Major Insight Into DT's Full History

[Mark Levinson Jr.]

I thought I was a fan who had "everything DT ever did", but I really didn't. In the last week, I've introduced myself to:

1. The "Falling Into Infinity Demos"
2. "Once in a LIVEtime"
3. The "Score" 20th Anniversary documentary
4. The "Majesty Demos"

I've heard and seen bits and pieces of these over the years, but never really sat down and paid good enough attention to them. Now, I realize that I had been wrong about some major things in DT's history. Only now after decades of being a fan have I had these revelations:

1. Derek Sherinian was not just a hired hand who made one album considered "too commercialized" (FII). He was a great personality to have in the band at that time, and his live work stands on its own merit as a worthwhile period of the bands evolution.

2. I always thought that Charlie Dominici sang on the Majesty demos, but it was Chris Collins. Chris was "an old friend from the neighborhood", like Kevin Moore, and truly counted as the bands first singer.

3. The whole timeline of when Metropolis and Change of Seasons were written is so weird, due the fact that they spent so many years with no singer (or looking for one).Charlie Dominici sang live performances of material that wound up on Images and Words. I had no idea. Derek Shrerinian plays on the 20 minute Metropolis instrumental on the FII Demos. That fact is going to just blow my mind for weeks to come.

4. On "Score". I always thought that "Another Won" was from WDADU, but it was a much earlier song. The DVD even shows the Majesty logo on the screen, but I just never noticed!  I also never knew that "Raise the Knife" was cut from FII.... another song I just assumed was from WDADU without even checking. That audience must have been freaking out!

5. Cut from "Awake" was the song "Eve", which is helpful in understanding Kevin Moore's musical influence on the band. I used to think he contributed lyrics more than anything.

6. "To Live Forever", cut from "Awake", is some unique songwriting for the time, and a highlight on "Greatest Hit ... and 21 other pretty cool songs" that I just missed for some reason.


Before I realized all this, I always considered "When Dream and Day Unite" to be a bit like Rush's first album.... a rough sketch of what would eventually become great. Now I see that there is so much history leading up to that, and it really represents an end to the first era of the band. So eye-opening.

Lastly, The Falling Into Infinity Demos are as great as everyone says. This weekend, I'm going to listen to them, Once in a LIVEtime and Change of Seasons again and really enjoy the "middle keyboard player" era, which is so much more meaningful than I realized. All of the material from the demos, live albums, and singles have really filled in the missing pieces for me. Just an incredible week for me.

[bosk1]

A couple of minor corrections to the above:

-Eve:  I don't believe it was truly "cut" from Awake.  If I am remembering correctly, the band created it sometime after I&W, but it did not ever really progress to the point of officially being considered for release on Awake or any other album.  I could be mistaken, but that is my understanding.

-To Live Forever:  It was actually demoed way back in 1988.  There are several versions out there, including the 1988 demo with Charlie singing it on the WDADU demos.  Charlie also performed it live several times:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=28382.0  That is why it is one of the two songs Charlie guests on at the WDADRU show.  It was appropriate to bring it out and have him sing on it because he performed it way back when he was in the band.


Some other GREAT sources of information you may want to check out if you have not already:  Lifting Shadows band bio (book); liner notes from the other Demos series albums from Ytsejam; liner notes and commentary in WDADRU DVD and CD; commentary on LSFNY.

[Setlist Scotty]

4. On "Score". I always thought that "Another Won" was from WDADU, but it was a much earlier song. The DVD even shows the Majesty logo on the screen, but I just never noticed!  I also never knew that "Raise the Knife" was cut from FII.... another song I just assumed was from WDADU without even checking. That audience must have been freaking out!

I'm guessing you didn't notice this, but all the setlists from the Evening With legs of that tour (beginning in Europe in the autumn of 2005) were put together chronologically, aside from the opening song (or two) and the encore. So most people would've known that RtK wasn't from WDaDU, altho they may not have known it was cut from FII.

Lastly, The Falling Into Infinity Demos are as great as everyone says. This weekend, I'm going to listen to them, Once in a LIVEtime and Change of Seasons again and really enjoy the "middle keyboard player" era, which is so much more meaningful than I realized. All of the material from the demos, live albums, and singles have really filled in the missing pieces for me. Just an incredible week for me.

If you're really interested in digging into the "middle keyboard player" era, there's several other things you'd probably be interested in listening to - specifically both official and unofficial bootlegs. Among the official bootlegs, there is:
• Making of FII - originally the 1997 Fan Club CD, it was re-released as an official bootleg with different packaging
• 10/28/95 Tokyo, Japan - cool for the complete performance of ACoS, a medley of covers and a few other things
• 12/14/96 Birch Hill, NJ - featuring several FII songs in their original state, plus several older songs that were changed around significantly
• 5/18/98 Los Angeles, CA - not a great bootleg (JL's performance is lacking) but good if you are wanting to cover all the bases

Among the unofficial bootlegs that you can find circulating, here are some soundboard recordings that are worth checking out, ranging in quality from decent to awesome:
• 1/23/95 Tokyo, Japan - FYI, the following day is more widely circulated, but the sound of the recording is far superior and has the added bonus of a cover of In the Flesh?
• 1/31/95 London, England - complete Uncovered show (part of which is on the ACoS CD); sound quality is not the greatest, but it's still cool to hear all the other songs that were performed and without the doctoring done in the studio
• 6/13/95 - Lido Breach, NY which is a decent recording that has an instrumental excerpt of RtK (then known as Showdown) in the set

While they aren't officially available any more, you might also try digging around for the 1996 and 1998 Fan Club CDs. The former has 3 of the songs from the Uncovered show, fully mixed and doctored, plus opening and closing messages from the band sans JL. The latter is like a companion piece to OiaL, featuring a few songs from the Paris gig that OiaL was recorded at, plus many others recorded a few days before in the Netherlands.

And finally, there are a few audience recorded bootlegs that are also worth searching out:
• 10/25/94 Toronto, ON - an early Waking Up the World Tour show at the beginning of Derek's first tour, which features an improv jam between him, JP and JM while MP was backstage getting his back worked on after throwing it out; sound quality is not great, but still listenable
• 1/16/98 Tokyo, Japan - great quality recording that includes one of the rare performances of You Not Me, JP playing part of Beyond This Life in an embryonic form and a Nightmare Cinema performance of Perfect Strangers and the only time they ever played part of Ozzy's Suicide Solution
• any of the 5 shows from December 1998 (26th thru 30th) which were pseudo unplugged shows, having the band in a more relaxed mood, playing several B-sides and rarer songs, plus some covers
 
 

A couple of minor corrections to the above:

-Eve:  I don't believe it was truly "cut" from Awake.  If I am remembering correctly, the band created it sometime after I&W, but it did not ever really progress to the point of officially being considered for release on Awake or any other album.  I could be mistaken, but that is my understanding.

-To Live Forever:  It was actually demoed way back in 1988.  There are several versions out there, including the 1988 demo with Charlie singing it on the WDADU demos.  Charlie also performed it live several times:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=28382.0  That is why it is one of the two songs Charlie guests on at the WDADRU show.  It was appropriate to bring it out and have him sing on it because he performed it way back when he was in the band.

Correct on all accounts.

Eve was actually written and premiered live 23 years ago today, and played regularly for the Music in Progress legs of the tour in 1993. There is nothing to indicate that they ever planned on saving it to be used on the actual Awake album, other than as a B-side.

Regarding TLF, it was actually intended to be on Images and Words, not Awake. However, while the band had some downtime before going into the studio to record IaW, they wrote four more songs (PMU, Surrounded, AD and WfS). Ultimately, AD replaced TLF, and Surrounded replaced Don't Look Past Me. By the time they got around to recording Awake, it seems they already had enough material written, but decided to record it with the intentions of using it as a B-side.

[DragonAttack]

A little 'Nightmare' for ya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxtwyYuPK_4

[Mark Levinson Jr.]

Some other GREAT sources of information you may want to check out if you have not already:  Lifting Shadows band bio (book); liner notes from the other Demos series albums from Ytsejam; liner notes and commentary in WDADRU DVD and CD; commentary on LSFNY.

Thanks for the info. That Lifting Shadows bio looks really nice, and I have a birthday coming up!

[Mark Levinson Jr.]

• 10/28/95 Tokyo, Japan - cool for the complete performance of ACoS, a medley of covers and a few other things
• 12/14/96 Birch Hill, NJ - featuring several FII songs in their original state, plus several older songs that were changed around significantly
• 5/18/98 Los Angeles, CA - not a great bootleg (JL's performance is lacking) but good if you are wanting to cover all the bases

Wow, Tokyo and LA sure have some crazy setlists! I've always liked the tributes and medleys.

[TodJam]

Derek talked about his music carrier on Dean Delray's podcast.
His time with DT was very short but I like his contribution on FII and live performances.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/199-derek-sherinian-keyboardist/id546210508?i=352229713&mt=2

[chaossystem]

I don't really consider five years, or the better part of five years to be all that short. A lot of good things don't last nearly that long. A lot of bands don't last that long, or put out that much good music in five years, if you count Once in LiveTime. Just look at Metalkica: it took them from 1996 with ReLoad, which I think has a few good songs on it to 2003 to put out St. Anger, which most people agree was their WORST album ever, and finally to 2008 with Death Magnetic, to at least get closer to what they SHOULD sound like. That was a span of about TWELVE years, in which they did less than DT did from about 1994 to 1999.

[Adami]

I don't really consider five years, or the better part of five years to be all that short. A lot of good things don't last nearly that long. A lot of bands don't last that long, or put out that much good music in five years, if you count Once in LiveTime. Just look at Metalkica: it took them from 1996 with ReLoad, which I think has a few good songs on it to 2003 to put out St. Anger, which most people agree was their WORST album ever, and finally to 2008 with Death Magnetic, to at least get closer to what they SHOULD sound like. That was a span of about TWELVE years, in which they did less than DT did from about 1994 to 1999.

DT released 2 albums in that time frame.

[Cyclopssss]

Great observations and thank you for bringing it up. Somehow Derek´s stint with the band are often criminally overlooked in my opinion. They produced some amazing quality material in that timeframe.  Plus, he was quite the character something I sometimes deerly miss in the current line-up.

[Stadler]

One of the funniest things I've ever heard (I believe it is on the "Making of..." Fan Clubs CD) was Derek - who's voice is a DEAD RINGER for my best friend from law school (and concert buddy) - conversing with either Mike or Kevin (I'll look it up):

"Hey Derek, whatcha doing?"
"Making history.  And you?"

I love that. 

[Tomislav95]

One of the funniest things I've ever heard (I believe it is on the "Making of..." Fan Clubs CD) was Derek - who's voice is a DEAD RINGER for my best friend from law school (and concert buddy) - conversing with either Mike or Kevin (I'll look it up):

"Hey Derek, whatcha doing?"
"Making history.  And you?"

I love that.

It's from 5 Years in a Livetime if I remember correctly. His dance is epic, too. At the end he yells: "Show business is my life!"

[Cyclopssss]

Wasn´t that during an earthquake?

[Iceyice]

Wow. Interesting stuff.
I agree about Sherinian. I believe his style was more cut out for a band he played in later, the GREAT Black Country Communion.
It's so clear now years later that Jordan is the perfect keyboardist for this band as he took them to another level. Without knowing Kevin Moore, he seemed like the overly serious brooding type, imo.

Thanks for this thread, as i will look into a lot of this stuff.