Octavarium is Dream Theater's most underrated album.

[Bill]

As a new fan, this is the 4th album I've listened to after TA, I&W and SFAM. I really enjoy it, and think it's really strong. It will have been said a million times before but I Walk Beside You...what is a U2 track doing on. Dream Theater album?

Raising the bar of said album because it's a powerful, uplifting, memorable and catchy song 

Easily in my Top Ten DT songs of all time. 

Perhaps it is because I am also a U2 fan, but honestly, I do not get the reference.  I really don't (I don't see it in "To Live Forever", either).   Maybe it's the inspiration, but I don't hear very much U2 in any of DT's work, to be honest.    Perhaps it's because I think The Edge is a pretty singular guitar player, and I don't hear much of that in Petrucci's work.

I have huge respect for U2, but I don't actively listen to them. I agree there is little in common between The Edge and JP. It really is the rythym that I noticed and the way James phrases in this song, going 'up' at the end of "...walk beside you" . That for me sounds like a Bono-ism.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Is 8VM overrated, underrated, or aptly rated? I guess after we finish rating the songs, we can rate the albums and see once and for all where things stand.

[Enigmachine]

Is 8VM overrated, underrated, or aptly rated? I guess after we finish rating the songs, we can rate the albums and see once and for all where things stand.

I really like it, none of those terms really come to mind for me. Probably aptly-rated relative to my opinion, but I don't like to judge other opinions relative to mine.

[SebastianPratesi]

Perhaps it is because I am also a U2 fan, but honestly, I do not get the reference.  I really don't (I don't see it in "To Live Forever", either).   Maybe it's the inspiration, but I don't hear very much U2 in any of DT's work, to be honest.    Perhaps it's because I think The Edge is a pretty singular guitar player, and I don't hear much of that in Petrucci's work.

I don't consider myself a fan, but I've listened to most of the band's albums (all of them except for Zooropa and No Line On The Horizon), and I think the comparison to U2 might be because:

1. The choruses sound similar to the ones in "Where The Streets Have No Name": they are big / anthemic / uplifting, both are in D major, and there's even this simple melody (the notes are A - G - F# - D) present throughout - in "IWBY" it's played by the keys and guitar, and in "WTSTHNN" it's played by the guitar and with Bono singing 'burning down love'. (Both choruses also share the same chords, albeit in different orders).

2. As for the verses, they remind me of "City Of Blinding Lights", which -as you surely know- came out in November 2004, when Dream Theater were beginning to work on Octavarium. Mike has stated U2 is a band he listens to and takes ideas from, so maybe he liked the Atomic Bomb album and immediately decided to pay tribute to the band.

3. Overall, the guitar parts in "I Walk Beside You" are really simple, with nothing too flashy, sometimes playing repeating patterns in just two strings (like the riff in the intro and verses). That, obviously, reminds of Dave a lot. The bass parts are steady and simple too (mainly playing roots and eighth notes), and the bass is prominently featured in the mix, and both things remind me of Adam a lot (especially in Boy and War). I don't remember reading statements by either John praising Dave or Adam, though, so maybe Mike made suggestions on the style of the song.

As for "To Live Forever", there is some guitar bits with delay (like at 1:35 and the outro), so there is an influence there. Also, I don't know if it has to do with reverb or what (I'm not very good on audio terms), but in the first half of the song - before the heavy guitars come in - there is a strong '80s vibe a la The Unforgettable Fire.

I also think there is a strong U2 influence in "Lifting Shadows Off A Dream", with the guitar playing short, repeating patterns with delay, and some open strings. The choruses (the last one at 4:50 especially), once again, are similar to "When The Streets Have No Name" - anthemic, in the same key, sharing the chord progression, the A-G-F# melodyy, the guitar with delay...

The same with "Take Away My Pain" - the guitar sound in the verse reminds me of the rhythm guitar in "One Tree Hill".
(By the way, how come there's not much U2 talk in this forum? Guess we should start a U2 thread)

[JediKnight1969]

"Octavarium is Dream Theater's most underrated album."

No is not, since 8V (the song) is one of the most beloved DT songs.

Systematic Chaos is the most underrated album. 2nd one is FII.

[Outcrier]

Octavarium is in the upper middle half of the consensus ranking (just below the big four and together with ADTOE). It's only underrated if you think it should be higher.

[JediKnight1969]

The big four:

Images & Words
Scenes from a memory
Six degrees of inner turbulence
Awake

Then:

Octavarium
A dramatic turn of events
Falling into infinity
Train of thought

Finally:

Systematic chaos
Black clouds & silver linings
Dream Theater
When dream and day unite

I can't rate The Astonishing yet.

[JustJen]

I'm a big fan of this album.

[hefdaddy42]

This album is OK at best, although the title track is among the best songs DT have ever produced.

Definitely a mixed bag. 

[soupytwist]

I'd say 'A Dramatic Turn of Events' in the underrated one.  It sits on Metacritic on a pathetic 55 (The Astonishing is on 80).

[McNugg]

I'd say 'A Dramatic Turn of Events' in the underrated one.  It sits on Metacritic on a pathetic 55 (The Astonishing is on 80).

wow that really surprises me!  Love everything about ADToE and I always thought that it was generally considered a pretty decent return to form by folk.

[shadystraz360]

These Walls is my all time favourite DT song..... It has everything from POWER to EMOTION... Everytime I hear it, I have to just stop and listen... Pure class

[jakepriest]

These Walls is my all time favourite DT song..... It has everything from POWER to EMOTION... Everytime I hear it, I have to just stop and listen... Pure class

You will get along with Lucien.

[jasc15]

This album is OK at best, although the title track is among the best songs DT have ever produced.

Definitely a mixed bag. 

Came to post essentially this.  Concise as usual from hef.

I realize I only really listen to the title track.  Sometimes I will listen to TALW because its lyrics hit me at a particular time in my life and may have helped force me to take action to improve things.

[Outcrier]

I'd say 'A Dramatic Turn of Events' in the underrated one.  It sits on Metacritic on a pathetic 55 (The Astonishing is on 80).

wow that really surprises me!  Love everything about ADToE and I always thought that it was generally considered a pretty decent return to form by folk.

I already mentioned it in this thread but, again: ADTOE and Octavarium are just below the big four in the consensus ranking of DTF.

[Enigmachine]

I'd say 'A Dramatic Turn of Events' in the underrated one.  It sits on Metacritic on a pathetic 55 (The Astonishing is on 80).

wow that really surprises me!  Love everything about ADToE and I always thought that it was generally considered a pretty decent return to form by folk.

I already mentioned it in this thread but, again: ADTOE and Octavarium are just below the big four in the consensus ranking of DTF.

That's just DTF, though. By 'folk', I'm assuming that McNugg means the general DT fanbase.

[Outcrier]

Well, DTF is probably the closest we have to that. If you want to be more precise, good luck 

[jakepriest]

Well, DTF is probably the closest we have to that. If you want to be more precise, good luck 

I actually think people who go to band forums are not the typical fanbase but more like the hardcore part of it, which should be a minority.

[Outcrier]

Of couse but reuniting the opinion of million of fans is kinda out of reach so we end up sticking with what we can do.

[red barchetta]

As a new fan, this is the 4th album I've listened to after TA, I&W and SFAM. I really enjoy it, and think it's really strong. It will have been said a million times before but I Walk Beside You...what is a U2 track doing on. Dream Theater album?

Ya that really sounds like U2 but fortunaly they did not make the whole album like that.

[red barchetta]

Good album, epic masterpiece title track. I always like to play it on drums. Among my favorite album of DT

[Progmetty]

I'd replace underrated with overrated and I think the title track is giving it the boost to the high overrated stature the album has and a total sum of around 5 minutes of that title track are giving said track all the credit it gets.
The only song I listen to regularly from Octavarium is The Root of All Evil, but I don't generally hate the album.

[Lucien]

These Walls is my all time favourite DT song..... It has everything from POWER to EMOTION... Everytime I hear it, I have to just stop and listen... Pure class

You will get along with Lucien.

God, people still remember that? lol

[BlobVanDam]

I'd replace underrated with overrated and I think the title track is giving it the boost to the high overrated stature the album has and a total sum of around 5 minutes of that title track are giving said track all the credit it gets.

Nope. The title track is amazingly written from start to finish (I don't even know what 5 minutes you'd single out), and even that aside, the album has several other excellent tracks. In the DT song ratings, I gave 4 other songs on the album a 9/10, and I don't rank the album overall higher than the average.

These Walls is my all time favourite DT song..... It has everything from POWER to EMOTION... Everytime I hear it, I have to just stop and listen... Pure class

You will get along with Lucien.

God, people still remember that? lol

What's this all about then?

[jakepriest]

These Walls is my all time favourite DT song..... It has everything from POWER to EMOTION... Everytime I hear it, I have to just stop and listen... Pure class

You will get along with Lucien.

God, people still remember that? lol

What's this all about then?

I'm pretty sure you were following Lucien's top DT songs list too. 

[BlobVanDam]

These Walls is my all time favourite DT song..... It has everything from POWER to EMOTION... Everytime I hear it, I have to just stop and listen... Pure class

You will get along with Lucien.

God, people still remember that? lol

What's this all about then?

I'm pretty sure you were following Lucien's top DT songs list too. 

Nope, I actually rarely read top DT song lists. So I'll just say that These Walls is amazing.

[jakepriest]

Nope, I actually rarely read top DT song lists. So I'll just say that These Walls is amazing.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=37278.msg1651057#msg1651057

[BlobVanDam]

Clearly I have an awful, awful memory.

[hefdaddy42]

lol

[King Postwhore]

Blob,  I love you. Welcome to old age.

[BlobVanDam]

Blob,  I love you. Welcome to old age.

Aw, I preferred it back when I was only a voluntary fogey.

Dammit, and now I'm reminiscing like a fogey!

Speaking of reminiscing, how about the good old days of the Octavarium subforum. Good times, guys.

[lovethedrake]

To each his own but I personally find Octavarium to be Dream Theater at its least inspired.    The title track is enjoyable but the rest of the album is majorly sub par IMO.  I actually went back to the CD Store because I thought my CD was broken.. that's how much I disliked the production.     

Octavarium and ADTOE are the two DT albums that I have always scratched my head at as to why they get so much love.   At least ADTOE doesn't sound so derivative though.  Why DT chose to sound like The Killers, Muse, and U2 on any album is beyond me.

Take Octavarium title track and Breaking All Illusions off those two albums and there is little left to call inspired.  Although I do love the bridge in TALW

Falling Into Infinity is undoubtedly the most underrated DT album.   Sure they have a few crap "commercial" tracks thrown in there, but the production is amazing and there are plenty of genuine DT classics (Peruvian Skies, Hells Kitchen, Lines in the Sand, Anna Lee, Trial of Tears)

This is just my two cents.  I will still play Octavarium once in a while because any DT album is worth listening to.  I just personally find it to rank towards the bottom with ADTOE and SC.   For frame of reference my album ranking is listed below:

1. SFAM
2. I&W
3. SDOIT
4. TA
5. Awake
6. FII
7. TOT
8. DT
9. WDADU
10. BC&SL
11. ADTOE
12. Octavarium
13. SC