Do you still LOVE Dream Theater??

[Bertielee]

People always give me endless flak for this, but when they switched to RoadRunner they also switched their whole image. I fell in love with DT as a pure geek band. JP played in sneakers on stage, MP wore silly jerseys, and the metal part, at least to me, was always a bit tongue in cheek. After the switch to RR I felt they were consciously targeting a different audience.

Totally agree with you there. With the signing at RR, the shift has been to a more metal image and the music has become, at least for me, more clinical, like cold. After 2 albums of that kind (SC and BC&SL), they came back to more warmth with ADToE, but by the time, they had already kind of lost me, even if I like  ADToE, DT 12 and TA. My love for DT will never come back to the extent it was before.
And I've finally put the finger on what bothers me with MM. I find him to be essentially a "metal" drummer who's very clinical in what he's doing. While I thought that his arrival would be very beneficial to the band, it's been quite the contrary. And I don't think it has anything to do with his not contributing much to the music, since on every video I've seen of him, his 'stiffness" (if that makes sense) has always been what rubs me the wrong way.

B.Lee

[Stewie]

What bothers me most about MM is how he can never answer a question without going into an overly long, drawn-out reply. A lot of times when they ask him in interviews how he likes being in DT, and touring and all that, instead of answering in a clear-cut, straightforward manner, he proceeds to go off on all these philosophical tangents. He never actually answers the question precisely; he isn't brief and to the point. I always feel like "just answer the damn question like a regular person!" lol. I think it's probably just the way his mind works; everything has an over-the-top mathematical approach. He's very analytical, and probably overthinks a lot. At least, that's what I take away from his interviews.

Having said that, I've never agreed with many others about his playing being robotic, or lacking feel or emotion or whatever - the guy can groove. I also don't perceive him to be just a "metal" drummer, either. His latin-jazz and afro-cuban playing is off the charts. I was fortunate enough to attend one of his clinics back in the day, and he played everything from technical metal to latin-jazz! That's why I was super excited when he joined DT, because I felt he would bring all kinds of sick new elements to the band - kinda how when JR joined, it took the band to a whole new level of musical possibilities.

For me, that has yet to happen with MM. Of course, that isn't necessarily his fault. As has been discussed lately, he might not be given the kind of creative input he'd like to have, so who knows. I do think the albums he's been featured on do have a lot of "Mangini-isms" in them, but stylistically I don't think he has really offered anything new or groundbreaking. Their music since MP's departure still sounds relatively the same, and I was hoping MM would take the band to a whole new level, and challenge the others rhythmically, much like JR did when he joined. I get they want to stick to their identity, for business sake, and I get that it's a balancing act for Mangini (knowing how and when to add something new, etc), but still. Overall, can't really complain - I love The Astonishing.

[Jester]

What bothers me most about MM is how he can never answer a question without going into an overly long, drawn-out reply. A lot of times when they ask him in interviews how he likes being in DT, and touring and all that, instead of answering in a clear-cut, straightforward manner, he proceeds to go off on all these philosophical tangents.

He's just the verbose version of Myung in that aspect.  MM just strikes me as a guy that is very into self-awareness and that is something I can appreciate.  As shown with Illumination Theory, it could provide some great lyric material.  Wordsmith and *idea man* are not always a bundled package.  I think MM could have made the story of The Astonishing more dimensional.  He's into the why.

This is the type of stuff Mangini needs to start pushing.  It takes him from drummer to artist level.

[Architeuthis]

I really like MM's style of drumming!  The Astonishing is a great example of his ability to exercise restraint and really kick it into gear when the song calls for it. MM and MP have both brought some great things to the table..

[Jester]

MM and MP have both brought some great things to the table..

Love when DT fans don't take the road that one's success depends on the failure of the other.

The Sherinian v. Rudess thing always rubbed me the wrong way.  Planet X was proof that Sherinian had a lot to offer, DT just didn't utilize it to its potential.

[Prog Snob]

I concur. I think there are particulars in all of the members, current and past, that have not revealed themselves in Dream Theater's music. That's why they're able to be so versatile. Can you imagine just how much of Jordan's immense virtuosity we've yet to see in Dream Theater?

[red barchetta]

I would argue that one of Rush's appeals was their every-day-guy behavior and attire. That gave them a feeling of approachability. 

Obviously!




Seriously, Rush was notorious for being unapproachable. That has all changed since they came back from Neil's tragedies. It seems they feel they are playing with house money since, and it shows.

Rush were pretty much approachable. Neil is the more private guy but on the other hand he learned and speaks perfect french and has given many french interviews. As for Alex and Ged, they have given all the interviews you can ask for. If you talk about Meet and greet stuff, it did not exist back in the day but like many bands, they have done it in the recent years. I can't complain. As a big fan, they have always been close enough to give me information with their newspapers and radio interviews.

[gzarruk]

I concur. I think there are particulars in all of the members, current and past, that have not revealed themselves in Dream Theater's music. That's why they're able to be so versatile. Can you imagine just how much of Jordan's immense virtuosity we've yet to see in Dream Theater?

Both LMR albums are good examples of that. Jordan is all over the place haha

[rumborak]

That's as late as 2005.



And now.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I never really been a diehard fan of DT, when I discovered them in the late 90s I had a huge respect for their music and musicianship mostly because i've never heard that kind of music and they were basically my introduction to prog metal. I&W, Awake and SfaM are important to me, I guess I was most into them during 98-03 but after that I lost interest in them pretty much and other bands took over but if it weren't for them I wouldn't have discovered so many other bands in the prog genre. Funny enough I joined this forum in 2011 very much because of the split and MM joining the band, thought that would spark some ignition in DT but their music hasn't really grown that much imo.

Saw them on this recent tour and while the band and especially MM played better than ever i'm sad to say JLB ruined the evening for me, sounds harsh but his voice was all over the place and I couldn't just ignore it.

I LOVE this forum though!

[noxon]

[Jester]

John Myung opening presents every Christmas of his entire adult life:

"Oh.  A black t-shirt.  I needed one of these."

[Zydar]

[Cyclopssss]

Still my #1 Prog metal band. The love might be slightly lesser then say, 5, 6 years ago, but I still buy their products blindly. I'll still see them when I get the chance. Fates is a good #2. 

[mikeyd23]

Eh, DT has always gone through different looks and images over the years. Whether people like them or not, I find that has little to do with what I actually care about, the music.

[Enigmachine]

*snip*

That's as late as 2005.

*snip*

And now.

Apart from James, the 2nd pic is a better look IMO.

[Lethean]

Not only that, one is a live pic and one is promo. JP and JM are essentially the same on stage.  Jordan looks the same now on stage as he did then, except he has black pants instead of blue, but I remember him wearing black sometimes back then as well.  James has gone through several changes, the 2005 being his most casual l think. MM is of course not going to wear jerseys and copy MP. To me, none of this is a big deal. If the music was all their heaviest metal all the time, it might mean something. But it isn't.

[rumborak]

That's all well and true, bit I still feel the switch to RR resulted in a very distinct image shift. Whether that's relevant to the music or the enjoyment of the band is a different matter, but I think "Duck Dynasty JP" and "black wig MM" would not have been the without the switch.

[noxon]

Well, we can compare with the promo shots from 2005:

[rumborak]

Call me crazy, but for me there's a world of a difference between those promo shots and the current ones.

[Bertielee]

Call me crazy, but for me there's a world of a difference between those promo shots and the current ones.

Yes, 11 years!!! 
Kidding aside, I know where you're coming from, and I have the same feeling as you albeit to a lesser extent.

B.Lee

[emtee]

Doesn't matter to me what they wear.


One very noticeable thing though is how much bulk JP has added through the years. I wonder how many more years he can keep up the pace. It starts to take a toll on the joints and tendons when you have lifted for years and you get into your 50's.

[Peace and Love]

I'm sorry but this last page of discussion about their clothes and fashion style completely explains why I made the thread in the first place.

[Bertielee]

I'm sorry but this last page of discussion about their clothes and fashion style completely explains why I made the thread in the first place.

Well, I guess that what Rumby is trying to say (but maybe I'm wrong), is that the shift to RR has resulted in a shift in their image (and maybe their music) as well. I for one am not talking their clothes for the sake of it, but more to corroborate my opinion that with their signing to RR, thay have had a tendency to adopt a more metal image. It's strange because I don't think it goes well with their later music, especially the astonishing. But maybe that's just me.

B.Lee

[Serah Farron]

Their clothes suite them fine. I adore John Myungs super simple clothing.

[bosk1]

I'm sorry but this last page of discussion about their clothes and fashion style completely explains why I made the thread in the first place.

Well, I guess that what Rumby is trying to say (but maybe I'm wrong), is that the shift to RR has resulted in a shift in their image (and maybe their music) as well.

I could be mistaken, but I don't think that is what he is saying at all.  I don't think he is saying that the shift in image "resulted" from the shift to RR, but rather that both are the result of the band wanting to be "more metal" or, at least, to bring the metal more to the forefront.  But, for the record, I disagree with that as well.  I agree that there was a shift in image (but not sound) that coincided with/occurred at the time of the change to RR.  But, really, it is one of many shifts in the images of some of the individual band members of the years.  And most of them have always maintained a "metal" image.  It's just that what they perceived metal to be also shifted over the years.  Look at the band promos around the time of WDADU.  If you never heard a note of their music and just saw those shots, I think most would assume they were just another hair metal/glam metal band.  They didn't look like an '80s pop or prog band.  They looked like an '80s hair metal/glam metal band.  I&W era?  The looked had evolved somewhat, and was pretty consistent with the rest of the "metal" scene as well.  And we could go on and on.  To pick a few:  FII era look?  Looks pretty similar to Metallica's mid-'90s Load-era look.  SFAM era?  JP was going for the Swedish metal band look.  Octavarium?  Uh...do I even need to comment?

[Lethean]

Sorry, Peace. You are right. I was trying to say it doesn't matter at all, but wound up arguing about how different or not they really look. To me, if they want to have a more metal image, that's fine. If RR suggested it, that's fine too. I doubt JP feels pressure from RR to have that beard. It's not what I would choose, but who really cares?  I think they let their music do the talking, and we should feel the way we feel about based on how it moves us, not on how long JP's beard is.

As for them being approachable - they totally are. If we're OK with Rush's level of accessibility, DT goes way beyond that.

[Lethean]

Bosk also said what I was trying to say about the image, and did it much better.

[Bertielee]

  I think they let their music do the talking, and we should feel the way we feel about based on how it moves us, not on how long JP's beard is.

At the end of the day, you're right. Let the music do the talking. And as far as being moved by it, TA did sometimes move me in a way I hadn't been by DT music in a long time.

B.Lee

[cramx3]

It's just that what they perceived metal to be also shifted over the years.  Look at the band promos around the time of WDADU.  If you never heard a note of their music and just saw those shots, I think most would assume they were just another hair metal/glam metal band.  They didn't look like an '80s pop or prog band.  They looked like an '80s hair metal/glam metal band.  I&W era?  The looked had evolved somewhat, and was pretty consistent with the rest of the "metal" scene as well.  And we could go on and on.  To pick a few:  FII era look?  Looks pretty similar to Metallica's mid-'90s Load-era look.  SFAM era?  JP was going for the Swedish metal band look.  Octavarium?  Uh...do I even need to comment?

I agree with this.  DT's looks have just changed over times like the metal scene has changed over time.  Even my own looks have changed over time.  It's natural.  I think if DT looked the way they did in the 90s, now, then we would be making fun of their dated looks.  I think any band that's been around for longer than a decade, you will see similarities to a change in looks.

[Tony From Long Island]

MM and MP have both brought some great things to the table..

Love when DT fans don't take the road that one's success depends on the failure of the other.

I have nothing bad to say about MM.  I saw him live when he was in Extreme.  I thought he was an excellent drummer then and he still is.   But I just prefer MP in DT.    If JP is the heart of DT, then MP was the soul.    I can't put my finger on what it is, but I just think something has been missing from DT. 

I still love them like it's still 1993  (my opinion of The Astonishing notwithstanding).  That will likely never change.

I am just stubborn about certain things.   Getting MP back in DT is one of them and getting the Islanders back on Long Island is the other  :-)   

MM doesn't have to FAIL for that to happen (Neither Derek nor Kevin Moore "failed").  There are countless examples throughout the last 50 years of band members coming back into the fold and the person who replaced them being completely cool with it. . . .  .now I'm just rambling . . .

[Tony From Long Island]

Mr Boom  " . . . .Saw them on this recent tour and while the band and especially MM played better than ever i'm sad to say JLB ruined the evening for me, sounds harsh but his voice was all over the place and I couldn't just ignore it. . . . . "


You try singing that shit when you are in your 50's!     Not easy to do!    I could barely do it when I was in my 20's and now that I am 42, the door is just about closed!     Easy to criticize JLB when you don't have to sing it every night.

[Tony From Long Island]

I like the JP pics with the short hair.

[Jester]

Their clothes suite them fine. I adore John Myungs super simple clothing.

Adore is a strong word, but I can relate.  Clothing has always been an afterthought for me ...  It is funny though when people are arguing about clothing styles and posting era pics to show the changes, Myung could literally be cut and paste into each one from any other one and you wouldn't even notice a change.  I'm waiting for the commentary on how that means he is rebelling against the image changes or what the significance really is. 

Probably just doesn't care about clothes and trying out different images.  Cool.  I can relate.  Petrucci is the opposite.  Cool.  Good for him.

I literally never think about DT's image until I open this site.

[red barchetta]

I'm sorry but this last page of discussion about their clothes and fashion style completely explains why I made the thread in the first place.

Well, I guess that what Rumby is trying to say (but maybe I'm wrong), is that the shift to RR has resulted in a shift in their image (and maybe their music) as well. I for oMne am not talking their clothes for the sake of it, but more to corroborate my opinion that with their signing to RR, thay have had a tendency to adopt a more metal image. It's strange because I don't think it goes well with their later music, especially the astonishing. But maybe that's just me.

B.Lee

Same opinion here.