Thomas Lang discusses Dream Theater Audition

[Dublagent66]

LOL, "So you didn't feel like you were dating MP's ex-girlfriend?"  How original. 

[gzarruk]

Even though I think Mangini was and still is the best option, I would've loved to see Bobby Jarzombek audition, too bad things didn't work out with his schedule.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Couple of observations:

1. Hate the interviewer. What an unbelievable prick.

2. I looooove Thomas Lang. Always have, always will. He's an incredible drummer and he's one of my top 5. I really liked the sincerity and professionalism but as bosk said a couple of things don't kinda match at all, like the 4-piece kit thing. I mean, Thomas is known for playing big kits (even two sets of electronic Roland V-Drums at a time, as it happens), so it doesn't really make lots of sense if he states he would've probably played a smaller kit "to reduce costs and soundcheck times" to play with a band that actually makes use of big drum kits and has no issues economically to make certain things happen. DT has the infrastructure to travel with *big* loads of equipment, so that's not really a problem. I felt that was more of a "maybe the guys and I were in completely different places musically and personally" (which would've been super valid and understandable) than anything else. Not bashing Thomas at all, but there's that.

3. I loved his "we are all friends" comment. That's something I've never heard Marco say, and that tells us a lot of the audition process and it also states how important DT is in the overall rock/metal/progressive scene. Basically, all these top-of-the-food-chain drummers were invited to audition and most of them pretty much auditioned. That's a big deal.

4. I sometimes find it hard to believe when the drummers from the audition go like "I was not really familiar with their music and what they did when they asked me, so I wasn't sure". Maybe it's true, but basically most (or all) of these drummers have performed in a music scene where Dream Theater has been at the top of for quite some time. Of course none of them were die hard fans and that's cool, but that kinda undermines the band quite a bit.

Also, shit went down 10 years ago. The rest of the drummers probably want to put all this to rest by now, without an annoying ass asking them something along the lines of: "do you feel you were dating MP's ex-girlfriend"?

[Anxiety35]

I wonder how many drummers take a gig because it's a good gig, not necessarily because they want it or the really like the music. The gig helps them gain exposure and looks good on a resume and thus, they get more work that pays.

I think DT wanted Mangini all along but they had to do their due diligence just to make sure someone else was or was not right for the job. Then the record company or management or whoever says it's a good idea to document auditions for bringing in whoever would be the guy. It's good marketing and it got other drummers some exposure.

Mangini seems more "Dream Theater" than the other guys if you know what I mean. Donati seems it somewhat. Lang, Marco, Roddy, Wildoer, & Priester don't seem "Dream Theater" at all to me.

I've always thought that a Donati, Rudess, & Petrucci collab would be pretty cool.

[bosk1]

Well, we need to keep in mind that nobody would have been a "perfect" fit for all fans, and that anyone replacing Portnoy would be offputting for some.  But on balance, I felt and the time, and still do feel, that Mangini was by far the best choice out there.  Of the others who auditioned:

-Donati:  I think he would have fit in just fine.  He knows and likes the music, he can play it both in terms of being faithful to the originals AND in terms of bringing his own style and deviating from the originals.  And from what I can tell as an outsider, it didn't seem like there would be any chemistry issues. 

-Lang:  Definitely had the chops.  His personality is a bit quirky and different, but I didn't necessarily see it as an obstacle.  He is musically very literate and seems like he could write and jam the way they like to.  Seems like it could have worked.  It seems like this gig was not exactly what he was looking for, but it also seems like if he got it, he would have taken it, and it appears he and the band could have adapted to one another easily enough.

-Minneman:  Definitely has the drumming and musical chops.  But I'm not sure he fit in personality-wise, and based on his own comments, I don't get the impression he would have been committed to remaining with them long-term.  So I don't see him working.

-Roddy:  Has some GREAT drumming chops.  But doesn't appear to be a good fit and doesn't appear to have wanted it.  And by his own admission, he was not comfortable writing and jamming the way the band prefers.  With great respect for him, I have to say that he was not a great fit for the band.  Not to slag his playing at all.  It just wouldn't have been a good fit.

-Wildoer:  This is an interesting one.  He is most known for playing in a different style.  But he knows and appreciates DT's music, and showed that he can play it faithfully.  The chemistry also seems to have been good.  If he would have been willing to relocate to the U.S., I could see this as working, even though it may have felt quite different to the fans for awhile.  I don't know that he would have been as easily accepted, since he is not a big name and not known in the genre. 

-Priester:  I unfairly bashed the suggestion of him even being one of the drummers prior to the reveal.  But his playing and his attitude impressed me quite a bit.  Despite that the way the video was edited, and it gave the impression that he couldn't quite nail The Dance of Eternity, I think he could absolutely play that and fit in musically.  He has the playing chops.  And his overall attitude and humble personality are really refreshing.  But I'm not sure he would have been a good fit either in terms of chemistry and writing.

I wish we could have seen Bobby J. audition as well.  I have no idea whether he would be a good fit for the band.  But he absolutely has the drumming chops to play the music, and I LOVE his drumming style. 

[Adami]

I've said before that Lang was by far my favorite. That said, it IS a matter of fit.

I am not familiar with Roddy or Priester very much, so outside of them, Mangini is probably my least favorite of the group. I just enjoy Lang, Donati, Minneman and Wildoer more and how they approach music.

That said, the fit is interesting. I think for DT in the 90's and 2000's? Lang would have been great. For LTE? Minneman for sure. For just JR going nuts? Donati. And obviously James makes great use of Wildoer.

But for the music DT have been writing since Portnoy left? It's Mangini.

I think current DT would make Minneman and definitely Donati feel creatively stifled. I think they'd both have to hold back SO much that it would make them leave. Lang I think just missed his chance. He and DT just a bit earlier would have been a fantastic match, but not so much now. DT's current music (to me) is just so sterile, precise, technical, and controlled that I doubt the other drummers would've enjoyed it as much.

[devieira73]

Just for curiosity, the drum kit Thomas used in his last solo album (it's not giant, but far from a 4 piece):
https://youtu.be/3CoBUb7EyJM
Aquilles playing DoE perfectly (to me, he was clearly nervous on audition):
https://youtu.be/pWpPNBk3ftU

[Adami]

Also I just heard Mangini say that the only he has so many drums is to play old DT songs the way they are on the record, and that if he had his way, his kit would be quite a bit smaller than it is now.

[bosk1]

Just for curiosity, the drum kit Thomas used in his last solo album (it's not giant, but far from a 4 piece):
https://youtu.be/3CoBUb7EyJM

I almost felt like he was saying that just to screw with the interviewer a little bit.  It is kind of an odd comment, given how he plays and the gear he uses.

Aquilles playing DoE perfectly (to me, he was clearly nervous on audition):
https://youtu.be/pWpPNBk3ftU

Yeah, I've seen that video.  He does a fantastic job.  Going back to the drummer audition videos, I personally feel like their handling of him is the one area where they maybe went wrong.  I think they should have omitted the part about him making mistakes altogether.  Just leave it out.  It isn't necessary.  I'm sure that, aside from the little flub on TDOE, he played fantastically.  But by mentioning that, and showing how bad he felt about it, it not only amplifies that in the minds of the audience, but I feel it also amplifies the little things that didn't work for a couple of the other drummers as well.  Other than Roddy, who was upset for reasons beyond anyone's real control, I think it would have been a much better P/R piece for everyone involved--the band and all the drummers--if they had left that and a couple of other things like that out of the video.  I get it that they also wanted to make it feel like Mike Mangini was the obvious best choice, but I think that still could have been done without mentioning, even momentarily in passing, little flaws with others' playing or approaches.  If I'm their manager at that time, I push REALLY hard to make sure it comes out with that kind of tone.  I mean, still, it's not like it was negative at all.  But given that fans nitpick every little thing, I think that going out of the way to make sure it had a really completely positive spin on all seven drummers would have been a better approach. 

[bosk1]

Also I just heard Mangini say that the only he has so many drums is to play old DT songs the way they are on the record, and that if he had his way, his kit would be quite a bit smaller than it is now.

He did say "smaller," but I don't think "quite a bit" is accurate.  He only specifically mentioned the rototoms.  And putting his comment together with other things he has said, I'm guessing that, and maybe some of the effects cymbals, would be the only things to go--at least, from his current setup (he did eliminate some drums from the older DT versions of his kit).

[Adami]

Also I just heard Mangini say that the only he has so many drums is to play old DT songs the way they are on the record, and that if he had his way, his kit would be quite a bit smaller than it is now.

He did say "smaller," but I don't think "quite a bit" is accurate.  He only specifically mentioned the rototoms.  And putting his comment together with other things he has said, I'm guessing that, and maybe some of the effects cymbals, would be the only things to go--at least, from his current setup (he did eliminate some drums from the older DT versions of his kit).

Perhaps, but he's also already shrinking the kit. Now has one kick drum, few less extra things etc.

I'm good with it, I just wanted to point out that MM wants a smaller kit too, so it's not some insane thing to say a smaller kit would work.

[MoraWintersoul]

3. I loved his "we are all friends" comment. That's something I've never heard Marco say, and that tells us a lot of the audition process and it also states how important DT is in the overall rock/metal/progressive scene. Basically, all these top-of-the-food-chain drummers were invited to audition and most of them pretty much auditioned. That's a big deal.

4. I sometimes find it hard to believe when the drummers from the audition go like "I was not really familiar with their music and what they did when they asked me, so I wasn't sure". Maybe it's true, but basically most (or all) of these drummers have performed in a music scene where Dream Theater has been at the top of for quite some time. Of course none of them were die hard fans and that's cool, but that kinda undermines the band quite a bit.

Yeah these are mostly my thoughts. Lang made more sense to me than Marco. And I think that for professional musicians, being familiar with the music is a much higher bar than "have heard it/listened to it", so over time that sentence stopped bothering me.

[PetFish]

4. I sometimes find it hard to believe when the drummers from the audition go like "I was not really familiar with their music and what they did when they asked me, so I wasn't sure".

"I had some drums and 2 sticks... so what the fuck."

[devieira73]

Aquilles playing DoE perfectly (to me, he was clearly nervous on audition):
https://youtu.be/pWpPNBk3ftU

Yeah, I've seen that video.  He does a fantastic job.  Going back to the drummer audition videos, I personally feel like their handling of him is the one area where they maybe went wrong.  I think they should have omitted the part about him making mistakes altogether.  Just leave it out.  It isn't necessary.  I'm sure that, aside from the little flub on TDOE, he played fantastically.  But by mentioning that, and showing how bad he felt about it, it not only amplifies that in the minds of the audience, but I feel it also amplifies the little things that didn't work for a couple of the other drummers as well.

I also felt bad for Aquilles the way he was exposed there...but, I'm happy that I saw (or read) some interview with Aquilles from 2 or 3 years ago, where the interviewer asked him if he was bothered with the way he appeared in the audition, he replied, very honestly, "no, not at all!" and added that, after the audition documentary, the doors opened much more for him and he cited that the opportunity to play with Tony MacAlpine came directly by an indication of DT (more specifically from Rudess, I think). So it seemed to me really pleased with the end result of that audition.

[Dedalus]

Non-musical issues are even more important than musical ones. Musically, Marco Minnemann fits perfectly into DT, but I don't know if Marco is a good choice for any full time band except The Aristocrats.

Personally, I'd been considered that the best choices from a musical and extra musical point of view were Lang, Magini and Wildoer. I was wrong about Lang, as is now clear.

[gzarruk]

Aquilles playing DoE perfectly (to me, he was clearly nervous on audition):
https://youtu.be/pWpPNBk3ftU

Yeah, I've seen that video.  He does a fantastic job.  Going back to the drummer audition videos, I personally feel like their handling of him is the one area where they maybe went wrong.  I think they should have omitted the part about him making mistakes altogether.  Just leave it out.  It isn't necessary.  I'm sure that, aside from the little flub on TDOE, he played fantastically.  But by mentioning that, and showing how bad he felt about it, it not only amplifies that in the minds of the audience, but I feel it also amplifies the little things that didn't work for a couple of the other drummers as well.

I also felt bad for Aquilles the way he was exposed there...but, I'm happy that I saw (or read) some interview with Aquilles from 2 or 3 years ago, where the interviewer asked him if he was bothered with the way he appeared in the audition, he replied, very honestly, "no, not at all!" and added that, after the audition documentary, the doors opened much more for him and he cited that the opportunity to play with Tony MacAlpine came directly by an indication of DT (more specifically from Rudess, I think). So it seemed to me really pleased with the end result of that audition.

It was Petrucci.

[goo-goo]

I wish we could have seen Bobby J. audition as well.  I have no idea whether he would be a good fit for the band.  But he absolutely has the drumming chops to play the music, and I LOVE his drumming style.

Another Bobby J fan over here! Would have been really interesting for sure Jarzombek would have accepted the audition invite.

[bosk1]

I wish we could have seen Bobby J. audition as well.  I have no idea whether he would be a good fit for the band.  But he absolutely has the drumming chops to play the music, and I LOVE his drumming style.

Another Bobby J fan over here! Would have been really interesting for sure Jarzombek would have accepted the audition invite.

His setup in this video intrigues me:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nqRa4BiEEA  The heavy use of the cowbell, but then the alternating to the ride and hi-hat highlights how he keeps all his ride sources close together on his left, which, coupled with his open-hand style, makes his movements between ride sources incredibly quick and efficient.  But it's also interesting how he has the two crashes behind him.  I haven't seen that before, but it's cool how he has them positioned so that he barely has to move his arms to hit them--they are just far enough for a good windup to get a big impact, but still very close in.  He really likes to keep his entire kit close, which contributes to a lot of efficiency of movement.

And this is classic Bobby with classic Fates setup:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zotL6StW9c4

[goo-goo]

I wish we could have seen Bobby J. audition as well.  I have no idea whether he would be a good fit for the band.  But he absolutely has the drumming chops to play the music, and I LOVE his drumming style.

Another Bobby J fan over here! Would have been really interesting for sure Jarzombek would have accepted the audition invite.

His setup in this video intrigues me:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nqRa4BiEEA  The heavy use of the cowbell, but then the alternating to the ride and hi-hat highlights how he keeps all his ride sources close together on his left, which, coupled with his open-hand style, makes his movements between ride sources incredibly quick and efficient.  But it's also interesting how he has the two crashes behind him.  I haven't seen that before, but it's cool how he has them positioned so that he barely has to move his arms to hit them--they are just far enough for a good windup to get a big impact, but still very close in.  He really likes to keep his entire kit close, which contributes to a lot of efficiency of movement.

And this is classic Bobby with classic Fates setup:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zotL6StW9c4

Bosk1: Have you checked out Zierler - ESC released in 2015? Features Bobby J in drums and it's great stuff. This one is a bit more on the melodic metal side but it was one of my favorite releases in 2015.

[Setlist Scotty]

Going back to the drummer audition videos, I personally feel like their handling of him is the one area where they maybe went wrong.  I think they should have omitted the part about him making mistakes altogether.  Just leave it out.  It isn't necessary.  I'm sure that, aside from the little flub on TDOE, he played fantastically.  But by mentioning that, and showing how bad he felt about it, it not only amplifies that in the minds of the audience, but I feel it also amplifies the little things that didn't work for a couple of the other drummers as well.  Other than Roddy, who was upset for reasons beyond anyone's real control, I think it would have been a much better P/R piece for everyone involved--the band and all the drummers--if they had left that and a couple of other things like that out of the video.  I get it that they also wanted to make it feel like Mike Mangini was the obvious best choice, but I think that still could have been done without mentioning, even momentarily in passing, little flaws with others' playing or approaches.  If I'm their manager at that time, I push REALLY hard to make sure it comes out with that kind of tone.  I mean, still, it's not like it was negative at all.  But given that fans nitpick every little thing, I think that going out of the way to make sure it had a really completely positive spin on all seven drummers would have been a better approach.

I agree. In hindsight, what would've been really nice is if they would've done a series of half hour episodes, one for each drummer so that we would have gotten a better overall feel, including more of them jamming and actual performances, rather than the brief excerpts with selective editing that we got. Still glad that they did the videos, but it could've been done better.