DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!

[IDontNotDoThings]

I'm pretty sure Bosk mentioned at one point that songs in this thread that were mentioned will be played.  So I'm too lazy to do this, but if you cross reference the list from IDontNotDoThings with what other posters have guessed, it could limit this list. 

AKA I doubt anyone has guessed Space-Dye Vest, Beneath the Surface, Along for the Ride, or Build Me Up, Break Me Down.

I looked for that post all around the thread but I couldn't find it. I'm not saying it doesn't exist (because it probably does), but if you could link the post to me, we could find out for certain.

I found it (I think)

Well, I've stayed away from further hints for the time being because, for the DT12 song, I've given you a 50/50 shot, and for 3 other songs, I've given enough hints to have given those away to the point that, although I haven't confirmed it, all three have been guessed correctly by people in this thread.  So, 4 non-I&W songs have been hinted at and guessed.

I will say again, though, for the vast majority of fans, even if you somehow found nothing else to like in the rest of the set, I&W and the encore alone will make you VERY happy you went.

[RaiseTheKnife]

Gee, we're still debating whether or not Illumination Theory is the setlist opener?

[IDontNotDoThings]

Gee, we're still debating whether or not Illumination Theory is the setlist opener?

Again, I don't remember whether or not bosk outright denied that the opener would be from DT12, I'm just putting it on the list to cover my bases in case that isn't the case.

[RaiseTheKnife]

Yeah, don't mind me.  We'll all find out soon enough in a matter of days.

[IDontNotDoThings]

With the  help of the "it's been mentioned in the thread" hint, I've narrowed it down further:

- Scarred [194]
- Outcry [73]
- Far From Heaven [29]
- Breaking All Illusions [192]
- Along For The Ride [97]
- Illumination Theory [93]
- Trial Of Tears [261]
- Caught In A Web [226]
- The Dance Of Eternity [397]
- The Spirit Carries On [453]
- Finally Free [282]

The number in brackets is how many times it's been played live according to setlist.fm, so it's possible to determine which are crowd-favourites

FFH, AFTR & TSCO are unlikely to be considered "monster tracks", but since it's subjective I'll leave them on the list anyway.




& one more thing, I dug around the DT album ranking thread for a bit & found this:

Now that there are 12 and I have had #12 long enough to be somewhat objective about it:

1.  Six Degrees
2.  Scenes
3.  A Dramatic Turn of Events
4.  DT12
5.  I&W
6.  Awake
7.  Octavarium
8.  Systematic Chaos
9.  TOT
10.  FII
11.  Black Clouds
12.  WDADU

The main thing I notice about this is that most of the later-alphabet albums (WD&DU, TOT, SC, 8VM) are all in the bottom half of his rankings. The only exception is Six Degrees, which is #1. Take this as you will.

[erwinrafael]

TDOE is basically the Metropolis instrumental on steroids, so it is Images and Words Beyond.

Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely.

[ToT-147]

Right so lets someone compile a list of songs from the album Octavarium onwards (alphabetically) that they have played with MM. And lets go from there.

First: we already have.. Second: you're pointing out only two hints out of the several Bosk has giving us, and one of them is wrong: he didn't say the song is from 8V onwards.. If you're deducting that basing on the Epica clue, then you should attend to this comment of his:

So knowing that WDADU is not in the running, but it is an album that is later in the alphabet, that would narrow it down.  Again, assuming that that is what I was hinting at... 

This and the word "hipotetical" repeated enfatically in recent comments imply that we might be wrong about that hint from the beginning..

Finally: I think, as @ProgSnob stated before, that the songs' list @IDontNotDoThings made doesn't fit the hints' list he settled earlier:

Okay, so here's what we know:
- It's a monster track
- It's a crowd pleaser
- It hasn't been opened with, but it's still not unusual to be played
- It has been played live by Mangini
- It comes in the last 25 minutes of whatever album it's on (this could mean live albums as well) PROBABLY
- Albums that come later in the alphabet are more likely PROBABLY
- It's not from WD&DU, I&W (duh), BC&SL or DT12
- There is an instrumental in the set, but we don't know if it's the opener

*The bold, the "probably"s and the strikethrough are mine..

In my case, I've already write down the songs that satisfy all those conditions, although giving more importance to the bold hints and none to the "PROBABLY" hints..

IF the Epica hint is as 'we' think it is -and so, Bosk would only be trying to confuse us by saying that is only a possibility-, then the options of my list would be reduced to only five songs divided in two groups, each one of them with one different condition:

Trial of Tears
Finally Free                             [if the song is at the last 25 minute of the album]
Breaking All Illusions               
Illumination Theory

Endless Sacrifice                     [if the song is from the last DT album, alphabetically]

Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely.

That song is discarded if not for the "alphabetical order" thing, then for the crowd pleaser condition..

[bosk1]

My goodnessm  Y'all need to learn your alphabet.

[erwinrafael]

Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely.

That song is discarded if not for the "alphabetical order" thing, then for the crowd pleaser condition..

Yeah, except it comes in 25 minutes before the end of the Score DVD Disc 2, which, for all we know, bosk could have ripped the audio of. 

[IDontNotDoThings]

I wasn't considering DVD's, but I find it a little unlikely that bosk would rip the audio from the DVDs. Still possible, but somewhat unlikely.

[IDontNotDoThings]

My goodnessm

I'm going to start saying this from now on.

[jsbru]

Based on these hints:
- It has been played live by Mangini
- It comes in the last 25 minutes of whatever album it's on (this could mean live albums as well)
- It's not from WD&DU, I&W (duh), BC&SL or DT12



Awake
- Lie
- Lifting Shadows Off A Dream
- Scarred
- Space-Dye Vest

Breaking The Fourth Wall
- Overture 1928
- Strange Deja Vu

A Dramatic Turn Of Events
- Outcry
- Far From Heaven
- Breaking All Illusions
- Beneath The Surface

Dream Theater 12 (I can't remember if bosk deconfirmed DT12 or not, so just in case he didn't...)
- Along For The Ride
- Illumination Theory

Falling Into Infinity
- Trial Of Tears

Live At Luna Park
- Build Me Up, Break Me Down
- Caught In A Web

Metropolis 2
- The Dance Of Eternity
- The Spirit Carries On
- Finally Free

I already pretty much did this a few pages back.  DT12 is effectively eliminated, because we know there's only one song, either STR/TBP, from that album in the setlist, and of course they have never played either of those live with MM.

It also has to be a "monster" track, so FFH, BTS, SDV and LSOAD are pretty much eliminated.

Otherwise, that's pretty much the same list I came up with, other than I didn't factor in the live albums, which still could be possible I guess.

[jsbru]

Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely.

That's still not a terrible guess, because out of the 3 tracks they've played parts of with MM from that album, it's the only one that isn't eliminated outright by other clues.

I just don't really think that's ever been a "crowd pleaser."

[Tomislav95]

Can someone tell me why it cant' be Illumination Theory?

[IDontNotDoThings]

Can someone tell me why it cant' be Illumination Theory?

IT was on both mine & ToT's lists, who's saying it can't be?

But if jsbru is correct, bosk confirmed that there was only one DT12 song & it was TBP or STR, neither of which could be the opener because they've never been played live before.

[Tomislav95]

Can someone tell me why it cant' be Illumination Theory?

IT was on both mine & ToT's lists, who's saying it can't be?

But if jsbru is correct, bosk confirmed that there was only one DT12 song & it was TBP or STR, neither of which could be the opener because they've never been played live before.

Oh ok.
I just thought if he had artists sorted alphabetically and albums chronologically (and no TA loaded) IT would be last song.

[Jinx]

My goodnessm  Y'all need to learn your alphabet.

I think more hints are needed   

[IDontNotDoThings]

Can someone tell me why it cant' be Illumination Theory?

IT was on both mine & ToT's lists, who's saying it can't be?

But if jsbru is correct, bosk confirmed that there was only one DT12 song & it was TBP or STR, neither of which could be the opener because they've never been played live before.

Oh ok.
I just thought if he had artists sorted alphabetically and albums chronologically (and no TA loaded) IT would be last song.

Albums are actually sorted alphabetically as well on Windows Media Player, so WD&DU would be the last album & OAMOT would be the last song.

That said, bosk said he doesn't listen to WD&DU on his work computer & if you trace back alphabetically & only count songs in the last 25 minutes of their album, then eliminate songs they haven't played the MM, & you get my first list. Then eliminate songs people haven't guessed & you get my second list.

Also jsbru, I can't seem to find the quote from bosk saying that TBP/STR was the only song from DT12 to be played, could you link to that in the thread? Thanks in advance.

[IDontNotDoThings]

My goodnessm  Y'all need to learn your alphabet.

I think more hints are needed   

A comes before B

[Jinx]

Yeah but people are still suggesting IT and FF and the such. DT is out, MPt2 is out, basically any album title in the first half of the alphabet (at least) are out.

If the albums are towards the latter of the alphabet then we've got 8VM, TOT, SC, 6DOIT. That leaves:
TROAE, These Walls, Panic Attack
As I Am, ES
Forsaken, CM, TDEN
WIMH, TTTSTA

Personally I'm thinking we are getting the wrong end of that Epica clue because assuming that the album has played out in full none of those songs match that particular criteria.
I actually think Panic Attack most fits the criteria bosk has given, but as I said I think we need more clues.

[IDontNotDoThings]

1000th reply 

Personally I'm thinking we are getting the wrong end of that Epica clue because assuming that the album has played out in full none of those songs match that particular criteria.

I was just thinking about this, but else could the Epica clue refer to? Bosk said that it had nothing to do with song titles or lyrics, only timing, & that I was on the right track asking him if he had an ELP album. I'm not sure how many other things that could mean, but I suppose it's still up for interpretation. 

[Jinx]

1000th reply 

Personally I'm thinking we are getting the wrong end of that Epica clue because assuming that the album has played out in full none of those songs match that particular criteria.

I was just thinking about this, but else could the Epica clue refer to? Bosk said that it had nothing to do with song titles or lyrics, only timing, & that I was on the right track asking him if he had an ELP album. I'm not sure how many other things that could mean, but I suppose it's still up for interpretation. 

I got pretty shot down for this earlier on in the thread but IF bosk listened to Panic Attack, then went on to listen to Never Enough and Sacrificed Sons - that totals 25 mins. Now, the next song on that album is obviously Octavarium - an epic. Its pretty far fetched but its all to do with timing. Plus Panic Attack fits all of the other criteria as I said.

[fischermasamune]

Perhaps Bosk is using a version of Windows Media Player which puts The Astonishing under the letter T. I don't know what would be a monster track of the disc 2, so if the the disc 1 was the last album, the "monster" track A Tempting Offer fits in the description.

[ToT-147]

Yeah, basically there are two clues that aren't clear.. One is that the song is "a monster track".. IIRC Bosk never clarified what this means... i.e., if it means necessarily "epic": at least *I* took it that way, because of his reaction when ppl was mentioning songs that spoke about monsters or was "monstrous" somehow" and he said "now you're being silly" or something like that.. Because I take monster-track as epic-track (also because of the MM's tweet, although Bosk could have easily used that to mislead us), I discard a lot of songs that fit the other criteria (Panic Attack, Caught in a Web, Peruvian Skies, TSCO, etc)..

And the other is the Epica thing.. Again, if this hint is what all are saying it is (last 25 minute of albums at the end of the alphabet), then that leaves no songs at all if we consider the "played live with Mangini" and the "epic track" conditions... Well, actually, there is one, but we'd have to think that he doesn't have TOT, TA, SC, SDOIT and 8V on his work computer.. Song would be Finally Free (or TSCO, OLT or TDoE if we don't think the song is an epic and it could be an instrumental)..

PS: note that earlier on in this very thread Bosk said that he thought ANtR was played live with Mangini.... so he could easily be thinking that they played let's say ItNoG or Sacrificed Sons with MM and then any of these could be the song..

Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely.

That song is discarded if not for the "alphabetical order" thing, then for the crowd pleaser condition..

Yeah, except it comes in 25 minutes before the end of the Score DVD Disc 2, which, for all we know, bosk could have ripped the audio of. 

I don't know about that, but even in that case, Train of Thought would come after Score.. But if you're right, and he doesn't have TOT on his computer, then the song is definitely TGD... because, after all, the "crowd pleaser" condition is the more subjective I suppose..

[Jinx]

The thing about TGD is... they havent played it a lot. Bosk said the song in question has been played recently and quite frequently since release too.

I have no idea really, we seem to be going in circles. Think I'm gonna back out and leave you guys to it!

[Rushspirit2112]

What if the Opener is "Our New World"? It's been played with Mangini, Last 25 minutes of the album, a crowd pleaser, and been played quite frequently since it's release.

[erwinrafael]

Still sticking with my The Great Debate prediction although it's very unlikely.

That song is discarded if not for the "alphabetical order" thing, then for the crowd pleaser condition..

Yeah, except it comes in 25 minutes before the end of the Score DVD Disc 2, which, for all we know, bosk could have ripped the audio of. 

I don't know about that, but even in that case, Train of Thought would come after Score.. But if you're right, and he doesn't have TOT on his computer, then the song is definitely TGD... because, after all, the "crowd pleaser" condition is the more subjective I suppose..

Don't take my prediction seriously. When I made it, I thought bosk's Media Player is like mine which is sequenced alphabetically by album regardless of Artist (Epica has an album also titled Score). 

[hefdaddy42]

What if the Opener is "Our New World"? It's been played with Mangini, Last 25 minutes of the album, a crowd pleaser, and been played quite frequently since it's release.

I don't think that can be considered a monster track, by any definition of the term.

You guys are so cute with all of this.

[erwinrafael]

If I would have my way, though, DT would do an Images and Words Overture instrumental as intro. But that is asking too much, especially since I will never ever see them live. 

[bosk1]

What if the Opener is "Our New World"? It's been played with Mangini, Last 25 minutes of the album, a crowd pleaser, and been played quite frequently since it's release.

I don't think that can be considered a monster track, by any definition of the term.

Not to mention, the alphabet.  But people seem to be completely disregarding that anyway, so... 

[jsbru]

What if the Opener is "Our New World"? It's been played with Mangini, Last 25 minutes of the album, a crowd pleaser, and been played quite frequently since it's release.

I had thought about that, actually.  It fits most of the hard criteria, but it's a stretch to think of it as a "monster" track (it's shorter, somewhat simple musically, and it's uplifting), and it doesn't seem all that interesting or unusual as an opener--at least to me.

Also, as someone just mentioned, supposedly WMP excludes opening articles while sorting albums, so TA would be at the start of his DT list.

[jsbru]

....and Bosk1 has not discussed the set list with DCOW.

So because Bosk had to repeat this, I'm guessing this is a clue of some sort, but I can't really figure it out at this point.  The only song specifically alluded to by DCOW was ES, in that she was agreeing that it shouldn't be ruled out.  So without discussing the setlist with her, that's the only song he could have known she was considering.

ES fits all the criteria but the Epica one.  Maybe it's not safe to assume Bosk simply let his playlist play naturally.  Maybe he skips a few of the songs in the latter half of ToT. 

[jsbru]

Also jsbru, I can't seem to find the quote from bosk saying that TBP/STR was the only song from DT12 to be played, could you link to that in the thread? Thanks in advance.

My recollection was that it was more explicit, but going back to check, it's more implied.  Twice he referred to STR/TBP as "the DT 12 song" in replies 742 and 826. (emphasis added).

I suppose that could mean "the DT 12 song that we were talking about, excluding the other DT 12 song that I haven't hinted at specifically," but it seems unlikely.

[hefdaddy42]

....and Bosk1 has not discussed the set list with DCOW.

So because Bosk had to repeat this, I'm guessing this is a clue of some sort

Yes, I would think so.

[bosk1]

....and Bosk1 has not discussed the set list with DCOW.

So because Bosk had to repeat this, I'm guessing this is a clue of some sort, but I can't really figure it out at this point.  The only song specifically alluded to by DCOW was ES, in that she was agreeing that it shouldn't be ruled out.  So without discussing the setlist with her, that's the only song he could have known she was considering.

ES fits all the criteria but the Epica one.  Maybe it's not safe to assume Bosk simply let his playlist play naturally.  Maybe he skips a few of the songs in the latter half of ToT. 

No, it was not a clue.

No, my knowledge of what songs she was considering is not limited to what she posted here.  I know exactly what songs/albums she was considering.  That is exactly where the clues should have led her.  She got it 100% right.

Based on the information you have, ES absolutely fits the criteria for the Epica clue.  Not sure how it doesn't.  TOT is clearly near the end of the alphabet.  A couple of other albums are as well.  Octavarium clearly is not.  I have no idea why this concept is so difficult to grasp.

And, no, I wasn't skipping songs.  You guys couldn't possibly know if I was skipping songs, so it wouldn't be fair for me to say that was a legitimate clue if I had skipped songs and thus made the song order/timing arbitrary.