I've got a confession to make...

[Madman Shepherd]

I still haven't even listened to the second disc of the Astonishing. 

Roadrunner didn't send me my disc until a few days after it was released and by then I was too busy to sit down and listen to it  I didn't want to listen to it in segments so I kept putting it off.  Finally, I had a little time when I had to run to the store so I decided to drive around and ended up listening to all of disc one.  The hype had died way down, and I couldn't comprehend the story on a deep level (i mean, I know the basics....but why do I care about Faythe and Azrael and Nazareth?)  There were moments where I really got into it and then that all died down again. 

Anyway, I planned to listen to disc 2 when I had time...and then I had time, a lot of time actually, and just never cared to go back and find out what disc 2 is all about.  I did read the story on the official website and so...well....I guess I know how it all ends. 

I just can't bring myself to care about this album which is odd considering I think ADTOE is DT's best album.  So I should be into everything this line up does, right?

So at this point, I am thinking about just waiting until the show to listen to the second part.  My friend I am going with hates the album and would probably not go and eat the cost if I had anyone else to go with.  If I hadn't already bought my ticket, I would consider skipping it altogether, something I haven't done for a DT show that rolled through town since 2006. 

I do not hate the album, I just can't even really consider it a DT album.  Obviously it is, but it is just so....different and unsatisfying. 

Anybody else in the same boat?

[BlobVanDam]

I do not hate the album, I just can't even really consider it a DT album.  Obviously it is, but it is just so....different and unsatisfying. 

In before people tell you you're just listening to it wrong because it's a rock opera.

I listened to both discs at first, but disc 2 never grabbed me, so I haven't listened to it much. Maybe hearing it live will give you a push to listen to it.

[Outcrier]

If you didn't liked Disc 1, i don't think Disc 2 will change your mind about the album.

[Dream Team]

Who the hell are Azrael and Nazareth?

[ariich]

I do not hate the album, I just can't even really consider it a DT album.  Obviously it is, but it is just so....different and unsatisfying. 

Isn't it a little hard to make that judgement if you haven't finished listening to it?

If you didn't liked Disc 1, i don't think Disc 2 will change your mind about the album.

Not sure I'd agree with that, everyone has different tastes and a number of people prefer disc 2, though fewer than prefer disc 1.

[KevShmev]

Anybody else in the same boat?

No.  The Astonishing is a very satisfying album musically, and is very much a DT album.  You're missing out.

[Prog Snob]

Anybody else in the same boat?

It took me a few listens to really appreciate it. At first, I was a bit disappointed with some of the tracks. Now, I absolutely adore the whole thing. I think you should give it a few listens. It's a lot to take in all at once. Even Belladonna would have to take in something this massive a bit at a time.

[bosk1]

Yeah, I'm with the last three that posted above me.  It seems a bit odd to me to make a judgment about the album when you haven't even listened to half of it (well, okay, more like 1/3 of it, but still).  I mean, if you weren't a fan of the band and weren't liking it after disk 1, fine.  But for a fan to listen to part of it, and then write off the rest...that just makes no sense to me.

[cramx3]

I think it's too hard to judge the album after one listen, even if it is only disc 1.  I don't see disc 2 to be any different, but I don't think you gave it much of an opportunity personally.

This album doesn't blow you away on a first listen like every other DT album has, for me.  Lack of chorus and the crazy instrumental sections that we all know of DT, but it is very strong in many other areas (musical themes throughout the album, catchy vocal melodies, diverse songs).  It's definitely DT and DT-like, just feels like impossible to understand on first listen.  That's just me though.

[Bertielee]

As said by many above me, judge the album that quickly is simply impossible. It took me a while to digest, but after almost 2 months, I'm still listening to it, something that hadn't happened to me in a long time with a DT album. And the assumption "it's not DT" doesn't hold for me. I've been a fan for 23 years and I've heard the same thing for Awake, Falling Into Infinity and, hell, even for Train of Thought. And I consider these 3 albums to be very much DT, albeit a different side of DT.

B.Lee

[bosk1]

Yeah, that too.  I mean, I don't wanna go to "If you haven't listened to it 10 times before judging it, you're doing it wrong!"  And I'm also not a fan of telling someone to listen to something multiple times to basically try to find reasons to like it if their initial reaction is that they don't like it.  I know for me, that doesn't work, so I don't expect it to work for others.  But at the same time, I think it simply isn't something that can be digested enough to form an educated opinion about after a couple of listens.  If you aren't a fan of the band, and don't really care for what you hear, fine.  Move along.  But if you are a fan and it isn't grabbing you, invest the time to form an educated opinion before writing it off.

[TAC]

Anybody else in the same boat?

No.  The Astonishing is a very satisfying album musically, and is very much a DT album.  You're missing out.

Yup. The thing has been an endless loop. Wherever I drop the needle, greatness follows.

[erwinrafael]

Maybe try to listen to it in chunks? Like stop whenever there is a NOMAC track as these tracks divide the album in neat sections, then try to digest it?

[Sacul]

I'm in the same boat - I just can't believe DT did such a cheesy album. I mean, it's better than DT12 and ADTOE imo, but those albums underwhelm me, so it's not that much of a difference. I occasionally spin Three Days tho.

[cramx3]

The lyrics can be cheesy at times, but I don't get the sense that the album as a whole is cheesy.

[Sacul]

It's like a Disney movie, or a 15yo fanfic that lasts two hours and has too many ballads

[Madman Shepherd]

I think some of you are missing my point.  Obviously I am not making a definitive judgment like, "This is terrible!  I can't even be bothered to listen to the rest of it!" I'm as surprised as the rest of you.  I am simply stating that of the half (or 2/3) of the album I have heard, I just don't really dig it.  I, personally, feel like it is more of a side project than a DT album.  Now, once again, this is not a definitive statement as if to say that I won't even put it with the rest of my DT collection, it is just a feeling that I have which is surprising as I have been a diehard for well over a decade.  I know all about needing to take the time to digest something.  For the first 4 years I was into DT, I was more of a casual fan so I am not writing this album off and have no desire to get rid of it (like my friend is considering doing...which is shocking to me and not something I would ever consider even if I hated it). 

Maybe try to listen to it in chunks? Like stop whenever there is a NOMAC track as these tracks divide the album in neat sections, then try to digest it?

I've thought about that but it just seems wrong, especially on the first listen.  maybe after I see the show I will do that.  Or maybe I will give in and just do it. 

Here are a few observations so far:

Mangini gives a very emotional performance.  There has been a lot of criticism of the sound of his drums on ADTOE (too stale) and DT12 (too loud) but there is so much variation, I'm surprised at how much emotion he can convey.  I really don't see how anyone could accuse him of not playing with "feel" after this album. 

A Life Left Behind is an AMAZING song.  This is the only song other than the Gift of Music I could even name.  Both are excellent but ALLB I think is among DT's best. 

Obviously the musicianship is top notch as always and this was an amazing undertaking, so any criticism I have is not for any perceived lack of effort or talent. 

[Shooters1221]

Who the hell are Azrael and Nazareth?

Seriously though, I am not in the same boat as I loved this from spin 1. I do not agree with the "its not DT" statement. There are soooooo many DT isms on this album. It is a different approach but I think they needed that freshness, so to speak. Hey, if it's not for you then that's fine too.

[IdoSC]

In regard to the album itself, I'd say it's perfectly okay if you couldn't relate to it, y'know. Normally DT albums and general concept albums deserve more than one listen to reach a definitive conclusion, but if on the first listen you couldn't relate to it *at all* and now you feel underwhelmed about more listens, it's perfectly valid too.

As far as the concert goes, though; if you still plan on going to it, I'd force myself through the entire album at least twice more if I were you. Either that or I'd sell the ticket. Being in a live show with songs you're completely unfamiliar with is usually an unpleasant experience, at least for me. Even more so when the *entire* show is from a single, unfamiliar, concept album, you don't know the lyrics and story by the detail, you didn't read the extra story bits from the website, etc. You'd be busy reading lyrics instead of seeing the show or being disinterested most of the time.

[Madman Shepherd]

Good advice.  Although occasionally there are shows I go to and I see a new band I've never heard of and I am just enthralled through the whole thing.  Thats why I was considering just not even listening so I an be surprised.  But you're right, it could easily go the other way. 

I did read the whole concept on the website so I am vaguely familiar with it so I wouldn't be too lost.

[cramx3]

Personally, I'd rather listen and understand before going.  As I learned in grade school, when going to see a musical on broadway, it is best to learn the music and understand what is going on before seeing the performance.  (8th or 7th grade, legit we learned the music to Cats and then a field trip to see it on Broadway, and on a side note, I so wished I paid more attention and cared about things like this when I was young because that is an experience I'll never get for free again).

But to each their own.  I also know I often like songs more when I see them live than the reverse (I actually can't think of a song I liked less after seeing it live).

[FsF]

You're not missing much...

[RoeDent]

I don't get it when people pull the "It's not DT" card, for anything they do. As if they're confined to a particular sound, and they're not allowed to do something a bit different. If you're looking for  BLAAAGHMETALEVERYONESURVIVEDROOOAR Train of Thought/BC&SL Pt. 2, go back to Train of Thought or BC&SL. This is The Astonishing, and it's another facet of this magnificent band's legacy.

As for repeated listening, in full, that's the only way to really appreciate the album. Every album takes repeated listens to fully grasp it. If you're willing to put in the hours to let The Astonishing work its magic on you, I salute you.

[Train of Naught]

In regard to the album itself, I'd say it's perfectly okay if you couldn't relate to it, y'know. Normally DT albums and general concept albums deserve more than one listen to reach a definitive conclusion, but if on the first listen you couldn't relate to it *at all* and now you feel underwhelmed about more listens, it's perfectly valid too.

As far as the concert goes, though; if you still plan on going to it, I'd force myself through the entire album at least twice more if I were you. Either that or I'd sell the ticket. Being in a live show with songs you're completely unfamiliar with is usually an unpleasant experience, at least for me. Even more so when the *entire* show is from a single, unfamiliar, concept album, you don't know the lyrics and story by the detail, you didn't read the extra story bits from the website, etc. You'd be busy reading lyrics instead of seeing the show or being disinterested most of the time.

I wouldn't say this, unless it's music you already know is not your cup of tea, or the performance is just bad. But then again, if that's the case, and OP has to force himself to listen to an album he wasn't impressed with in the first place just to familiarize himself with the material for a concert: Why bother even going to the concert at all?

[Prog Snob]

I don't get it when people pull the "It's not DT" card, for anything they do. As if they're confined to a particular sound, and they're not allowed to do something a bit different. If you're looking for  BLAAAGHMETALEVERYONESURVIVEDROOOAR Train of Thought/BC&SL Pt. 2, go back to Train of Thought or BC&SL. This is The Astonishing, and it's another facet of this magnificent band's legacy.

When people use the "it's not DT" card it makes me think they've only listened to one or two Dream Theater albums.

[Stadler]

Interesting, because I'm right in the middle.  I don't buy the ideas that "this isn't DT"; of course it is. I don't buy the ideas about "song length" and what not, because there is almost no correlation between "good song" and "song length".  I don't buy the ideas about the "story ruining it"; I haven't looked at the lyrics once yet (doesn't help that I spilled shit on the booklet and the pages are stuck together! Hahahaha!).

But....   I just listened to Side 2 for the first time on Tuesday (a week ago).   I just couldn't get the initiative to sit and listen to the whole thing all the way through.   And while there are some truths here - if you don't like Side 1, Side 2 isn't going to change anything for you - my jury is still out as to how much I'm going to go back to this.    I don't know if more "theme repetition" would be better - The Lamb doesn't really repeat any themes, and it is one of my favorite concept albums ever - but it is REALLY sprawling, and I know me well enough that it won't come if I don't force it. 

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I don't get it when people pull the "It's not DT" card, for anything they do.

People often forget what progressive music is all about. Progressive music is not about long songs, weird time signatures and complex harmonic/melodic structures; it's about change and evolution.

In that line of thought, I can easily say The Astonishing is the most 'progressive' release they've done in a long while.

[IdoSC]

Good advice.  Although occasionally there are shows I go to and I see a new band I've never heard of and I am just enthralled through the whole thing.  Thats why I was considering just not even listening so I an be surprised.  But you're right, it could easily go the other way. 

To me personally that's unlikely, but still possible. Hell, I didn't know about 50% of the songs on my first DT show and still had lots of fun. But I kinda think The Astonishing Live will be different, because again, it's not just a random concert with a mixed selection from different unfamiliar albums...it's one album, one concept, all the songs are stringed together, plus this show is relatively more tame compared to previous DT shows and it's more about presenting the story intimately. I'm not saying you won't have fun, of course it's possible that we're completely different about that - and if you read the website descriptions previously you may be good to go (it honestly gives out more details than the lyrics), but that's just my 2 cents about it.

This is also a reply to Train of Naught, by the way - it's a shame that you kinda left out the last few words of the sentence in bold, "at least for me". I mean, of course some people may not mind being unfamiliar and still rock it out just as much, I'm just sharing my personal feelings about the matter - I'd enjoy a concert of a genre I like either way, but more so if I'm familiar with the music. Especially if it's conceptual.

[erwinrafael]

MS, give Disc 2 a listen. Some are saying that if you don't like Disc 1, Disc 2 won't make much of a difference. I disagree. Disc 2 has more of the recent DT feel ala Behind The Veil. And it has this one standout 90s-sounding song, Our New World.

[Illegalastronaught]

I don't get it when people pull the "It's not DT" card, for anything they do.

People often forget what progressive music is all about. Progressive music is not about long songs, weird time signatures and complex harmonic/melodic structures; it's about change and evolution.

In that line of thought, I can easily say The Astonishing is the most 'progressive' release they've done in a long while.

If that's how you define progressive, the DT's discography is not progressive, it's rather regressive.

As for The "Astonishing", transitioning to pop song structures and melodies from the mostly complex music they're played over the past 30 years (which isn't all great) to pop metal is anything BUT progressive.

[Prog Snob]

I don't get it when people pull the "It's not DT" card, for anything they do.

People often forget what progressive music is all about. Progressive music is not about long songs, weird time signatures and complex harmonic/melodic structures; it's about change and evolution.

In that line of thought, I can easily say The Astonishing is the most 'progressive' release they've done in a long while.

Most people don't know what makes something progressive. They toss that label around rather capriciously. Bands like Dream Theater have caused some of their fans to create this narrow-minded view of what makes music progressive. Like you said above, it's not just about long songs and bouncing back and forth between time signatures. Yes, those can be qualities of progressive music, but if a band does that album after album with no discernible sign of ingenuity, it really isn't progressive then, is it?

[Anguyen92]

I think what makes something progressive is challenging the norm.  Pretty much doing the stuff that you feel like can be ambitious that no one really had any idea that you were going to do it at all.  Back to say like, last year, when we were all talking about what sort of sound that DT13 could go into, some were probably concern that DT would not do anything ambitious for a fear that DT would not have its signature DT sound and play it safe to that.  Fast-forward, they did something like The Astonishing where, yes, some people probably thought it would be a full-on concept album, but I do not think they ever would imagine that the whole concept would be this elaborate.

Another note, to me, progressive music can be classified as putting everything on the line, maybe risking fanbase alienation, maybe some die-hards probably would not like it, maybe even hate it, but the band did it because they felt that this was the direction that they want to explore and enjoy and they are putting all on the line (fanbase, finance, reputation, etc.) to achieve that.  I think Dream Theater should be proud of what they had constructed in The Astonishing and if long-time fans do not get it, oh well.

Just my two cents.

[erwinrafael]

I don't get it when people pull the "It's not DT" card, for anything they do.

People often forget what progressive music is all about. Progressive music is not about long songs, weird time signatures and complex harmonic/melodic structures; it's about change and evolution.

In that line of thought, I can easily say The Astonishing is the most 'progressive' release they've done in a long while.

If that's how you define progressive, the DT's discography is not progressive, it's rather regressive.

As for The "Astonishing", transitioning to pop song structures and melodies from the mostly complex music they're played over the past 30 years (which isn't all great) to pop metal is anything BUT progressive.

It depends on the level from where you are looking at. Comparing individual song to individual song, sure, TA songs seem simpler. But TA is written not on an individual song basis but rather as a full album. From that perspective of taking the writing POV as your level of analysis, TA is the most complex musical piece they have ever written. Definitely NOT regressive.

[CDrice]

It depends on the level from where you are looking at. Comparing individual song to individual song, sure, TA songs seem simpler.

It depends what you means by a song being simpler. A lot of the 10 minutes song Dream Theater wrote in the past were basically structured like basic songs with an Intro/Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Solo/Chorus. They just have lenghty intros and instrumental sections in the middle. In that regard, you could say that songs like A Better Life, The Path That Divides or Ravenskill are more complex from a structure perspective than say Sacrificed Sons, Bridges in the Sky or even The Count of Tuscany.

But either way, simpler doesn't equal worse.

[erwinrafael]

It depends on the level from where you are looking at. Comparing individual song to individual song, sure, TA songs seem simpler.

It depends what you means by a song being simpler. A lot of the 10 minutes song Dream Theater wrote in the past were basically structured like basic songs with an Intro/Verse/Chorus/Verse/Chorus/Solo/Chorus. They just have lenghty intros and instrumental sections in the middle. In that regard, you could say that songs like A Better Life, The Path That Divides or Ravenskill are more complex from a structure perspective than say Sacrificed Sons, Bridges in the Sky or even The Count of Tuscany.

But either way, simpler doesn't equal worse.

I agree with you. That is why I said they "seem" simpler, just responding to Illegalastronaught's use of the word "complex" in describing the non-TA DT songs.