What kind of album would you like DT14 to be?

[Kocak]

I want them to get an outside producer. Not Chycki, someone else. A fresh set of ears.
And I would like more Mangini involvement to have more creative rhythms.

Also, put the vocal arrangements centre-stage for once. I know that DT are known for instrumental performances, but you can still have great instrumental performance with stellar vocall arrangements.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I want them to get an outside producer. Not Chycki, someone else. A fresh set of ears.
And I would like more Mangini involvement to have more creative rhythms.

Also, put the vocal arrangements centre-stage for once. I know that DT are known for instrumental performances, but you can still have great instrumental performance with stellar vocall arrangements.

I hear you with the outside producer thing, it's something people around here have been wanting since the Systematic Chaos days. (11 years, can you believe that?)

But it's not happening. They're commercially successful and they're a band that have pretty much dialed in with their sound and their musicality (if 13 albums that for several people range from good to incredible aren't enough proof of that, I don't know what could be). It makes no sense whatsoever to bring someone in at this late stage of the game to produce Dream Theater because:

1) John Petrucci seems very comfortable being the producer and the rest of the guys seem pretty happy with his job given there's no reason to think otherwise.
2) They've been around for 30 years. They've been arguably the most successful progressive metal band that the genre has given and will probably give, and a big part of that success was garnered under the self-producing helm.

Also, I've noticed a lot of people in the internet saying as of late to "Stop the wankery! We want more melody! More piano! Vocals taking the lead!" Have people even listened to The Astonishing? Or maybe they like to pretend it doesn't exist because it was way too daring to present as a DT album?  Not making fun in any way of your vocal arrangements comment, but definitely I find it something worth discussing. The Astonishing is as vocal-centered and melodic as a DT album can get, and I don't think anyone could argue against that.

One point I resonate fully with you, though, is the Mangini involvement thing. I find it kind of underwhelming to have one of the world's most virtuosic and mathematically competent drummers and have him take the backseat for most of the creative process doesn't make a lot of sense to me. That being said, I have a nice feeling that the next album will feature a healthy dose of Mangini's technical and musical prowess because it's about damn time.

[SwedishGoose]

Also, I've noticed a lot of people in the internet saying as of late to "Stop the wankery! We want more melody! More piano! Vocals taking the lead!" Have people even listened to The Astonishing? Or maybe they like to pretend it doesn't exist because it was way too daring to present as a DT album?  Not making fun in any way of your vocal arrangements comment, but definitely I find it something worth discussing.

Soo much this..... The Astonishing is full of melody, full of piano and full of amazing vocal arrangements. To me at least it was all I ever wanted from DT and it became my favorite of theirs for these reasons and for the fantastic compositions with wonderful recurring themes (themes for each character etc...)....

[bosk1]

One point I resonate fully with you, though, is the Mangini involvement thing. I find it kind of underwhelming to have one of the world's most virtuosic and mathematically competent drummers and have him take the backseat for most of the creative process doesn't make a lot of sense to me. That being said, I have a nice feeling that the next album will feature a healthy dose of Mangini's technical and musical prowess because it's about damn time.

Yes, BUT his "lack of involvement" (or maybe, "lack of utilization during the writing stage" would be more accurate) does make sense in context.  For ADTOE it makes sense given where the band was and what was going on during that time, and Mangini didn't have a problem with it.  Then he was much more involved in DT12.  Had it not been for The Astonishing, I think we would have seen the trend on DT12 continue and expand.  It's just that TA was very unique in how JP approached it, and wanting only the two main composers involved in the writing.  Had that album come along 5 or 6 albums into the Mangini era instead of 3 albums in, I don't think it would have seemed like an issue.  It's just that, with it being only the third, we have a situation where Mangini was marginalized during the writing on 2 out of 3 albums.  I think if we could fast forward to 3 albums down the road from now, assuming he will have the involvement most of us expect, it won't seem like nearly as big a deal.

Of course, if he ends up NOT being utilized much in the writing process on the next album, that's a different story.

[Setlist Scotty]

It's just that, with it being only the third, we have a situation where Mangini was marginalized during the writing on 2 out of 3 albums.  I think if we could fast forward to 3 albums down the road from now, assuming he will have the involvement most of us expect, it won't seem like nearly as big a deal.

I follow what you're saying, and agree to a certain extent. But I can't help but wonder how much he's marginalized, as is evident by how his drums have sounded on each album. There was *never* a complaint about how MP's drums ever sounded, save for IaW. Granted, MP was a co-producer and probably ensured that his drums sounded great and prominent in the mix, but it seems that with MM not being JP's equal like MP was, even his drums are marginalized in the mix, just as has been the case with JM for a long time (save the s/t album).

That being said, do you (Bosk) or anyone else, know of some of the specific things MM actually contributed songwriting-wise to the s/t album? I don't recall any interviews where specifics were given, and it would be nice to know what some of his ideas were that made it on to the album.

[gzarruk]

That being said, do you (Bosk) or anyone else, know of some of the specific things MM actually contributed songwriting-wise to the s/t album? I don't recall any interviews where specifics were given, and it would be nice to know what some of his ideas were that made it on to the album.

I remember MM said on an interview that the crazy riff after the string section on Illumination Theory (the "mothers for their children" part) came from him. Also, I think they discussed around that time how much he and Myung worked together on many parts that ended up being used on the album, like the solo sections on The Looking Glass and Surrender to Reason.

Other than that, I don't think they've shared too much about the writing process of DT12. What we do know, though, is that last year Mangini was constantly writing material for both DT14 and some solo music he's working on. He posted about it quite a few times on social media, so I think it's safe to say he'll be very involved in the writing on the next album (unless they decide not to use his ideas, which would be a bummer).

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

One point I resonate fully with you, though, is the Mangini involvement thing. I find it kind of underwhelming to have one of the world's most virtuosic and mathematically competent drummers and have him take the backseat for most of the creative process doesn't make a lot of sense to me. That being said, I have a nice feeling that the next album will feature a healthy dose of Mangini's technical and musical prowess because it's about damn time.

Yes, BUT his "lack of involvement" (or maybe, "lack of utilization during the writing stage" would be more accurate) does make sense in context.  For ADTOE it makes sense given where the band was and what was going on during that time, and Mangini didn't have a problem with it.  Then he was much more involved in DT12.  Had it not been for The Astonishing, I think we would have seen the trend on DT12 continue and expand.  It's just that TA was very unique in how JP approached it, and wanting only the two main composers involved in the writing.  Had that album come along 5 or 6 albums into the Mangini era instead of 3 albums in, I don't think it would have seemed like an issue.  It's just that, with it being only the third, we have a situation where Mangini was marginalized during the writing on 2 out of 3 albums.  I think if we could fast forward to 3 albums down the road from now, assuming he will have the involvement most of us expect, it won't seem like nearly as big a deal.

Of course, if he ends up NOT being utilized much in the writing process on the next album, that's a different story.

I hear you, but sometimes I cannot help but think that The Astonishing could've been more interesting in the rhythmic department with more of Mangini's input (and this is coming from someone who loves TA with all of his being).

[Architeuthis]

I'd almost like to see DT do a hard rock/metal album with minimal keyboards. Still have them in there but not have the keys always do a solo just because there was a guitar solo. Use more continuum for soloing or Hammond/organ type sounds, but let the guitar take the front seat for soloing most of the time. I'd like to hear at least one song without keys at all and have a little fun by putting Jordan on rhythm guitar for a song or two live.
I love the keyboards and acoustic piano on TA though, that was refreshing from the usual DT formula.
Oh, and another thing. Record DT14 using ANALOG!!!  The new Styx album ( The Mission) is proof that analog sounds so good..

[AngelBack]

I'm at the point where I really don't think DT could release music I wouldn't love, whatever the style.

[gzarruk]

I'm at the point where I really don't think DT could release music I wouldn't love, whatever the style.

I agree, I love everything they've released so far (in 30+ years), so I'm pretty sure DT14 will be completely amazing 

[Lethean]

I really wouldn't want them to do a "hard rock" album. I'm sure they could if they wanted to and would do a fine job, but it's generally not my cup of tea.  And I don't want the keys to take a back seat either.  If it's for a song here or there - sure, and same for the guitar taking a back seat on occasion. 

[gzarruk]

I really wouldn't want them to do a "hard rock" album. I'm sure they could if they wanted to and would do a fine job, but it's generally not my cup of tea.  And I don't want the keys to take a back seat either.  If it's for a song here or there - sure, and same for the guitar taking a back seat on occasion.

Completely agree.

[ChuckSteak]

I'd like the new album to be instrumental.

[MirrorMask]

I'd like the new album to be instrumental.

And the chances of that happening are................?

[ChuckSteak]

I'd like the new album to be instrumental.

And the chances of that happening are................?

Topic title: What kind of album would you like DT14 to be?

It doesn't say "post only the kind of albums that have a chance of happening!" anywhere.

I know it won't happen, but I would like it to happen. There are many other posts here wanting a kind of album that most probably won't happen either and I don't see you asking anybody else the chances of happening. It seems you didn't quite like my post and that's what I understand from your reaction.

[MirrorMask]

Fair enough.

But probably the other unrealistic suggestions from the others didn't require one band member to totally sit out of the album.

[TAC]

Fair enough.

But probably the other unrealistic suggestions from the others didn't require one band member to totally sit out of the album.

Well, seems JM may have sat out at least a half dozen albums.

[ChuckSteak]

Fair enough.

But probably the other unrealistic suggestions from the others didn't require one band member to totally sit out of the album.

Well, seems JM may have sat out at least a half dozen albums.

And he doesn't seem to mind. 

[KevShmev]

Fun fact: if you listen to Dream Theater albums on a real stereo, you can hear John Myung's bass on every album quite clearly.

[Ben_Jamin]

Fun fact: if you listen to Dream Theater albums on a real stereo, you can hear John Myung's bass on every album quite clearly.

Yup and he does amazing bass lines on The Astonishing. Not drowned out at all.

[comment]

I voted progressive because I want it all.  Heavy, melodic and light with a touch of epic.

[rumborak]

This has been popping up in my Google news feed:

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/dream_theater_album_update_heavier_sound_no_concept_record_still_never_losing_sight_to_the_melody.html

[MirrorMask]

Oh my goodness, who would have thought that after a 2 discs, relatively mellow rock opera they would have done an heavier, non concept album 

I understand the need to say it and to keep the news fresh in people's mind, but I don't think anybody should be surprised by their general idea for the next record.

[Enigmachine]

Oh my goodness, who would have thought that after a 2 discs, relatively mellow rock opera they would have done an heavier, non concept album 

I understand the need to say it and to keep the news fresh in people's mind, but I don't think anybody should be surprised by their general idea for the next record.

I guess it's just peace of mind for those who think they've jumped the shark (not me).

[Pettor]

I would actually like something that sounds like the melodic progressive pieces of The Astonishing. The Gift of Music, A New Beginning, The Path That Divides etc. are all wonderfully crafted pieces imo. Just enough of all the good stuff and filled to the top with melodic candy in the vein of Scenes and Six Degrees.

I am fine with heavy but then with a nice progressive structure and a lot of melodic elements. Home, Glass Prison/TOT-style all works well for me meanwhile Bridges in The Sky, Lost not Forgotten etc. get very boring.

[deggs37]

Even though I wasn't big into The Astonishing, what I really admired about it was that it was something they really wanted to do (well at least JP and JR). I don't want the next album to be an attempt "to right the ship" to appease the people who didn't like The Astonishing. What I REALLY wish is that they would go back to having a more dynamic listening experience, the last few DT albums have been really fatiguing which makes them harder to enjoy for me. Also, I really dislike how the drums sound. I miss hearing cymbals clearly, I miss the snare not sounding like a gunshot. I wish they would let Mangini have a little more say in the SOUND of his drums, or even bring back MP to mix the drums, and then reduce the volume by like 2.5 DB or something 

[The Walrus]

Ugh. No, thanks. Stop trying to be so heavy. James simply does not fit that vibe - less so with each passing year. Let the man sing soft stuff, if you're gonna go heavy please don't try to do The Enemy Inside or Dark Eternal Night again. Really don't like when DT actively tries to pursue 'heavy' but I'll still be buying the new album on day one.

[Adami]

Ugh. No, thanks. Stop trying to be so heavy. James simply does not fit that vibe - less so with each passing year. Let the man sing soft stuff, if you're gonna go heavy please don't try to do The Enemy Inside or Dark Eternal Night again. Really don't like when DT actively tries to pursue 'heavy' but I'll still be buying the new album on day one.

Depends what kind of heavy you mean. His solo albums are really heavy and he sounds great on them.

[gzarruk]

Ugh. No, thanks. Stop trying to be so heavy. James simply does not fit that vibe - less so with each passing year. Let the man sing soft stuff, if you're gonna go heavy please don't try to do The Enemy Inside or Dark Eternal Night again. Really don't like when DT actively tries to pursue 'heavy' but I'll still be buying the new album on day one.

I'd rather have TEI and TDEN instead of another TOT. My bet is that the next album will be similar stylistically to ADTOE/DT12/IAW/Awake.

[deggs37]

Ugh. No, thanks. Stop trying to be so heavy. James simply does not fit that vibe - less so with each passing year. Let the man sing soft stuff, if you're gonna go heavy please don't try to do The Enemy Inside or Dark Eternal Night again. Really don't like when DT actively tries to pursue 'heavy' but I'll still be buying the new album on day one.

James sounds pretty good doing heavy on his solo albums.

[The Walrus]

Yeah, on his solo works (which are really just Matt Guillory's albums, let's be honest) he sounds great, but in DT he sounds like ass when they go the heavy route. I guess all I can do is wait for a single. God have mercy on the production this time

[pg1067]

bring back MP to mix the drums

Say what?!

I think you have a better chance of winning the lottery...twice...in a row.

[Pettor]

Ugh. No, thanks. Stop trying to be so heavy. James simply does not fit that vibe - less so with each passing year. Let the man sing soft stuff, if you're gonna go heavy please don't try to do The Enemy Inside or Dark Eternal Night again. Really don't like when DT actively tries to pursue 'heavy' but I'll still be buying the new album on day one.

The Glass Prison and The Mirror disagrees 

[The Walrus]

Yeah, those are good. I'm talking specifically about ther approach to being heavy in, say, the last ten years. They did it well when they were younger but personally the new stuff doesn't sound great when they to be metullll

[gzarruk]

Moment of Betrayal?