ToT a shredfest either.

I literally never listen to ToT. I'm not one of those guys that rags constantly on how an album sounds, but ToT was their first album using pro-tools, right?, and it sounds like that. It sounds like it came out of a computer. There's no life or organicness to these tracks. They simply don't breathe.

I consider Endless Sacrifice close to a Top 10 DT track, and This Dying Soul isn't far behind it. I also really like ITNOG. SoC is excellent as well. But I don't care for As I Am, and not a huge fan of HTF.

But I will happily listen to Live At Budokan to hear these tracks.


That said, ADTOE simply has better songs IMO. Breaking All Illusions, Lost Not Forgotten, and Outcry are all amazing. And the supporting tracks are outstanding as well..TITL, BITS, FFH, BTS.

[Wim Kruithof]

interesting poll with two of my top 3 all time Dream Theater albums involved. They are both at the other end of the Dream Theater spectrum. One which is based in the metalside, the other one which is so melodic and harmonic. They are both very emotional, although where Train of Thought evolves in the darker side of it (anger and frustration)... has a Dramatic Turn of Events the kind of positive balance, which feels like the sum the split when Portnoy left the band and Mangini who came. Less arguing, more peace.

I voted for the Train because growing up Metallica was my favorite band, I wasn't aware of Dream Theater back then.

[lovethedrake]

I'm someone who leans heavily towards the progressive side of Dream Theater and while I'm bummed they went the direction they did with TOT I just think it's a better album.  ADTOE is my least favorite DT album so this was an easy poll for me despite TOT falling in the middle of the pack in DT's catalogue and despite it not being the style of music I prefer from DT.

[krands85]

TOT for me, though ADTOE isn't too far behind - they're my number 2 and 3 DT albums.

TOT was the first album to really hook me into the band, as I was coming in more from the metal side, having not really discovered prog at that point. It was my #1 for a while before I&W took over. So it'll always be a special album for me.

ADTOE is great too, though I'm not a huge fan of BMUBMD and FFH is one of my least favourite DT ballads, so they bring it down slightly.

[wolfking]

TOT is far from a shredfest.

[The Letter M]

While TOT was the band's newest album when I became a fan (mid-to-late 2004), and I listened to it A LOT (so much so that my original CD got VERY used and scratchy after a lot of travel and play that I had to buy another copy to make sure I had a decent disc to rip from), I still like ADTOE more.

It just has a bit more variety for me, and honestly, ADTOE is probably the last DT album I fully enjoyed 100%, and I would rank it in the upper-half of my favorite DT albums while TOT would be in the lower half.

-Marc.

[Madman Shepherd]

 

Wrong thread.



Thanks Wim.

[Wim Kruithof]

Madman, aren't you in the wrong poll / thread? 😉

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Tough call. TOT holds a special place in my heart because it was their newest album when I was becoming a fan. On the other hand, I think that ADTOE is ultimately a bit more consistent and representative of the Dream Theater sound. I think I'll pick ADTOE, but it's a fairly close one for me.

[pg1067]

Hmmm...

Train of Thought has DT's best instrumental (SC) and an epic closer (ITNOG).  As I Am is a really good metal song.  Vacant is cool, but it's not tipping the balance of anything.  The album would be better without TDS and HYF, which are, for me, bottom tier DT songs.

ADTOE is primarily about three songs:  BAI, Outcry and BITS.  Don't like LNF, and OTBOA is just ok.  The best thing about ADTOE as compared to TOT is that there's nothing on the level of TDS and HYF.

I think on volume alone, I have to give ADTOE the slight nod.

[TAC]

Hmmm...

Train of Thought has DT's best instrumental (SC) and an epic closer (ITNOG).  As I Am is a really good metal song.  Vacant is cool, but it's not tipping the balance of anything.  The album would be better without TDS and HYF, which are, for me, bottom tier DT songs.

ADTOE is primarily about three songs:  BAI, Outcry and BITS.  Don't like LNF, and OTBOA is just ok.  The best thing about ADTOE as compared to TOT is that there's nothing on the level of TDS and HYF.

I think on volume alone, I have to give ADTOE the slight nod.

You went in the complete opposite direction from me, but we both ended up at the same place.

[emtee]

The production decisions that were made on ADToE, on the physical product, make it impossible for me to vote for it. Great songs but completely unacceptable for any band, post 1969, to release a cd/album that sounded like that. I'm beating a dead horse so I'll stop now.

ToT was in regular rotation for the better part of 8 months but I agree that it could have benefited by being trimmed down a bit. Oddly, As I Am might be my favorite from that album. Straight up metal song with great riffing that stays on point.

[bosk1]

I like both albums a lot.  But ADTOE is in my top 3.  TOT is in my bottom 3.  So easy choice.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

ADTOE is a top 5 DT album. TOT is cool, but not a top 5 DT album.

[hefdaddy42]

ADTOE, because I like it better.

[Trav]

ADTOE, because I like it better.

Your reasoning is crazy.

[darkshade]

Two very different albums, however I rank both in roughly the same tier on my list of favorites, with ADTOE slightly ahead.
Against any other Mangini era DT album, TOT wins. ADTOE was an adrenaline shot to the band.

[hefdaddy42]

ADTOE, because I like it better.

Your reasoning is crazy.

It's all subjective.

Don't get me wrong, I like TOT plenty, but it's a bit of a one trick pony.  Excellent driving album.

[425]

As random album pairings go, this is actually an interesting one for me, because these are my favorite DT albums from their respective decades.

Train of Thought gets my pick. I don't think the album has a weak moment. It's just relentlessly awesome from the last note of Losing Time/Grand Finale to the first of The Root of All Evil. I don't mind the shredding on songs like This Dying Soul; I actually would like to hear modern DT do a little bit more of that. I don't mind the Canadian rapping on TDS and Honor Thy Father; I think it's a bit of a weird choice presented in a vacuum, but it fits the songs. And I think, paradoxically for their "heavy album," it has one of their strongest bodies of melodies. This was my first DT album, and the "I wanna feel your body breaking" chorus of TDS soaring out above the heavy riffing that precedes it was one of the first moments, maybe the first moment, when I thought, "Whoa, this band is something special."

I like ADTOE a lot, but it has some songs that I don't connect with as well as the weakest ToT songs—This is the Life and Build Me Up, Break Me Down, at least. Far From Heaven/Breaking All Illusions is a stunning pair that tops the Vacant/Stream of Consciousness pair, and includes perhaps my favorite DT song in BAI, but In the Name of God, Endless Sacrifice and This Dying Soul all might come before my third-place ADTOE song

[Trav]

ADTOE, because I like it better.

Your reasoning is crazy.

It's all subjective.

Don't get me wrong, I like TOT plenty, but it's a bit of a one trick pony.  Excellent driving album.

I was being sarcastic because of the simplicity of "I picked the one I like" explanation. I forget how everything comes across literally in text.

[WilliamMunny]

I love em both, but ADTOE has my favorite DT ballad ("This is the Life") and a top-3 rocker ("Bridges in the Sky"), so I'm going with that one.

That all being said, ask me again tomorrow and I might flip flop.

[RandalGraves]

ToT was also the "new album" for me when I became a fan and God knows I listened to that over and over and over when it hit but I went with ADTOE.

Honestly, the songs I can sit down and really enjoy, beginning to end, are As I Am, Vacant and In the Name of God. The other tracks are good (Honor Thy Father being the weak link) but I think they go on for too long. Not exactly a "shredfest", hahah, but that have their little tangents where I'm just waiting for it to end.

ADTOE is probably considered a "safe" album by DT standards but I don't think anything's wrong with DT playing to their strengths.

[SeRoX]

When it comes to rock/metal I value production more. I like both albums musically but ADTOE's production is a complete failure. So ToT win for me.

[Bad Altitude]

Went with ADTOE, mostly because of songs like This is the life and Breaking all Illusions. TOT is great and all, but it came out at a time when I had a slump as far as my DT interest goes, while I was listening very actively around ADTOE, and that made the latter album stick a little better in my mind. I have fond memories of walking around with my first child in a stroller (she would only fall asleep if we wheeled her around...), while listening to ADTOE over and over again, really digesting the album.

[JMaekelae]

Not much of a headscratcher..

Train of Thought was the first real low point for DT. The heaviness seems so forced its almost unlistenable. Feels like they were trying to prove something with the bucket full of pointless riffs and a serious lack of decent melodies. Point made. I had been a huge fan for 10 years before ToT but completely lost interest at that point.

While Octavarium and BCaSL had their moments, I still wasn't completely on board. Weirdly enough, Mike's unfortunate sacking was a blessing in disguise. Their superb return-to-form, A Dramatic Turn of Events was like a breath of fresh air. Finally the melodies and imagination were back. In my opinion, ADToE is by far their best album in this millennium.

[TAC]

MP was sacked? I'll give you that they called his bluff, but sacked?

[Puppies_On_Acid]

Train of Thought by many light years!

[ThatOneGuy2112]

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