Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album

[Super Dude]

It had Chapman stick, it had the incredible instrumental Hell's Kitchen, greats hooks, soul (see Anna Lee), and it had Derek mf'ing Sherinian. Discuss.

[Anxiety35]

I respectfully disagree. While I really like FII, it isn't DT's last truly great album.

Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is. I could also argue for Octavarium.

Let's see where this thread takes us. 

[Cool Chris]

This is the least accurate thread subject I have seen in my ~10 years here.

Your criteria is very questionable and limited.

1) One instrument used on one song.
2) One great instrumental, which, even if great, is one song out of a total of 11 total.
3) Great hooks - largely subjective.
4) Soul - again subjective. Having "soul" doesn't make a song any better or more enjoyable. 
5) The least talented musician they've had in their line-up, and one they didn't even want for another album.

[Super Dude]

Nice to see you again too, Chris. No, I was just giving examples. And actually, soul is important, which is to say albums like 8VM and the ST are devoid of anything I would call a heart. It's just general wankery. Compare FII, which has soaring vocal harmonies, one of Petrucci's most emotive solos apart from Voices, and the gradual building awesomeness that is BMS-HK-LitS.

Don't get me wrong - I think Awake was miles better. But FII is the last album of theirs that still wows me every time I listen to it.

[Cool Chris]

Hello SD. I was thinking about you recently while having a conversation with Adami about Israel and I recalled you being the other forum Jewish resident(?) and I wasn't sure if you still posted here.

I was just commenting that your examples were thin and subjective, regardless of whether or not I agreed with them (I don't). If you feel it has "heart" I won't argue with you if that is how you identify with the album. 9 times out of 10 I'd rather have good song-writing than heart. All other DT albums have more of the former than FII does. 

[Super Dude]

If you say so. Which, in your view, is the last great album?

As for my being here, I'm kind of tired of Reddit. I probably still won't be a regular again, but I plan to pop in every so often.

[Cool Chris]

What does Reddit have to do with this forum? Disclaimer, I don't know anything about Reddit.

Hmm... I would say ADToE is great, there is a noticeable drop-off with DT12, and I like TA quite a bit, but can't quite put it in the "great" category.

I apologize for being snarky. You came out with a strong opinion and I came back with mine unnecessarily strong.

[NoseofNicko]

Yeah it's pretty great for a band's second weakest album.

[Super Dude]

What does Reddit have to do with this forum? Disclaimer, I don't know anything about Reddit.

Hmm... I would say ADToE is great, there is a noticeable drop-off with DT12, and I like TA quite a bit, but can't quite put it in the "great" category.

I apologize for being snarky. You came out with a strong opinion and I came back with mine unnecessarily strong.

Oh, Reddit is kind of like a huge forum so I focused most of my social media energy there. Anyway, no worries - this is DTF, we know drama.

Definitely agree that DT12 was a huge drop-off. It's because of that album that I no longer consider myself a fan per se.

[MirrorMask]

If you say so. Which, in your view, is the last great album?

The Astonishing.

And Hell's Kitchen is good, but let's call it for what it is: a middle section of a song that didn't fit or flow with the rest of said song, correctly lifted from said song, and with the best part of this instrumental written specifically to tie in with the following song on the album.

[TheCountOfNYC]

FII is my least favorite DT album so I have to disagree.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Does that mean that SFAM isn't truly great, because I can't even process that.

I don't even find FII to be a great album. My least favorite album of theirs, other than WDADU.

[TAC]

Yeah it's pretty great for a band's second weakest album.

[Architeuthis]

I don't get how people say DT12 is a soul-less album. It actually has some of DT's most soulful moments. The Bigger Picture, Along For The Ride, Illumination Theory have more soul than anything off FII.   
When people say DT12 is a drop-off, I completely disagree! It's in my top 3 DT albums.
FII is my least favorite DT album, even though I still like it..

[KevShmev]

Welcome back to the forum, Derek.

[dparrott]

Yeah it's pretty great for a band's second weakest album.

This.
And SFAM has Jordan!  I was blown away by him on that album.

[Super Dude]

Welcome back to the forum, Derek.

[Lonk]

FFI is a pretty awesome album. Trial of Tears, Peruvian skies and Lines in the Sand are some pretty solid songs. With that said, FFI is not even in the top 5 for DT in albums that were released after 1999. There could be an argument that their last great album was Six degrees or Octavarium. But I feel that people under appreciate Dramatic turn of Evebts and self titled album. The melodic lines in Surrender to Reason, Bigger Picture and This is the Life are some of DTs best. Here is my top list for Albums released after FFI:

Six Degrees
Metropolis pt 2
Octavarium
DT12
Systematic Chaos
Train of Thoughts
FFI

[PixelDream]

I think SFAM is a notch above FII, and on some days I feel SDOIT is even better than SFAM. And then Train of Thought is such a badass record with enough majestic beauty throughout the songs. That's an album where I feel Jordan Rudess really IS amazing. The grand piano on that album is sublime.

When Octavarium came out I was impressed by a lot of the tracks, but the production began to show some mistakes (the undermixed guitar solos), although that album has a few of my favorites like The Root of All Evil, These Walls and of course the epic Octavarium.

Gun against my head, I'd say Train of Thought was the last truly, great, classic DT album.

[Cool Chris]

Welcome back to the forum, Derek.

[gzarruk]

I don't get how people say DT12 is a soul-less album. It actually has some of DT's most soulful moments. The Bigger Picture, Along For The Ride, Illumination Theory have more soul than anything off FII.   
When people say DT12 is a drop-off, I completely disagree! It's in my top 3 DT albums.
FII is my least favorite DT album, even though I still like it..

This!

FII is not bad at all, but it's still one of my least favorite DT albums.

Last great DT album? The Astonishing.

[Renzo]

Actually FII is the only case in which my least favourite album from a band happens to be enjoyable (and original too).

Last great DT album? The Astonishing.

Yes!!
And also.. DT12 is amazing 

[SwedishGoose]

I'm another one who thinks the last great album DT have released is The Astonishing.

FII is good but not one of the top DT albums...

[Super Dude]

I'm not as surprised by the relative dislike of FII as I am of the love for The Astonishing.

[Dream Team]

Was it mushrooms, LSD, or something I haven't heard of yet?

[Peter Mc]

Some great songs (Peruvian Skies, Trial Of Tears, Lines In The Sand and Hells Kitchen)
One very good one (New Millennium)
The rest are pretty average, even (dare I say it) boring by DT standards.

Patchy album for me but still probably 40 min plus of excellent stuff which is what most bands put out as a full album so can't complain.  Not as good as SFAM though so cannot be called their last great album imo.

[bosk1]

Truly great album?  Absolutely!  The "last" truly great DT album?  Not remotely.  At least 7 of the 9 that came after it are even greater, and some by a wide margin.  That doesn't take away from how good FII is.  It's just that they have done even better, and have done so MANY times over.

As for the specific examples, I don't really agree with most.

Chapman stick:  Okay.  Pretty cool.  But it doesn't really do much to make the album any more special.

Hell's Kitchen:  Perhaps the weakest instrumental on a studio album from them.  I'm not sure why they made it into a "song" once it was scrapped from Burning My Soul.

Great hooks:  Yeah.

Soul:  Sure.

Sherinian:  He did fine.  I like his contributions.  But he has always been my least favorite DT keyboardist.

[Lethean]

The Astonishing as the last great album for me as well.

I do love Hell's Kitchen though. Not more than the other instrumentals, but I think it's beautiful.

[Super Dude]

Truly great album?  Absolutely!  The "last" truly great DT album?  Not remotely.  At least 7 of the 9 that came after it are even greater, and some by a wide margin.  That doesn't take away from how good FII is.  It's just that they have done even better, and have done so MANY times over.

As for the specific examples, I don't really agree with most.

Chapman stick:  Okay.  Pretty cool.  But it doesn't really do much to make the album any more special.

Hell's Kitchen:  Perhaps the weakest instrumental on a studio album from them.  I'm not sure why they made it into a "song" once it was scrapped from Burning My Soul.

Great hooks:  Yeah.

Soul:  Sure.

Sherinian:  He did fine.  I like his contributions.  But he has always been my least favorite DT keyboardist.

I was wondering how long it'd be before you found your way here.

[The Walrus]

Bzzzzzzt! 6DOIT was peak DT.

[pg1067]

It had Chapman stick

A vaguely interesting novelty that really didn't add much.

it had the incredible instrumental Hell's Kitchen

I'll agree with that, but I would argue that it's no better than DT's fourth best instrumental.

greats hooks

I disagree.  For me, it's a largely unmemorable album.

soul (see Anna Lee)

I like Anna Lee just fine, but it's nothing great.

and it had Derek mf'ing Sherinian.

Whoop-de-f'ing-doo.

Here's the thing, even if I were to agree on all of the points you made, you haven't made a case why it's "the last truly great DT album."  Are you suggesting that SFAM and SDOIT aren't great?  Or are they "great" but not "truly great" (which would mean they're what..."falsely great")?  Ultimately, to say an album is or isn't "great" is nothing but a subjective opinion.  I generally think SFAM is DT's best album, but that doesn't mean I don't think several of their subsequent albums are "great."

As far a FII, I think it generally lacks balls and is mostly uninteresting.  I typically rank it in the bottom 3-4 DT albums.

[Pragmaticcircus]

Falling Into Infinity was actually the last truly great DT album

I fucking agree completely, this is actually something I've been saying for a long time.

[Super Dude]

Here's the thing, even if I were to agree on all of the points you made, you haven't made a case why it's "the last truly great DT album."  Are you suggesting that SFAM and SDOIT aren't great?  Or are they "great" but not "truly great" (which would mean they're what..."falsely great")?  Ultimately, to say an album is or isn't "great" is nothing but a subjective opinion.  I generally think SFAM is DT's best album, but that doesn't mean I don't think several of their subsequent albums are "great."

As far a FII, I think it generally lacks balls and is mostly uninteresting.  I typically rank it in the bottom 3-4 DT albums.

Interesting you should say that, because yeah, I do generally draw the line at SFAM. It's so...average. And every album since then has been one unadulterated wankfest after another. Being meh-tul or complex does not make the music intricate or interesting by necessity.

What made Awake interesting was how seamlessly DT had incorporated the then-current grunge sound into their prog metal repertoire. Now that is a fresh take. On the other hand, the self-titled sounds exactly like everything the band has done since at least 2005. I will say this at least for The Astonishing: it dared to be different. I may not like the result, but at least they tried to shake up the formula.

[ChuckSteak]

I respectfully disagree. While I really like FII, it isn't DT's last truly great album.

Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is. I could also argue for Octavarium.

Let's see where this thread takes us. 

This. Saved me the time to write it.

[pg1067]

Here's the thing, even if I were to agree on all of the points you made, you haven't made a case why it's "the last truly great DT album."  Are you suggesting that SFAM and SDOIT aren't great?  Or are they "great" but not "truly great" (which would mean they're what..."falsely great")?  Ultimately, to say an album is or isn't "great" is nothing but a subjective opinion.  I generally think SFAM is DT's best album, but that doesn't mean I don't think several of their subsequent albums are "great."

As far a FII, I think it generally lacks balls and is mostly uninteresting.  I typically rank it in the bottom 3-4 DT albums.

Interesting you should say that, because yeah, I do generally draw the line at SFAM. It's so...average. And every album since then has been one unadulterated wankfest after another. Being meh-tul or complex does not make the music intricate or interesting by necessity.

Well...you didn't really clarify what you're talking about.  Sounds like you're suggesting that an album is only "truly great" if it is somehow novel or unique or not like anything else in the artist's catalog.  As far as SFAM, like it or don't like it; think that FII is better if you want; but there's nothing even remotely "average" about SFAM.

What made Awake interesting was how seamlessly DT had incorporated the then-current grunge sound into their prog metal repertoire. Now that is a fresh take.

I don't think Awake is even remotely grungy (with the possible exception of Lie and The Mirror, neither of which I particularly like).  In fact, I would argue that FII is more "grungy," which makes sense given that they tried to write a more "commercial" album, and grunge was hot in the 90s.