"Official" Lost Not Forgotten (official bootlegs) thread

[425]

I think it would be hard for MP to know, coming from his perspective, how accessible information like this was to the typical fan.

[hefdaddy42]

Here's some pertinent comments from MP taken from the YJR-issue of the MoP official bootleg:

Dream Theater is playing the 2nd night of a 2 night stand in Barcelona, Spain... After an almost 2 hour 1st set of DT material and a 15 minute intermission, the lights went out and the opening chords to "Battery" began... 50 minutes later, the Spanish crowd had no idea what had hit them! The next day the word was all over the internet and our new tradition to cover a classic album whenever we did a 2 night stand in the same city had been established... but for those 50 minutes in Barcelona, the completely unsuspecting crowd had no way to see it coming... I remember looking into the crowd by the time we started "The Thing That Should Not Be" and seeing people look at each other like "Holy shit... they're doing the whole fucking thing!!!"

That's some pretty major hyperbole.

It was all over the parts of the internet where rabid DT fans were active.  If any given individual was not active on those parts of the internet at the time, then no, they wouldn't have known about it.

[TAC]

I would not have known it, as I was not real active on the internet at that time.

[Setlist Scotty]

Here's some pertinent comments from MP taken from the YJR-issue of the MoP official bootleg:

Dream Theater is playing the 2nd night of a 2 night stand in Barcelona, Spain... After an almost 2 hour 1st set of DT material and a 15 minute intermission, the lights went out and the opening chords to "Battery" began... 50 minutes later, the Spanish crowd had no idea what had hit them! The next day the word was all over the internet and our new tradition to cover a classic album whenever we did a 2 night stand in the same city had been established... but for those 50 minutes in Barcelona, the completely unsuspecting crowd had no way to see it coming... I remember looking into the crowd by the time we started "The Thing That Should Not Be" and seeing people look at each other like "Holy shit... they're doing the whole fucking thing!!!"

That's some pretty major hyperbole.

I know, right?


It went VIRAL!!

Not necessarily completely. As hef pointed out, the level of connection 20 years ago was not what it is today. But for what it was, it was definitely news that was being talked about. For reference, look at the last post in this Ytsejam digest 2 days after it happened (keeping in mind that the Ytsejam Mailing List was already a shell of what it once was):
http://interzone.com/Music/Ytsejam/2002/Feb/0030.html
Unfortunately, the referenced link doesn't exist but obviously it was being talked about on MP.com the next day, if not the same day.

Better yet, Blabbermouth reported on it the next day:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-performs-metallica-s-entire-puppets-cd-at-special-spanish-gig

So was it all over the internet like MP attending a DT show in March? No. But it was definitely being discussed in the online DT circles right after it happened, and certainly news spread in the following days.

edit: Sounds like it didn't take too long for Lars to even find out about it either:

Ulrich reportedly called DREAM THEATER drummer Mike Portnoy in the days following the gig...

https://blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-s-lars-ulrich-i-can-t-wait-to-hear-dream-theater-s-rendition-of-puppets

So yeah, nowhere near the hyperbole as you doubters might think if Lars himself got wind of it and called MP shortly after it happened. 

[KevShmev]

I don't think anyone is saying it wasn't talked about after the first time they played all of Master of Puppets.  I have not seen anyone make the argument.

The point is that it was not announced by anyone in the band as being an official thing, at least not officially or at dt.net or mp.com.  Only when there was backlash after the Chicago show (the 2nd city where they did MoP) did Portnoy come out and say online for sure that any second night in the same city would feature them covering an entire album.

[Setlist Scotty]

I don't think anyone is saying it wasn't talked about after the first time they played all of Master of Puppets.  I have not seen anyone make the argument.

That's not the impression I got from what pg1067 highlighted in the MP quote.

The point is that it was not announced by anyone in the band as being an official thing, at least not officially or at dt.net or mp.com.  Only when there was backlash after the Chicago show (the 2nd city where they did MoP) did Portnoy come out and say online for sure that any second night in the same city would feature them covering an entire album.

No arguments that it wasn't announced at that time as being an official thing - that's obvious from here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20020604102702/http://www.dreamtheater.net/tour2002.htm

Nonetheless, with the Chicago and NYC shows also being announced as special shows (just as the Barcelona show was), it didn't take much to put 2+2 together and figure that the same thing (or another cover album) would be featured during the second set.

[425]

Better yet, Blabbermouth reported on it the next day:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-performs-metallica-s-entire-puppets-cd-at-special-spanish-gig

By far the most disturbing thing I've learned from this discussion is that Blabbermouth has been around for over 20 years.

[Madman Shepherd]

I don't think anyone is saying it wasn't talked about after the first time they played all of Master of Puppets.  I have not seen anyone make the argument.

The point is that it was not announced by anyone in the band as being an official thing, at least not officially or at dt.net or mp.com.  Only when there was backlash after the Chicago show (the 2nd city where they did MoP) did Portnoy come out and say online for sure that any second night in the same city would feature them covering an entire album.

This whole argument would amount to nothing if DT just advertised on posters "A very special surprise set covering an album by a famous band!!!"

[Stadler]

 But then it wouldn't be a surprise! 

[TheSoylentMan]

Better yet, Blabbermouth reported on it the next day:
https://blabbermouth.net/news/dream-theater-performs-metallica-s-entire-puppets-cd-at-special-spanish-gig

By far the most disturbing thing I've learned from this discussion is that Blabbermouth has been around for over 20 years.

Absolutely. I was pretty surprised to see that.

[pg1067]

I don't think anyone is saying it wasn't talked about after the first time they played all of Master of Puppets.  I have not seen anyone make the argument.

That's not the impression I got from what pg1067 highlighted in the MP quote.

This horse is dead, and further beatings will serve no purpose.  However, since you mentioned me.  The intent of my comment when I bolded part of the MP quote was that the statement that "word was all over the internet" is ridiculous hyperbole.  I am not arguing or suggesting that no one talked about it after it happened, and the point that seems to be well-established on both sides of the argument is that the information about these cover performances was available but generally only known to those fans who were the most well-connected on the internet.

[Setlist Scotty]

I don't think anyone is saying it wasn't talked about after the first time they played all of Master of Puppets.  I have not seen anyone make the argument.

That's not the impression I got from what pg1067 highlighted in the MP quote.

This horse is dead, and further beatings will serve no purpose.  However, since you mentioned me.  The intent of my comment when I bolded part of the MP quote was that the statement that "word was all over the internet" is ridiculous hyperbole.  I am not arguing or suggesting that no one talked about it after it happened, and the point that seems to be well-established on both sides of the argument is that the information about these cover performances was available but generally only known to those fans who were the most well-connected on the internet.

Dead horse or not, I disagree. If Lars Ulrich heard about it within days of it happening, then it certainly went outside that circle of "the most well-connected on the internet". Let's also remember the context of MP's comment - he obviously wasn't speaking about it being on CNN.com, MSN.com, Time magazine, USA Today, etc. nor was he implying that. He was speaking within music/musician circles. And as has already been said, the level of connection online then is nowhere what it is today, but given the scope that it was at the time, it was being widely discussed. So given those considerations, is his statement "ridiculous hyperbole"? No.

[MoraWintersoul]

I'm not gonna keep beating the dead horse since I wasn't a fan back then for Smol Babby reasons, but the other day I was just talking about how we have literally forgotten what we used to do on the internet to get music news. It's like our brains are just making a shortcut between our ways to get info now and their unavailability in the past and going "well surely I had no idea of what was going on back then", and some people didn't, but we used to know stuff all the same. Going to an artist website or a news aggregator or a chat board was something that was done quite often and you didn't have to be particularly "dialed in" to do it. The percentage of people who are mildly "dialed in" with setlists right now when Facebook is delivering them what Blabbermouth says Tool played on their first show in three years and back then is about the same.

[don_waka]

Falling into Infinity Demos are out 

[EPIC Outro]

Do they sound any different than the 2007 Ytsejam release?

[HOF]

Falling into Infinity Demos are out 

Do they sound any different than the 2007 Ytsejam release?

Mail came early here, so I hold the CD here in my grubby hands. Never was able to get a copy of the original so I don't have anything to compare it to besides what's been previously uploaded to YouTube.

[gzarruk]

Do they sound any different than the 2007 Ytsejam release?

I'm curious to know how they compare to the COTC versions of these tracks. Those sounded much better than the YtseJam release.

[hefdaddy42]

I've been listening to it for the last 2 hours on Spotify, and it sounds fine to me.  I mean, they are demos, so they aren't going to sound as good as the FII studio album (the best sounding, best produced DT studio album, IMO), but they sound fine. 

[goo-goo]

Do they sound any different than the 2007 Ytsejam release?

I'm curious to know how they compare to the COTC versions of these tracks. Those sounded much better than the YtseJam release.

I don't think they have been remastered. The press releases for some of the other LNF boots have mentioned if they were remastered.

[HOF]

Do they sound any different than the 2007 Ytsejam release?

I'm curious to know how they compare to the COTC versions of these tracks. Those sounded much better than the YtseJam release.

I don't think they have been remastered. The press releases for some of the other LNF boots have mentioned if they were remastered.

The CD liner has the following credits:
- Additional audio editing: James 'Jimmy T' Nelson
- Mastered by Peter van 't Riet

Does not mention re-mastering, but not sure if those guys did the some new work on this version or if they did the original version. Have not heard the original YtseJam release, but this CD sounds fine. They sound like demos, but from a mastering standpoint they sound probably about as good as you can make demos sound.

[jimgolf]

I just stared listening to the falling into infinity demoes and it sounds about like the rest of the releases as far as "remastering" (meaning it's not a big remaster but it is cleaned up a little bit). I'm just happy to have a nice version of it released on streaming to go to these days because I'm a big fan of the falling into infinity demoes - lots of great stuff on there. If any fan hasn't listened to the demos I would say give them a spin.

[HOF]

Listening to the Metropolis Pt. II demo, and I really can't figure why it was such a big deal to MP back in the day to NEVER let anyone hear this. He acted like it was something really embarrassing or amateur or something. It's a really cool demo and it holds up just fine along with pretty much any other demo I've heard by anyone. Are there some messy parts? Sure, but nothing that would count as embarrassing I don't think.

[geeeemo]

The FII release is fantastic. As a newer fan, I dont have or am as familiar with much of the music outside the regular albums. To hear all the songs together was great. I am a big fan of FII anyway. I loved BMS with HK. I dont get the low ranking for NM, it's really so good here. The songs that didn't make the album were enjoyable as well, and I will be listening to this more to learn them better and see how much I like them. I may be able to vote more accurately the next time when these songs show up.

[Setlist Scotty]

Listening to the Metropolis Pt. II demo, and I really can't figure why it was such a big deal to MP back in the day to NEVER let anyone hear this. He acted like it was something really embarrassing or amateur or something. It's a really cool demo and it holds up just fine along with pretty much any other demo I've heard by anyone. Are there some messy parts? Sure, but nothing that would count as embarrassing I don't think.

The version that leaked is not the version on the FII demos. The version that leaked is WAY more loose and it's obvious the band was finding their way through the song. IIRC, what ended up on the FII demos was actually assembled from a few different performances, whereas I believe the original was just a straight shot all the way through. So I can see why he didn't want it circulated.

The irony of it is, there's a couple of things I actually prefer in the extra rough version!   

[devieira73]

Wow, didn't know that. After all these years, I'm feeling just like a padawan now! (because of you again, Scotty  )
This original leaked version is somewhere on youtube? I did a quick research, but I couldn't find it.

[Setlist Scotty]

Wow, didn't know that. After all these years, I'm feeling just like a padawan now! (because of you again, Scotty  )
This original leaked version is somewhere on youtube? I did a quick research, but I couldn't find it.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's out there somewhere, but I couldn't find it either.

[HOF]

Listening to the Metropolis Pt. II demo, and I really can't figure why it was such a big deal to MP back in the day to NEVER let anyone hear this. He acted like it was something really embarrassing or amateur or something. It's a really cool demo and it holds up just fine along with pretty much any other demo I've heard by anyone. Are there some messy parts? Sure, but nothing that would count as embarrassing I don't think.

The version that leaked is not the version on the FII demos. The version that leaked is WAY more loose and it's obvious the band was finding their way through the song. IIRC, what ended up on the FII demos was actually assembled from a few different performances, whereas I believe the original was just a straight shot all the way through. So I can see why he didn't want it circulated.

The irony of it is, there's a couple of things I actually prefer in the extra rough version!   

Ah, I did not know this, or if I did I had forgotten. Probably explained it in the original Ytsejam liner notes, which were not included in this release.

I really like this demo, and think it would have been interesting to hear what Met II might have been as a stand-alone epic song rather than a full album.

[Deadeye21]

Saw a leak of the next release, and we're getting something new again. Live in Berlin 2019, with the festival setlist of Untethered Angel, A Nightmare to Remember, Fall Into the Light, Peruvian Skies, Barstool Warrior, In the Presence of Enemies P1, Dance of Eternity, Lie, Pale Blue Dot and As I Am. So looks like they are gonna release some newer material after all. Didn't see a release date though.

[gzarruk]

Saw a leak of the next release, and we're getting something new again. Live in Berlin 2019, with the festival setlist of Untethered Angel, A Nightmare to Remember, Fall Into the Light, Peruvian Skies, Barstool Warrior, In the Presence of Enemies P1, Dance of Eternity, Lie, Pale Blue Dot and As I Am. So looks like they are gonna release some newer material after all. Didn't see a release date though.

Love that they're adding more new stuff this soon! I would've preferred something a bit different since we already have live versions of all these songs with this lineup, but I'm definitely getting this one anyway

[EPIC Outro]

Here's hoping there might be some differences in these performances compared to the Distant Memories release. Even if not, I'm always pumped for more DT.

[TAC]

Saw a leak of the next release, and we're getting something new again. Live in Berlin 2019, with the festival setlist of Untethered Angel, A Nightmare to Remember, Fall Into the Light, Peruvian Skies, Barstool Warrior, In the Presence of Enemies P1, Dance of Eternity, Lie, Pale Blue Dot and As I Am. So looks like they are gonna release some newer material after all. Didn't see a release date though.

Oh hell yes!!

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know.  Isn't most of that (if not all) on the Distant Memories package?

[Cool Chris]

That was my first thought. And don't we have As I Am, Lie, and Peruvian Skies on live releases already also?

[TAC]

I don't know.  Isn't most of that (if not all) on the Distant Memories package?

That's ok. I'll take a (hopefully) full set from a festival show. I don't care about any overlap with DM.

[425]

At the risk of reviving the debate over their live performances now versus their live performances with MP, one difference is that I would care much less about overlap if it was an MP-era release. The fact that those performances were all live without a click track means that there's a very good chance that two different performances of the same song are going to have a significantly different feel. The way they do it now, I feel like there's not much variation between two performances.