JLB's vocals in DT moving forward

[erwinrafael]

That's not a sendoff when you can still sing it with ease. You say goodbye when it is obviously the last hurrah.

[rumborak]

It's only a sendoff when you can't do it anymore 

[Herrick]

Have to disagree. I think this was the ultimate sendoff of IAW:

https://youtu.be/TfLkE5PD1Rg

Listen to TTT. He was still able to sing it, at original pitch, no altered lines, no "barking".

I think they should've been tuning down even back then.

[noxon]

The plan for this year was actually just to do a short leg in europe and asia/oz, and then be done.

When they announced that this leg would consist of doing Images and Words, the fans and promoters went absolutely nuts and it completely changed the direction for the band - where they now decided to do a full two legs of europe, a north american leg and an asian/oz leg in the fall, to be done by holidays.

It was not something they consciously did because they needed money (they did not lose money on the TA tour - while some promoters may have lost money, DT basically gets paid the fee agreed upon when theyre hired regardless of ticket sales).

All of this is covered in the JP/JM Interview I have coming up on the DT World soon-ish (i might publish the James interview beofre, since that is ready).

[CB]

I think it was born out of the mixed attendance of the TA tour

I kind of feel the same way.  Just look at the attendance for these shows.  It's almost like a revival of DT from a live show perspective compared to 2016.  I guess we can say "25th anniversary" and have a valid point, but they played the whole album for the 15th anniversary so I'm not sold it was necessary to do this, although as my favorite DT album and having not seen my favorite DT song live (LtL) I am glad they are doing it.  I also think a lot of these songs may not be getting played much or at all anymore after this.  Their catalogue is too big and strong to have to go back to these songs that JLB struggles with.

I'm glad I saw I&W twice this year, but I hope that in the future they will mostly play songs from the more recent era. They have enough GREAT songs in their repertoire that are perfect for JLBs voice, and they will always have if they, when writing new material, consider the strengths of his voice as it is now.

[rumborak]

they did not lose money on the TA tour - while some promoters may have lost money, DT basically gets paid the fee agreed upon when theyre hired regardless of ticket sales

Just to comment on this, while that may be the nature of the engagement, all this comes down to is a delayed reaction to a bad tour. So, DT might not have immediately lost money, but for the next tour, promoters who lost money or barely broke even, will make sure they raise their fees accordingly to make sure they still make money. That cuts into DT's profits.
In market terms, a bad tour causes your market value to decrease, and the promoters view you as a higher risk booking, and will adjust their fees (or even their willingness to begin with) of your band's booking.
The current IAW tour may just as well be a means to stay in good standing with the promoters.

[erwinrafael]

Why do you have to alqays insist every time you get that the TA tour is a financial loss despite people who have more intimate knowledge of the issue always saying that that is not the case?

[CB]

they did not lose money on the TA tour - while some promoters may have lost money, DT basically gets paid the fee agreed upon when theyre hired regardless of ticket sales

Just to comment on this, while that may be the nature of the engagement, all this comes down to is a delayed reaction to a bad tour. So, DT might not have immediately lost money, but for the next tour, promoters who lost money or barely broke even, will make sure they raise their fees accordingly to make sure they still make money. That cuts into DT's profits.
In market terms, a bad tour causes your market value to decrease, and the promoters view you as a higher risk booking, and will adjust their fees (or even their willingness to begin with) of your band's booking.
The current IAW tour may just as well be a means to stay in good standing with the promoters.

And JLB is paying the price for that ...

[bosk1]

they did not lose money on the TA tour - while some promoters may have lost money, DT basically gets paid the fee agreed upon when theyre hired regardless of ticket sales

Just to comment on this, while that may be the nature of the engagement, all this comes down to is a delayed reaction to a bad tour. So, DT might not have immediately lost money, but for the next tour, promoters who lost money or barely broke even, will make sure they raise their fees accordingly to make sure they still make money. That cuts into DT's profits.
In market terms, a bad tour causes your market value to decrease, and the promoters view you as a higher risk booking, and will adjust their fees (or even their willingness to begin with) of your band's booking.
The current IAW tour may just as well be a means to stay in good standing with the promoters.

Sorry, but no, you don't know what you are talking about on that issue.

[rumborak]

Promoters need to make money. If they book half-empty venues, it hits their margin. In consequence, they are less willing to book said band again, or if so for a higher fee.

What part is wrong?

[bosk1]

Several things about it are wrong.  First, the assumption that promoters lost money on the tour.  We don't know that.  We can't know that.  And if true, I doubt that it is true in more than a handful of markets they played in.

Second, even if your assumption could somehow be proven true, the model you proposed is too simplistic.  It does not follow that a given promoter who broke even or lost on one tour is going to refuse to book the band on the next tour.  That isn't how it works.  If the losses are big enough, and if they repeat, yeah, maybe.  But by itself, on a single tour, most promoters won't do that.  If they cut too many big enough acts prematurely, word gets around the industry, and people stop working with them (except maybe in those rare markets where they are the only fish in the pond and have a stranglehold over that market such that you HAVE TO work with them). 

Also...well, actually, forget the "also."  There are a LOT of "also's" (variables) in the equation, many of which I don't even know.  And that, again, is the problem with your argument.  It is based on false assumptions, and it is too simplistic and doesn't take into account the many variables that are in place.

[Samsara]

Noxon, looking forward to reading the interviews. Thank you.

[Skeever]

I personally would like to see DT try a different singer. I've always liked the tone of James' voice, and think, as is, it would be fine on a more "Falling Into Infinity" tier sound, but they continue to write songs that would really benefit from a powerful singer. That is one reason why I'm still a bit baffled they decided to do a musical with their new album - very demanding for a singer who, at this point, could be adding primarily color and character to the sound, but here is tasked doing rock opera vocals.

It seems like DT have just continued to get heavier and more "metal" as I've continuously expected them to take things down a notch. Can't say I blame them. A lot of fans really, really like it. And JP's shredder status is so central to interest in the band, from what I can tell. Personally, I think this kind of music would just sound better with a different singer. But I'd also rather the complete opposite - DT get softer, and start channeling Floyd moreso than Iron Maiden. Do something that allows us to appreciate the tonal qualities of JLB's voice, rather than something that continuously has us asking ourselves "can he really hit that one?"

[Ravenfoul]

Noxon, looking forward to reading the interviews. Thank you.

Same. Thanks for doing it, both to you and to the band.

[erwinrafael]

I personally would like to see DT try a different singer. I've always liked the tone of James' voice, and think, as is, it would be fine on a more "Falling Into Infinity" tier sound, but they continue to write songs that would really benefit from a powerful singer. That is one reason why I'm still a bit baffled they decided to do a musical with their new album - very demanding for a singer who, at this point, could be adding primarily color and character to the sound, but here is tasked doing rock opera vocals.

But The Astonishing actually allowed James to showcase that he is not just a belter. Most of the belting is done with the Arhys character. The other characters highlight different vocal styles (Gabriel as hard rock, Faythe as pop, Daryus as metal, Nafaryus as classic rock with theatrical Freddie Mercury flair).

[cramx3]

I personally would like to see DT try a different singer. I've always liked the tone of James' voice, and think, as is, it would be fine on a more "Falling Into Infinity" tier sound, but they continue to write songs that would really benefit from a powerful singer. That is one reason why I'm still a bit baffled they decided to do a musical with their new album - very demanding for a singer who, at this point, could be adding primarily color and character to the sound, but here is tasked doing rock opera vocals.

But The Astonishing actually allowed James to showcase that he is not just a belter. Most of the belting is done with the Arhys character. The other characters highlight different vocal styles (Gabriel as hard rock, Faythe as pop, Daryus as metal, Nafaryus as classic rock with theatrical Freddie Mercury flair).

True, plus I would add that TA is generally viewed as DT's softest album

[gzarruk]

It seems like DT have just continued to get heavier and more "metal" as I've continuously expected them to take things down a notch. Can't say I blame them. A lot of fans really, really like it. And JP's shredder status is so central to interest in the band, from what I can tell. Personally, I think this kind of music would just sound better with a different singer. But I'd also rather the complete opposite - DT get softer, and start channeling Floyd moreso than Iron Maiden. Do something that allows us to appreciate the tonal qualities of JLB's voice, rather than something that continuously has us asking ourselves "can he really hit that one?"

That's why they just released The Astonishing, the heaviest record of their careers 

[Herrick]

That's why they just released The Astonishing, the heaviest record of their careers 

Agreed. They've been less "Metal" since A Dramatic Turn of Events and I'm fine with that. 

[Sycsa]

The plan for this year was actually just to do a short leg in europe and asia/oz, and then be done.

What is "oz"?

[CB]

The plan for this year was actually just to do a short leg in europe and asia/oz, and then be done.

What is "oz"?

Australia

[CB]

That's why they just released The Astonishing, the heaviest record of their careers 

Agreed. They've been less "Metal" since A Dramatic Turn of Events and I'm fine with that.

ADTOE ist one of my favourite albums, if they continue with that style I'll be happy. But I don't think they can't write "heavier" songs/albums any more. JLB still has a very powerful voice if he's singing in a comfortable vocal range. TDEN works great on the current tour.
Didn't JP just say in a recent interview that he writes the songs with JLBs voice in mind, and that JLB can sing everything?

[Adami]

The plan for this year was actually just to do a short leg in europe and asia/oz, and then be done.

What is "oz"?

It's where Jordan vacations and hides behind a curtain.

[Skeever]

I personally would like to see DT try a different singer. I've always liked the tone of James' voice, and think, as is, it would be fine on a more "Falling Into Infinity" tier sound, but they continue to write songs that would really benefit from a powerful singer. That is one reason why I'm still a bit baffled they decided to do a musical with their new album - very demanding for a singer who, at this point, could be adding primarily color and character to the sound, but here is tasked doing rock opera vocals.

But The Astonishing actually allowed James to showcase that he is not just a belter. Most of the belting is done with the Arhys character. The other characters highlight different vocal styles (Gabriel as hard rock, Faythe as pop, Daryus as metal, Nafaryus as classic rock with theatrical Freddie Mercury flair).

I would agree with that, but it doesn't really contradict my statement. I only listened to the Astonishing 2-3 times (sorry, not my cup of tea AT ALL), and while James did a good job showcasing those roles in the studio, I'm not sure those roles showcased the real James.

That's why they just released The Astonishing, the heaviest record of their careers 

Agreed. They've been less "Metal" since A Dramatic Turn of Events and I'm fine with that. 

Eh, semantics. They've dropped a lot of the "modern" metal influences that came with Portnoy, but all three albums with Mangini are undeniably belonging under the "metal", and the point I was making is that I'd like to see them go for a softer sound overall that would be uniquely not-metal. 

[Evai]

James is so cute ^^

[rumborak]

and the point I was making is that I'd like to see them go for a softer sound overall that would be uniquely not-metal.

Count me in on that desire. It pains me to know that DT *has* that side, because it peered out in rare occasions.

A random example, but you know, as campy as POW is, that may be the only time DT ever experimented with layered vocals. There are so many avenues to explore for DT.

[CB]

and the point I was making is that I'd like to see them go for a softer sound overall that would be uniquely not-metal.

Count me in on that desire. It pains me to know that DT *has* that side, because it peered out in rare occasions.

A random example, but you know, as campy as POW is, that may be the only time DT ever experimented with layered vocals. There are so many avenues to explore for DT.

I doubt that they, as one of the world's leading prog metal bands, would take a risk like that. They could lose the major part of their fanbase.

[erwinrafael]

and the point I was making is that I'd like to see them go for a softer sound overall that would be uniquely not-metal.

Count me in on that desire. It pains me to know that DT *has* that side, because it peered out in rare occasions.

A random example, but you know, as campy as POW is, that may be the only time DT ever experimented with layered vocals. There are so many avenues to explore for DT.

Given that many fans vocally complained about the lack of metal in The Astonishing, I don't think they would really go this route.

[Prog Snob]

and the point I was making is that I'd like to see them go for a softer sound overall that would be uniquely not-metal.

Count me in on that desire. It pains me to know that DT *has* that side, because it peered out in rare occasions.

A random example, but you know, as campy as POW is, that may be the only time DT ever experimented with layered vocals. There are so many avenues to explore for DT.

Given that many fans vocally complained about the lack of metal in The Astonishing, I don't think they would really go this route.

And many fans didn't. I'm always curious to see what the band does next. They usually don't make two consecutive albums with the same sound.

[Herrick]

Eh, semantics. They've dropped a lot of the "modern" metal influences that came with Portnoy, but all three albums with Mangini are undeniably belonging under the "metal", and the point I was making is that I'd like to see them go for a softer sound overall that would be uniquely not-metal.

It can be difficult to define. Apparently, AC/DC was Metal back in the day. I wouldn't classify The Astonishing as Metal. The Dark Side of the Moon is a Rock album but I think it's very mellow. Whatever you call it, I'd like to hear Dream Theater rock it out or have high energy whatever.

I doubt that they, as one of the world's leading prog metal bands, would take a risk like that. They could lose the major part of their fanbase.

The Astonishing was a big risk methinks.

[Samsara]

Canadian rap, anyone?