DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)

[darkshade]

I've never had strong opinions on DT's cover art. I actually think their artwork more or less improves with each album up til Systematic Chaos, but nothing is ever mind blowing.
WDADU is their worst, and each album is a little better than the previous, plateaus at 8vm, but then SC brings the ants, and BC&SL is like Awake re-imagined, and elephants, and the Mangini era covers are pretty meh to me.

[nikatapi]

To me, DT's best artwork has been Train of Thought -by far-. I love the photography-inspired art. It felt so elegant and so fitting not only to that album but to the DT experience as a whole. I hope they had used that resource more often.

Definitely one of the best ones for me as well.
As for Syme, i've loved some of his work, but lately his output has been very inconsistent and lazy.

I went to a music store and saw the deluxe version of Distant Memories, and good god there's some lazy photoshop on in. The back cover looks like fan art.

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

Overall I have to agree Train of Thought had some great artwork from Jerry Uelsmann. I already knew him from, believe it or not, the Outer Limits series, as they had many artwork from him in the intro's of the show. But yeah, Train of Though and the artwork in the booklet, awesome!

[gzarruk]

They haven't done the "add at least one element from the lyrics of each song to the cover art" approach in a while, which I think is really cool.

[Kotowboy]

I'm really not a fan of the Black Clouds & Silver Linings collage copy and paste style.

I always think it looks cluttered and silly.

I think the simpler the artwork the better ( but not overwhelmingly simple - like Bon Jovi's Have A Nice Day - which is so bland and forgettable. )

My fave DT art is probably Octavarium - and it's my fave album overall too.

Distance Over Time is a good concept - if HS made each element from scratch and didn't literally composite 2 stock images in 5 minutes.

Leat faves are WDADU, I&W, Awake and BC&SL for reasons I mentioned above.

[Stadler]

I actually was going to make a list of the DT albums, in order of album cover, most favorite to least.  And it turns out, that's kind of hard.  They have, historically, had really good covers.

- 8V
- 6DOIT
- TOT
- SFAM
- D/T
- I&W
- SC (both the stop light and the interchange)
- Awake
- BD&SL
- FII
--------
- ADTOE
- TA
- DT
- WDADU

Live albums:
- DM
- CIM
- LSFNY
- LAB
- LALP
- S
- LAM
-----
- OIALT
- BT4W

[hefdaddy42]

Oh, I think the DT cover is elegant in its simplicity.  I would rank it much higher than you have.

But different strokes.

[Fritzinger]

I think my favorite ones are Systematic Chaos (the special edition with the traffic lights) and Black Clouds.

I like some of Hugh's covers (like the whole artwork of Clockwork Angels and Snakes & Arrows), but yeah, lately he has gotten pretty lazy (the watermarks in DT12) and it almost pisses me off that a big band like DT can't hire a younger, more hungry artist that would probably work his ass off for them.

[MirrorMask]

Maybe they have other priorities than an absolutely killer, amazing and astounding artwork, and for their tastes and ideas of what a DT album cover should be, Hugh Syme is just good enough.

Who's even in charge of the thing, anyway? I mean, when it comes to discussing the new artwork, does their manager ask them "guys, it's time to think about the cover art, I'm gonna give a call to Hugh Syme like last time, is that ok"? I can't imagine any of the band members having such a strong and negative opinion on a DT artwork to the point that they put their foot down and insists with all the others, MP style (the self described "winner of arguments by wearing down the others") that they absolutely and totally need to drop a big name like Hugh Syme.

[Kotowboy]

I certainly hope that Petrucci is at least AWARE of the problems everyone has had with Hugh and isn't completely in the dark about how sloppy and lazy his recent efforts have been.

I like to think that Petrucci messaged HS something like " The D/T artwork is great - but come on man it's just two stock images composited.. We're paying you top dollar. "

I very much doubt this - but maybe HS does it for a massively reduced fee and gets some % of the back end ? So he doesn't feel like turning in his best work ?

[pg1067]

I can't imagine any of the band members having such a strong and negative opinion on a DT artwork to the point that they put their foot down and insists with all the others, MP style (the self described "winner of arguments by wearing down the others") that they absolutely and totally need to drop a big name like Hugh Syme.

[Kotowboy]

Syme is definitely Greedo... I mean Greedy... I mean.. .Greedo.

[pg1067]

I certainly hope that Petrucci is at least AWARE of the problems everyone has had with Hugh and isn't completely in the dark about how sloppy and lazy his recent efforts have been.

Everyone?  Everyone?  Some number of vocal critics is not the same as "everyone."

I like to think that Petrucci messaged HS something like " The D/T artwork is great - but come on man it's just two stock images composited.. We're paying you top dollar. "

I very much doubt this - but maybe HS does it for a massively reduced fee and gets some % of the back end ? So he doesn't feel like turning in his best work ?

Or maybe HS responds, "John, that's a really strange thing for you to say given that it was done exactly to your specifications, and our deal is hardly 'top dollar.'"

[Kotowboy]

Ok cause Petrucci definitely said " just slap two stock images together " .

[gzarruk]

I like some of Hugh's covers (like the whole artwork of Clockwork Angels and Snakes & Arrows), but yeah, lately he has gotten pretty lazy (the watermarks in DT12) and it almost pisses me off that a big band like DT can't hire a younger, more hungry artist that would probably work his ass off for them.

They need to find their "Jimmy T" for the album artwork.

[kirksnosehair]

Most groups don't really give a shit about album artwork anymore and who can blame them? In the age of digital music album artwork is a dying art form.  I personally know two graphic artists who used to do dozens of album covers every year but they've both moved on to regular 9 to 5 day jobs because most groups just don't want to shell out good money for artwork that no one really gives a shit about.   


I mean, yeah, sure, there are some collectors who are still interested.  I know I still like to see good art on an album but in the last ten years especially album artwork has become an afterthought for most groups. 


If you think about it most eyes that are going to see it will be seeing it on a smartphone screen or the screen in their car.  What's the point of spending thousands of dollars to have an artist create an amazing album cover that's going to be presented to the end-user in a postage-stamp sized format?


At this point, the album name, band name and logo and some stock artwork is all I expect.  And I'm rarely disappointed.

[Buddyhunter1]

Most groups don't really give a shit about album artwork anymore and who can blame them? In the age of digital music album artwork is a dying art form.  I personally know two graphic artists who used to do dozens of album covers every year but they've both moved on to regular 9 to 5 day jobs because most groups just don't want to shell out good money for artwork that no one really gives a shit about.   


I mean, yeah, sure, there are some collectors who are still interested.  I know I still like to see good art on an album but in the last ten years especially album artwork has become an afterthought for most groups. 


If you think about it most eyes that are going to see it will be seeing it on a smartphone screen or the screen in their car.  What's the point of spending thousands of dollars to have an artist create an amazing album cover that's going to be presented to the end-user in a postage-stamp sized format?


At this point, the album name, band name and logo and some stock artwork is all I expect.  And I'm rarely disappointed.

Album artwork is still a huge deal. You just now need to prioritize simple, striking artwork that can be easily noticed and comprehended even when it's thumbnail-sized, rather than being super-detailed pieces that you need to view at full size to see what's going on and look like nothing from far away. Which has honestly always been the case (look at Dark Side of the Moon, arguably the most famous album cover ever), but it's more important than ever now for the reasons you've mentioned.

[Kotowboy]

Also by that logic - all bands should phone in ( no pun intended ) every album since kids only listen to them on their smartphone speakers whilst walking around in a group and talking

so whats the point ?

[ZirconBlue]

I would also think the resurgence in the popularity of vinyl would be pushing back against the "cover art doesn't matter" position.

[Ben_Jamin]

I certainly hope that Petrucci is at least AWARE of the problems everyone has had with Hugh and isn't completely in the dark about how sloppy and lazy his recent efforts have been.

I like to think that Petrucci messaged HS something like " The D/T artwork is great - but come on man it's just two stock images composited.. We're paying you top dollar. "

I very much doubt this - but maybe HS does it for a massively reduced fee and gets some % of the back end ? So he doesn't feel like turning in his best work ?

I think JP actually likes Hugh Symes style of copy paste.

[Architeuthis]

I would also think the resurgence in the popularity of vinyl would be pushing back against the "cover art doesn't matter" position.

Good point!  I'm seeing a lot more vinyl for sale, even at Walmart.  Last time I was there, I saw Rush 2112 probably from a hundred feet away.  It was $20..00 and included a holographic image of the logo inside.   

[jonny108]

Some tidbits from the Mike Mangini Interview with The Mistress Carrie Podcast

On the new DT album and his recording kit - "It's like nothing I've ever played...it's probably in my childhood that I played something like this, I don't want to give too much away because nobody knows yet...I'm going to try and do it with a lot less."

He says released in September, guitar and bass might be done, keyboards will be done if not done already.  Lyrics and vocals yet to be done and it's being mixed along the way as they can do that from DTHQ.

[gzarruk]

Some tidbits from the Mike Mangini Interview with The Mistress Carrie Podcast

On the new DT album and his recording kit - "It's like nothing I've ever played...it's probably in my childhood that I played something like this, I don't want to give too much away because nobody knows yet...I'm going to try and do it with a lot less."

He says released in September, guitar and bass might be done, keyboards will be done if not done already.  Lyrics and vocals yet to be done and it's being mixed along the way as they can do that from DTHQ.

On the first bolded part: I also got the impression he got an even smaller kit this time around, this might be a sort of confirmation for that.

Second bolded part: 

Third: So, most likely Jimmy T mixing it?

[pg1067]

On the new DT album and his recording kit - "It's like nothing I've ever played...it's probably in my childhood that I played something like this, I don't want to give too much away because nobody knows yet...I'm going to try and do it with a lot less."

Actual footage of Mangini in the studio:

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

Who's even in charge of the thing, anyway? I mean, when it comes to discussing the new artwork, does their manager ask them "guys, it's time to think about the cover art, I'm gonna give a call to Hugh Syme like last time, is that ok"?

As i recall from an interview, JP said that the music actually defines pretty much the artwork, for example in DoT the music was dark and heavy and the album cover art reflected that. But it didn't stop there he mentioned that the theme of the music followed the entire production, from stage presentation to all aspects of the live show. So i'm guessing he actually works along with Syme while he sends him bits and pieces from the music they are writing at that time.

[kirksnosehair]

Also by that logic - all bands should phone in ( no pun intended ) every album since kids only listen to them on their smartphone speakers whilst walking around in a group and talking

so whats the point ?

That's great logic because "all bands" are only listened to by "kids" on phones     

[Kotowboy]

Some tidbits from the Mike Mangini Interview with The Mistress Carrie Podcast

On the new DT album and his recording kit - "It's like nothing I've ever played...it's probably in my childhood that I played something like this, I don't want to give too much away because nobody knows yet...I'm going to try and do it with a lot less."

He says released in September, guitar and bass might be done, keyboards will be done if not done already.  Lyrics and vocals yet to be done and it's being mixed along the way as they can do that from DTHQ.

No but imagine if he did it with a 4 piece Ringo kit.

Bass Snare Hi Hat Ride Rack Tom Floor Tom.

[Lax]

I guess my favs are 6DOIT and MPT2:SFAM
Honestly I feel cringe for the other ones, I'd prefer a smoke cloud with just the name of the band to a stock photos collage

[IDontNotDoThings]

Some tidbits from the Mike Mangini Interview with The Mistress Carrie Podcast

On the new DT album and his recording kit - "It's like nothing I've ever played...it's probably in my childhood that I played something like this, I don't want to give too much away because nobody knows yet...I'm going to try and do it with a lot less."

He says released in September, guitar and bass might be done, keyboards will be done if not done already.  Lyrics and vocals yet to be done and it's being mixed along the way as they can do that from DTHQ.

I'm a bit confused at the wording of the bolded part. If he's saying that September 2021 is when the album will be released, it's a bit of a strange thing to say when we're only in February, but I imagine I'm misunderstanding something here.

[DoctorAction]

Some tidbits from the Mike Mangini Interview with The Mistress Carrie Podcast

On the new DT album and his recording kit - "It's like nothing I've ever played...it's probably in my childhood that I played something like this, I don't want to give too much away because nobody knows yet...I'm going to try and do it with a lot less."

He says released in September, guitar and bass might be done, keyboards will be done if not done already.  Lyrics and vocals yet to be done and it's being mixed along the way as they can do that from DTHQ.

No but imagine if he did it with a 4 piece Ringo kit.

Bass Snare Hi Hat Ride Rack Tom Floor Tom.

Love that kind of idea. Be interesting to see what he uses.

[Stadler]

I certainly hope that Petrucci is at least AWARE of the problems everyone has had with Hugh and isn't completely in the dark about how sloppy and lazy his recent efforts have been.

I like to think that Petrucci messaged HS something like " The D/T artwork is great - but come on man it's just two stock images composited.. We're paying you top dollar. "

I very much doubt this - but maybe HS does it for a massively reduced fee and gets some % of the back end ? So he doesn't feel like turning in his best work ?

You're not Wild Ranger, are you?       There are a LOT of claims in there with not a lot of backup.   "Opinion" is one thing, but when you're talking about the will and desires of two people you have potentially never met and most certainly haven't discussed this with, it's hard to take that with anything but a grain of salt.

[pg1067]

Ok cause Petrucci definitely said " just slap two stock images together " .

I'm sure he didn't, but that's rather obviously not the only possibility.  He could have said, for example, "I want a robotic hand holding a skull (sort of Hamlet style) against a background that is basically an overcast sky.  Put the Majesty logo on the robots arm and '137' on the skull."

You're not Wild Ranger, are you?

I've wondered the same thing.   

[Kotowboy]

Obviously I don't know what kind of deal Hugh Syme has with DT - but I hope that the band aren't paying a huge sum just for Syme to turn in work with lots of errors is all i'm saying.

I hope the band don't think they're getting great work - whilst we on the forum notice all the corner cutting and laziness.

I'd just feel bad for them is all.

[MirrorMask]

Ok cause Petrucci definitely said " just slap two stock images together " .

I'm sure he didn't, but that's rather obviously not the only possibility.  He could have said, for example, "I want a robotic hand holding a skull (sort of Hamlet style) against a background that is basically an overcast sky.  Put the Majesty logo on the robots arm and '137' on the skull."

Do they even go that far? I would assume that they have the requirements, such as "the Majesty logo has to be there", and in this case "we want 137 on the cover", but I would hardly be surprised if it was Syme's call WHERE to exactly place them.

Maybe there's a back and forth, he shows a draft, and the band makes some suggestions... that's how we got Iron Maiden's Dance of Death, the artist handed in a sketch to give an idea of where he was going, and the band was "wow great, this is it, this is the cover!" 

[pg1067]

Do they even go that far?

Maybe.  I don't know.  I won't purport to know what the relationship is like between the band or what sort of instructions are given to HS or whether the band shares the feelings of some, BUT NOT ALL, of the folks who post on DTF.  All I know is that there are many, many possibilities, ranging from, "just give us something cool," to "here's the album; give us something that fits," to "do exactly this, that, and this other thing."  I have little doubt, but don't know for sure, that there is some degree of, "hey, what do you think about this?"