The Astonishing live and lack of an encore...

[El Barto]

I think a part of the problem with these comparisons is that Dream Theater doesn't seem to be presenting it as a rock opera (what I'd properly call the thing). They're presenting it as a rock concert consisting of a concept a giant piece of music. Waters had a whole spectacle going on around them when they did The Wall. Queensryche had actors and staging gong on. Genesis had them standing around in the dark looking like creepy androgynous weirdos.  DT's just going out on stage and playing the thing, with some videos going on behind them (at least from the 30 second of clips I've seen). In the former cases I can certainly see ending it after the production is over (though Queensryche played two random songs). This just doesn't seem to have much of that theatricality.

[bosk1]

In the former cases I can certainly see ending it after the production is over (though Queensryche played two random songs).

And a bunch of songs beforehand (assuming you are talking about the Building Empires tour).  They played like half of Empire, and a couple of other songs as well (I think when I saw them in Raleigh, it was Walk In The Shadows and Roads To Madness).

[MirrorMask]

In 2006 they played Operation Mindcrime as first set, Operation Mindrcime II as second set, and then had usually a 2 songs encore. On the DVD that was made of the show they were Walk in the Shadows and Jet City Woman. I was lucky and I got three: Jet City Woman, Empire and Silent Lucidity (yes, as last song, it was awesome).

[El Barto]

In the former cases I can certainly see ending it after the production is over (though Queensryche played two random songs).

And a bunch of songs beforehand (assuming you are talking about the Building Empires tour).  They played like half of Empire, and a couple of other songs as well (I think when I saw them in Raleigh, it was Walk In The Shadows and Roads To Madness).

No, I'm talking about the OM2 tour. They had four or five actors on stage, each album with an intermission. When they wrapped up OM2 they left the stage to let everybody settle down (puke, beat their wives, wake up) and then came out to do [in my case] Walk in the Shadows and Jet City Woman.

edit: also known as what MirrorMask said.

[hefdaddy42]

An encore, by definition, is extra music, over and above the actual concert.  If you don't get an encore, you aren't being shorted anything, you still got the concert.  You just aren't getting anything extra.

DT has worked on this project for 2 years, and they decided that they would present it in its entirety, live, with this dedicated live presentation/videos/lighting/visuals.  Everything they have done to prepare this live concert tour is this album.  I understand completely why they wouldn't also want to throw out another unrelated song just to say they were doing it.

I understand completely that rock show convention is to have an encore, and why a general audience would expect one (or at least hope for one).  But DT has stated that there won't be one on this tour, so whining about it now seems a little petty.  I mean, you got over two hours of music, and you boo because you don't get that one extra song?  Come on.

[Clancy Wiggum]

An encore, by definition, is extra music, over and above the actual concert.  If you don't get an encore, you aren't being shorted anything, you still got the concert.  You just aren't getting anything extra.

DT has worked on this project for 2 years, and they decided that they would present it in its entirety, live, with this dedicated live presentation/videos/lighting/visuals.  Everything they have done to prepare this live concert tour is this album.  I understand completely why they wouldn't also want to throw out another unrelated song just to say they were doing it.

I understand completely that rock show convention is to have an encore, and why a general audience would expect one (or at least hope for one).  But DT has stated that there won't be one on this tour, so whining about it now seems a little petty.  I mean, you got over two hours of music, and you boo because you don't get that one extra song?  Come on.

A key question is how many people actually know that there won't be an encore for these shows?

We shouldn't forget that the knowledge of the folk here is likely considerably above that of your average DT fan, who may well not have known. I love them, this was my 4th gig (the last one being a meet & greet too) but don't follow everything they do and didn't know. For that reason I was disappointed. Given that the noise - I'd call it more groaning than booing - was coming from a lot of people at the end of the show that evidence at least points to that fact that many people didn't know what the deal was.

All that said, I couldn't justify booing a band that had just played something like TA right the way through. I really enjoyed the show.

[mike099]

DT should have played 'Never Enough' and announced there is your encore you ungrateful ass holes.

I am pumped to see my first DT concert.  It should be worth the 6 hour drive!

[ariich]

Thread resolved at tonight's gig:

Well, smart arse, they have actually made it VERY clear that the title track is the encore, by taking bows and leaving the stage after Our New World.

So there!

The encore thing - Richard and Kerry who run Voices UK were at both nights, and Kerry explained that she and Danielle Rudess (who was also there, and is a theatre director) had come up with a way to make the encore clear and bring the house lights up quickly, to avoid confusion and disappointment. Worked perfectly, everyone got it. And actually, in the live setting treating the title track as an epilogue/encore works brilliantly and made the pacing better in my opinion.

[erwinrafael]

Thread resolved at tonight's gig:

Well, smart arse, they have actually made it VERY clear that the title track is the encore, by taking bows and leaving the stage after Our New World.

So there!

The encore thing - Richard and Kerry who run Voices UK were at both nights, and Kerry explained that she and Danielle Rudess (who was also there, and is a theatre director) had come up with a way to make the encore clear and bring the house lights up quickly, to avoid confusion and disappointment. Worked perfectly, everyone got it. And actually, in the live setting treating the title track as an epilogue/encore works brilliantly and made the pacing better in my opinion.

That's good to hear. That's the best way to handle it, I think, if they would really stick to singing songs only from the album.

[genome]

They should play Our New World as the finale of the regular 2nd set, go off stage, play the NOMAC track Power Down, and come back on stage and perform Astonishing.

Pretty much exactly what they did tonight.

[hefdaddy42]

That's cool.

[ErHaO]

That is great! On paper this may seem minor, but a good and clear pacing can really enhance the overall perception of a show (especially when it is the finale). Also, now Our New World is the set closer, with The Astonishing forming a somewhat seperate epilouge featuring recurring themes, which will work really well for the show I think.

Thumbs up that they are this quick to improve on their show (as well as the sound, from what I have heard) 

[Mladen]

I'm surprised they went with that solution. And I'm even more surprised it's working. 

[Kotowboy]

I still think it's hilarious that what people want is the band to walk off the stage and then back on again before finishing the pre-arranged set.


Not leaving the stage after Our New World and coming back on for Astonishing = omg so gypped !

Leaving the stage after Our New World and coming back on for Astonishing = fuck yeah an encore !

[Enigmachine]

I still think it's hilarious that what people want is the band to walk off the stage and then back on again before finishing the pre-arranged set.


Not leaving the stage after Our New World and coming back on for Astonishing = omg so gypped !

Leaving the stage after Our New World and coming back on for Astonishing = fuck yeah an encore !

That's pretty stunning.  I wonder what the conversation was like for the band when they made that decision. To be fair, encores are so predictable anyway, might as well make it a song that is listed in the program.

[MirrorMask]

Bands should do a second encore, still pre-programmed, but that would take at least some people by surprise. Everyone knows you go away and then come back, they don't really expect you to come back a second time.

Anyway I agree with Kotowboy, it's funny how they play just the whole album but they make everyone happy just by fake-leaving before the last song 

At least it's not terribly forced, since Our New World works as a set / story closer, and Power Down works as an encore intro.

[ariich]

I wonder what the conversation was like for the band when they made that decision.

Like I said before, the decision was made after the first gig when they were chatting away backstage, and it was Danielle Rudess and Kerry from the fanclub who suggested this approach which the band was all for.

[SwedishGoose]

Bands should do a second encore, still pre-programmed, but that would take at least some people by surprise. Everyone knows you go away and then come back, they don't really expect you to come back a second time.

Anyway I agree with Kotowboy, it's funny how they play just the whole album but they make everyone happy just by fake-leaving before the last song 

At least it's not terribly forced, since Our New World works as a set / story closer, and Power Down works as an encore intro.

To make the fans really happy bands should walk of stage after each song...
Just imagine the joy: Fuck yeah... we got 33 encores

[gspdt]

Thread resolved at tonight's gig:

Well, smart arse, they have actually made it VERY clear that the title track is the encore, by taking bows and leaving the stage after Our New World.

So there!

The encore thing - Richard and Kerry who run Voices UK were at both nights, and Kerry explained that she and Danielle Rudess (who was also there, and is a theatre director) had come up with a way to make the encore clear and bring the house lights up quickly, to avoid confusion and disappointment. Worked perfectly, everyone got it. And actually, in the live setting treating the title track as an epilogue/encore works brilliantly and made the pacing better in my opinion.

This did make a difference and got rid of that confusion that we had on the first night. I can't believe all of the moaning that I have read on this forum about no encore etc.. Fans should embrace each gig / set on it's own merits without comparison - it's not often that you get to witness such a great band doing exactly what they want to do! That's why we love DT so much.

[PetFish]

I don't know why this is even a "thing" at all.  Most bands now barely play 90 minutes and we've always gotten 120+ with Dream Theater.

And quality > quantity (usually) so I'll take two hours of intense music over two hours of fluff any day.

I think Dream Theater has spoiled us (in a good way) over such a long and amazing career but I also think some perspective on what we're actually getting to experience this time around... The Astonishing.

Dream Theater has accomplished something wonderful here by going away from "the formula" of the last 10 years and really exploring something new and to that I say "BRAVO".

[7deg_inner_happiness]

I am looking forward to experience TA Live!  I feel fortunate, and it will be a unique event.

I for one am glad DT is "sticking to their guns", by not adding a non-TA song as an encore.  However, I do think it was a good decision by the band to tweak the pace of the finale.  It allows fans to give the band 2 separate standing ovations, as well as anticipate and bring closure to their concert experience.

[MirrorMask]

I for one am glad DT is "sticking to their guns", by not adding a non-TA song as an encore.  However, I do think it was a good decision by the band to tweak the pace of the finale.  It allows fans to give the band 2 separate standing ovations, as well as anticipate and bring closure to their concert experience.

I think in the end this is the real function of the encore routine. It's not "We're going away... no wait we're not, gotcha! bwhaha!", but rather letting everyone know the concert is about to end and to treasure those last moments and songs. Time flies when you're having fun so knowing that the next 2-3 songs are the last makes you realize better it's about to end.

Also, you get to have two openers and two closing songs in the setlist, which is helpful 

[Chino]

I still think it's hilarious that what people want is the band to walk off the stage and then back on again before finishing the pre-arranged set.

Not leaving the stage after Our New World and coming back on for Astonishing = omg so gypped !

Leaving the stage after Our New World and coming back on for Astonishing = fuck yeah an encore !

We're not stupid. We know it's pre-arranged. But there's an element of fun associated with an encore that, no matter how seemingly stupid to you, provides an incredible amount of added enjoyment for the fans. It's part of the show and the fun.

[Kotowboy]

I'm not saying an encore is stupid. I enjoy the facade too.

But complaining you didn't get an "encore" because they didn't leave the stage and come back is what i find funny.

[Chino]

I'm not saying an encore is stupid. I enjoy the facade too.

But complaining you didn't get an "encore" because they didn't leave the stage and come back is what i find funny.

I don't find what they're doing now to be any better than not having one. I'd still like a single powerful throwback track to end the night with.

[ResultsMayVary]

I'm not saying an encore is stupid. I enjoy the facade too.

But complaining you didn't get an "encore" because they didn't leave the stage and come back is what i find funny.

I don't find what they're doing now to be any better than not having one. I'd still like a single powerful throwback track to end the night with.

I doubt anyone here would disagree with that. I would love to see an encore with a older (read: classic) song or two. But the band decided not to do that on this tour in favor of playing the whole new album as a stand alone show. That's fine. I respect that. I'm just not going to get real upset over it. I have other parts of my life to stress me out and the last thing I need is to be stressed over the possibility of 15 extra minutes at a concert where DT is already playing 2 hours and 10 minutes plus.

[cramx3]

I made my opinion known in a few different threads, but I guess I will share it here too.

I think they should have done an encore.  The concert is slightly less in length than a typical evening with show.  There is time for one more song.  Some people have experienced higher ticket prices, I think they can justify this by doing an encore as I am not so sure the videos really make up for this difference.

I'm glad I know there won't be an encore so I won't be expecting it, but had I not known, I would have been very dissapointed when I left.  Encores are a staple for rock concerts, it just doesn't seem right to not do one.  I really hope as soon as TA is over, the house lights go on so people don't wait around.

[Tick]

I made my opinion known in a few different threads, but I guess I will share it here too.

I think they should have done an encore.  The concert is slightly less in length than a typical evening with show.  There is time for one more song.  Some people have experienced higher ticket prices, I think they can justify this by doing an encore as I am not so sure the videos really make up for this difference.

I'm glad I know there won't be an encore so I won't be expecting it, but had I not known, I would have been very dissapointed when I left.  Encores are a staple for rock concerts, it just doesn't seem right to not do one.  I really hope as soon as TA is over, the house lights go on so people don't wait around.

The encore is now the song Astonishing. They made an audible after night one.
Honestly, if you are getting over 2 hours of music you are not getting cheated. I always want more but I'm cool with 2+ hours of music from one of my all time favorite bands.

[cramx3]

I made my opinion known in a few different threads, but I guess I will share it here too.

I think they should have done an encore.  The concert is slightly less in length than a typical evening with show.  There is time for one more song.  Some people have experienced higher ticket prices, I think they can justify this by doing an encore as I am not so sure the videos really make up for this difference.

I'm glad I know there won't be an encore so I won't be expecting it, but had I not known, I would have been very dissapointed when I left.  Encores are a staple for rock concerts, it just doesn't seem right to not do one.  I really hope as soon as TA is over, the house lights go on so people don't wait around.

The encore is now the song Astonishing. They made an audible after night one.
Honestly, if you are getting over 2 hours of music you are not getting cheated. I always want more but I'm cool with 2+ hours of music from one of my all time favorite bands.

I wouldn't use the word "cheated" because that's not at all how I feel.  I just know they are capable of something more (they have played longer shows consistently).  If TA is the encore, and they treat it as the encore (as in wave good bye, leave stage, lights off, people chanting for more) then I think that is a good way to make things known and keep the show as only TA.  I think that works fine. 

[ariich]

Their last tour was only 10 minutes longer, it's barely noticeable. And TA has a higher vocal:instrumental ratio than their usual sets, so places more strain on JLB.

[JayOctavarium]

My thoughts:

I understand there is not an extra song played outside of the album front to back. I am ok with this. It IS billed as The Astonishing Live.

Would I like an extra song? Fuck yea!

Am I upset that there isn't one?

Nah bro.

[cramx3]

Their last tour was only 10 minutes longer, it's barely noticeable. And TA has a higher vocal:instrumental ratio than their usual sets, so places more strain on JLB.

Agreed.  The vocal thing is probably the biggest reason to be done with the show, it's a lot to ask from JLB.

[OleMP]

This has been blown out of proportion. The booing was lighthearted and meant as a joke.

How does one boo light-heartedly and jokingly?

You boo in a major key.

[ariich]

This has been blown out of proportion. The booing was lighthearted and meant as a joke.

How does one boo light-heartedly and jokingly?

You boo in a major key.

And then everyone complains about it being a ballad.

[bosk1]