DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)

[Lonk]

I never really understood why Jordan uses sheet music on stage. I can see the point while they write and record, everyone learns differently, but surely he knows all those 16's and 32's by heart by the time they hit the big stage. Personally I would just be super stressed trying to follow along to a note sheet in a blazingly fast song – if I knew the music anyway!

I would not be surprised if he doesn't remember everything note-by-note, and uses the sheet music as guides.

I had a discussion with some people in the past between memorizing music and reading it from sheet. At the end of the day is a matter of preference and previous training. Most classical musicians read from sheets, even if they know the music by heart.

[Ben_Jamin]

That's the way he's done it for years. He must be used to it by now.

Yeah, I know he's "always" done it this way, I just don't understand why! Wish someone could ask him about it one day.

You're expecting a person to remember all those notes and play them exactly like on the record.

Also, mostly all pianists play along to sheet music. They read and play, and I forgot what JR called it, buts it's fingerings as well. If you know fingerings you can look at the sheet music or anything else and play along easily.

Or, a better way to put it. We fans of Dream Theater consistently listen to the music. The bands do not, only when preparing for a tour. Even JP has said he has to look at videos and stuff to remember how or where he played that part. The sheet music helps jordan. I bet the other guys wish they could have sheet music...🤣🤣

[gzarruk]

All that has been said already + at least in the past he used to trigger all sorts of extra sounds and effects for their live shows (maybe he doesn't do as much now that they play with a click and backing tracks), so he kept notes in his sheet music as to when to play those.

He also goes through a thousand different patch changes in a show, so having it written definitely helps for that

And, obviously, he's a clasically trained pianist after all, they eat sheet music for breakfast.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I never really understood why Jordan uses sheet music on stage. I can see the point while they write and record, everyone learns differently, but surely he knows all those 16's and 32's by heart by the time they hit the big stage. Personally I would just be super stressed trying to follow along to a note sheet in a blazingly fast song – if I knew the music anyway!

I teach at a Conservatory, and for academically trained musicians having sheet music in front of you is the most common practice in the world even though you know the music by memory. Call it insurance if you will. And regarding JR specifically, he does not only have the "sheet music" per se in front of him but reminders of his keyboard assignments, such as the octave he programmed a specific sound in. As a keyboard player myself, that can get pretty complex so any sort of visual cue is always well appreciated.

[JLa]

for academically trained musicians having sheet music in front of you is the most common practice in the world even though you know the music by memory. Call it insurance if you will.

Yeah, makes sense. Now, I'm neither academically trained nor a professional musician by any means, but I spent roughly 15 years in a brass band. From personal experience, I either had to stick to the sheet, or not use it much at all. I found that if I looked away for a while I had a hard time figuring out where to pick up once my eyes returned to the sheet. Sure, the regular glance at the conductor was no problem, but if my eyes started wandering to the audience or whatever.. trouble.

Guessing Jordan does this better than what I did!

[Kotowboy]

I know it's basically like reading a book - fast readers can just scan an entire page and not go like " T....h......e.............c......a...r.......w....a...s "

It's the same for expert sight readers - they can scan the whole page and "read" the whole chart

My sight reading is terrible. I learned way too late so I was really slow at it.

[kirksnosehair]

Depending on the piece I almost always require sheet music to get me from point A to point B on a given song on the piano.  The biggest adjustment for me was learning how to read the bass and treble clefs simultaneously.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

for academically trained musicians having sheet music in front of you is the most common practice in the world even though you know the music by memory. Call it insurance if you will.

Yeah, makes sense. Now, I'm neither academically trained nor a professional musician by any means, but I spent roughly 15 years in a brass band. From personal experience, I either had to stick to the sheet, or not use it much at all. I found that if I looked away for a while I had a hard time figuring out where to pick up once my eyes returned to the sheet. Sure, the regular glance at the conductor was no problem, but if my eyes started wandering to the audience or whatever.. trouble.

Guessing Jordan does this better than what I did!

Jordan is definitely a monster in this area, but as far I'm concerned he's not reading it all. I've seen him play pleny of times without any sheet music and he's as precise and clean as ever.

[geeeemo]

If you watch him, it doesn't look like he is reading it much. I think the insurance explanation is the best and that there are places to let him know what to change and buttons to push. If I played a piece from memory, but had the sheet music, it was the insurance thing. Frankly the playing is usually faster than what is comfortable reading, and I bet this is magnified by a lot the way he plays!

[Ben_Jamin]

If you watch him, it doesn't look like he is reading it much. I think the insurance explanation is the best and that there are places to let him know what to change and buttons to push. If I played a piece from memory, but had the sheet music, it was the insurance thing. Frankly the playing is usually faster than what is comfortable reading, and I bet this is magnified by a lot the way he plays!

I like when he said..."And these are notes..."

[The Letter M]

From Mike on FB:

My drums for DT15 are complete. This is a long post, but for those of you just like me who need positive inspiration more than ever, this is for you:

I've not played on an album this energetically unrelenting start to finish since Annihilator. But the wild thing is the amount of vintage DT melody weaved on to that kind of energy. I've never tapped into more advanced uses of my old and new chops in musical ways because of a monumentally collaborative effort of 5 like-minded, organic/evolving individuals. Is it from the forced lockdown like other music I've heard released? Maybe. Is it from nobody individually or collectively trying to do anything specific musically except just play and be a daring 19-year-old again? Probably. I never say that any new album is better than another. It never seems to be to me after reading, "this is our best blah blah blah." What I'm communicating is exactly what it is about DT15 that sticks out as being significant and important to me. Better? That's pointless given so many different tastes. Who cares.

However, it's really cool that the band and individuals can keep progressing at this career stage. But we're supposed to given how we're defined. Accordingly, there's all the "familiarity" one needs in this new music, but it's definitely not the same old fills/chords/beats. Besides, what could be more boring than a defined "progressive" musician not being creative, dynamic, and growing physically and creatively from album to album? That would be kinda like a poker machine spitting out the same hands game after game, year after year.

Earning good mechanics is a great thing as it pertains to consistency and avoiding playing poorly. But A TRUE machine is a thing that doesn't grow. That's OK unless your thing, your claim, is to be a "progressive" musician. We strive to "complete" who we are even though nobody can fully "complete" everything. No creative growth truly defines and = a "BOT" so to speak. DT15 is no such thing and I'm excited to report back with so much joy. BTW: I took used items from the session for my store.

-Marc.

[Zydar]

"Energetically unrelenting" makes me think of a full-on metal album in the works, like Train Of Thought.

[Max Kuehnau]

From Mike on FB:

My drums for DT15 are complete. This is a long post, but for those of you just like me who need positive inspiration more than ever, this is for you:

I've not played on an album this energetically unrelenting start to finish since Annihilator. But the wild thing is the amount of vintage DT melody weaved on to that kind of energy. I've never tapped into more advanced uses of my old and new chops in musical ways because of a monumentally collaborative effort of 5 like-minded, organic/evolving individuals. Is it from the forced lockdown like other music I've heard released? Maybe. Is it from nobody individually or collectively trying to do anything specific musically except just play and be a daring 19-year-old again? Probably. I never say that any new album is better than another. It never seems to be to me after reading, "this is our best blah blah blah." What I'm communicating is exactly what it is about DT15 that sticks out as being significant and important to me. Better? That's pointless given so many different tastes. Who cares.

However, it's really cool that the band and individuals can keep progressing at this career stage. But we're supposed to given how we're defined. Accordingly, there's all the "familiarity" one needs in this new music, but it's definitely not the same old fills/chords/beats. Besides, what could be more boring than a defined "progressive" musician not being creative, dynamic, and growing physically and creatively from album to album? That would be kinda like a poker machine spitting out the same hands game after game, year after year.

Earning good mechanics is a great thing as it pertains to consistency and avoiding playing poorly. But A TRUE machine is a thing that doesn't grow. That's OK unless your thing, your claim, is to be a "progressive" musician. We strive to "complete" who we are even though nobody can fully "complete" everything. No creative growth truly defines and = a "BOT" so to speak. DT15 is no such thing and I'm excited to report back with so much joy. BTW: I took used items from the session for my store.

-Marc.

thanks bruv. I'll add it in right away. Lovely post by Mike too.

[Kotowboy]

 

If it mixes the classic DT of Distance Over Time with the kinda weirdness of Six Degrees that'd be ace.

[Ben_Jamin]

If it mixes the classic DT of Distance Over Time with the kinda weirdness of Six Degrees that'd be ace.

I agree, that would be neat.

Based on Mangini's feelings and what he says he gained from making this album, this got me really excited and anticipating to what he means by Unrelenting. If he is doing new stuff, and there was no Musical direction, just 5 guys in room jamming. This could possibly be better than D/T...

Sign me up for the Pre-order boxset...

[gzarruk]

I just can't wait for more updates on the album. Hopefully the live Q&A they'll do after the Budokan streaming will have at least some news about it.

[hefdaddy42]

Just saw that on Facebook. Very exciting!

[Max Kuehnau]

I just can't wait for more updates on the album. Hopefully the live Q&A they'll do after the Budokan streaming will have at least some news about it.

In which case, would someone please post them here for me to add them in afterwards? I'd much appreciate it. I'm unable to watch the show and the Q/A sadly. (plus I'm not willing to pay this much for it.) 

[Madman Shepherd]

If it mixes the classic DT of Distance Over Time with the kinda weirdness of Six Degrees that'd be ace.

I agree, that would be neat.

Based on Mangini's feelings and what he says he gained from making this album, this got me really excited and anticipating to what he means by Unrelenting. If he is doing new stuff, and there was no Musical direction, just 5 guys in room jamming. This could possibly be better than D/T...

Sign me up for the Pre-order boxset...

Me too! We can expect it about 3 months after the album is released.

[Max Kuehnau]

If it mixes the classic DT of Distance Over Time with the kinda weirdness of Six Degrees that'd be ace.

I agree, that would be neat.

Based on Mangini's feelings and what he says he gained from making this album, this got me really excited and anticipating to what he means by Unrelenting. If he is doing new stuff, and there was no Musical direction, just 5 guys in room jamming. This could possibly be better than D/T...

Sign me up for the Pre-order boxset...

what Mike may (may!) mean by unrelenting is full force, no holds barred action. (English isn't my first language, although my German (which is) is far worse. Sorry about possibly being inexact.)

[evilasiojr]

Yeah, I didn't get "unrelenting" as a reference to a full on metal album necessarily. I got it as he worked really hard and with all of his energy on the album, with no space for lack of energy or creativity.

[devieira73]

"I've not played on an album this energetically unrelenting start to finish since Annihilator."
I think he was referring specifically to his performance as a drummer, although I do think this kind of performance can be associated to a lot of styles in drumming, not necessarily only to metal.

[jonny108]

I vaguely remember Jordan saying in an interview that they did have a direction/plan for the album as they do for most albums.  Maybe the direction this time was "let's jam and see what happens".

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

I wonder this time how the people from the record label were involved in the direction of the album. On previous interviews they mentioned that they are more relaxed listening to other people's opinion about their music.

[Kotowboy]

As long as they still sound like Dream Theater and not every other djenty tech band going i'm fine.

[gzarruk]

As long as they still sound like Dream Theater and not every other djenty tech band going i'm fine.

I think this quote guarantees us it will still sound like DT:

I've not played on an album this energetically unrelenting start to finish since Annihilator. But the wild thing is the amount of vintage DT melody weaved on to that kind of energy.

[KevShmev]

Of course it will sound like Dream Theater.  It will sound like what Dream Theater sounds like in 2021.

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that they would turn to  djent or anything, just wondering if JP is now open in discussing the direction and theme of every other album with people outside the band. DoT was kinda the release of a build up after TA and now they are called to create the next big step for them..personally speaking I'd like to see how this experience have shaped things and what would set it apart from DoT.

[darkshade]

Is this like fearing BC&SL was going to a goth-metal album when Jordan once stated "We're entering the gothic territory" before the said album's release?

and then it was a few of the black metal inspired parts of one song on the album?

[IgnotusPerIgnotium]

Yeah on that Omnisphere demo I believe when he played the choir patch or something..The djent thing was mentioned after JP said he'd like to have the 8-string ready for the next album and not so from some 'creative' idea from an outsider..If the new music is as heavy as DoT it's fine by me, as long as there are elements that set it apart in a cool way.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Of course it will sound like Dream Theater.  It will sound like what Dream Theater sounds like in 2021.

Dream Theater is, by far, the most instantly recognizable band in progressive metal today and I'm willing to debate this with anyone who disagrees. Even if they go in a full-modern-metal-djent-rampage they are still going to sound like themselves.

[Ben_Jamin]

Going from my response in the D/T thread...

This is how I see the band now...

The band has found a style that they all gel in, and they feel like staying in and exploring it, rather than dipping their toes in it, getting a taste of it's warm and relaxing and even therapeutic quality, and then getting pulled out and moving on to the next one. And I feel they did that with their Self-Titled album. That is the album that truly defined the present day Dream Theater sound and style.

They were forced to leave their current hot springs, as it decided to ease the overload of the crowd, and chose them to leave the spring (MP's departure). So the band, found a new hot spring (Mangini), and dipped their toes in it (ADTOE), basked in it (DT), and now quite enjoy it (D/T). The decision they enjoy the spring is after JP decided to make something to eat, and the band stepped out to make some BBQ (The Astonishing) before going back into the Hot Spring....

Which is where we are with DT15. And it is looking like they are really benefitting from basking in this Hot Spring.

[Kotowboy]

Yep - I can totally hear DT15 being like Distance Over Time - but a bit more progressive, experimental, possibly more heavy like Train of Thought

and maybe an epic again. Although the last one I fully enjoyed was Count Of Tuscany. But even then it was no Octavarium.

[Ben_Jamin]

Yep - I can totally hear DT15 being like Distance Over Time - but a bit more progressive, experimental, possibly more heavy like Train of Thought

and maybe an epic again. Although the last one I fully enjoyed was Count Of Tuscany. But even then it was no Octavarium.

Me too, I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up like that.

I would want it to be a mix of Room 137 heavy, with At Wit's End epicness sound, and more of the Pale Blue Dot intro time signature type riffs.

[Kotowboy]

With the production of the recent Christmas medley - just with a touch more reverb !