Astonishing my first DT album....where next?

[Train of Naught]

Actually I think OP will really like In The Presence of Enemies a lot and I haven't seen it mentioned by anyone so far, it has James doing different types of voices like on TA, also the dark master chorus I feel has some of those theatrical vibes TA has. And of course the instrumentation on ITPOE is gorgeous.

[hefdaddy42]

My suggestion would actually be to avoid any live recordings until you familiarize yourself more with their music.

[BlobVanDam]

About Scenes from a Memory being their only other concept album aside from The Astonishing, I would like to make a correction...
There's a third one, it's the second disc of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. It has its own story, its own thematic development. It has a start, middle and end. In short 'concept'.

Your correction is incorrect twice over:
1.  Six Degrees is a song.  A song cannot be a concept album.
2.  One disk of a two disk album cannot be a concept album.

This post should be one of the forum rules.

I agree on live albums. I think it's always best to familiarize yourself with the studio versions first before appreciating the differences of the live version, rather than the other way around. That said, the live albums have helped get me into certain songs that weren't clicking with me at first.

[Heavens_Cove777]

If you want something similar to the thematic stuff that is The Astonishing then listen to Scenes From A Memory....but listen to the Metropolis part 1 with it because they go together. Another good one you might like is Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. It's a great album especially the second disc which is one 42 minute song. It's one of their best songs and albums. Here's my DT albums ranked.

1. Images and Words
2. The Astonishing
3. Scenes from a Memory
4. SDOIT
5. Octavarium
6. Systematic Chaos
7. A Dramatic Turn of Events
8. DT12
9. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
10. Train of Thought
11. Awake
12. Falling into Infinity
13. A change of seasons...but wait, I don't actually consider it an album. The title
Track is definitely one of their best. It's a 23 minute masterpiece.

[Disciple_Kickstand]

Did you mean Live Scenes From New York? I was going to suggest either Live at Budokan or Score, but LSFNY is good, too. Bill might not know that the DVD version of Live Scenes does NOT have the entire concert, but the CD version does.

I actually meant the DVD, but now that you mention it, I forgot some tracks appear only on the CD.

They really should re-release that live concert on DVD in its entirety.  I get there may have been some technical restraints in trying to get all that material on dvd at that point in time, but now with blue ray and everything it isn't s lrobkem at all having one disc with crazy amounts of content on it.

[Bill]

Thanks for the great response and the welcome. I am genuinely excited about the journey of discovery! I think I'll go with Images & Words next which seems to get a mention in many of your posts, but I can imagine spending much of 2016 working my way through the catalogue. Look forward to participating in the forum in the months to come, and once again thank you to all.

[jayvee3]

If you like the conceptual ideas and recurring themes, I would go for Scenes From a Memory. The Second disk of 6 degrees would be worthwhile too, but as a long-time fan, I personally find that song and the entire album a little overrated. I also think you may want to check out Awake. While it isn't a concept album, there are a few instances where certain melodies reappear, and it's a darker, but very cohesive album . 

[Progmetty]

About Scenes from a Memory being their only other concept album aside from The Astonishing, I would like to make a correction...
There's a third one, it's the second disc of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. It has its own story, its own thematic development. It has a start, middle and end. In short 'concept'.

Your correction is incorrect twice over:
1.  Six Degrees is a song.  A song cannot be a concept album.
2.  One disk of a two disk album cannot be a concept album.

This post should be one of the forum rules.

I tried to not comment on this but failed and I'm gonna go ahead and respectfully call B.S. on that point again Blob, you know my thoughts on the subject, but now with The Astonishing out can you tell me how it differs from the second disc of Six Degrees? The facts that Six Degrees came with another CD containing unrelated songs and that Six Degrees is only 40 minutes long have nothing to do with what we're talking about here IMO, these 40 minutes contain the same exact musical formula presented in those 120 minutes.
I maintain that SolidSnake's post wasn't wrong and that my thoughts on the subject don't matter in the great scheme of the universe as you like to point out whenever this comes up heh

[BlobVanDam]

About Scenes from a Memory being their only other concept album aside from The Astonishing, I would like to make a correction...
There's a third one, it's the second disc of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. It has its own story, its own thematic development. It has a start, middle and end. In short 'concept'.

Your correction is incorrect twice over:
1.  Six Degrees is a song.  A song cannot be a concept album.
2.  One disk of a two disk album cannot be a concept album.

This post should be one of the forum rules.

I tried to not comment on this but failed and I'm gonna go ahead and respectfully call B.S. on that point again Blob, you know my thoughts on the subject, but now with The Astonishing out can you tell me how it differs from the second disc of Six Degrees? The facts that Six Degrees came with another CD containing unrelated songs and that Six Degrees is only 40 minutes long have nothing to do with what we're talking about here IMO, these 40 minutes contain the same exact musical formula presented in those 120 minutes.
I maintain that SolidSnake's post wasn't wrong and that my thoughts on the subject don't matter in the great scheme of the universe as you like to point out whenever this comes up heh

He is already factually wrong for the reasons bosk has stated. TA doesn't even have any parts that flow together with one exception, so it's a non starter to begin with. They both have overtures, that's about it.

This is the reason Bill should just ignore DTF entirely and listen with a clean mind.

[ariich]

OK, so it's a concept song... It's a 8-song concept song that comes on its own disc, so it can be listened to separately from the other 5 (which I do most of the time).

Surely all songs are concept songs that can be listened to on their own?

[hefdaddy42]

I tried to not comment on this but failed and I'm gonna go ahead and respectfully call B.S. on that point again Blob, you know my thoughts on the subject, but now with The Astonishing out can you tell me how it differs from the second disc of Six Degrees?

The Astonishing is a rock opera.  It's a LOT different from the second disc of 6DOIT.  The Astonishing is not one song, it is 34 songs.  Six Degrees is one song divided into 8 tracks for ease of playback on a CD player. 

The facts that Six Degrees came with another CD containing unrelated songs and that Six Degrees is only 40 minutes long have nothing to do with what we're talking about here IMO, these 40 minutes contain the same exact musical formula presented in those 120 minutes.

No they don't.  They simply do not.  In any way.

[Outcrier]

Obviously they aren't rock operas, but Scenes and SDOIT Disk 2 are the closest things to it (overture/finale, recurring themes...) and that's why they were recommended to the newbie after all.

[ariich]

Obviously they aren't rock operas, but Scenes and SDOIT Disk 2 are the closest things to it (overture/finale, recurring themes...) and that's why they were recommended to the newbie after all.

I'm fairly sure they were being recommended because people love them and musically they are closest to TA. Not because of anything to do with being concept albums or not.

[KevShmev]

About Scenes from a Memory being their only other concept album aside from The Astonishing, I would like to make a correction...
There's a third one, it's the second disc of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. It has its own story, its own thematic development. It has a start, middle and end. In short 'concept'.

Your correction is incorrect twice over:
1.  Six Degrees is a song.  A song cannot be a concept album.
2.  One disk of a two disk album cannot be a concept album.

This post should be one of the forum rules.

I tried to not comment on this but failed and I'm gonna go ahead and respectfully call B.S. on that point again Blob, you know my thoughts on the subject, but now with The Astonishing out can you tell me how it differs from the second disc of Six Degrees? The facts that Six Degrees came with another CD containing unrelated songs and that Six Degrees is only 40 minutes long have nothing to do with what we're talking about here IMO, these 40 minutes contain the same exact musical formula presented in those 120 minutes.
I maintain that SolidSnake's post wasn't wrong and that my thoughts on the subject don't matter in the great scheme of the universe as you like to point out whenever this comes up heh

Yes, it was. 6DOIT is not a concept album (or rock opera, or thematic record) by any stretch of the imagination.

[red barchetta]

I am a complete DT newbie. The Astonishingly is my first DT album and has completely blown me away. Never heard anything like it before, I've taken the time to read the story and follow the lyrics, and wow! The musicianship is amazing and what I really love about it is that despite its length, it is accessible with loads of memorable and catchy stuff throughout. Can't stop playing it.

I come from the melodic side of rock/prog...earlier Genesis, Marrillion, Jethro Tull, Spocks Beard, Pendragon. I get the impression that The Astonishing is a one off, a rock opera/ musical theater thing. I'm a sucker for a good melody/power ballad, but also love raw rock power.

Which album should be my second purchase? Btw, can't believe I have missed this band for so many years, really excited to discover more!

Welcome to DT world.  I discover the band 7 years ago and got in love with their music with the album Scenes from a memory.  Since then I have seen them 4 times and bought all their stuff.  But I don't like The Astonishing and won't buy it nor go to the concert in Montreal.  But there is a lot of great music from them and I'm not talking about ballads only.

[Outcrier]

Obviously they aren't rock operas, but Scenes and SDOIT Disk 2 are the closest things to it (overture/finale, recurring themes...) and that's why they were recommended to the newbie after all.

I'm fairly sure they were being recommended because people love them and musically they are closest to TA. Not because of anything to do with being concept albums or not.

That's what i said.

[Disciple_Kickstand]

Thanks for the great response and the welcome. I am genuinely excited about the journey of discovery! I think I'll go with Images & Words next which seems to get a mention in many of your posts, but I can imagine spending much of 2016 working my way through the catalogue. Look forward to participating in the forum in the months to come, and once again thank you to all.

Can't fault you for that choice. I&W is flat out awesome, enjoy!

[darkshade]

About Scenes from a Memory being their only other concept album aside from The Astonishing, I would like to make a correction...
There's a third one, it's the second disc of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. It has its own story, its own thematic development. It has a start, middle and end. In short 'concept'.

Your correction is incorrect twice over:
1.  Six Degrees is a song.  A song cannot be a concept album.
2.  One disk of a two disk album cannot be a concept album.

This post should be one of the forum rules.

I tried to not comment on this but failed and I'm gonna go ahead and respectfully call B.S. on that point again Blob, you know my thoughts on the subject, but now with The Astonishing out can you tell me how it differs from the second disc of Six Degrees? The facts that Six Degrees came with another CD containing unrelated songs and that Six Degrees is only 40 minutes long have nothing to do with what we're talking about here IMO, these 40 minutes contain the same exact musical formula presented in those 120 minutes.
I maintain that SolidSnake's post wasn't wrong and that my thoughts on the subject don't matter in the great scheme of the universe as you like to point out whenever this comes up heh

Yes, it was. 6DOIT is not a concept album (or rock opera, or thematic record) by any stretch of the imagination.

If you stretch the imagination enough, you can call 6DOIT part of the meta-album grand concept, along with being connected by the 12 Step Suite, itself a concept within a concept. So really Scenes through Octavarium is one big concept album, divided into 5 discs.

Also, it has 6 tracks brah 

[Dublagent66]

Astonishing my first DT album....where next?

Good place to start.  You have nowhere else to go but up from here.

Do you come onto the forum just to hate onto the album in every single post? 

No, I don't recall saying that I hate anything in this forum.  I wouldn't confuse hate with extreme disappointment but it's pretty close, carrying over from the previous album also.  Their latest material is not the DT I once knew.

Astonishing my first DT album....where next?

Good place to start.  You have nowhere else to go but up from here.

You think The Astonishing was worse than Systematic Chaos?

Worse would be implying that SC is a bad album.  I liked SC and still do.  With the exception of PoW, SC was a very good album and still is.  It clearly identified what DT represents.  Progressive Metal.  The songs were good.  TA sounds like DT trying to be someone else.  Even the songs have no real identity.  They are just a part of the collective.  Not all of the 34 tracks can even be considered "songs" in any sense of the word.  If given a choice between SC and TA, I'll take SC every time.

[Scorpion]

You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm not the biggest fan of TA myself, but I'd nevertheless be curious as to why you think that none of the 34 tracks are actually songs.

I actually find that some of the songs are a lot stronger when taken on their own then when regarded as part of the whole - mainly because I find TA to be too long, so listening to a song like Our New World at the end of a two hour album is kind of a chore, but also because I find the story to be pretty weak and uninteresting.

[Enigmachine]

TA sounds like DT trying to be someone else.

I think they retain their sound quite well, while tastefully integrating other influences. It doesn't seem like any sort of identity crisis.

Even the songs have no real identity.

Lord Nafaryus' tango? The insanity of Three Days? A Life Left Behind's ballad / jazzy prog rock hybrid? I could just list all the songs but come on, the songs are very distinctive even if you aren't fond of them.

[SebastianPratesi]

If you stretch the imagination enough, you can call 6DOIT part of the meta-album grand concept, along with being connected by the 12 Step Suite, itself a concept within a concept. So really Scenes through Octavarium is one big concept album, divided into 5 discs.

Also, it has 6 tracks brah 

Holy crap - an album ("6DOIT" ) inside an album (6DOIT) inside an album (Scenes - Octavarium)!

Your post got me to thinking about this sort of discussions: if the band were to compile "The Glass Prison", "This Dying Soul", etc. - would we be calling it:

• A suite (like it's usually referred to) consisting of 5 movements?
• A song consisting of 12 movements?
• An album consisting of 5 songs?

[BlobVanDam]

Even the songs have no real identity.

Lord Nafaryus' tango? The insanity of Three Days? A Life Left Behind's ballad / jazzy prog rock hybrid? I could just list all the songs but come on, the songs are very distinctive even if you aren't fond of them.

I kind of agree with both of you here. There are a lot of songs that sound very unique, which is why I'm still drawn to those songs. But with 34 tracks, I feel there are also many tracks that feel similar and don't have a strong identity of their own. Given the style of the album, that's not necessarily bad, just that a decent percentage of the album doesn't stick out to me, and I get where that opinion comes from.

[KevShmev]

.  TA sounds like DT trying to be someone else.  Even the songs have no real identity.  They are just a part of the collective.  Not all of the 34 tracks can even be considered "songs" in any sense of the word.

What?

[BlobVanDam]

The only tracks on TA I don't consider songs are obviously the NOMAC tracks. That aside, I don't understand that opinion. Even the sub 2 minute tracks feel cohesive and self contained.

[TeacherBanks]

In this order;

-Images and Words
-Live at Budokan
-Scenes From a Memory
-SCORE
-Awake
-Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

Chino is on to something here...  If you get some of the live albums you will get a smattering of all of it.  I am kind of doing the same thing myself, though farther along.  I definitely think Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence should be on your list as well.

I'm really getting into the Awake and Falling to Infinity albums right now.  When you get each album, it's like Christmas.  i find it takes me quite a will to digest it all.  Sometimes I can listen to a DT song 4-5 times before something in it really grabs me.  DT is really cerebral and certain themes or musical patterns aren't picked up at the first hearing.

You have lots of great stuff to explore.  I have attempted making my first "best of" list and I keep finding tunes that have to go in it. I'm up to 21 so far! 

Welcome to the struggle 

[Thierry]

My suggestion would actually be to avoid any live recordings until you familiarize yourself more with their music.

Disagreeing on that. I've found Dream Theater after listening to some bootlegs. I wasn't familiar with their albums at all. I still haven't listened to the first 3 albums  . I'm more into live music anyway.

[kirksnosehair]

If you're blown away by "The Astonishing" then I'd probably suggest you try the other conceptual pieces they've released like "Metropolis Part 2: Scenes From a Memory" or "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence."


Just be aware, though, that "The Astonishing" is a bit softer than most of Dream Theater's catalog. 


Enjoy the ride 

[Dublagent66]

.  TA sounds like DT trying to be someone else.  Even the songs have no real identity.  They are just a part of the collective.  Not all of the 34 tracks can even be considered "songs" in any sense of the word.

What?

Even the songs have no real identity.

Lord Nafaryus' tango? The insanity of Three Days? A Life Left Behind's ballad / jazzy prog rock hybrid? I could just list all the songs but come on, the songs are very distinctive even if you aren't fond of them.

I kind of agree with both of you here. There are a lot of songs that sound very unique, which is why I'm still drawn to those songs. But with 34 tracks, I feel there are also many tracks that feel similar and don't have a strong identity of their own. Given the style of the album, that's not necessarily bad, just that a decent percentage of the album doesn't stick out to me, and I get where that opinion comes from.

[Bill]

In this order;

-Images and Words
-Live at Budokan
-Scenes From a Memory
-SCORE
-Awake
-Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

Chino is on to something here...  If you get some of the live albums you will get a smattering of all of it.  I am kind of doing the same thing myself, though farther along.  I definitely think Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence should be on your list as well.

I'm really getting into the Awake and Falling to Infinity albums right now.  When you get each album, it's like Christmas.  i find it takes me quite a will to digest it all.  Sometimes I can listen to a DT song 4-5 times before something in it really grabs me.  DT is really cerebral and certain themes or musical patterns aren't picked up at the first hearing.

You have lots of great stuff to explore.  I have attempted making my first "best of" list and I keep finding tunes that have to go in it. I'm up to 21 so far! 

Welcome to the struggle 

I am definitely up for taking my time with the music and studying the material as I discover it. Like many things in life, if the attraction is instant, then it's probably shallow and you'll grow bored! That said, just because something is complicated doesn't necessarily mean it is good, although with the quality of these guys, I suspect a lot of it is really excellent. I have listened through Images and Words a couple of times now, thanks to the advice I've reveived here. A lot heavier in places than TA and I don't mind that, and some of it is mind blowing, like jaw dropping brilliant musicianship. Someone said these guys take it to a whole new level and I know what they mean. As a lifelong guitar player of limited ability I need to keep my jealousy in check and just revel in its brilliance!

[bosk1]

Your post got me to thinking about this sort of discussions: if the band were to compile "The Glass Prison", "This Dying Soul", etc. - would we be calling it:

• A suite (like it's usually referred to) consisting of 5 movements?
• A song consisting of 12 movements?
• An album consisting of 5 songs?

No need to speculate, as the band already refers to it as the "12-Step Suite."  And since it is a collection of related songs, it fits the definition of a "suite."  If they were to compile all of them and release them on an album, then it would also obviously be considered an "album" as well--an album that contains a suite.  But it still would not be a "song" because it would be comprised of separate songs.

[Architeuthis]

I'm surprised Octavarium hasn't been mentioned more here. The title track alone is worth the price of the cd. The rest of the album is brilliant too!
Systematic Chaos is great too but darker and heavier. All their albums are strong in one way or another.
Welcome to DT forums. I find it impressive that TA is your first DT album and got you into them. That tells me you are very musically inclined and have a good attention span.

[Dream Team]

Thanks for the great response and the welcome. I am genuinely excited about the journey of discovery! I think I'll go with Images & Words next which seems to get a mention in many of your posts, but I can imagine spending much of 2016 working my way through the catalogue. Look forward to participating in the forum in the months to come, and once again thank you to all.

I see you've given I&W a couple listens. Whenever you have time, please post your thoughts on each album/fave tracks; we love hearing new listeners' feedback!

[SebastianPratesi]

No need to speculate, as the band already refers to it as the "12-Step Suite."  And since it is a collection of related songs, it fits the definition of a "suite."  If they were to compile all of them and release them on an album, then it would also obviously be considered an "album" as well--an album that contains a suite.  But it still would not be a "song" because it would be comprised of separate songs.

Oh, sorry, I didn't know so. I always thought that was how fans/journalism referred to it. I guess Mike has talked about it in some interviews, then.

[BlobVanDam]

No need to speculate, as the band already refers to it as the "12-Step Suite."  And since it is a collection of related songs, it fits the definition of a "suite."  If they were to compile all of them and release them on an album, then it would also obviously be considered an "album" as well--an album that contains a suite.  But it still would not be a "song" because it would be comprised of separate songs.

Oh, sorry, I didn't know so. I always thought that was how fans/journalism referred to it. I guess Mike has talked about it in some interviews, then.

We mostly referred to it as the AA saga until MP gave the proper name.