What do you want from DT's music?

[Bertielee]

I agree with Jen.  What I want from DT is what they are best known for.  Progressive metal.  A diversely heavy sound with touches of mellow smoothness and jazzy twists.  Don't know what they are trying to prove with TA, but it's not the DT I once loved.

I think DT is way past the point where they feel like they need to prove anything.  They have done all they can do, and then some, so I think at this point they are writing music that inspires them at the time.  Not that they didn't always do that, but I think they are free of any kind of pressure to prove themselves.

Maybe this is the problem.

IF you see that as a problem, which I don't.

B.Lee

[Rodni Demental]

I want riffage. I don't entirely know what that means but I want more of it.

[mikeyd23]

I agree with Jen.  What I want from DT is what they are best known for.  Progressive metal.  A diversely heavy sound with touches of mellow smoothness and jazzy twists.  Don't know what they are trying to prove with TA, but it's not the DT I once loved.

I think DT is way past the point where they feel like they need to prove anything.  They have done all they can do, and then some, so I think at this point they are writing music that inspires them at the time.  Not that they didn't always do that, but I think they are free of any kind of pressure to prove themselves.

Maybe this is the problem.

The problem is that DT is creating art that inspires them and doesn't cater specifically to you as an individual? Gotcha 

[emtee]

I listened to a cool interview recently with Graham Nash (CSN&Y for those too young to know) and he said he always writes for
himself. This is the key for me. Musicians have to write for themselves and IMO it's the only way your heart and soul can shine
through. If they create music they are passionate about that is all anyone can ask. Whether or not I connect with it is secondary.

[BlackInk]

Maybe this is the problem.

The problem is that DT is creating art that inspires them and doesn't cater specifically to you as an individual? Gotcha 

Well, yeah? I mean, I'm sure it must be great for them to do what they want, but they're not making music that I think feels inspired or inspires me at all, and to me that is the big problem with their music. Not sure what you're laughing about.

[Enigmachine]

Maybe this is the problem.

The problem is that DT is creating art that inspires them and doesn't cater specifically to you as an individual? Gotcha 

Well, yeah? I mean, I'm sure it must be great for them to do what they want, but they're not making music that I think feels inspired or inspires me at all, and to me that is the big problem with their music. Not sure what you're laughing about.

He's laughing at how you think DT not specifically catering specifically to you is a problem (which sounds extremely self-centred, so I'd agree with mikeyd23).

[mikeyd23]

He's laughing at how you think DT not specifically catering specifically to you is a problem (which sounds extremely self-centred, so I'd agree with mikeyd23).

Yup. And...

I think any artist of any kind should make art that is inspiring to them. Otherwise I don't believe their heart would be truly into it.

But for DT in particular, how exactly could they write to please the fan base and not just write what is inspiring to them? The fan base is too diverse. People wanted them to sound more like the old days, but when they put out ADTOE, people complained that the were copy and pasting old song formulas. They switched it up and wrote shorter songs with DT12 and people complained about that...TA might be there most bold leap yet and people complain about it too. Those are just recent examples. Basically, you can't please everyone, especially DT's diverse fan base. So even if they tried to do that, which they haven't and shouldn't how would it work?

[bosk1]

Maybe this is the problem.

The problem is that DT is creating art that inspires them and doesn't cater specifically to you as an individual? Gotcha 

Well, yeah? I mean, I'm sure it must be great for them to do what they want, but they're not making music that I think feels inspired or inspires me at all, and to me that is the big problem with their music. Not sure what you're laughing about.

First, off, quit picking arguments with people who don't agree with you.  You don't like the album?  Fine.  You've made your point.  Others disagree quite strongly, and have said why.  Quit trying to bait people into arguments over it.

Second, I remind you of the forum rules relating to critique of the band and their music:

Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated.  Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it is constructive and does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.

Calling the band and their music "childish," "dull," "embarrassing," etc. do not even remotely qualify as constructive.  Knock it off.

[BlackInk]

Fair enough.

[bluehaze]

What do I want from DT? I want more LTE inspired music with more instrumentals and unison jams or reform LTE. I was never a fan of the ballads and slow songs...too schmaltzy for me. For me, it was the musical passages that attracted me to them. Sonically, I wish their albums weren't mixed so hot. The mixes seem like screaming to me. They need some headway. Just my opinion.

[Enigmachine]

Sonically, I wish their albums weren't mixed so hot. The mixes seem like screaming to me. They need some headway. Just my opinion.

What about TA? Most quiet master since Awake (I think).

[King Postwhore]

Sonically, I wish their albums weren't mixed so hot. The mixes seem like screaming to me. They need some headway. Just my opinion.

What about TA? Most quiet master since Awake (I think).

Since ADTOE.  The drums need some resonance.  Nuances. 

[bluehaze]

Sonically, I wish their albums weren't mixed so hot. The mixes seem like screaming to me. They need some headway. Just my opinion.

What about TA? Most quiet master since Awake (I think). 

I must admit, I am not familiar with the mix of TA as I haven't given it much of a listen and I don't have the album yet. The album is really all that I don't like about some of DT's music. In fact, it's the opposite of the direction I would prefer. Perhaps the reason you think TA is a "quiet" album is because of the ballad/recurring theme style of many of the songs sonically speaking. For me, headroom issues arise when they go from quiet to loud. The sound becomes too compressed and too loud... DT12 was a great example of this. With all that being said, my interest in the band has been waning lately as they haven't been accessible to Florida over the last five years and my opinion of their last tour down here for ADTOE (an album I prefer over their two previous releases), the loss of Portnoy has left a huge hole in the band back center stage. Mangini is a great drummer, but, for me, Portnoy was the heart and soul of the band's presence on stage. It's neither here nor there as it was Portnoy who quit, but that's just the feeling I got out of them with Mangini. I'd like to see a resurrection of LTE for the instrumental nuts like me out there.

[Enigmachine]

Since ADTOE.  The drums need some resonance.  Nuances. 

What are you talking about?

Perhaps the reason you think TA is a "quiet" album is because of the ballad/recurring theme style of many of the songs sonically speaking.

Wrong. Just look at this. It's not 100% accurate but it does show that TA is the quietest master since at least SfaM.

[King Postwhore]

ADTOE wasn't mastered hot as well.

I should have spaced it by saying what I want is the drums to have better resonance.  Nuances to them.

[Enigmachine]

ADTOE wasn't mastered hot as well.

Ok, but TA is mastered quieter.

[King Postwhore]

ADTOE wasn't mastered hot as well.

Ok, but TA is mastered quieter.

Sure but it's still not the most quite master since Awake.  That's all I was saying. ADTOE was in the same boat.

[Enigmachine]

ADTOE wasn't mastered hot as well.

Ok, but TA is mastered quieter.

Sure but it's still not the most quite master since Awake.

I think it might be.

[BlobVanDam]

While there's more to dynamic range than just the number, objectively, TA does have the highest dynamic range since Awake. Due to the modern production with individual tracks being compressed (especially the drums), it may not sound like it though, especially compared to FII or SFAM.

[Adami]

What do I want? Some F# Ionian in 19/4.

[de_fromage]

I actually don't know what I want from DT anymore. I should be loving TA, since I requested strong melodies and proggy stuff before the release. But TA doesn't do much for me.

I feel I kind of settled. I just wait for them to release something. Also TA doesn't made much impact on me.

[bluehaze]

Since ADTOE.  The drums need some resonance.  Nuances. 

What are you talking about?

Perhaps the reason you think TA is a "quiet" album is because of the ballad/recurring theme style of many of the songs sonically speaking.

Wrong. Just look at this. It's not 100% accurate but it does show that TA is the quietest master since at least SfaM.

What is you definition of quiet? Because both of the sound waves look peaked out (the black lines being the wave forms). If by quiet you mean no static or noise due to sound saturation than you miss what I am talking about.  From these peaked out sound waves there is no head room and peaking out usually means clipping. What I am talking about is the space to let the music breathe without giving one ear fatigue. Perhaps I am reading the sound waves wrong, but It looks peaked and clipped. 

[Enigmachine]

Since ADTOE.  The drums need some resonance.  Nuances. 

What are you talking about?

Perhaps the reason you think TA is a "quiet" album is because of the ballad/recurring theme style of many of the songs sonically speaking.

Wrong. Just look at this. It's not 100% accurate but it does show that TA is the quietest master since at least SfaM.

What is you definition of quiet? Because both of the sound waves look peaked out (the black lines being the wave forms). If by quiet you mean no static or noise due to sound saturation than you miss what I am talking about.  From these peaked out sound waves there is no head room and peaking out usually means clipping. What I am talking about is the space to let the music breathe without giving one ear fatigue. Perhaps I am reading the sound waves wrong, but It looks peaked and clipped.

Never said it was quiet. I said it was the quietEST master since Awake. The above is from TA while the below is from SfaM, which looks a bit louder to me. FII I think may also be louder than TA.

[DoctorAction]

I posted this in another thread before but:

I would love it if they went in and recorded a stripped-down, lo-fi record that *really* sounded like great musicians playing together in a room, as far as possible. That goes on less than an hour. Drums that sounds like you're there next to them. The buzz of the amplifiers. No click track. Squeak of fingers on strings. Room ambience. Chatter between tracks. Vocals that aren't doubled/chorused all the time. Real piano. Lyrics that sound like they really matter to them.

They did real piano on TA, i know.

[jakepriest]

Drums that sounds like you're there next to them. The buzz of the amplifiers. No click track. Squeak of fingers on strings. Room ambience. Chatter between tracks. Vocals that aren't doubled/chorused all the time.

I don't think DT is the band if you're looking for this. Tbh who even makes albums like these?

[Enigmachine]

The buzz of the amplifiers.
Squeak of fingers on strings.
Room ambience.
Chatter between tracks.

No way that this will make an album any better. 

Also:

I don't think DT is the band if you're looking for this. Tbh who even makes albums like these?

This.

[Implode]

I have a friend who adores that kind of stuff. He'll criticize an album for sounding too good.

[King Postwhore]

Drums that sounds like you're there next to them. The buzz of the amplifiers. No click track. Squeak of fingers on strings. Room ambience. Chatter between tracks. Vocals that aren't doubled/chorused all the time.

I don't think DT is the band if you're looking for this. Tbh who even makes albums like these?

I think you need to be more open to experimentation.

[jakepriest]

Drums that sounds like you're there next to them. The buzz of the amplifiers. No click track. Squeak of fingers on strings. Room ambience. Chatter between tracks. Vocals that aren't doubled/chorused all the time.

I don't think DT is the band if you're looking for this. Tbh who even makes albums like these?

I think you need to be more open to experimentation.

I like musical experimentation, making an album sound bad isn't experimentation to me. There's a reason I don't listen to The Physicist from Devin Townsend. I like good sounding albums and not something that rips my ears off. 

[DoctorAction]

I'm totally up for musical experimentation. But I just want more of a strpped down feel. Remember when Metallica brought out the Garage Days EP? I'm still blown away by that raw/in the studio feel. And you often get chatter on albums. Thunder, Flying Colours spring to mind as well.

It doesn't have to BE live in the studio. Happy for it to be pretending to be. I just want to feel closer to these guys musical talent. I find their (and lots of other bands) production is often a barrier between me and the good stuff.

[DoctorAction]

And in terms of who and makes albums like this - Iron Maiden is a good example. I believe they recorded (at least the backing tracks of) the last few albums as a unit with no click track live in the studio. If you could get that drum sound and feel. THAT would feel like experimentation and progression to me.

[Logain Ablar]

And in terms of who and makes albums like this - Iron Maiden is a good example. I believe they recorded (at least the backing tracks of) the last few albums as a unit with no click track live in the studio. If you could get that drum sound and feel. THAT would feel like experimentation and progression to me.

I'm pretty much of the opposite opinion when it comes to IM. I'm not really a huge fan of that 'raw' sound at all on the last few albums. For me, Bruce's vocals sound especially 'dry', and there's definitely not as many vocal harmonies as there were on the older albums. I know this is intentionally what they're going for, but it's hard to believe that the same producer produced FII, which I think is one of DT's best sounding albums.

I don't think I'd ever see DT doing a stripped back, raw sounding album, but maybe something like this in EP form, rather than a full album could be interesting.

[Enigmachine]

I'm pretty much of the opposite opinion when it comes to IM. I'm not really a huge fan of that 'raw' sound at all on the last few albums. For me, Bruce's vocals sound especially 'dry', and there's definitely not as many vocal harmonies as there were on the older albums. I know this is intentionally what they're going for, but it's hard to believe that the same producer produced FII, which I think is one of DT's best sounding albums.

I think the same. Kevin Shirley with DT >>>>> Kevin Shirley with IM.

[mikeyd23]

I don't think DT will ever go full-tilt totally raw in the studio, that's just not this band.

I'm totally up for musical experimentation. But I just want more of a strpped down feel. Remember when Metallica brought out the Garage Days EP? I'm still blown away by that raw/in the studio feel. And you often get chatter on albums. Thunder, Flying Colours spring to mind as well.

Garage Days had a raw feel but there's actually a TON of production going on there. Flying Color might have chatter between tracks, but once again they put out polished produced records. You can like those styles of production more, but I just wanted to point out that neither of those example are what you referenced earlier when you said you wanted a true, stripped down, super raw record.

[DoctorAction]

It doesn't have to BE live in the studio. Happy for it to be pretending to be. I just want to feel closer to these guys musical talent. I find their (and lots of other bands) production is often a barrier between me and the good stuff.